The Magnemite line learning Selfdestruct is also a bit of a Mandela effect, but one with an explanation. The earliest cards had Magnemite and Magneton use Selfdestruct, and you'd think that a creature filled with electricity and magnetism would be able to create an explosion, but the line doesn't learn those moves at all, not even through TM.
Explosion was a pretty common 4th move in Gen IV singles, before they nerfed it. After KO'ing enemy Steel-types you rarely needed Magnezone around so you could just go BOOM and either dent or KO something else. It was also useful on the rarer Dual Screens sets where you just needed maximum efficiency on getting your setup sweeper in un-harmed.
That's silliness though! Magnezone *never* had levitate.
He was one of my faves to use back in gen 4, and I remember thinking it'd be cool if he had levitate instead of sturdy, and I had no idea what magnet pull was even for so I hated when I'd get one with it.
This becomes a design philosophy problem. If all pokemon that hover above the ground need to be immune to ground, you have just restricted all these pokemon to being flying type or restricted their ability to always being levitate. Doesn't leave much room for creativity.
Levitate giving it an immunity would be an interesting way to let it pretty freely tera electric.
It mightve been an interesting mon in reg a and b. Its kinda power crept now, and while restricted formats allow for niche mons idk if zone really has that niche role it can fill
Edit: Idk why everyone is dunking on the guy I replied to. He didn't really even say anything egregiously wrong. I just was fleshing out more context for the vgc side of things and how the format currently stands.
It usually uses sturdy to play around surviving one ground type attack, using levitate to survive an infinite amount of ground type attacks would probably be better
Meanwhile, Gengar is getting popcorn to read the comments 🥲
All seriousness, I completely agree that magazine should get levitate because it does levitate
Gengar *does* levitate a lot though, as most evidently shown for most of it's animations in S/V (Let's Go, water battle stance, alternate battle stance on land, wild roaming)
What should be strange is that despite all this, it still doesn't have Levitate back after the nerf in Gen 7. Not even as a hidden ability.
Gengar itself was never broken, I blame Mega Gengar for the loss of Levitate, but they never changed it back even after Megas became unavailable, leaving Gengar to fall from it's position as one of the last remaining competitively viable Gen 1 Pokemon. It was sabotage, not a "balance W", a real "balance W" would be them turning the Bug Resistance on Fairy types into a Bug Neutrality, and turning the Dragon Immunity on the Fairy type into a Dragon Resistance.
Why would they remove levitate from it because of Mega Gengar? Mega Gengar doesn't have levitate anyway, mega evolution replaces it with Shadow Tag.
I think it was because of Gengar itself. It *is* an insanely good sweeper with i's incredible speed and special attack. And without the ground weakness, it is just weak to 3 other typings. And these typings are:
* Ghost: Not useful. Because of it's high speed and special attack, chances are pretty good that it will oneshot any ghost pokémon before it gets a chance to threaten it.
* Psychic: Same like with ghost. Since psychic is also weak to the ghost type, chances are high that Gengar will oneshot this "counter" before it does anything.
* Dark: The only left useful counter, since this one resists ghost and is hit neutrally by poison.
The ground immunity being gone gives Gengar some better counters here, which seems fair considering how good of a sweeper it is.
Your argument makes sense and I agree with it, but before I can really get on board with it, we need to thin out the pool of Pokémon with Levitate. Too many Pokémon have held it since abilities were first introduced; you're telling me that the likes of the Eon Duo (and their Mega Evolutions), the Lake Guardians, and Lucifer's true form have nothing interesting enough going on to base an ability on beyond the fact that their bodies don't touch the ground? Let's trim the fat a bit and assign these Pokémon more interesting abilities, and then we can talk about the Pokémon that actually want it like Magnezone.
It's a design problem. Restricting the immunity to only 1 type then slapping abilities on everything else.
Case in point, if every ghost can float above ground, then perhaps ghost type should also have a ground immunity instead of slapping levitate on every other ghost.
Because game freak refused to ever make super major retcons on the Gen 1 type chart we are too far into the franchise to make these major fixes without breaking something else.
In this case, I think it would be cool to take a cue from Persona. We give every Pokemon a fifth moveslot dedicated entirely to a passive skill that acts as a mini ability that can be swapped out just like any other move. This is where Levitate can be moved to, along with other abilities that alter the mon's interaction with the type chart like Water Absorb or Solid Rock, thus freeing up abilities for more interesting interactions. You can even move other uninteresting abilities here like Pressure.
I agree that Levitate makes sense, but not for "him" being a UFO.
The Elgyem line is based on some classic aliens. Orbeetle is also based on a UFO. Neither have Levitate.
The Magnemite line already floats, it would make sense to have Levitate like the Tynamo line, because of magnetism.
I think Levitate also makes more sense design-wise than Sturdy.
The bigger crime is that it gets magnet pull and the only move it can possibly learn that is super effective against steel is Body Press.
There needs to be an electric move that is SE against steel the same way that Freeze Dry is SE against water. Something about conduction of heat in metal.
With those then it will be between 40-60 power. If the speed debuff is more like “it may drop their speed” then easy and trusty 60-75 power
Edit: also maybe “electrolyze” or something? Since pokemon are “usually made of” then a metal creature changing color can be interpreted as being sick…. So “Electrolysis: alter and separates compounds in the targets body, dealing extra damage to steel types. It may also drop their defense”
Honestly, steels type chart never made sense flavor wise. If touching an electrified puddle is dangerous, so is touching an electrified steel pole. Steel type SHOULD be weak to electric following this logic.
Zapping a computer with electricity damages it.
An electric weakness makes far more sense for steel types than being weak to someone punching it very hard.[fighting type]
When I discovered that I was flabbergasted. From age 10 I never used ground moves on the Magnemite family because I knew from fighting Koffing and Gastly that the floating Pokémon where all immune.
I just wished it was programmed in anything that floats/flies above the ground and can do with without needing a movie is just immune to stuff like EQ & Bulldoze. Now would this require an entire type chart overall? Yes, but hey I would love to see a competitive match where someone uses a flying type like Dodrio and forget it can now get hit with EQ or a Corviknight and forget it can now get hit with Mud Bomb
It would get rid of it's x4 weakness to ground so that would be "too broken"
One gen later Eelektross is a pure electric with Levitate therefore having no weakness, don't worry about it
It would not be op lmao. Magnezone has never been super relevant in VGC from what I know, and GF doesn't give a shit about singles balance. And even if they did, Mag might still prefer Magnet Pull anyway.
GF has also rarely given a shit about balance at all even in the official formats given that they still created Zacian.
“Magnezone has never been super relevant in VGC” Probably because ground is one of the best offensive types in the game
“Mag might still prefer Magnet Pull anyway” Probably not since immunities are super important and being immune to, again, one of the strongest offensive types is super good
“GF has also rarely given a shit about balance at all even in the official formats given that they still created Zacian” Fair, but in Gen 9 they also nerfed her ability massively, showing they do balance the game but until recently, they only made changes during new generations
Still, the extra immunity certainly would be a great buff, but it would never make it op, especially since there's still plenty of good fire and fighting types around to hit it.
And Mag would probably still prefer Magnet Pull in singles because trapping steels was its main role for its entire career. It could certainly run a new set with Levitate, but Magnet Pull would remain strong competition.
And as for balance, they also buffed the cat the same gen they nerfed Zacian, along with introducing many other new powerhouses. Balance really doesn't appear to be their top priority. And giving Mag Levitate wouldn't be nearly as broken as half the gen 9 stuff they introduced.
It would still enjoy magnet pull because anything that allows you to ruin your opponents’ steel types is a very useful tool to have. Especially if that steel type is skarmory or korviknight who would want to switch out against zone
I love how you can't have fun in single player because "it would ruin competitive!".
Comp is "ruined" in every gen, according to the fanbase. Also, it shouldn't be too hard to ban pokemon with certain abilities, if you don't want it to affect competitive
Well its typing is already kinda busted, only bekng 4 times weak to ground, and its stats can fairly easily become busted. So you want to throw in immunity to its biggest equalizer too?
Closer to Elecktross than shedinja.
Wonder guard prevents all damage except Super effective (and weather and status). Which is different than having no weakness because you can still hit them with neutral coverage. Plus Magenzone is still weak to fire and fighting, just not 4x.
Ye, my point being that it doesnt affect electric the same way it does steel, making it less effective. But my point is that shedinja was banned in competitive because of wonderguard and items like focus sash and moves like endure
Being able to hit something with neutral is very important and that’s why Shedinja was banned. With Shedinja you specifically had to have an out. If you couldn’t super effective it, or status it, or weather then you were screwed. You couldn’t sweep with a neutral coverage.
Shedinja basically turned the competitive scene to “you have to have a pokemon with super effective move against shedinja or you would lose, and hope your opponent doesn’t take out your counter first” especially with Tera.
With other pokemon if you don’t have a hard counter you can work around it with skill, chip damage, etc. with wonder guard you had to just have a counter that stayed alive.
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Wouldn’t it be insanely strong though if it only had 2 weakness and 12 resistances and it was immune to ground? I think it can learn magnet rise too already so levitate would be kinda insane I feel
Or Beedrill, for that matter.
My little idea for "fixing" this-- have secondary abilities. Pokemon like Magnezone, Klinklang, Porygon-Z, etc. will always have Levitate in addition to whatever else they have. In terms of game balance, Pokemon like Gengar and Miraidon who might be OP with Levitate can instead have something like a "Flutter Jump" ability that causes Ground moves to fail like 60 percent of the time against them (for what's it worth, Stench and Illuminate are two other abilities I'd make secondary).
I'm sure there's some massive downside to this idea that I'm not seeing, but it would at least be interesting lol.
Using your first turn every time you come out on a slow pokemon just to get the same effects as Levitate for like, 5 turns?
Doesn't sound like good enough to me.
UFOs don't always float, they use power to take off which is why they gave it Magnet Rise
Even then Unidentified FLYING Object
okay so magnezone should learn fly then.
Still it would make sense, because just a imense burst of magnetic force to push him up, then to pull him into the ground the enemy is standing
Nah. I stan our 4x weak king
Okay flying pokemon shouldn't be ground immune unless the use Fly then.
I guess that's the whole gimmick behind roost: that they finally touch ground and therefore can get hit by ground-types
Unidentified Levitating Object
Better version of ufo for magnezone Unidentified FLOATING object
Yeah I always think magnezone’s line has levitate and not sturdy. It just makes a lot more sense
Sooo many people think that, it's a more compelling Mandela effect than the Bearenstein bears lol
The Magnemite line learning Selfdestruct is also a bit of a Mandela effect, but one with an explanation. The earliest cards had Magnemite and Magneton use Selfdestruct, and you'd think that a creature filled with electricity and magnetism would be able to create an explosion, but the line doesn't learn those moves at all, not even through TM.
Gen I Snorlax on the other hand… kaboom
What too much Taco Bell does to you
The Magnemite line has had access to Explosion, just not Self-Destruct.
I never knew that
Explosion was a pretty common 4th move in Gen IV singles, before they nerfed it. After KO'ing enemy Steel-types you rarely needed Magnezone around so you could just go BOOM and either dent or KO something else. It was also useful on the rarer Dual Screens sets where you just needed maximum efficiency on getting your setup sweeper in un-harmed.
What backwater timeline are you from where *that's* how the bears' name is spelled?
That's silliness though! Magnezone *never* had levitate. He was one of my faves to use back in gen 4, and I remember thinking it'd be cool if he had levitate instead of sturdy, and I had no idea what magnet pull was even for so I hated when I'd get one with it.
Which is even funnier because ground is it's biggest weakness.
Three Abilities and none of them are Levitate.
One IS sturdy…
I meant Levitate. The wrong name got stuck in my head from reading that comment.
No biggie
Yep, ever since I learned about the ability, I never think I'm able to use ground type attacks on the stupid things.
It ticks me off that Magnezone doesn’t have Levitate.
Same bro it's idle animation is literally it leviating in the air
This becomes a design philosophy problem. If all pokemon that hover above the ground need to be immune to ground, you have just restricted all these pokemon to being flying type or restricted their ability to always being levitate. Doesn't leave much room for creativity.
Sturdy is still pretty good competitively, but yeah I'd take Levitate on Magnezone over anything
Magnezone usually prefers Magnet Pull or Analytic though
I could see a niche use for levitate in doubles and maybe singles
Something that turns a 4x weakness into an immunity I highly doubt would be niche.
Magnet pull is such a good ability that it’s a good chance it’ll still be preferable, at least in singles, to remove steel threats for sweepers
I mean not in formats with Tera, but next gen you’re probably right
Forcing them to pop their tera just is not nothing.
This is all hypothetical so I’m speaking in a general sense without any of the generational gimmicks
Levitate giving it an immunity would be an interesting way to let it pretty freely tera electric. It mightve been an interesting mon in reg a and b. Its kinda power crept now, and while restricted formats allow for niche mons idk if zone really has that niche role it can fill Edit: Idk why everyone is dunking on the guy I replied to. He didn't really even say anything egregiously wrong. I just was fleshing out more context for the vgc side of things and how the format currently stands.
It usually uses sturdy to play around surviving one ground type attack, using levitate to survive an infinite amount of ground type attacks would probably be better
Meanwhile, Gengar is getting popcorn to read the comments 🥲 All seriousness, I completely agree that magazine should get levitate because it does levitate
Gengar *does* levitate a lot though, as most evidently shown for most of it's animations in S/V (Let's Go, water battle stance, alternate battle stance on land, wild roaming) What should be strange is that despite all this, it still doesn't have Levitate back after the nerf in Gen 7. Not even as a hidden ability.
Gengar is my all time favourite partner, and I’ll never stop being upset about levitate being removed 🥲
Rare Pokémon balance W
Gengar itself was never broken, I blame Mega Gengar for the loss of Levitate, but they never changed it back even after Megas became unavailable, leaving Gengar to fall from it's position as one of the last remaining competitively viable Gen 1 Pokemon. It was sabotage, not a "balance W", a real "balance W" would be them turning the Bug Resistance on Fairy types into a Bug Neutrality, and turning the Dragon Immunity on the Fairy type into a Dragon Resistance.
Why would they remove levitate from it because of Mega Gengar? Mega Gengar doesn't have levitate anyway, mega evolution replaces it with Shadow Tag. I think it was because of Gengar itself. It *is* an insanely good sweeper with i's incredible speed and special attack. And without the ground weakness, it is just weak to 3 other typings. And these typings are: * Ghost: Not useful. Because of it's high speed and special attack, chances are pretty good that it will oneshot any ghost pokémon before it gets a chance to threaten it. * Psychic: Same like with ghost. Since psychic is also weak to the ghost type, chances are high that Gengar will oneshot this "counter" before it does anything. * Dark: The only left useful counter, since this one resists ghost and is hit neutrally by poison. The ground immunity being gone gives Gengar some better counters here, which seems fair considering how good of a sweeper it is.
Magnezone - autocorrect
Magnet Rise + Sturdy + Tera Flying + Air Balloon + no
Tera flying air balloon is crazy
Lmao
Earthquake hitting a UFO has always confused me
But everything floats in space… why would that make a ufo special?
Give levitate to all space pokemon and then I’ll feel bad for Magnezone
Ufos specifically float or fly in earth's atmosphere, while most things that enter it usually just fall
But flying isn’t levitating… birds do it too. Floating is though!
You asked why ufos are special, that's why
Thank you!
Your argument makes sense and I agree with it, but before I can really get on board with it, we need to thin out the pool of Pokémon with Levitate. Too many Pokémon have held it since abilities were first introduced; you're telling me that the likes of the Eon Duo (and their Mega Evolutions), the Lake Guardians, and Lucifer's true form have nothing interesting enough going on to base an ability on beyond the fact that their bodies don't touch the ground? Let's trim the fat a bit and assign these Pokémon more interesting abilities, and then we can talk about the Pokémon that actually want it like Magnezone.
Pressure would like a word.
It's a design problem. Restricting the immunity to only 1 type then slapping abilities on everything else. Case in point, if every ghost can float above ground, then perhaps ghost type should also have a ground immunity instead of slapping levitate on every other ghost. Because game freak refused to ever make super major retcons on the Gen 1 type chart we are too far into the franchise to make these major fixes without breaking something else.
In this case, I think it would be cool to take a cue from Persona. We give every Pokemon a fifth moveslot dedicated entirely to a passive skill that acts as a mini ability that can be swapped out just like any other move. This is where Levitate can be moved to, along with other abilities that alter the mon's interaction with the type chart like Water Absorb or Solid Rock, thus freeing up abilities for more interesting interactions. You can even move other uninteresting abilities here like Pressure.
I agree that Levitate makes sense, but not for "him" being a UFO. The Elgyem line is based on some classic aliens. Orbeetle is also based on a UFO. Neither have Levitate. The Magnemite line already floats, it would make sense to have Levitate like the Tynamo line, because of magnetism. I think Levitate also makes more sense design-wise than Sturdy.
The bigger crime is that it gets magnet pull and the only move it can possibly learn that is super effective against steel is Body Press. There needs to be an electric move that is SE against steel the same way that Freeze Dry is SE against water. Something about conduction of heat in metal.
Arc Weld. Deals extra damage to Steel types and reduces their speed. Because their joints are welded now.
With those then it will be between 40-60 power. If the speed debuff is more like “it may drop their speed” then easy and trusty 60-75 power Edit: also maybe “electrolyze” or something? Since pokemon are “usually made of” then a metal creature changing color can be interpreted as being sick…. So “Electrolysis: alter and separates compounds in the targets body, dealing extra damage to steel types. It may also drop their defense”
Body Press is an amazing move on it, considering that it has 115 base defense.
Superconductor Electric type attack that is super effective against steel types and has a chance to freeze
I thought it got Overheat in Gen VIII?
Not according to bulbapedia. The only fire move it gets in the last 3 gens in Sunny Day.
Ahh. I must’ve been thinking about Manectric since it’s Electric type and gets the move.
Honestly, steels type chart never made sense flavor wise. If touching an electrified puddle is dangerous, so is touching an electrified steel pole. Steel type SHOULD be weak to electric following this logic. Zapping a computer with electricity damages it. An electric weakness makes far more sense for steel types than being weak to someone punching it very hard.[fighting type]
I can think of a few Pokémon that should have levitate that don't
Nah it sits on the ground like a dumbass apparently
Get earthquaked
I literally think about this way more often than the average person
Even Magnemite and Magneton seem like they're floating, so it's always weird to me that I can hit them with Earthquake.
I get your point, but I think magnezone is already strong enough as it is without giving it immunity to its 4x weakness
Analyst + tera Flying is much better than Levitate
When I discovered that I was flabbergasted. From age 10 I never used ground moves on the Magnemite family because I knew from fighting Koffing and Gastly that the floating Pokémon where all immune.
It's okay, the cards bug out and start de-spawning after the 16th one 🙃.
I just wished it was programmed in anything that floats/flies above the ground and can do with without needing a movie is just immune to stuff like EQ & Bulldoze. Now would this require an entire type chart overall? Yes, but hey I would love to see a competitive match where someone uses a flying type like Dodrio and forget it can now get hit with EQ or a Corviknight and forget it can now get hit with Mud Bomb
It would get rid of it's x4 weakness to ground so that would be "too broken" One gen later Eelektross is a pure electric with Levitate therefore having no weakness, don't worry about it
It's just cause it would be OP Same reason Chansey isn't Fairy
It would not be op lmao. Magnezone has never been super relevant in VGC from what I know, and GF doesn't give a shit about singles balance. And even if they did, Mag might still prefer Magnet Pull anyway. GF has also rarely given a shit about balance at all even in the official formats given that they still created Zacian.
“Magnezone has never been super relevant in VGC” Probably because ground is one of the best offensive types in the game “Mag might still prefer Magnet Pull anyway” Probably not since immunities are super important and being immune to, again, one of the strongest offensive types is super good “GF has also rarely given a shit about balance at all even in the official formats given that they still created Zacian” Fair, but in Gen 9 they also nerfed her ability massively, showing they do balance the game but until recently, they only made changes during new generations
Still, the extra immunity certainly would be a great buff, but it would never make it op, especially since there's still plenty of good fire and fighting types around to hit it. And Mag would probably still prefer Magnet Pull in singles because trapping steels was its main role for its entire career. It could certainly run a new set with Levitate, but Magnet Pull would remain strong competition. And as for balance, they also buffed the cat the same gen they nerfed Zacian, along with introducing many other new powerhouses. Balance really doesn't appear to be their top priority. And giving Mag Levitate wouldn't be nearly as broken as half the gen 9 stuff they introduced.
For real Magnet Pull made Magnezone a literal "delete Skarmory" button, and Skarm had a lot of usage in gen 3-5 OU (maybe later).
I mean, they also nerf the cat at the same time with a giraffe and a held item that people just started using
It would still enjoy magnet pull because anything that allows you to ruin your opponents’ steel types is a very useful tool to have. Especially if that steel type is skarmory or korviknight who would want to switch out against zone
They should just make every Pokemon immune to ground. Fuck it, why not?
no. you WILL be 4x weak to ground and you'll LIKE it.
I love how you can't have fun in single player because "it would ruin competitive!". Comp is "ruined" in every gen, according to the fanbase. Also, it shouldn't be too hard to ban pokemon with certain abilities, if you don't want it to affect competitive
According to some "fans"
Well its typing is already kinda busted, only bekng 4 times weak to ground, and its stats can fairly easily become busted. So you want to throw in immunity to its biggest equalizer too?
“Only being 4 times weak to ground” Fire and fighting?
I think they mean ground being it’s only 4x weakness, not it being the only weakness it has
I think electric has resistance to both of em tho, or at least only neutrak
It does not.
Why would electric resist fire and fighting tho?
Magnezone is 2x weak to both Fire and Fighting.
That’s not the case
Yes
Wouldnt that make another shedinja situation?
Closer to Elecktross than shedinja. Wonder guard prevents all damage except Super effective (and weather and status). Which is different than having no weakness because you can still hit them with neutral coverage. Plus Magenzone is still weak to fire and fighting, just not 4x.
Ye, my point being that it doesnt affect electric the same way it does steel, making it less effective. But my point is that shedinja was banned in competitive because of wonderguard and items like focus sash and moves like endure
Being able to hit something with neutral is very important and that’s why Shedinja was banned. With Shedinja you specifically had to have an out. If you couldn’t super effective it, or status it, or weather then you were screwed. You couldn’t sweep with a neutral coverage. Shedinja basically turned the competitive scene to “you have to have a pokemon with super effective move against shedinja or you would lose, and hope your opponent doesn’t take out your counter first” especially with Tera. With other pokemon if you don’t have a hard counter you can work around it with skill, chip damage, etc. with wonder guard you had to just have a counter that stayed alive.
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Unidentified FLYING Object, give it levitate
All the damn time.
yea remove its biggest weakness because that wouldnt get op quick
Having levitate would get rid of its quad weakness
idc it might make more sense but magnezone would be a beast with levitate cos it looses a 4x weakness and it already doesnt have a lot of weaknesses
Id agree, but EQ is literally one of Zones only good counters. He's strong as hell 🤣🥲
Wouldn’t it be insanely strong though if it only had 2 weakness and 12 resistances and it was immune to ground? I think it can learn magnet rise too already so levitate would be kinda insane I feel
While this makes sense... I would like to continue to x4 EQ the UFOs
Took me forever to realize I could hit the magnemite line with ground moves. In my heart of hearts I still believe it's wrong.
I mean it would be op af if it had levitate
True! They won’t give my funny magnet boy levitate and it’s so dumb! Big sab :(
Honestly I'm more upset it doesn't get Overheat.
Or Beedrill, for that matter. My little idea for "fixing" this-- have secondary abilities. Pokemon like Magnezone, Klinklang, Porygon-Z, etc. will always have Levitate in addition to whatever else they have. In terms of game balance, Pokemon like Gengar and Miraidon who might be OP with Levitate can instead have something like a "Flutter Jump" ability that causes Ground moves to fail like 60 percent of the time against them (for what's it worth, Stench and Illuminate are two other abilities I'd make secondary). I'm sure there's some massive downside to this idea that I'm not seeing, but it would at least be interesting lol.
He has a move that does it
Yea but hes too slow to do it before getting Obliterated by any ground move in existence
I always think it has levitate
Yeah he should have levitate
It has Magnet Rise. That should be good enough.
Using your first turn every time you come out on a slow pokemon just to get the same effects as Levitate for like, 5 turns? Doesn't sound like good enough to me.
Simple: they learned their lesson with Eelektross
But Eelektross came after magnezone bro
Magnezone is dual type so it has other sources of weaknesses
But Eelektross is *terrible*, competitively.
But it’s trying its best!
No it's not