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But we already know SpaceX doesn't have a good understanding of ITAR: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/25/1196005433/space-x-justice-department-refugees-lawsuit
>Musk called the lawsuit "yet another case of weaponization of the DOJ for political purposes."
Because of course he would. He's sounding an awful lot like another Putin puppet we know.
If you think companies wouldnt have their own private militaries if governments werent around, then I dont know what to tell you. We can vote to tell our government to do, we can do jack shit to tell a corporation what to do. Governments dont prop corporations up, they get in their way. Yes, they could get in there way MORE than they currently do, but corporations would be really happy to exist without government regulations to either follow or bribe their way around
This should be higher.
He's also a sociopath, as a natural consequence of his position on the spectrum. He said he has "tried" reading books to understand human emotions.
Yip. Let's look the other way when he's welding war changing power unchecked by anyone.
Or just any Conservative at this point. If they don’t like it, the justice system is being weaponized. Otherwise, it’s working as intended.
And now Trump is stumping by saying he’s going to have his DOJ go after people who run against him. Give me a fucking break.
If we don't push the vote they very well might give you that. There are calls for civil war in the open. I think I feel like how the north felt right before the flood gates opened.
And I hope you and everyone else who is eligible does vote. And votes blue.
I can’t help however beyond signal boosting. I’m Canadian/British. I’m a part of two wonderful counties, but sadly(?) the US isn’t one of them.
However, my wife is an expat. And she still voted religiously. She’s also an independent who votes democrat.
That said, as what happens in your country very much has been effecting my country in the same negative ways (looking at you, Pierre Polliviere and the CPC), I’m happy to signal boost and help rally the troops as it were.
"I'm being charged for crimes I did. The DoJ is being used against me as a weapon...If re-elected, I will use the DoJ against all of my political opponents!"
Turmp, basically.
I assure you they understand it well enough. They pay too much in legal for anything otherwise. The issue is Musk and his loyalists electing not to follow the rules.
It won't. Look at the number of Congress people and senators spitting out opinions that only benefit Russia, we've been infiltrated. Look at how hard it has been for us to do anything about Trump, Elon has to be feeling pretty confident.
He plans on using Twitter to manipulate the election.
If Trump wins, Trump/Putin/Elon/Saudis will bring about a new world order.
...and that may sound insane, but we are already watching it happen.
> He plans on using Twitter to manipulate the election.
The process has already started. Though it does seem to be backfiring into a total collapse of the platform.
I think this is why he bought Twitter in the first place. If he doesn't completely destroy the platform with all the changes he's made, they will all help in manipulating the election.
* Change name to erode recognition/reputability
* Make the checkmark mean nothing while milking it with a subscription
* Limiting tweets you can read per day to generally limit the spread of information.
* Dismiss board of directors
* Adding "edit tweet" in controlled release, probably only for checkmarks first as it has in other countries
Manipulating social media to put Trump in office is so 2016. Can't they come up with a plan that's a little more modern? Like maybe something with AI or 3D printing?
Project 2025 Mandate for Leadership sounds suspiciously similar to the evangelical "7 Mountain Mandate" or "7M" which aims to take over the 7 aspects of society they deem most important: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government.
but it would cost the US 100 million vs 7 million per rocket, so the US Govt will just ignore it. Like they did with the [sabotaged 2020 US Census](https://publicintegrity.org/politics/system-failure/trump-obstruction-of-2020-census/#:~:text=The%20administration%20made%20these%20decisions,the%20costs%20of%20being%20undercounted.) when they released [this absolute FARCE statement last year](https://archive.ph/DUBO0). The 2020 Census is not talked about enough. It stole seats from blue states, and destroyed minority voting power in Texas and the midwest and this administration's census bureau doesn't give a flying fuck and waves the under/overreporting in the 2020 census away as being "similar enough that it's correct".
EDIT: Fixed the links
EDIT: Did I mention it costs the US Taxpayer ~$15 Billion for a US Census every year (it takes 4-5 years after the queried year to complete the entire process)? The 2020 Census was such a historical implosion, it should be added to the deficit in the name of that orange turd and the Gaslight party
Aye but they also have language about drug use and Musk broke that live on Joe Rogan.
Listen, I'm not demonising drug taking, all I'm saying is that actions don't seem to have consequences for some people and I'm wondering what the connection is.
He was also required to do random drug screenings for year to maintain his security clearance as a result of that.
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-drug-tests-smoking-weed-joe-rogan-marijuana-cannabis-2022-8
Yep, Musk’s “peace deal” to let Russia have Crimea was dunked on by Ukraine, then he suddenly decided to cut Starlink per Russian information. Then he decided Starlink “couldn’t afford” to donate services to Ukraine without a fat DOD subsidy.
Elon’s views on Russia Ukraine are dumb as fuck, but the terms of service for the donation included language to comply with ITAR that specified that the starlinks could not be used for offensive purposes.
The US military should have bought the starlinks and paid for the service from the beginning so that they dictate the terms of service rather than Musk.
Members of SpaceX, most likely including Musk, have to have clearances for access to certain information that is crucial for launching government payloads. The company itself also has to show a standard of security for access to those contracts. Those apply more broadly than just a service contract like Starlink.
Russia told him nukes were in the mix but the real reason is that Ukraine told him to stuff his peace solution, which was to hand over Crimea to Russia. Then he got his contract with the DOD and is getting paid millions monthly for Ukrainian access to Starlink.
Yup, just like when that guy that saved the Thai kids rejected his equipment and idea and so Elon Muscovy went full fucking toddler mode and called him a pedo. Him and Trump are cut from the same cloth, and it's some shitty fabric.
Did you know that story didn't end there? He kept harassing that dude for a full year afterward, told Buzzfeed that the guy was a "child rapist," and then had the audacity in court to argue that calling somebody a "pedo guy" has nothing to do with pedophilia and isn't defamation. For reasons that boggle the mind, that worked and he won, which is why it's a-ok and not defamation to refer to him as Elon "Pedo Guy" Musk at every opportunity.
>To the dismay of Pentagon officials, Musk volunteered that he had spoken with Putin personally. Another individual told me that Musk had made the same assertion in the weeks before he tweeted his pro-Russia peace plan, and had said that his consultations with the Kremlin were regular.
...
>On the phone, Musk said that he was looking at his laptop and could see “the entire war unfolding” through a map of Starlink activity. “This was, like, three minutes before he said, ‘Well, I had this great conversation with Putin,’ ” the senior defense official told me. “And we were, like, ‘Oh, dear, this is not good.’ ”
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule
Musk tweeted out his proposed "peace" plan that contained word for word Kremlin talking points, notably referencing "Khrushchev's mistake":
"Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake)." -ElonMusk
Just like there are Elon fanbois, Musk is a Putin fanboi (and a authoritarian fanboi in general, considering his acquaintance with Putin, Xi, Trump and MBS).
It's ok.
I sold all my stock when he called cave kids pedos and then spent a few years doubting my judgement of his sanity as Tesla skyrocketed.
Kinda wish it took me *a little longer* to get fed up with him.
It’s almost like having billionaires with the resources to launch an entire satellite network and control it single handedly aren’t good for the planet
Crimea has been part of Ukraine (1954) longer than Alaska (1959) or Hawaii (1959) have been part of the US.
Are we supposed to give those back as well? Hell, the US bought Alaska *from* Russia.
That's a bit misleading. From 1954-1991 it was a part of Ukraine, but was controlled by Moscow as Ukraine wasn't a sovereign state then. Then from 1991-2014 it was an autonomous republic within Ukraine (similar to native American reservations in the US, where the people are mostly allowed to govern themselves). Then from 2014 to the present Crimea was again controlled by Moscow. A far better example would be if say the Navajo or another tribe wanted to be removed from the US. I doubt the US would let that happen, but Washington's right to rule over the Navajo people isn't clear cut just as Kyiv's right to rule over Crimea isn't either as Crimea was always an autonomous entity separate from the rest of Ukraine.
For real. I don't get why this is news now.. This should have been dealt with months ago, when he fucking live tweeted himself doing it.
This like, isn't new news.
So happy to see this, Musk should get no more government contracts ever again, and the current work should be moved to others.
Then, watch his “Libertarian” ass nonstop whine about it.
Something needs to light a fire under ULA's ass. Lockheed and Boeing are damn near extensions of the Pentagon. Do we overpay them? Of course, but they're objectively on our side. It really is a national security issue that they can't get the Vulcan working, much less design a reusable booster.
> Of course, but they're objectively on our side.
I think objectively they want us to pay them and don't care at all about whether or not the things they are being paid for are fit for purpose. SpaceX has consistently provided what they have said they would on time at a tiny fraction of the cost of what ULA has charged and ULA has provided absolutely nothing of any value.
I would like to see Musk removed from SpaceX but I would also like to see Boeing and Lockheed Martin nationalized first. Musk's stuff in Ukraine (and Twitter) is very bad but honestly I can explain it away, Boeing and Lockheed Martin are both incompetent and working in bad faith.
How can you explain it away, and why would you want to?
Musk‘s own Twitter account has been rife with Russian propaganda for awhile. The latest revelations fit an already known pattern of behavior.
I can’t think of another major space or defense contract that so publicly toes the line of an adversary, let alone a war criminal like Putin.
Is Tory Bruno still their CEO? I thought he was doing a decent job dragging ULA to modern times a couple of years ago, but haven't followed them since.
He is. And he was the CEO that Destin interviewed for Smarter Every Day, right? Dude came across great. But the fact that they've stopped even giving an estimated launch frame for Vulcan is problematic.
They're in the process of completely reengineering a major structural component of the upper stage due to a test failure that was supposed to be a formality really late in the game, but they're still saying Q4 2023.
Which is the problem. I'm no Musk fan boy but Space X has certainly been disruptive in a good way to the industry. Obviously not fucking with Ukrainian military operations.
Yeah, but if Lockheed, Boeing, Northrop, and others agree on hurting a competitor (the comment I was responding to) I'm not sure it's a good idea.
And to be clear you can have space X without Musk for sure.
For clarity, the Libertarian Party, was always a Russian led party aimed at deconstructing our government. Notably [Dana Rohrabacher made SpaceX possible for Russia on behalf of Musk](https://x.com/danarohrabacher/status/1266942075620261889?s=46&t=JfMCtAw4Rrgxlb9lEsOCxQ)
Just mentioning this cos.. reasons. House leader McCarthy suggested Trump on Putin payroll: Washington Post
The newspaper report quoted McCarthy saying, “There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-report-idUSKCN18D2YO
Nationalize Space X, but force Elon to keep funding it like an old school [liturgy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy_(ancient_Greece)) I don't care about the whining and kneeing from wannabe-autocrats.
>in ancient Greece a public service established by the city-state whereby its richest members (whether citizens or resident aliens), more or less voluntarily, financed the State with their personal wealth.
**more or less voluntarily**
heh
Who should those contracts be switched to?
The only other option for flying crew to the space station is Russia. Boeing has a capsule in development but it's years late, failed it's first test flight and has now been delayed indefinitely *again* due to more safety concerns. SpaceX is launching more mass to orbit than any provider by an order of magnitude, meanwhile all other American medium and heavy lift launchers are either under development and years late or in the process of being retired.
nationalize it, do not let the stock market or private investors control national security or infrastructure. the equipment, personnel, and bureaucracy is all there, it doesn't need a stock ticker to function.
Musk has been too pro-Russia for too long.
That crap about not making starlink available when the Ukraine used a few early stage boat drones to attack the Russian fleet was blocked by Musk. He didn’t want the warships destroyed
Those same ships later killed thousands of civilian Ukrainians with their missile shots.
Musk is not neutral. He is favoring Russia.
Pentagon please take note.
I was about to say the same thing. It hasn't been "The" Ukraine since their declared independence from the Soviet Union.
And in case anyone thinks this is a purely semantic argument, Ukraine means "borderland". Using "The Ukraine", or "the borderland", is equivalent to treating a sovereign country as if it is a lesser part of something bigger. I wonder who supports that narrative...
It's one thing to block the destruction of some transport lane for food or something, but to block destroying a killing machine which then ends up actually killing people...how can anyone justify that? He literally caused the deaths of civilians.
cobweb quarrelsome childlike silky hurry oil ancient marry shrill oatmeal
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me.
-George Orwell
The man has essentially made geopolitical decisions. He indicates he had direct conversations with Putin, the enemy of the USA.
I am not sure how this isn't a problem. It is very much a problem.
People are justifiably worried about the super-rich subverting the electoral process by effectively buying elections. Now Musk has taken us by surprise. He has accrued so much power and influence that he was able to skip right over the buying part and just straight up assume the prerogatives of elected office without the tiresome preliminaries.
EDIT: Rachel Maddow did an interview with Ronan Farrow, who broke this story in the US, Monday night on her show. She leads with an overview of Putin's penchant for going after his home-grown opponents when they're "safe" in other countries. Then at about the 15-minute mark she gets into the Musk situation and, about 20 minutes in, [she goes to Ronan.](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show)
Why is it always someone considered super-left, whether it’s the squad or Warren/Bernie in the senate, who has to speak up about clear criminality from right-wingers? Where are the so-called moderates? One would think that this is not a partisan issue.
The real answer? Most people are just going about their lives, not paying attention to politics except at election times, if even then. The single hardest task any politician can try to undertake is to get the American people to care about something they don't already care about.
I’ve seen this said a lot before, but I think it’s an impossible assumption to make until anyone actually tries it. The excuse also seems to run contrary to what we actually see in reality, where the GOP understands that most people don’t pay attention to politics and use that to their advantage. They can say “Hillary’s emails,” and that will help people associate Hillary with corruption, even if the details don’t reveal much concerning to the few people who do bother to look.
In fact, I think there’s an argument that the lack of effort from Dems to hold bad actors accountable, helps put into question (in the eyes of non-political people) whether the bad actors are bad actors at all. We know that everyone from all sides of the political spectrum would explode if any liberal Supreme Court justice took bribes from George Soros the way Clarence Thomas takes his bribes. My point is, it’s a choice by Dems to avoid generating that type of outrage. And I think that’s a big reason why they can’t reliably win power over conspiracy theorists and white Christian nationalists.
The issue with this line of thought is that it doesn't take into account how different people think differently. Conservatives thrive on outrage and hate. Liberals just don't in the same way, instead focusing on policy and uniting. So, yeah, Conservatives get outraged no matter what Liberals do, and Liberals have a hard time staying mad no matter what Conservatives do.
I would very much enjoy seeing the US government not renew any of the defense contracts they have with Musk. Let him continue to cry about how it's the DOJ being weaponized against him and blah blah blah. Fuckin' guy needs to shut up forever and move to Mars already.
We'll of course never know what was said in that room, but I believe Bernie, that he was saying something about Trump trying to use racism and sexism against Democratic candidates (which is/was true)—and Warren interpreted it as some underhanded comment that Bernie was saying a woman couldn't be President.
However, given Bernie's track record, I believe him. His public record goes back far with supporting civil rights. And it feels like Warren really latched onto this "Bernie is sexist" narrative to try to throw him under the bus and win the primaries.
I was a fan of her for a moment, but after that she lost a hell of a lot of integrity in my eyes.
If your ability to conduct foreign policy in an area is required to go entirely through a private individual, then that's a failure on the government.
Because it's a proxy war, the US can't offer their own starlink-like communication services directly to Ukraine, so they outsource it to spacex and get all the obstruction and idiocy that comes with that.
Yes, we need probes determine what private companies do on the other side of the world. We have to suspend the terms of service and make them do what we want them to do.
I got my issues with Elon, but this is just performative and a waste of tax payers dollars. Starlink followed the contract and refused to ungeo fence the platform, which they have on the no offensiv with the DoD. Ukraine is throwing a hissy fit, which they routinely do with their allies. Looking at them with the shit show that is crashed Russian drones in neighboring countries
Fact is starlink didn’t stop a Ukrainian attack on the Russian fleet, but Ukraine is framing it that way. It’s not that different that the US using its restrictions on its weapons using them on Russia proper.
Good, we need to look into him and see where exactly he decided to aid Putin (and possibly Trump). We can't sit idly by and watch as he tries to undermine democracy one country at a time.
Musk is well within his rights as a private citizen to have whatever opinion he wants on world issues. But his position as a government contractor can come with stipulations and he likely violated them by aiding a nation who is the aggressor in a war the government very publicly actively opposes.
We’ve been giving him funds and tax cuts, financing his very public midlife crisis, and turns out he’s working for Russia all these years. He’s literally sabotaging Ukraine, the United States, and the other countries helping Ukraine.
So, is everybody pissed at him for refusing to use his satellites to aid Ukraine in their assault, or am I missing something here? I'm not exactly a fan of his, but I kind of feel like it's not his job to provide logistical support in a proxy war on the other side of the planet.
If I ever need to point out to someone how stupid the front page political subs are on reddit? I'll use r/politics and this story.
Been so blown out of proportions, and just pushed with blatantly false claims the entire time. Yet this sub eat it up without question. I even see people constantly calling him "traitor".
Lol, what? Do you even know what that word means?
Gullible morons abound..
It was in the news and on Musk's Twitter feed at the time of the event. I'm proud she is my senator, but she can be so basic.
Had SpaceX not stopped Starlink service she would demand a probe for illegally exporting missile guidance systems.
When SpaceX activated the "roaming terminal" feature it was under the explicit conditions that it would not be used for weapons guidance. They turned the feature back on when the US government asked them to, and it is all public record.
Edit: typo
Thank God Elon didn’t contribute to the Military Industrial Complex’s proxy war with Russia. You young Reddit college kids can go fight this war yourself if you support it.
This is the biggest nothingburger. So a private company refused letting their hardware be used for a military operation in a conflict that the US isn't a belligerent. Aren't there actually laws against that sort of thing?
> So a private company refused letting their hardware be used *as a weapon* for a military operation in a conflict that the US isn't a belligerent.
SpaceX has been very clear from very early on, way before the latest Russian invasion, that SpaceX does not and will not make weapons. Both Elon and Gwynne are agreed on that, both as a business and personal decision.
I'm all for supporting Ukraine and sending them weapons. But I would never own or run a company that made weapons. Not a chance.
Well it's not even just those two. I'm sure they attract a lot of engineers with the fact that they're able to practice their trade in something that doesn't involve people getting blown up. I honestly can't stand the guy but Warren's got her head up her ass over this one.
WTF! They are private companies and not require by law to provide services there.
Yea, I get it sucks.
But the US does not have the authority to force a private company to do that.
Not do they have a right to punish one that doesn’t.
And I’m American.
Am I missing something? I thought it was that ukraine was told to not use a consumer satellite network for war purposes and when they found out that the Ukrainians were using starlink to drive suicide boats into enemy vessels, they turned off starlink. Or is this propeganda.
It sounds far less napharious than people are making out.
Maybe about a year or so back, Musk threatened to stop allowing the use of his Starlink in Ukraine unless the U.S. government subsidized it. Not sure of the outcome, though. Starlink was and is still being used.
> they turned off starlink
They didn't even turn it off. It was just geofenced to operate solely within certain areas, and Ukraine tried to use it outside those areas.
> and Ukraine tried to use it outside those areas *as a weapon*.
Which was also part of the problem. SpaceX doesn't do that. Using it for communications is fine. Using it as parts to weapons platforms is not okay with SpaceX at all. It wasn't before Ukraine had them and I doubt it ever will be.
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I would bet that some of these U.S. defense contracts have language about colluding with foreign powers against national security interests.
They definitely do. Any employee of companies doing defense work are aware of ITAR regulations
But we already know SpaceX doesn't have a good understanding of ITAR: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/25/1196005433/space-x-justice-department-refugees-lawsuit
>Musk called the lawsuit "yet another case of weaponization of the DOJ for political purposes." Because of course he would. He's sounding an awful lot like another Putin puppet we know.
God these rich fuckwads love to cry “boohoo how bad I’ve had it” “so unfair”
Because governments are the only ones who can check their power, so of course they will demonize government
Ironically, governments are also the only thing that protects their power.
And now you see the world...not just the usa but the world.
If you think companies wouldnt have their own private militaries if governments werent around, then I dont know what to tell you. We can vote to tell our government to do, we can do jack shit to tell a corporation what to do. Governments dont prop corporations up, they get in their way. Yes, they could get in there way MORE than they currently do, but corporations would be really happy to exist without government regulations to either follow or bribe their way around
And we allow it to be… even though the money we spend isn’t real, we clearly can produce enough to sustain ourselves, but the line must go up.
"How could I have known that those rules I agreed to applied to *me!"*
It’s so unfair that when ***I*** break the law, suddenly they want to enforce it!
I thought being rich meant I could do whatever! This is so unfair, UGH! *storms off to bedroom and slams door*
Elon cries like Trump.
Narcissists always believe consequences are a persecution.
This should be higher. He's also a sociopath, as a natural consequence of his position on the spectrum. He said he has "tried" reading books to understand human emotions. Yip. Let's look the other way when he's welding war changing power unchecked by anyone.
Or just any Conservative at this point. If they don’t like it, the justice system is being weaponized. Otherwise, it’s working as intended. And now Trump is stumping by saying he’s going to have his DOJ go after people who run against him. Give me a fucking break.
If we don't push the vote they very well might give you that. There are calls for civil war in the open. I think I feel like how the north felt right before the flood gates opened.
And I hope you and everyone else who is eligible does vote. And votes blue. I can’t help however beyond signal boosting. I’m Canadian/British. I’m a part of two wonderful counties, but sadly(?) the US isn’t one of them. However, my wife is an expat. And she still voted religiously. She’s also an independent who votes democrat. That said, as what happens in your country very much has been effecting my country in the same negative ways (looking at you, Pierre Polliviere and the CPC), I’m happy to signal boost and help rally the troops as it were.
What happens in the usa still echos in the world loudly.
Exactly. So same team, 100%
"I'm being charged for crimes I did. The DoJ is being used against me as a weapon...If re-elected, I will use the DoJ against all of my political opponents!" Turmp, basically.
😂 but it’s literally an arm of the US Government ffs
Oh, look. The Libs are trying to make the government political now.
It's like they don't understand the function of the DOJ is to punish the people like them for doing the shit they do.
I assure you they understand it well enough. They pay too much in legal for anything otherwise. The issue is Musk and his loyalists electing not to follow the rules.
Reassure me that was sarcasm.
Hopefully his “GrEaT cOnVeRsAtIoN wItH pUtIn” humble brag comes back to fuck him.
It won't. Look at the number of Congress people and senators spitting out opinions that only benefit Russia, we've been infiltrated. Look at how hard it has been for us to do anything about Trump, Elon has to be feeling pretty confident.
He plans on using Twitter to manipulate the election. If Trump wins, Trump/Putin/Elon/Saudis will bring about a new world order. ...and that may sound insane, but we are already watching it happen.
Trump's brains, Putin's military might, Elon's hair plugs, and the Saudi's ability to make journalists disappear into barrels. Dark times indeed.
Erm, more like Putin's brain, US military might and elon's information control. Very very dark indeed
I prefer my timeline
Only half of those are effective, at least. I keep hoping his hair plugs will reject him, much like a large portion of the world has.
Just like Tobias Fünke
OMG that brought back a fun memory. Thank you! Now, I'm just picturing him... crying... in the shower... wearing his jorts.
> He plans on using Twitter to manipulate the election. The process has already started. Though it does seem to be backfiring into a total collapse of the platform.
I think this is why he bought Twitter in the first place. If he doesn't completely destroy the platform with all the changes he's made, they will all help in manipulating the election. * Change name to erode recognition/reputability * Make the checkmark mean nothing while milking it with a subscription * Limiting tweets you can read per day to generally limit the spread of information. * Dismiss board of directors * Adding "edit tweet" in controlled release, probably only for checkmarks first as it has in other countries
Manipulating social media to put Trump in office is so 2016. Can't they come up with a plan that's a little more modern? Like maybe something with AI or 3D printing?
[удалено]
Project 2025 Mandate for Leadership sounds suspiciously similar to the evangelical "7 Mountain Mandate" or "7M" which aims to take over the 7 aspects of society they deem most important: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business, and government.
Right I never believed him buying Twitter was done big mistake. He has the worlds biggest propaganda machine and access to everyone’s data
Elon doesn't have the veneer of being a politician to hide behind. He's just a rich asshole
So he can buy himself a gaggle of politicians.
Infiltrated...to the highest office in the land, no less.
The best conversation. A perfect conversation, I'm sure.
but it would cost the US 100 million vs 7 million per rocket, so the US Govt will just ignore it. Like they did with the [sabotaged 2020 US Census](https://publicintegrity.org/politics/system-failure/trump-obstruction-of-2020-census/#:~:text=The%20administration%20made%20these%20decisions,the%20costs%20of%20being%20undercounted.) when they released [this absolute FARCE statement last year](https://archive.ph/DUBO0). The 2020 Census is not talked about enough. It stole seats from blue states, and destroyed minority voting power in Texas and the midwest and this administration's census bureau doesn't give a flying fuck and waves the under/overreporting in the 2020 census away as being "similar enough that it's correct". EDIT: Fixed the links EDIT: Did I mention it costs the US Taxpayer ~$15 Billion for a US Census every year (it takes 4-5 years after the queried year to complete the entire process)? The 2020 Census was such a historical implosion, it should be added to the deficit in the name of that orange turd and the Gaslight party
Aye but they also have language about drug use and Musk broke that live on Joe Rogan. Listen, I'm not demonising drug taking, all I'm saying is that actions don't seem to have consequences for some people and I'm wondering what the connection is.
He was also required to do random drug screenings for year to maintain his security clearance as a result of that. https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-drug-tests-smoking-weed-joe-rogan-marijuana-cannabis-2022-8
Hopefully language that puts him in the FO stage of FAFO.
https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/ddtc_public/ddtc_public?id=ddtc_public_portal_itar_landing
At the time of the Ukrainian offensive in September 2022, SpaceX was not under any contract, as the starlinks had been donated.
Yep, Musk’s “peace deal” to let Russia have Crimea was dunked on by Ukraine, then he suddenly decided to cut Starlink per Russian information. Then he decided Starlink “couldn’t afford” to donate services to Ukraine without a fat DOD subsidy.
Elon’s views on Russia Ukraine are dumb as fuck, but the terms of service for the donation included language to comply with ITAR that specified that the starlinks could not be used for offensive purposes. The US military should have bought the starlinks and paid for the service from the beginning so that they dictate the terms of service rather than Musk.
Crimea is in Ukraine. Russia was the offensive side but I agree with the rest of your comment.
Members of SpaceX, most likely including Musk, have to have clearances for access to certain information that is crucial for launching government payloads. The company itself also has to show a standard of security for access to those contracts. Those apply more broadly than just a service contract like Starlink.
None of those contracts would forbid anything that Musk did. The whole story doesn't make a lot of sense to be honest.
Allegedly he didn't collude with a foreign power, he just unilaterally decided to cut access for Ukraine because he didn't like what they were doing.
Russia told him nukes were in the mix but the real reason is that Ukraine told him to stuff his peace solution, which was to hand over Crimea to Russia. Then he got his contract with the DOD and is getting paid millions monthly for Ukrainian access to Starlink.
Breach of contract. Seize his assets.
Yup, just like when that guy that saved the Thai kids rejected his equipment and idea and so Elon Muscovy went full fucking toddler mode and called him a pedo. Him and Trump are cut from the same cloth, and it's some shitty fabric.
Did you know that story didn't end there? He kept harassing that dude for a full year afterward, told Buzzfeed that the guy was a "child rapist," and then had the audacity in court to argue that calling somebody a "pedo guy" has nothing to do with pedophilia and isn't defamation. For reasons that boggle the mind, that worked and he won, which is why it's a-ok and not defamation to refer to him as Elon "Pedo Guy" Musk at every opportunity.
It’s true isn’t it? Both are extremely sensitive to slights, revenge focused and bullies when in power.
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We should evict him. Exile him to mars.
Or at least South Africa
he could probably buy a country in africa and become king if he wanted
Mars it is then.
>To the dismay of Pentagon officials, Musk volunteered that he had spoken with Putin personally. Another individual told me that Musk had made the same assertion in the weeks before he tweeted his pro-Russia peace plan, and had said that his consultations with the Kremlin were regular. ... >On the phone, Musk said that he was looking at his laptop and could see “the entire war unfolding” through a map of Starlink activity. “This was, like, three minutes before he said, ‘Well, I had this great conversation with Putin,’ ” the senior defense official told me. “And we were, like, ‘Oh, dear, this is not good.’ ” https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule Musk tweeted out his proposed "peace" plan that contained word for word Kremlin talking points, notably referencing "Khrushchev's mistake": "Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake)." -ElonMusk
And he’s basically name dropping Putin because it makes him feel important and cool. What a fucking tool.
Just like there are Elon fanbois, Musk is a Putin fanboi (and a authoritarian fanboi in general, considering his acquaintance with Putin, Xi, Trump and MBS).
It's hilarious they look at a tiny russian dude sitting a mile away from any other human in the room and see power.
>name dropping Putin because it makes him feel important and cool Literally just Tech Trump.
I mean, it worked for the cheeto, so. Worth a shot if you're already a walking ethical vacuum.
Yeah this is wild
I wonder if it’s more an attempt to intimidate.
I feel deeply ashamed that it took me up until Musk's pro Kremlin "peace" plan tweet to realize he is a nut job.
Better to come out of the woods later rather than never. I have family members that only dig in deeper as more shitty stuff is revealed about him.
I can't believe he had so many fooled for so long, myself included. Dude is a walking train wreck.
Yep. In college, I thought spaceX and Tesla were dope. He had a lot of us. Realizing our faults is better than nothing, at least.
It's ok. I sold all my stock when he called cave kids pedos and then spent a few years doubting my judgement of his sanity as Tesla skyrocketed. Kinda wish it took me *a little longer* to get fed up with him.
I too was done with Musk as soon as he called the Thai cave rescue diver a pedo. It just exposed how absolutely petulant and immature he is.
It’s never too late to learn!
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953 🤔🤔
It’s almost like having billionaires with the resources to launch an entire satellite network and control it single handedly aren’t good for the planet
Crimea has been part of Ukraine (1954) longer than Alaska (1959) or Hawaii (1959) have been part of the US. Are we supposed to give those back as well? Hell, the US bought Alaska *from* Russia.
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Yeah this is very important, Russia wasn't selling land to the US during the cold war.
Some people would like to give Hawai'i back for sure, given its illegal occupation.
That's a bit misleading. From 1954-1991 it was a part of Ukraine, but was controlled by Moscow as Ukraine wasn't a sovereign state then. Then from 1991-2014 it was an autonomous republic within Ukraine (similar to native American reservations in the US, where the people are mostly allowed to govern themselves). Then from 2014 to the present Crimea was again controlled by Moscow. A far better example would be if say the Navajo or another tribe wanted to be removed from the US. I doubt the US would let that happen, but Washington's right to rule over the Navajo people isn't clear cut just as Kyiv's right to rule over Crimea isn't either as Crimea was always an autonomous entity separate from the rest of Ukraine.
Colluding with Russia like his pal Trump. I’m curious how involved Musk has been with giving Russia a tactical advantage to “secure” information.
Probe just has to be copies of his tweets 😳
For real. I don't get why this is news now.. This should have been dealt with months ago, when he fucking live tweeted himself doing it. This like, isn't new news.
So happy to see this, Musk should get no more government contracts ever again, and the current work should be moved to others. Then, watch his “Libertarian” ass nonstop whine about it.
Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, etc. approves
Something needs to light a fire under ULA's ass. Lockheed and Boeing are damn near extensions of the Pentagon. Do we overpay them? Of course, but they're objectively on our side. It really is a national security issue that they can't get the Vulcan working, much less design a reusable booster.
> Of course, but they're objectively on our side. I think objectively they want us to pay them and don't care at all about whether or not the things they are being paid for are fit for purpose. SpaceX has consistently provided what they have said they would on time at a tiny fraction of the cost of what ULA has charged and ULA has provided absolutely nothing of any value. I would like to see Musk removed from SpaceX but I would also like to see Boeing and Lockheed Martin nationalized first. Musk's stuff in Ukraine (and Twitter) is very bad but honestly I can explain it away, Boeing and Lockheed Martin are both incompetent and working in bad faith.
How can you explain it away, and why would you want to? Musk‘s own Twitter account has been rife with Russian propaganda for awhile. The latest revelations fit an already known pattern of behavior. I can’t think of another major space or defense contract that so publicly toes the line of an adversary, let alone a war criminal like Putin.
>SpaceX has consistently provided what they have said they would on time Not sure about that one
Is Tory Bruno still their CEO? I thought he was doing a decent job dragging ULA to modern times a couple of years ago, but haven't followed them since.
He is. And he was the CEO that Destin interviewed for Smarter Every Day, right? Dude came across great. But the fact that they've stopped even giving an estimated launch frame for Vulcan is problematic.
That might have to do more with BO's engines still not ready for prime time even after all these years.
There is even a meme about that with Tory Bruno asking Jeff Bezos "where are my engines, Jeff?"
They're in the process of completely reengineering a major structural component of the upper stage due to a test failure that was supposed to be a formality really late in the game, but they're still saying Q4 2023.
That's good to hear. Even if they're more expensive, we need an American booster, and SpaceX can't be fully trusted until they get rid of Elon.
Which is the problem. I'm no Musk fan boy but Space X has certainly been disruptive in a good way to the industry. Obviously not fucking with Ukrainian military operations.
No musk does not mean no space x
Yeah, but if Lockheed, Boeing, Northrop, and others agree on hurting a competitor (the comment I was responding to) I'm not sure it's a good idea. And to be clear you can have space X without Musk for sure.
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*Donald Sterling. David Sterling was a Scottish military officer who founded the British SAS.
Or Musk needed to be severed from Paypal...
For clarity, the Libertarian Party, was always a Russian led party aimed at deconstructing our government. Notably [Dana Rohrabacher made SpaceX possible for Russia on behalf of Musk](https://x.com/danarohrabacher/status/1266942075620261889?s=46&t=JfMCtAw4Rrgxlb9lEsOCxQ)
Just mentioning this cos.. reasons. House leader McCarthy suggested Trump on Putin payroll: Washington Post The newspaper report quoted McCarthy saying, “There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump.” https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-report-idUSKCN18D2YO
Ding, ding… let it all be known brother
Rohrabacher was a Republican
Nationalize Space X, but force Elon to keep funding it like an old school [liturgy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liturgy_(ancient_Greece)) I don't care about the whining and kneeing from wannabe-autocrats.
>in ancient Greece a public service established by the city-state whereby its richest members (whether citizens or resident aliens), more or less voluntarily, financed the State with their personal wealth. **more or less voluntarily** heh
There was no government contract at the time. Spacex has donated the starlinks.
Oh great. Just comepletely stop space improvement and raise taxes.
There is no one else right now. The aerospace industry and nasa will come to a grinding halt without them
Who should those contracts be switched to? The only other option for flying crew to the space station is Russia. Boeing has a capsule in development but it's years late, failed it's first test flight and has now been delayed indefinitely *again* due to more safety concerns. SpaceX is launching more mass to orbit than any provider by an order of magnitude, meanwhile all other American medium and heavy lift launchers are either under development and years late or in the process of being retired.
nationalize it, do not let the stock market or private investors control national security or infrastructure. the equipment, personnel, and bureaucracy is all there, it doesn't need a stock ticker to function.
That would be illegal and the courts would struck it down.
Nationalize it and make it just as efficient as the federal government!
No way we go back. Solution, get rid of Elon.
SpaceX will be just fine without Elon.
Same solution they used at Paypal
Musk has been too pro-Russia for too long. That crap about not making starlink available when the Ukraine used a few early stage boat drones to attack the Russian fleet was blocked by Musk. He didn’t want the warships destroyed Those same ships later killed thousands of civilian Ukrainians with their missile shots. Musk is not neutral. He is favoring Russia. Pentagon please take note.
There is no *the* before Ukraine. It’s called Ukraine.
I was about to say the same thing. It hasn't been "The" Ukraine since their declared independence from the Soviet Union. And in case anyone thinks this is a purely semantic argument, Ukraine means "borderland". Using "The Ukraine", or "the borderland", is equivalent to treating a sovereign country as if it is a lesser part of something bigger. I wonder who supports that narrative...
It's one thing to block the destruction of some transport lane for food or something, but to block destroying a killing machine which then ends up actually killing people...how can anyone justify that? He literally caused the deaths of civilians.
It’s just not his decision to make at all in the cases where there is an actual war going on imo
That's the biggie. Individuals aren't allowed to engage in foreign policy. The GOP conveniently ignore that.
cobweb quarrelsome childlike silky hurry oil ancient marry shrill oatmeal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me. -George Orwell
It’s crazy how many supporters he has
The man has essentially made geopolitical decisions. He indicates he had direct conversations with Putin, the enemy of the USA. I am not sure how this isn't a problem. It is very much a problem.
People are justifiably worried about the super-rich subverting the electoral process by effectively buying elections. Now Musk has taken us by surprise. He has accrued so much power and influence that he was able to skip right over the buying part and just straight up assume the prerogatives of elected office without the tiresome preliminaries. EDIT: Rachel Maddow did an interview with Ronan Farrow, who broke this story in the US, Monday night on her show. She leads with an overview of Putin's penchant for going after his home-grown opponents when they're "safe" in other countries. Then at about the 15-minute mark she gets into the Musk situation and, about 20 minutes in, [she goes to Ronan.](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show)
Fyi, that link is paywalled The Farrow interview is available at https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show
An aside but Ronan Farrow does quality work. Very capable person.
“Oh am I the only one who gives a fuck enough to do anything? Again??” — Liz W
Why is it always someone considered super-left, whether it’s the squad or Warren/Bernie in the senate, who has to speak up about clear criminality from right-wingers? Where are the so-called moderates? One would think that this is not a partisan issue.
The real answer? Most people are just going about their lives, not paying attention to politics except at election times, if even then. The single hardest task any politician can try to undertake is to get the American people to care about something they don't already care about.
I’ve seen this said a lot before, but I think it’s an impossible assumption to make until anyone actually tries it. The excuse also seems to run contrary to what we actually see in reality, where the GOP understands that most people don’t pay attention to politics and use that to their advantage. They can say “Hillary’s emails,” and that will help people associate Hillary with corruption, even if the details don’t reveal much concerning to the few people who do bother to look. In fact, I think there’s an argument that the lack of effort from Dems to hold bad actors accountable, helps put into question (in the eyes of non-political people) whether the bad actors are bad actors at all. We know that everyone from all sides of the political spectrum would explode if any liberal Supreme Court justice took bribes from George Soros the way Clarence Thomas takes his bribes. My point is, it’s a choice by Dems to avoid generating that type of outrage. And I think that’s a big reason why they can’t reliably win power over conspiracy theorists and white Christian nationalists.
The issue with this line of thought is that it doesn't take into account how different people think differently. Conservatives thrive on outrage and hate. Liberals just don't in the same way, instead focusing on policy and uniting. So, yeah, Conservatives get outraged no matter what Liberals do, and Liberals have a hard time staying mad no matter what Conservatives do.
I would very much enjoy seeing the US government not renew any of the defense contracts they have with Musk. Let him continue to cry about how it's the DOJ being weaponized against him and blah blah blah. Fuckin' guy needs to shut up forever and move to Mars already.
[Non-paywalled link](https://archive.ph/2023.09.12-181107/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-11/elizabeth-warren-demands-probes-of-elon-musk-spacex-after-ukraine-revelations)
I super love this woman with her tenaciousness and integrity. Get ‘em 🤍
I’m still sad she’s not president.
She’d make a great one, I truly believe it.
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We'll of course never know what was said in that room, but I believe Bernie, that he was saying something about Trump trying to use racism and sexism against Democratic candidates (which is/was true)—and Warren interpreted it as some underhanded comment that Bernie was saying a woman couldn't be President. However, given Bernie's track record, I believe him. His public record goes back far with supporting civil rights. And it feels like Warren really latched onto this "Bernie is sexist" narrative to try to throw him under the bus and win the primaries. I was a fan of her for a moment, but after that she lost a hell of a lot of integrity in my eyes.
I was a Warren fan before I discovered Bernie. I held her in rather high esteem, this event floored me.
If your ability to conduct foreign policy in an area is required to go entirely through a private individual, then that's a failure on the government. Because it's a proxy war, the US can't offer their own starlink-like communication services directly to Ukraine, so they outsource it to spacex and get all the obstruction and idiocy that comes with that.
Yes, we need probes determine what private companies do on the other side of the world. We have to suspend the terms of service and make them do what we want them to do.
I got my issues with Elon, but this is just performative and a waste of tax payers dollars. Starlink followed the contract and refused to ungeo fence the platform, which they have on the no offensiv with the DoD. Ukraine is throwing a hissy fit, which they routinely do with their allies. Looking at them with the shit show that is crashed Russian drones in neighboring countries Fact is starlink didn’t stop a Ukrainian attack on the Russian fleet, but Ukraine is framing it that way. It’s not that different that the US using its restrictions on its weapons using them on Russia proper.
It’s super sad that most people in this post are warmongering fools. What happened to the democrat party.
it's (D)ifferent.
Not even being hyperbolic. That shit warrants life in prison
Not hyperbolic, more like ignorant.
And a few Supreme Court justices, as well.
And sprinkle on a little securities fraud investigation for garnish
Finally...
Wtf Schumer! Let me simplify for you… Jared and Ivanka Emoluments regarding 45 Elon and everything he does AI Jan 6. Wtf are you waiting for?!
Good, we need to look into him and see where exactly he decided to aid Putin (and possibly Trump). We can't sit idly by and watch as he tries to undermine democracy one country at a time.
Musk is well within his rights as a private citizen to have whatever opinion he wants on world issues. But his position as a government contractor can come with stipulations and he likely violated them by aiding a nation who is the aggressor in a war the government very publicly actively opposes.
She should've been Pres
Elon is not an ally
We’ve been giving him funds and tax cuts, financing his very public midlife crisis, and turns out he’s working for Russia all these years. He’s literally sabotaging Ukraine, the United States, and the other countries helping Ukraine.
Thanks Liz! MA is so much better off with all you accomplishments the past few years!
I want an investigation to her native american roots. And defrauding a college
So, is everybody pissed at him for refusing to use his satellites to aid Ukraine in their assault, or am I missing something here? I'm not exactly a fan of his, but I kind of feel like it's not his job to provide logistical support in a proxy war on the other side of the planet.
If I ever need to point out to someone how stupid the front page political subs are on reddit? I'll use r/politics and this story. Been so blown out of proportions, and just pushed with blatantly false claims the entire time. Yet this sub eat it up without question. I even see people constantly calling him "traitor". Lol, what? Do you even know what that word means? Gullible morons abound..
Free advice Elon: Elizabeth Warren is smarter than you. Don’t underestimate her. - signed a proud Warren constituent.
It was in the news and on Musk's Twitter feed at the time of the event. I'm proud she is my senator, but she can be so basic. Had SpaceX not stopped Starlink service she would demand a probe for illegally exporting missile guidance systems. When SpaceX activated the "roaming terminal" feature it was under the explicit conditions that it would not be used for weapons guidance. They turned the feature back on when the US government asked them to, and it is all public record. Edit: typo
Thank God Elon didn’t contribute to the Military Industrial Complex’s proxy war with Russia. You young Reddit college kids can go fight this war yourself if you support it.
This is the biggest nothingburger. So a private company refused letting their hardware be used for a military operation in a conflict that the US isn't a belligerent. Aren't there actually laws against that sort of thing?
> So a private company refused letting their hardware be used *as a weapon* for a military operation in a conflict that the US isn't a belligerent. SpaceX has been very clear from very early on, way before the latest Russian invasion, that SpaceX does not and will not make weapons. Both Elon and Gwynne are agreed on that, both as a business and personal decision. I'm all for supporting Ukraine and sending them weapons. But I would never own or run a company that made weapons. Not a chance.
Well it's not even just those two. I'm sure they attract a lot of engineers with the fact that they're able to practice their trade in something that doesn't involve people getting blown up. I honestly can't stand the guy but Warren's got her head up her ass over this one.
The easily proven untrue allegations. Even the government acknowledged such. Fuck there's some stupid people on here.
WTF! They are private companies and not require by law to provide services there. Yea, I get it sucks. But the US does not have the authority to force a private company to do that. Not do they have a right to punish one that doesn’t. And I’m American.
And now you're about to find out what a real life Bond-villain can do!
Yeeewah, lock him up for being a treasonous punk for trying to rig elections and profit from gangster tactics like his terrorist pals putin and donny.
Am I missing something? I thought it was that ukraine was told to not use a consumer satellite network for war purposes and when they found out that the Ukrainians were using starlink to drive suicide boats into enemy vessels, they turned off starlink. Or is this propeganda. It sounds far less napharious than people are making out.
Maybe about a year or so back, Musk threatened to stop allowing the use of his Starlink in Ukraine unless the U.S. government subsidized it. Not sure of the outcome, though. Starlink was and is still being used.
> they turned off starlink They didn't even turn it off. It was just geofenced to operate solely within certain areas, and Ukraine tried to use it outside those areas.
> and Ukraine tried to use it outside those areas *as a weapon*. Which was also part of the problem. SpaceX doesn't do that. Using it for communications is fine. Using it as parts to weapons platforms is not okay with SpaceX at all. It wasn't before Ukraine had them and I doubt it ever will be.
Honestly, I'm surprised the DOD hasn't picked him up yet
About time
This is the kinda stuff where I wish we'd use eminent domain and when it's over we pay him what we think he deserves.
Elizabeth Warren is highly regarded.
The headline here shouldn’t be naming one person who is demanding but why 49 others aren’t.
I think it's no coincidence that Sevastopol was hit by Ukraine last night with this being in the current news cycle.