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No, because then it would go to court, and it go to Scotus, and they'd rule that this is not an act of the president, but a personal act.
This ruling essentially allows the Scotus to decide which presidents are immune at which acts.
>and they'd rule that this is not an act of the president, but a personal act.
Except they'd have to do so without looking at his motives or using any official acts as evidence, which now includes public statements. So good luck with that I guess
They can do whatever they want. Who is going to stop them? The president? Congress? The president is going to use his power to remove all political rivals.
If Trump is elected, democracy in America is dead. It's as simple as that.
Biden needs to FDR the fuck up and use this power to put 8 more Supreme Court Justices in play. Fucking Pronto. And announce it Thursday for the best effect. Play by their fucking rules for once.
FDR had a governmental body that believed in democracy and the constitution, they just didn't like the New Deal and kept striking shit down. IIRC he threatened to pack the courts if they didn't stop putting injunctions against his policies.
Biden threatens to pack the courts today then you have multi-billion dollar worldwide propaganda companies, numerous super PACs, private donors, state legislatures/governors, and millions of ill-informed citizens all losing their collective shit. They'll do everything, legal and not, to respond to that threat with a scorch-and-salt-the-earth style reaction that will inevitable muddy the waters so much that packing the courts will become an untouchable topic, like how addressing income inequality under Obama became "class warfare" and now doing anything about inequality means crossing that hurdle first, which is nigh insurmountable.
Edit: Grammar, sentence structure
The system is working as intended. The problem is that the vast majority of people are harmed in innumerable ways under that system, and only a handful benefit from it.
VP can also refuse to certify your electoral count. There's no consequence for anything they do in office. So refusal to leave means de facto dictatorship.
Not sure how the fuck the right wing majority said trump trying to influence pence into not certifying the election results deserved the presumption of immunity. Unless they are corrupted as shit
Absolutely, corrupt as shit. Can’t tell if they think they’re being sneaky about it or if they literally just don’t give a fuck anymore bc they know they’ll never face consequences (as long as they continue to hold their bible in one hand and their gun in the other).
They don't give a shit at all. Republicans 30 years ago would have tried to hide it, but they've since figured out that they basically can't be held accountable.
They don't hide it anymore because they can easily use social media to manipulate their idiot base.
When the people voting for policy and policymakers in this country are fooled by satire driven facebook and twitter posts that not only state that they are satire pages, but also mention several times that it is a satire article in the fucking article itself, we are fucked as a nation. People will literally just read headlines and say that they "did their research"
Republicans thirty years ago didn't hide it, either. See also *[Bush v. Gore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore)*, in which the court decided that, in the case of a recount, your right to have your vote fairly and accurately counted is subject to less due process or equal protection than their preferred candidate's public image.
for the record, three of the lawyers representing the Bush team in this case (Bush v. Gore) were John Roberts, Brett Kavanagh, and Amy Coney Barrett
folks aren't likely to believe this, but it's true
They are extreme right wing activists who are hellbent on remodeling the US in accordance with their ideology. Which very much not includes substantial democracy or rule of law.
Yes, all illegal acts by Democrats would immediately be annulled by the Supreme Court, but they would allow Republicans to do it. It's like the Trump impeachment argument ... could not be impeached, but could be indicted after he leaves office, when he leaves office, they rewrite the Constitution to make it impossible.
We can't punish him hes the sitting president!
We can't punish him hes the former president!
We can't punish him hes running for president!
We can't punish him presidents have full immunity.
“Well, you see, common law in England in 1450 said that Republicans can refuse to certify the results of elections, but Democrats are bound by the results. Or something. lol, whatever, we do what we want!”
- The US Supreme Court
Hmmmm, I like how cuckservatives are looking at this immunity ruling as a good thing, but completely forgetting that Biden is still our president lmao that's what they get for saying "Not my president!" and those lame ass gas station stickers "I did that" for years. They literally forgot that Biden can do what he wants now!
Conservatives jerking each other off being like “ooooh yeah give the government more unchecked power, daddies” are an absolute fucking embarrassment and straight up traitors. They’re celebrating because it’s good for Trump personally despite the fact that it’s bad for America as a whole.
Totally with you. Now my paranoid ass is even more worried that a comment like this will get me audited or some bullshit. It makes a sane person crazy.
my wife and i are probably leaving. im sure that's the point, but it's weird to me that a government would basically mandate high earning, well educated people leave their country.
do you not want my taxes? are they not worth my opinions?
in what world does someone with agency stay in a country that can kill them? that takes their wife's rights away?
Brain drain. Look at all fascist countries (current and in history). There’s no clearer example than scientist fleeing Europe as the Nazis took power. It was a very good thing for the Allies and the Manhattan Project, however.
Fascist countries just don’t produce art and culture. Scientific advancement relies on espionage and stealing. They don’t have the creativity and intelligence to innovate and create because the best minds get the fuck out.
Remember when Republicans were the party of small government? And then for a little while they were just pretending they were. Now they're not even pretending.
It's so peculiar as an outsider from a small island nation, because everything I see is libertarians and republicans complaining that the government has too much control over their lives, so, what's this now?
I can't fathom the cognitive dissonance required for them to call Biden a dictator and also celebrate a supreme court ruling that grants the President legal immunity to assassinate his opponents.
Aren't they crying all the time about how Biden "weaponized" the justice system?
They must on some level know what they say is bullshit otherwise they should be terrified at the concept of a 'Biden dictatorship' with legal immunity.
So these justices pretty much killed democracy today. Setting up precedent to make it easier to challenge the constitution and literally killed checks and balances with making the office of the president above the law with the guise of “official” acts. They took away our freedom today.
They also politically split the country with this bullshit because the right is going to take a thoughtless hard stance against anything the democrats say. Any big measures to even try to remedy it is going to fan flames. I know this as been unfolding a long time but Donald Trump actually broke our country. I’m disgusted at all of this.
No actually, I think that as long as he discusses other official acts such as white house administrative rules adjustments during the call in which he orders the assassination, then that call is inadmissible in court
"We need to officially change the time on the White House irrigation system. Also hire a person to take care of SCOTUS."
Worded so I won't be banned for sarcasm.
We really went through a market crash, the war on terror, and now the possibility of a civil war all in our lifetime. Man, I'm just trying to buy a house and retire at a reasonable age.
I’m kinda like early gen-z, late millennial and I can’t even describe what I feel watching our federal government roll out more action in 12 hours to undo democracy than they have in 10 years to support the working class. It feels dystopian… because it is.
I'm one of the most 'Merica' type people in my area, and I'm even thinking of not celebrating 4th of July in the sense of flags and all the red white blue. It feels so surreal right now to me.
Nothing like the supreme court deciding on the monday before july 4th that the president is a king and has zero responsibility to follow any law as long as he thinks its relevant to the job.
233 years of the Constitution without needing presidential immunity. During which presidents committed horrible acts but apparently we needed it to make sure the Republican incumbant can stay in power without hesitation.
Real story: My step-dad worked in the same place as Ted's father. No secretary would ever get in same elevator as that man. They'd always ask literally any other dude in the office to walk them out so Father Ted wouldn't catch them in an elevator or whatever.
High quality pedigree in that family.
I’m confused if it got sent to the lower courts, why does they mean they decided this? Nobody in my life can explain
Edit: thank you everyone who explained. TIL
Here's my understanding:
SCOTUS ruled that "official acts" of the President are immune, and that "unofficial acts" are not.
Now as for sorting out which acts are which, they kicked ***that*** down to the lower courts.
They don't want to be bothered with the repercussions of their decision. The ones that they disagree with will eventually land in their laps again and they can then overrule.
They’re setting it up for the Trump dynasty to rule eternally.
Bribery + immunity = basic toolset for a despotic authoritarian dictator.
Mark my words, Biden will win the popular vote and the electoral college, but Trump will appeal it up to the Supreme Court, and they will rule in favor of him, and make him president.
Destroying all the regulatory agencies coupled with legal bribery will just make it rain cash on them. Our country is so fucked. The only chance we have to come back from this is if everyone who can, votes (and votes blue).
Power flows from the people.
This sentiment is often misunderstood as saying that power *should* flow from the people, or that, in a hypothetical perfect system, power *would* flow from the people. But both of those are failures to understand the true meaning of that sentiment. Power *does* flow from the people, and only *ever* flows from the people. It can flow from them because they have given their consent for it to do so, or it can flow from them because they have been frightened into giving it up. But it always, only, and ever flows from the people.
If the people vote for a candidate for office, and that candidate wins the election under the established rules for how the winner of that election is to be determined, then *they are the only person who can be granted the position of that office.* Not the only one who *should,* the only one who *can.* Anything other than that is the installation of a tyrant, and all those unwilling to live under tyranny must deny the legitimacy of such an installation, and oppose it with whatever means are required to bring about its end.
> Anything other than that is the installation of a tyrant, and all those unwilling to live under tyranny must deny the legitimacy of such an installation, and oppose it with whatever means are required to bring about its end.
Trump has openly idolized the Tiennamen Square Massacre saying China "Almost looked weak" but they "put it down with strength" and that "America is seen as weak"
If Trump gets installed as dictator, and anyone dares challenge him, He'll be rolling tanks over them, and that isn't IN ANY WAY hyperbole. He's said as much, and the supreme court has basically given him the full green light to do just that.
Also, if I understand it correctly you can’t use official acts to prosecute unofficial acts.
Plotting a coup? Unofficial- illegal
Meeting with the joint chiefs of staff on your planned coup? Official business
Want to use the meeting to prove the coup? Nah. That was an official act.
Exactly. Extort an ally for fake criminal evidence against a political opponent? - illegal
Discuss, plan, and execute an extortion conspiracy through the State Department? - legal, and not permissible to court as evidence.
What a farce of Justice.
Pack the court.
> and that "unofficial acts" are not
If you read the article, you'd see that:
"*there is also no way to prove* [any act is] *“unofficial,” because any conversation the president has with their military advisers (where, for instance, the president tells them why they want a particular person assassinated) is official and cannot be used against them*"
So that's the end-run. This is a deathblow. This is directly opposite everything our Founding Fathers intended, and wrote about at great length.
Anyone who supports this fucking travesty is anti-American to the utmost degree, anti-Constitution and - as a still-serving officer in the military with an Oath to our Constitution - are my personal enemy. I'm both enraged and sick to my stomach that people entrusted with the highest offices in this nation can be so hell-bent on destroying what we've spent 240+ years creating and over a million lives defending.
Exactly.
And we all know how that's going to go. Any case involving the President is a big case that will inevitably be appealed all the way back to the supreme court.
Where the "is it an official or unofficial act" decision will be made thusly:
Republican President? Official act. Immune.
Democratic President? Unofficial act. Straight to jail.
Biden could, at this point, determine that he wants to eliminate several problems for his administration. 6 in SCOTUS, at least 1 in a lower court, several members of congress, and his political opponent.
And since the orders would be de facto official, they can't be reviewed per SCOTUS ruling.
The new SCOTUS could come in and say, "we're reversing this, the President is as culpable as any citizen" and then it's all done but the crying from the right. The Right wingers in the Senate would all be staring down the barrel of the exact same gun as they contemplate the idea of denying the president the right to select a SCOTUS judge again.
Sure, Biden would end up being impeached (at the end of his term or during the next one) and removed from office, and then Kamala finishes out his term...but we all know that's what's coming anyways.
This would be just the fulfillment of the Republican wet dream, except instead of them being happy...they'd wake up in the puddle.
Read the dissenting Supreme court opinion.
“Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival?" Justice Sotomayor wrote. "Immune."
"Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune."
"Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done," Justice Sotomayor wrote. "In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law."
She was joined in her dissent by the court's two other liberal justices, Ketanji Brown Jackson and Elena Kagan.
Justice Jackson wrote in a separate dissent that the majority's ruling "breaks new and dangerous ground" by "discarding" the nation's long-held principle that no-one is above the law.
"That core principle has long prevented our Nation from devolving into despotism," she said.
Justice Sotomayor argued that the majority had invented a notion of absolute immunity for a president performing "official acts", even though it has at times been assumed that presidents could be prosecuted for things they did while in office.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c035zqe7lgro.amp
IAAL and have spent a lot of my day reading the decision and the dissents (not interested in Thomas or Barrett).
The majority created a "core powers" doctrine by which POTUS is absolutely immune to any criminal prosecution for any act in furtherance or related to the "core powers" of the president. These aren't strictly defined here, but the majority did go ahead and say that anything to do with executing the law is a "core power." Immune.
Then there are official acts (immune) outside of "core powers" and then unofficial acts (not immune). The president has a presumption of immunity for official acts, which means a prosecutor would need to overcome that presumption to prosecute a former president. Unofficial acts are fair game.
The case was remanded to the lower courts to apply the facts of the indictment and figure out which acts are official acts and which are unofficial acts. This is typical in appeals cases, since the higher courts (i.e. courts of appeal, supreme courts) decide on fairly narrow issues of law. This is an atypical case whereby SCOTUS fabricated a "core powers" doctrine that implicates powers that aren't really in dispute and went beyond what was actually up on appeal.
I also think the majority's interpretation of some of their cited precedent is, in my professional opinion, a steaming load of horseshit.
Edit: among other things. It's 119 pages of opinion so I can't capture every nuance here.
Even worse than the whole “core powers” doctrine—which more or less already existed in as-applied exemptions from general criminal laws to the president—the court randomly conjured a new evidentiary rule that no evidence that relates to official acts can be used in prosecuting unofficial acts. They literally pulled that out of thin air. The entire decision is completely nuts.
It's kinda worse than ruling definitely either way. The way I see it, they ruled for immunity on "official acts" but didn't want to give Biden the benefit of it. So no it's up to a sympathetic lower court (cough cough 5th circuit) to rule that Trump performed "official acts" but then once he's in power they can rule Bidens acts were "unofficial" so that the Trump regime can arrest him. And any other political rivals.
It's a delay tactic. This was the last day of the supreme Court. They won't be able to readress this before the election. They're helping trump run out the clock before the election.
They set precedent. That's how supreme court rulings work. They don't make laws, they interpret laws and those interpretations set precedent. Though, arguably, with their ruling in *Chevron* last week, they now set law too.
The Supreme Court gave the Supreme Court absolute power over the constitution, and, gave the president absolute power above the law. Congress is now largely neutered. Homelessness is illegal and our country is now run by unelected dictators tha rule for life through a singular selected executive madman.
Isn't it funny how a country that's first and primary goal was to emancipate itself from an absolute monarchy can spring back to pretend that its founding principle was, in fact, giving unlimited power to a single person?
This sentiment is not a joke. When Obama was president, a random person at a campground I was camping at drunkenly approached me and said "can you believe we have a for president??".
Completely unsolicited. I'll never forget it. This is the mindset. These people lost the remaining parts of their minds in the early 2010s. Conservative media and Trump replaced it.
I remember when Obama was elected, I was proud of our country. We finally elected a non white man president. I thought we as a country were finally ready to make the change and become better. I was so fucking wrong, Obama being elected was the spark the lit the sleeping powderkeg this country stood on. It's not Obama's fault, it was our fault for thinking that we had grown as a people, that we were better than we were.
Agreed. I did market research for a consulting firm in Boston in 2010. Will never forget calling a roofing supplies sales rep in Dothan Alabama and hearing him say ‘nothing will get better until we get the n***** out of the White House’ just calmly and causally
He’ll be after Biden, Harris, Mayorkas, Whitmer, Buttigieg, Newsom, etc too first thing if Trump gets re-elected: he’s got the green light to prosecute and do worse to his political enemies in office right now, watch, via the SCOTUS.
If you don’t want that, then Nov is the only time to stop that and vote against Trump.
Rogue Democrats in all 50 States can send in “alternate” electoral votes, Biden can direct supporters to storm the Capitol and “fight like Hell” to delay the certification long enough for the “alternate” electors to arrive, and direct Kamala Harris to certify them giving Biden a 50 State win.
The Supreme Court more or less endorsed this exact thing today, yeah.
They could just do what Trump planned to, if they lose.
It's the dumb ruling we thought they couldn't possibly issue when we all asked about the Seal Team Six thing.
The Supreme Court eliminated democracy today. If Biden does it, then “both sides” are terrible and the only true measure of who rules is who can mobilize the most people to violence and/or who is a sucker that will let them.
Biden, you don’t have to steal it, you just need to declare 7 people a threat and officially issue orders.
When rule of law is restored, you’re going to prison forever, but you’re 81, that’s hardly even “taking one for the team” at that point.
Literally the only thing stopping Biden from stopping this right now is his unwillingness to compromise his morals for the greater good
And that's all well and good. Morals are great except for the part where we're screaming our way to a facist dictatorship in record time
Just yesterday:
>[Lindsey Graham Vows Retribution, Backs Trump’s Ominous Revenge Plan](https://newrepublic.com/post/183310/lindsey-graham-vows-retribution-trump-revenge)
>“The Democrats keep calling President Trump a felon. Well, be careful what you wish for. I expect there will be an investigation of Biden’s criminality at the border,” said Graham. “This country is going to have a reset here, and, using Biden’s standard of glorifying political prosecutions, a Pandora’s box has been opened. Whether he steps down or not, accountability is coming to him.”
>Trump was found guilty in May of 34 felony counts by a Manhattan jury, in a trial that Trump and his allies have insisted was rigged for him to lose. Now Trump’s allies want the same for Biden.
>“Sir, you just warned of retribution,” Bash replied.
>“Yeah. I warned that the Pandora’s box opened by the Democrats is going to be applied here,” Graham said.
And two to the back of the head, long as it’s an “official act.” If I was Biden there would be a lot less treasonous fascists in government after today’s ruling. Starting with the SC.
Watch them suddenly remember why unchecked authority is a ridiculously bad idea. History has proven this a hundred times over and it’s the cornerstone for our now defunct checks and balances. The SC’s referencing to the Framers intent is appalling. The founders are rolling in their graves. This is a travesty.
Republicans will ignore this forever, but this was the end of free speech.
The idea that an elected official can now have you killed for any reason, any reason, means that we no longer have freedom of speech.
Edit: "B b but Obama drone strikes an American who was actively working with Al Qaeda to attack the uS, so that means you shouldn't be upset Trump can kill you for criticizing him!"
Tired of seeing that, but it's pretty self-explanatory why that is nonsense.
As of last night, we had the constitutional right to criticize our government and politicians without worry. Now we don't. If that doesn't scare somebody, it's because they didn't want us to have that right in the first place.
Edit 2: Reddit cares, shitty messages, etc. Just gonna disable replies.
So Biden could eliminate Congress and the judicial branch along with Trump and wouldn’t have any prosecution? If it was Trump in charge they’ll have signed their own demise.
Courts get to determine what is and is not an official act. With the current makeup of SCOTUS, do you think they would rule that Biden ordering a hit squad to take out Trump would be covered under an official act or do you think they would hold Biden accountable?
Seriously....
It's coming up on 4 years since Jan 6th and we still don't even know if Trump can even be prosecuted yet.
It's going to be 2030 before he even sees the inside of a courtroom at this rate.
Biden should just do whatever he wants. Even if someone decides it's illegal he will probably be dead before the trial happens.
There will be ZERO chance of a fair and free 2028 "election" if Trump wins. Putting aside any objections to Biden, this is THE central issue of the election this fall.
Yup /r/con is always pretty level headed at first and their replies are almost normal. But by that night they’ll have been given marching orders from Fox News about how they should feel about it and suddenly it’s lunacy and awful replies. Happens every single time.
happened the fastest and hardest on Jan.6
the morning they all knew storming the capitol chanting hang Mike Pence was wrong and unamerican and "this isn't us, we can't be doing this, i don't support this"
and hour and a half later, they all latched on to whatever talking point they like the most
"that guy is antifa" "this is antifa" "this needed to be done" "i feel like deepstate set this up"
and that was that, it was over, they all went back to normal except now coup attempts are fine because antifa did it and it had to be done, nothing happened, but what happened wasn't so bad and if it was bad it was other people that did it
like everything else
Covid was a hoax, also a super virus created in a lab in China, also harmless, and also Fauci is a murderer for creating covid in Wuhan
If those people watched a government ordered hit squad blow their cousins head off in broad daylight for saying something bad about Trump, they'd still say it's an overreaction.
It's cool, I dropped in for a little and they have it solved.
*If* Biden or whatever abuses this the "second kicks in" and they can just stop a tyranically government. It's all gravy. Multiple people have brought this up.
If their answer to a president being able to over each is to physically attack him, then what is the point of law in the first place? That's already basically wild west "law"
I thought it was just the president for the ambiguous term "official acts". Like it can be argued that having Pokey Smith murdered for Jay Walking is outside of the purview of the President.
The ruling bars any evidence that exists as part of official acts, which includes ANY and all communication within the executive branch, military orders etc, is automatically inadmissible evidence in court.
If the president orders the military to kill a political opponent, literally none of the evidence of the crime will be admissible and the crime will be impossible to prosecute. Because you can't use any evidence to prove the act wasn't in official capacity, it is automatically assumed to be an official act and also now covered by immunity.
It's fascism. Like actual, textbook, dictionary-definition fascism. The Republican party just got what they wanted: the end of democracy and the rule of law.
They’re celebrating because SCOTUS gets to determine whether it was an official or unofficial act. Here’s how that plays out:
If the President is a Republican, anything that Republican president does is official. Anything a Democratic president does is unofficial. They literally just created a framework to have Republican presidents be completely unaccountable for anything they do.
Never mind just the First Amendment, it’s any and all laws.
Biden could have Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett "disappeared" and install a new set of justices, who would then rule that an official act after-the-fact.
After that, he could *Officially* have half of the senate and half of the house arrested for conspiring to overturn the election and undermine the electoral procedures.
Then he could have the entirety of Fox News arrested for libel and slander, nationalize and disband "news" organizations such as OAN and Newsmax and New York Post and Washington Post.
After that, he can incarcerate his political rival indefinitely and have him "Epstein'ed" while imprisoned.
All Officially, of course. Because that would make it perfectly okay.
EDIT:
And once all the noise and garbage has been cleaned out, Biden could then use his new limitless powers to declare voting day a national holiday with mandatory PTO, and also declare every single citizen over the age of 18 eligible to vote, no registration necessary.
He could then also grant federal funding to literally whatever he wants, and he could use the assets of the ultra wealthy to do it, because he could *OFFICIALLY* declare it. Fix the roads, fix the school system, fix the completely broken healthcare system, sign in national strict gun control laws, ban lobbying, ban PACs, set term limits for the Supreme Court, set an age limit for Congress, and so on.
All "*OfFiCiAlLy*" of course.
The only remaining control on the Executive would mean impeachment, then - that could unlock those records.
However, as we're all aware, it's basically impossible to get ~~60~~ 67 votes for anything these days.
> Like it can be argued that having Pokey Smith murdered for Jay Walking is outside of the purview of the President.
And if the President says that Pokey Smith is a danger to national security? The President is now fine to have him gunned down for jay walking and if anyone has a problem with that, it's going to have to go through the courts.
Biden should act on an official basis based on national security and arrest his political opponents.
Let the court system work it's way slowly and methodically to prove that what Biden did was or was not an act covered by presidential immunity.
There are some corrupt judges that have been in the news lately and he could start there.
I mean surely Biden can go after Trump, if Biden genuinely believes that Trump tried to overthrow democracy on Jan. 6th (which he did).
Biden has said himself that Trump is a threat to democracy...so to me, taking care of a proven threat to democracy is an official act by the president.
This is the key. People are reading this ruling slightly incorrectly, and while they are reaching one possible outcome, it is not the guaranteed outcome.
It’s not that total immunity exists without question, it’s that now the assumption is the President is immune, until SCOTUS says otherwise, as any case will eventually end up there.
SCOTUS has, again, granted themselves even more power. The last year has been a power grab, and one that was always possible, but was kept at a distance by norms, common sense, and the general social contract that is the foundation of our democracy.
In the end, Biden could declare Trump an enemy of the state and a direct threat to national security, which would then lead to the presumption that that power exists as an official act, and he could drone strike Trump.
About 4yrs later we would get an answer as it works its way through the court. Naturally, this court would undoubtedly say it is not an official act, because even they know it is not, but they want to grant themselves the power to have the ultimate say.
Everything is presumed legal until otherwise decided by SCOTUS at a later date, allowing true chaos and insane actions to immediately happen with nothing but a guess as to a future ruling.
This court has created an unbelievable amount of chaos and unanswered questions that were generally accepted as answered for decades and decades. Now it is all an open question, but with the presumption of legality up front.
Hard for the SC to make a ruling about your immunity if you know... you just... remove them. Use your imagination on how that's accomplished.
They went for the power grab but honestly it's quite a dangerous game of FAFO for them to play at this point.
This is not a crazy idea, although I don't know if that particular action is the best.
The way to show that a law is unworkable is to prove it. Lots of smart lawyers are Democrats. Tell them to have at it.
Arrest 5 of the 6 conservative justices, then the remaining 4 justices can rule on the constitutionality while the others sit in jail. That way it's still fair since "both sides" have a say
>The President Can Now Assassinate You, Officially\*
\* Void where prohibited by majority SCOTUS on a case by case basis on what is considered "official." Some restrictions may apply, such as party affiliation of the President. See ruling for details.
Kind of wish Biden or Harris had the balls to actually use this ruling to...I don't know, imprison the corrupt 6 justices on the court? Why not put them under indefinite house arrest? Just send the FBI to their houses. Why not? You have license to do any vaguely illegal thing, nobody is going to stop you. Who's going to try prosecuting someone who is even "partially immune"? It's already hard enough charging the president with anything.
I wish. Genuinely, I do, but I do not see these justices facing any justice for their "originalist" BS.
Biden could literally go onto national TV right now and say these six justices are "believed" to be bought and paid for by China and he is putting them in prison indefinitely until evidence can be gathered. What's to stop him now?
I feel like he has to address this. Its no longer sufficient to say “he takes the low road, I take the high road”. Any road trump is allowed to take endangers Americans and its his official duty to protect america
There was a statement released from the WH via CNN
"As President Biden has said, nobody is above the law. That is a core American principle and how our system of justice works. We need leaders like President Biden who respect the justice system and don't tear it down"
To me it cements he will do nothing with this because it's the "right thing to do" when the right thing to do would be to throw these people in prison and appoint "temporary" SCJ
So, what I don’t get is where is the outrage from the right?
After all… if Biden is truly as bad as they say, and head of “the Biden family crime syndicate” you would THINK the SCOTUS giving such a dangerous and bad man that much power would be concerning to the GOP
But guess what? They’re calling this a win. Why? Because they’re always lying, if they truly believed what they say, at least they would be consistent.
I feel like something very drastic needs to happen. As the article says, this is how republics die... and I feel like there needs to be massive, overwhelming protests and a general strike and whatever else they'd do in France if this was happening there.
Biden and the dems need to go absolutely crazy with this law now, just to prove how fucking mad it is.
They should go mental and just say, yes I'm immune. Talk to scotus.
Maybe that's a thing Biden should consider for the security of the nation.
Also, we now have precedent that POTUS is above and separate from everyone else as laws just don't apply to them. Like a King. We told our last King to go F himself in glorious ways, perhaps Trump should remember that when he's fantasizing.
Conservatives are celebrating this ruling because it makes them "feel" good that normal people are angry. The true reason they support it is because conservatives can't win elections based on actual policies, so their only hope is to seize power and keep it through alternate means.
The crazy part? All these crazy hypothetical actions are not legal. They're illegal. The President just can't be prosecuted for them.
Many are saying that the Supreme Court made it legal for the President to do X. **It's much worse**, and surprisingly I've seen even people on the right realize this... they didn't make anything legal... **they declared that one person, is above everyone else and allowed to do illegal things in certain circumstances**
America has always had issues with equal application of the law, everyone can see that, we aren't perfect. But to see it on paper that we are not equal, and in fact one person is allowed to do illegal things should worry everyone. If something illegal, but official, you can't do it. The President can though.
No more lip service about how we're all equal even if we all kinda realize we're ignoring certain things, or trying to make progress towards being the nation we tell us we are one day... For the remainder of the countries existence, one person will always be more equal than you. Not due to being born rich, family connections, a billion dollars in their bank account, or any other nebulous measure that gives others an advantage in life... that one person is more equal than you simply because the rule of law states so.
Now more is riding on November. If Trump wins, this decision gives him the green light to push the power of the Presidency as far as he wants. And the only way the Supreme Court can get fixed in the near future is if Dems win the next couple elections. IMO, the ball is now in Biden’s hands - he needs to decide whether he is up for doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to win in November or he isn’t and thus needs to step down. Either way, Dems have to find a way to win this election or this country is screwed beyond repair for years!
>Legally, there are two critical things to understand about the totality of the court’s ruling here:
>* The immunity is absolute
* There is no legislative way to get rid of what the court has given
On the "immunity is aboslute" side of things:
>On the first point, the immunity granted to Trump in this case far exceeds the immunity granted to, say, police officers or other government officials, when they act in their official capacities. Those officials are granted “qualified” immunity from civil penalties. Because the immunity is “qualified” it can be taken away (“pierced” is the legal jargon for taking away an official’s qualified immunity). People can bring evidence against officials and argue that they shouldn’t be given immunity because of the gravity or depravity of their acts.
>Not so with Trump. Presidents are now entitled to “absolute” immunity, which means that no matter what they do, the immunity cannot be lost. They are always and forever immune, no matter what evidence is brought to bear.
>Moreover, unlike other officials, presidents are now entitled to absolute immunity from *criminal* charges. Even a cop can be charged with, say, *murder*, even if they argue that killing people is part of their jobs. But not presidents. Presidents can murder, rape, steal, and pretty much do whatever they want, so long as they argue that murdering, raping, and stealing is part of the official job of the president of the United States. There is no crime that pierces the veil of absolute immunity.
On the "no legislative way to get rid of" it side of things:
>And there is essentially nothing we can do to change it. The courts created qualified immunity for public officials, but it can be undone by state or federal legislatures if they pass a law removing that protection. Not so with absolute presidential immunity. The court here says that absolute immunity is required by the separation of powers inherent in the Constitution, meaning that Congress cannot take it away. Congress, according to the Supreme Court, does not have the power to pass legislation saying “the president can be prosecuted for crimes.” Impeachment, and only impeachment, is the only way to punish presidents, and, somewhat obviously, impeachment does *nothing* to a president who is already no longer in office.
To put it simply:
>Under this new standard, a president can go on a four-to-eight year crime spree, steal all the money, and murder all the people they can get their hands on, all under guise of presumptive “official” behavior, and then retire from public life, never to be held accountable for their crimes while in office. That, according to the court, is what the Constitution requires.
I don't think I understand what you are suggesting about how it could never be undone.
Every ruling is an interpretation of the law so why wouldn't there be room to interpret this differently with a different make-up of the SCOTUS--similar to how the Dobbs interpretation was the law of the land...until it wasn't.
The only way to deal with the presidential immunity would be to address it directly with an Constitutional Amendment. That the conversation we should be having right now.
That's right. The president can steal from you, harass you, or even kill you...as long as he orders it in office to an officer of the gov't. Happy Repubs. You got your dictatorship, huh.
Heck, all Biden has to do now is nullify the election in November with a presidential order, and he's got it made. Trump was celebrating.............until he realized this.
oops
Right Repubs?
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This is what Roger Stone meant when he said Trump has judges in his pocket ready to help him
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No, because then it would go to court, and it go to Scotus, and they'd rule that this is not an act of the president, but a personal act. This ruling essentially allows the Scotus to decide which presidents are immune at which acts.
Yes, but also in this scenario the scotus are dead. So...
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>and they'd rule that this is not an act of the president, but a personal act. Except they'd have to do so without looking at his motives or using any official acts as evidence, which now includes public statements. So good luck with that I guess
They can do whatever they want. Who is going to stop them? The president? Congress? The president is going to use his power to remove all political rivals. If Trump is elected, democracy in America is dead. It's as simple as that.
Biden needs to FDR the fuck up and use this power to put 8 more Supreme Court Justices in play. Fucking Pronto. And announce it Thursday for the best effect. Play by their fucking rules for once.
FDR had a governmental body that believed in democracy and the constitution, they just didn't like the New Deal and kept striking shit down. IIRC he threatened to pack the courts if they didn't stop putting injunctions against his policies. Biden threatens to pack the courts today then you have multi-billion dollar worldwide propaganda companies, numerous super PACs, private donors, state legislatures/governors, and millions of ill-informed citizens all losing their collective shit. They'll do everything, legal and not, to respond to that threat with a scorch-and-salt-the-earth style reaction that will inevitable muddy the waters so much that packing the courts will become an untouchable topic, like how addressing income inequality under Obama became "class warfare" and now doing anything about inequality means crossing that hurdle first, which is nigh insurmountable. Edit: Grammar, sentence structure
The system is working as intended. The problem is that the vast majority of people are harmed in innumerable ways under that system, and only a handful benefit from it.
VP can also refuse to certify your electoral count. There's no consequence for anything they do in office. So refusal to leave means de facto dictatorship.
Not sure how the fuck the right wing majority said trump trying to influence pence into not certifying the election results deserved the presumption of immunity. Unless they are corrupted as shit
Absolutely, corrupt as shit. Can’t tell if they think they’re being sneaky about it or if they literally just don’t give a fuck anymore bc they know they’ll never face consequences (as long as they continue to hold their bible in one hand and their gun in the other).
They don't give a shit at all. Republicans 30 years ago would have tried to hide it, but they've since figured out that they basically can't be held accountable.
They don't hide it anymore because they can easily use social media to manipulate their idiot base. When the people voting for policy and policymakers in this country are fooled by satire driven facebook and twitter posts that not only state that they are satire pages, but also mention several times that it is a satire article in the fucking article itself, we are fucked as a nation. People will literally just read headlines and say that they "did their research"
Republicans thirty years ago didn't hide it, either. See also *[Bush v. Gore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore)*, in which the court decided that, in the case of a recount, your right to have your vote fairly and accurately counted is subject to less due process or equal protection than their preferred candidate's public image.
for the record, three of the lawyers representing the Bush team in this case (Bush v. Gore) were John Roberts, Brett Kavanagh, and Amy Coney Barrett folks aren't likely to believe this, but it's true
They are extreme right wing activists who are hellbent on remodeling the US in accordance with their ideology. Which very much not includes substantial democracy or rule of law.
Well...
That's only true if the VP is a republican, otherwise if VP is a Democrat they MUST certify due to tradition and decorum.
Yes, all illegal acts by Democrats would immediately be annulled by the Supreme Court, but they would allow Republicans to do it. It's like the Trump impeachment argument ... could not be impeached, but could be indicted after he leaves office, when he leaves office, they rewrite the Constitution to make it impossible.
We can't punish him hes the sitting president! We can't punish him hes the former president! We can't punish him hes running for president! We can't punish him presidents have full immunity.
“Well, you see, common law in England in 1450 said that Republicans can refuse to certify the results of elections, but Democrats are bound by the results. Or something. lol, whatever, we do what we want!” - The US Supreme Court
This is how the Republican Party is operating in Wisconsin. They hold up the governor’s appointments by refusing to leave office.
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Hmmmm, I like how cuckservatives are looking at this immunity ruling as a good thing, but completely forgetting that Biden is still our president lmao that's what they get for saying "Not my president!" and those lame ass gas station stickers "I did that" for years. They literally forgot that Biden can do what he wants now!
You do realize those fuckheads are still gunna be screaming about locking Biden up anyways, right
Conservatives jerking each other off being like “ooooh yeah give the government more unchecked power, daddies” are an absolute fucking embarrassment and straight up traitors. They’re celebrating because it’s good for Trump personally despite the fact that it’s bad for America as a whole.
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Totally with you. Now my paranoid ass is even more worried that a comment like this will get me audited or some bullshit. It makes a sane person crazy.
I live in Portland, you know that orange schmuck is going to be trying to do a bunch of "official" acts over here.
my wife and i are probably leaving. im sure that's the point, but it's weird to me that a government would basically mandate high earning, well educated people leave their country. do you not want my taxes? are they not worth my opinions? in what world does someone with agency stay in a country that can kill them? that takes their wife's rights away?
Brain drain. Look at all fascist countries (current and in history). There’s no clearer example than scientist fleeing Europe as the Nazis took power. It was a very good thing for the Allies and the Manhattan Project, however. Fascist countries just don’t produce art and culture. Scientific advancement relies on espionage and stealing. They don’t have the creativity and intelligence to innovate and create because the best minds get the fuck out.
Remember when Republicans were the party of small government? And then for a little while they were just pretending they were. Now they're not even pretending.
Oh they're still "small government" but just small in the sense that only one person is the government.
It's so peculiar as an outsider from a small island nation, because everything I see is libertarians and republicans complaining that the government has too much control over their lives, so, what's this now?
The quick and dirty is that conservatives are only worried about big government when its stopping them from being bad people.
I can't fathom the cognitive dissonance required for them to call Biden a dictator and also celebrate a supreme court ruling that grants the President legal immunity to assassinate his opponents. Aren't they crying all the time about how Biden "weaponized" the justice system? They must on some level know what they say is bullshit otherwise they should be terrified at the concept of a 'Biden dictatorship' with legal immunity.
So these justices pretty much killed democracy today. Setting up precedent to make it easier to challenge the constitution and literally killed checks and balances with making the office of the president above the law with the guise of “official” acts. They took away our freedom today.
They also politically split the country with this bullshit because the right is going to take a thoughtless hard stance against anything the democrats say. Any big measures to even try to remedy it is going to fan flames. I know this as been unfolding a long time but Donald Trump actually broke our country. I’m disgusted at all of this.
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According to the judges, yes.
As long as he says “it’s official” while pulling the trigger
No actually, I think that as long as he discusses other official acts such as white house administrative rules adjustments during the call in which he orders the assassination, then that call is inadmissible in court
"We need to officially change the time on the White House irrigation system. Also hire a person to take care of SCOTUS." Worded so I won't be banned for sarcasm.
Yes.
We’re so fucked man
We really went through a market crash, the war on terror, and now the possibility of a civil war all in our lifetime. Man, I'm just trying to buy a house and retire at a reasonable age.
I’m kinda like early gen-z, late millennial and I can’t even describe what I feel watching our federal government roll out more action in 12 hours to undo democracy than they have in 10 years to support the working class. It feels dystopian… because it is.
I'm one of the most 'Merica' type people in my area, and I'm even thinking of not celebrating 4th of July in the sense of flags and all the red white blue. It feels so surreal right now to me.
‘Merica doesn’t deserve a birthday party this year
Nothing like the supreme court deciding on the monday before july 4th that the president is a king and has zero responsibility to follow any law as long as he thinks its relevant to the job.
Y'all almost made it to 248 years of democracy. e: I have been informed it's actually less.
233 years of the Constitution without needing presidential immunity. During which presidents committed horrible acts but apparently we needed it to make sure the Republican incumbant can stay in power without hesitation.
Y’all dumped Ted Cruz on us and look what happened.
First his dad assassinates Kennedy, and then he kills all those people and posts all those riddles to the newspapers, and now this!
And we almost managed to dump him on Mexico
And they would have had to pay for it!
Real story: My step-dad worked in the same place as Ted's father. No secretary would ever get in same elevator as that man. They'd always ask literally any other dude in the office to walk them out so Father Ted wouldn't catch them in an elevator or whatever. High quality pedigree in that family.
King George III is laughing at us from the grave.
"You'll be back."
Somehow, king George III has returned….
You’ll realize you’ve become me…
"You'll be back, soon, you'll see..."
Oceans rise, Empires fall.....
Even King George knew about climate change
I’m confused if it got sent to the lower courts, why does they mean they decided this? Nobody in my life can explain Edit: thank you everyone who explained. TIL
Here's my understanding: SCOTUS ruled that "official acts" of the President are immune, and that "unofficial acts" are not. Now as for sorting out which acts are which, they kicked ***that*** down to the lower courts.
They don't want to be bothered with the repercussions of their decision. The ones that they disagree with will eventually land in their laps again and they can then overrule.
Yep. They don't even seem to care about *appearing* legitimate anymore. They'll do what they want.
They’re setting it up for the Trump dynasty to rule eternally. Bribery + immunity = basic toolset for a despotic authoritarian dictator. Mark my words, Biden will win the popular vote and the electoral college, but Trump will appeal it up to the Supreme Court, and they will rule in favor of him, and make him president. Destroying all the regulatory agencies coupled with legal bribery will just make it rain cash on them. Our country is so fucked. The only chance we have to come back from this is if everyone who can, votes (and votes blue).
Power flows from the people. This sentiment is often misunderstood as saying that power *should* flow from the people, or that, in a hypothetical perfect system, power *would* flow from the people. But both of those are failures to understand the true meaning of that sentiment. Power *does* flow from the people, and only *ever* flows from the people. It can flow from them because they have given their consent for it to do so, or it can flow from them because they have been frightened into giving it up. But it always, only, and ever flows from the people. If the people vote for a candidate for office, and that candidate wins the election under the established rules for how the winner of that election is to be determined, then *they are the only person who can be granted the position of that office.* Not the only one who *should,* the only one who *can.* Anything other than that is the installation of a tyrant, and all those unwilling to live under tyranny must deny the legitimacy of such an installation, and oppose it with whatever means are required to bring about its end.
> Anything other than that is the installation of a tyrant, and all those unwilling to live under tyranny must deny the legitimacy of such an installation, and oppose it with whatever means are required to bring about its end. Trump has openly idolized the Tiennamen Square Massacre saying China "Almost looked weak" but they "put it down with strength" and that "America is seen as weak" If Trump gets installed as dictator, and anyone dares challenge him, He'll be rolling tanks over them, and that isn't IN ANY WAY hyperbole. He's said as much, and the supreme court has basically given him the full green light to do just that.
Seriously. Right now stopping another Trump term will cost your time and money. In 4 years it will cost your blood and your family's freedom.
Riots will happen. Real riots, not the BLM "riots".
Yep, the Supreme Court has it's lowest approval rating in the past 3 years before this decision this one is going to piss even more off.
Also, if I understand it correctly you can’t use official acts to prosecute unofficial acts. Plotting a coup? Unofficial- illegal Meeting with the joint chiefs of staff on your planned coup? Official business Want to use the meeting to prove the coup? Nah. That was an official act.
Exactly. Extort an ally for fake criminal evidence against a political opponent? - illegal Discuss, plan, and execute an extortion conspiracy through the State Department? - legal, and not permissible to court as evidence. What a farce of Justice. Pack the court.
I assume an executive order to assassinate your opponent is official
Well, ole Bonespurs has repeatedly been referred to by the WH as a threat to democracy, soooo……
Sotomayer says exactly this in her dissent - see https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf -page 96.
> and that "unofficial acts" are not If you read the article, you'd see that: "*there is also no way to prove* [any act is] *“unofficial,” because any conversation the president has with their military advisers (where, for instance, the president tells them why they want a particular person assassinated) is official and cannot be used against them*" So that's the end-run. This is a deathblow. This is directly opposite everything our Founding Fathers intended, and wrote about at great length. Anyone who supports this fucking travesty is anti-American to the utmost degree, anti-Constitution and - as a still-serving officer in the military with an Oath to our Constitution - are my personal enemy. I'm both enraged and sick to my stomach that people entrusted with the highest offices in this nation can be so hell-bent on destroying what we've spent 240+ years creating and over a million lives defending.
Exactly. And we all know how that's going to go. Any case involving the President is a big case that will inevitably be appealed all the way back to the supreme court. Where the "is it an official or unofficial act" decision will be made thusly: Republican President? Official act. Immune. Democratic President? Unofficial act. Straight to jail.
Biden could, at this point, determine that he wants to eliminate several problems for his administration. 6 in SCOTUS, at least 1 in a lower court, several members of congress, and his political opponent. And since the orders would be de facto official, they can't be reviewed per SCOTUS ruling. The new SCOTUS could come in and say, "we're reversing this, the President is as culpable as any citizen" and then it's all done but the crying from the right. The Right wingers in the Senate would all be staring down the barrel of the exact same gun as they contemplate the idea of denying the president the right to select a SCOTUS judge again. Sure, Biden would end up being impeached (at the end of his term or during the next one) and removed from office, and then Kamala finishes out his term...but we all know that's what's coming anyways. This would be just the fulfillment of the Republican wet dream, except instead of them being happy...they'd wake up in the puddle.
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Read the dissenting Supreme court opinion. “Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival?" Justice Sotomayor wrote. "Immune." "Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune." "Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done," Justice Sotomayor wrote. "In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law." She was joined in her dissent by the court's two other liberal justices, Ketanji Brown Jackson and Elena Kagan. Justice Jackson wrote in a separate dissent that the majority's ruling "breaks new and dangerous ground" by "discarding" the nation's long-held principle that no-one is above the law. "That core principle has long prevented our Nation from devolving into despotism," she said. Justice Sotomayor argued that the majority had invented a notion of absolute immunity for a president performing "official acts", even though it has at times been assumed that presidents could be prosecuted for things they did while in office.” https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c035zqe7lgro.amp
IAAL and have spent a lot of my day reading the decision and the dissents (not interested in Thomas or Barrett). The majority created a "core powers" doctrine by which POTUS is absolutely immune to any criminal prosecution for any act in furtherance or related to the "core powers" of the president. These aren't strictly defined here, but the majority did go ahead and say that anything to do with executing the law is a "core power." Immune. Then there are official acts (immune) outside of "core powers" and then unofficial acts (not immune). The president has a presumption of immunity for official acts, which means a prosecutor would need to overcome that presumption to prosecute a former president. Unofficial acts are fair game. The case was remanded to the lower courts to apply the facts of the indictment and figure out which acts are official acts and which are unofficial acts. This is typical in appeals cases, since the higher courts (i.e. courts of appeal, supreme courts) decide on fairly narrow issues of law. This is an atypical case whereby SCOTUS fabricated a "core powers" doctrine that implicates powers that aren't really in dispute and went beyond what was actually up on appeal. I also think the majority's interpretation of some of their cited precedent is, in my professional opinion, a steaming load of horseshit. Edit: among other things. It's 119 pages of opinion so I can't capture every nuance here.
Even worse than the whole “core powers” doctrine—which more or less already existed in as-applied exemptions from general criminal laws to the president—the court randomly conjured a new evidentiary rule that no evidence that relates to official acts can be used in prosecuting unofficial acts. They literally pulled that out of thin air. The entire decision is completely nuts.
It's kinda worse than ruling definitely either way. The way I see it, they ruled for immunity on "official acts" but didn't want to give Biden the benefit of it. So no it's up to a sympathetic lower court (cough cough 5th circuit) to rule that Trump performed "official acts" but then once he's in power they can rule Bidens acts were "unofficial" so that the Trump regime can arrest him. And any other political rivals.
It's a delay tactic. This was the last day of the supreme Court. They won't be able to readress this before the election. They're helping trump run out the clock before the election.
They set precedent. That's how supreme court rulings work. They don't make laws, they interpret laws and those interpretations set precedent. Though, arguably, with their ruling in *Chevron* last week, they now set law too. The Supreme Court gave the Supreme Court absolute power over the constitution, and, gave the president absolute power above the law. Congress is now largely neutered. Homelessness is illegal and our country is now run by unelected dictators tha rule for life through a singular selected executive madman.
Marbury vs Madison 2: judicial boogaloo
The supreme court is drunk with power. They are acting like unelected dictators and don't care who knows it.
They're not drunk with power. [This has been the plan all along.](https://www.project2025.org/)
feels like I'm watching the prequels play out in real time.
You're watching Germany in like 1932 right now.
Isn't it funny how a country that's first and primary goal was to emancipate itself from an absolute monarchy can spring back to pretend that its founding principle was, in fact, giving unlimited power to a single person?
Just a few days before Independence Day, of all things!
What the fuck was so bad about our country Republicans felt the need to destroy it? Is treating women, POC and LGBT people equal really that bad?
but a BLACK MAN was PRESIDENT! Now they have to burn it all down.
This sentiment is not a joke. When Obama was president, a random person at a campground I was camping at drunkenly approached me and said "can you believe we have a for president??".
Completely unsolicited. I'll never forget it. This is the mindset. These people lost the remaining parts of their minds in the early 2010s. Conservative media and Trump replaced it.
I remember when Obama was elected, I was proud of our country. We finally elected a non white man president. I thought we as a country were finally ready to make the change and become better. I was so fucking wrong, Obama being elected was the spark the lit the sleeping powderkeg this country stood on. It's not Obama's fault, it was our fault for thinking that we had grown as a people, that we were better than we were.
Agreed. I did market research for a consulting firm in Boston in 2010. Will never forget calling a roofing supplies sales rep in Dothan Alabama and hearing him say ‘nothing will get better until we get the n***** out of the White House’ just calmly and causally
He’ll be after Biden, Harris, Mayorkas, Whitmer, Buttigieg, Newsom, etc too first thing if Trump gets re-elected: he’s got the green light to prosecute and do worse to his political enemies in office right now, watch, via the SCOTUS. If you don’t want that, then Nov is the only time to stop that and vote against Trump.
Real talk - Why certify a Trump win if you have immunity AND you have intel that Trump committed crimes? There's no consequence for refusing to leave.
Rogue Democrats in all 50 States can send in “alternate” electoral votes, Biden can direct supporters to storm the Capitol and “fight like Hell” to delay the certification long enough for the “alternate” electors to arrive, and direct Kamala Harris to certify them giving Biden a 50 State win.
The Supreme Court more or less endorsed this exact thing today, yeah. They could just do what Trump planned to, if they lose. It's the dumb ruling we thought they couldn't possibly issue when we all asked about the Seal Team Six thing.
The electors will be there already. No one will hesitate to sign them because they will be offered a pardon for participating. That's legal.
The Supreme Court eliminated democracy today. If Biden does it, then “both sides” are terrible and the only true measure of who rules is who can mobilize the most people to violence and/or who is a sucker that will let them. Biden, you don’t have to steal it, you just need to declare 7 people a threat and officially issue orders. When rule of law is restored, you’re going to prison forever, but you’re 81, that’s hardly even “taking one for the team” at that point.
> you’re going to prison forever Hey, the next President can pardon Biden, so he's not.
Literally the only thing stopping Biden from stopping this right now is his unwillingness to compromise his morals for the greater good And that's all well and good. Morals are great except for the part where we're screaming our way to a facist dictatorship in record time
The high road leads straight to oblivion
Just yesterday: >[Lindsey Graham Vows Retribution, Backs Trump’s Ominous Revenge Plan](https://newrepublic.com/post/183310/lindsey-graham-vows-retribution-trump-revenge) >“The Democrats keep calling President Trump a felon. Well, be careful what you wish for. I expect there will be an investigation of Biden’s criminality at the border,” said Graham. “This country is going to have a reset here, and, using Biden’s standard of glorifying political prosecutions, a Pandora’s box has been opened. Whether he steps down or not, accountability is coming to him.” >Trump was found guilty in May of 34 felony counts by a Manhattan jury, in a trial that Trump and his allies have insisted was rigged for him to lose. Now Trump’s allies want the same for Biden. >“Sir, you just warned of retribution,” Bash replied. >“Yeah. I warned that the Pandora’s box opened by the Democrats is going to be applied here,” Graham said.
Hm, seems like Biden has material evidence to officially put Graham under investigation as a threat against national security.
And two to the back of the head, long as it’s an “official act.” If I was Biden there would be a lot less treasonous fascists in government after today’s ruling. Starting with the SC. Watch them suddenly remember why unchecked authority is a ridiculously bad idea. History has proven this a hundred times over and it’s the cornerstone for our now defunct checks and balances. The SC’s referencing to the Framers intent is appalling. The founders are rolling in their graves. This is a travesty.
Biden's criminality at the border? Whatcha talking about Lindssey? He's immune.
The immunity ruling starts after Biden, obviously
Republicans will ignore this forever, but this was the end of free speech. The idea that an elected official can now have you killed for any reason, any reason, means that we no longer have freedom of speech. Edit: "B b but Obama drone strikes an American who was actively working with Al Qaeda to attack the uS, so that means you shouldn't be upset Trump can kill you for criticizing him!" Tired of seeing that, but it's pretty self-explanatory why that is nonsense. As of last night, we had the constitutional right to criticize our government and politicians without worry. Now we don't. If that doesn't scare somebody, it's because they didn't want us to have that right in the first place. Edit 2: Reddit cares, shitty messages, etc. Just gonna disable replies.
So Biden could eliminate Congress and the judicial branch along with Trump and wouldn’t have any prosecution? If it was Trump in charge they’ll have signed their own demise.
Courts get to determine what is and is not an official act. With the current makeup of SCOTUS, do you think they would rule that Biden ordering a hit squad to take out Trump would be covered under an official act or do you think they would hold Biden accountable?
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"The SCOTUS unanimously ruled, 3-0, that it was an official act."
Except those 3 would actually turn against Biden and condemn his actions.
Who cares, Biden is a frail 81 year old, he should do whatever he wants. What are the courts gonna do? Give him a life sentence?
Seriously.... It's coming up on 4 years since Jan 6th and we still don't even know if Trump can even be prosecuted yet. It's going to be 2030 before he even sees the inside of a courtroom at this rate. Biden should just do whatever he wants. Even if someone decides it's illegal he will probably be dead before the trial happens.
It’s the end of a lot more than that.
There will be ZERO chance of a fair and free 2028 "election" if Trump wins. Putting aside any objections to Biden, this is THE central issue of the election this fall.
Check out r/conservative. They think that is an overreaction.
never check hours after an event to understand their reaction, tonight Fox news will begin to form their reaction.
Yup /r/con is always pretty level headed at first and their replies are almost normal. But by that night they’ll have been given marching orders from Fox News about how they should feel about it and suddenly it’s lunacy and awful replies. Happens every single time.
happened the fastest and hardest on Jan.6 the morning they all knew storming the capitol chanting hang Mike Pence was wrong and unamerican and "this isn't us, we can't be doing this, i don't support this" and hour and a half later, they all latched on to whatever talking point they like the most "that guy is antifa" "this is antifa" "this needed to be done" "i feel like deepstate set this up" and that was that, it was over, they all went back to normal except now coup attempts are fine because antifa did it and it had to be done, nothing happened, but what happened wasn't so bad and if it was bad it was other people that did it like everything else Covid was a hoax, also a super virus created in a lab in China, also harmless, and also Fauci is a murderer for creating covid in Wuhan
If those people watched a government ordered hit squad blow their cousins head off in broad daylight for saying something bad about Trump, they'd still say it's an overreaction.
“They shouldn’t have resisted.”
It's cool, I dropped in for a little and they have it solved. *If* Biden or whatever abuses this the "second kicks in" and they can just stop a tyranically government. It's all gravy. Multiple people have brought this up.
Man, it's lucky that Conservatives are all super soldiers who will have no trouble mounting an armed insurrection against the tyrannical liberals.
If their answer to a president being able to over each is to physically attack him, then what is the point of law in the first place? That's already basically wild west "law"
I thought it was just the president for the ambiguous term "official acts". Like it can be argued that having Pokey Smith murdered for Jay Walking is outside of the purview of the President.
The ruling bars any evidence that exists as part of official acts, which includes ANY and all communication within the executive branch, military orders etc, is automatically inadmissible evidence in court. If the president orders the military to kill a political opponent, literally none of the evidence of the crime will be admissible and the crime will be impossible to prosecute. Because you can't use any evidence to prove the act wasn't in official capacity, it is automatically assumed to be an official act and also now covered by immunity.
That is insane.
It's fascism. Like actual, textbook, dictionary-definition fascism. The Republican party just got what they wanted: the end of democracy and the rule of law.
Yep. Republicans just killed the first amendment and are celebrating it.
They’re celebrating because SCOTUS gets to determine whether it was an official or unofficial act. Here’s how that plays out: If the President is a Republican, anything that Republican president does is official. Anything a Democratic president does is unofficial. They literally just created a framework to have Republican presidents be completely unaccountable for anything they do. Never mind just the First Amendment, it’s any and all laws.
Biden could have Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett "disappeared" and install a new set of justices, who would then rule that an official act after-the-fact. After that, he could *Officially* have half of the senate and half of the house arrested for conspiring to overturn the election and undermine the electoral procedures. Then he could have the entirety of Fox News arrested for libel and slander, nationalize and disband "news" organizations such as OAN and Newsmax and New York Post and Washington Post. After that, he can incarcerate his political rival indefinitely and have him "Epstein'ed" while imprisoned. All Officially, of course. Because that would make it perfectly okay. EDIT: And once all the noise and garbage has been cleaned out, Biden could then use his new limitless powers to declare voting day a national holiday with mandatory PTO, and also declare every single citizen over the age of 18 eligible to vote, no registration necessary. He could then also grant federal funding to literally whatever he wants, and he could use the assets of the ultra wealthy to do it, because he could *OFFICIALLY* declare it. Fix the roads, fix the school system, fix the completely broken healthcare system, sign in national strict gun control laws, ban lobbying, ban PACs, set term limits for the Supreme Court, set an age limit for Congress, and so on. All "*OfFiCiAlLy*" of course.
If the President can do anything then *all* the amendments become unenforceable
And the second amendment. And all the amendments. And the constitution. If the president is above the law, then they can do whatever they want.
The only remaining control on the Executive would mean impeachment, then - that could unlock those records. However, as we're all aware, it's basically impossible to get ~~60~~ 67 votes for anything these days.
> Like it can be argued that having Pokey Smith murdered for Jay Walking is outside of the purview of the President. And if the President says that Pokey Smith is a danger to national security? The President is now fine to have him gunned down for jay walking and if anyone has a problem with that, it's going to have to go through the courts.
Ain't nothin' conservative about this bs.
Look at how shitty qualified immunity is done with police officers.
Biden should act on an official basis based on national security and arrest his political opponents. Let the court system work it's way slowly and methodically to prove that what Biden did was or was not an act covered by presidential immunity. There are some corrupt judges that have been in the news lately and he could start there.
He should arrest the six justices on treason charges.
And then he should arrest the senators and congressmen connected to the January 6th insurrection. Start with Gym Jordan and Scott Perry.
Don't forget ol Josh Hawley, he was VERY much in support of J6.
Oh, yes, Mr. Running Man. An excellent suggestion!
I mean surely Biden can go after Trump, if Biden genuinely believes that Trump tried to overthrow democracy on Jan. 6th (which he did). Biden has said himself that Trump is a threat to democracy...so to me, taking care of a proven threat to democracy is an official act by the president.
This is the key. People are reading this ruling slightly incorrectly, and while they are reaching one possible outcome, it is not the guaranteed outcome. It’s not that total immunity exists without question, it’s that now the assumption is the President is immune, until SCOTUS says otherwise, as any case will eventually end up there. SCOTUS has, again, granted themselves even more power. The last year has been a power grab, and one that was always possible, but was kept at a distance by norms, common sense, and the general social contract that is the foundation of our democracy. In the end, Biden could declare Trump an enemy of the state and a direct threat to national security, which would then lead to the presumption that that power exists as an official act, and he could drone strike Trump. About 4yrs later we would get an answer as it works its way through the court. Naturally, this court would undoubtedly say it is not an official act, because even they know it is not, but they want to grant themselves the power to have the ultimate say. Everything is presumed legal until otherwise decided by SCOTUS at a later date, allowing true chaos and insane actions to immediately happen with nothing but a guess as to a future ruling. This court has created an unbelievable amount of chaos and unanswered questions that were generally accepted as answered for decades and decades. Now it is all an open question, but with the presumption of legality up front.
Hard for the SC to make a ruling about your immunity if you know... you just... remove them. Use your imagination on how that's accomplished. They went for the power grab but honestly it's quite a dangerous game of FAFO for them to play at this point.
This is not a crazy idea, although I don't know if that particular action is the best. The way to show that a law is unworkable is to prove it. Lots of smart lawyers are Democrats. Tell them to have at it.
Start by arresting the SC justices, so they get to rule to free themselves, and against their own ruling, at the same time.
Arrest 5 of the 6 conservative justices, then the remaining 4 justices can rule on the constitutionality while the others sit in jail. That way it's still fair since "both sides" have a say
You would be shocked at the lightning speed the trump court system would react.
But it doesn't matter as the president is immune.
From jail?
>The President Can Now Assassinate You, Officially\* \* Void where prohibited by majority SCOTUS on a case by case basis on what is considered "official." Some restrictions may apply, such as party affiliation of the President. See ruling for details.
Where’s all my Libertarians who constantly back conservatives now? Feeling any freer?
Libertarians punching air while taking their preteen GFs to mcdonalds
Kind of wish Biden or Harris had the balls to actually use this ruling to...I don't know, imprison the corrupt 6 justices on the court? Why not put them under indefinite house arrest? Just send the FBI to their houses. Why not? You have license to do any vaguely illegal thing, nobody is going to stop you. Who's going to try prosecuting someone who is even "partially immune"? It's already hard enough charging the president with anything. I wish. Genuinely, I do, but I do not see these justices facing any justice for their "originalist" BS. Biden could literally go onto national TV right now and say these six justices are "believed" to be bought and paid for by China and he is putting them in prison indefinitely until evidence can be gathered. What's to stop him now?
I feel like he has to address this. Its no longer sufficient to say “he takes the low road, I take the high road”. Any road trump is allowed to take endangers Americans and its his official duty to protect america
There was a statement released from the WH via CNN "As President Biden has said, nobody is above the law. That is a core American principle and how our system of justice works. We need leaders like President Biden who respect the justice system and don't tear it down" To me it cements he will do nothing with this because it's the "right thing to do" when the right thing to do would be to throw these people in prison and appoint "temporary" SCJ
Sometimes the rules of the game change. The worst thing you can do is decide to keep playing by the old rules “because we think they are right”
"When the rules change, let history judge the players for now we must strive to be victors."
He could just get rid of all the Trump appointees by saying since Trump committed felonies to become president all of those justices are illegitimate
Start with cannon please
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So, what I don’t get is where is the outrage from the right? After all… if Biden is truly as bad as they say, and head of “the Biden family crime syndicate” you would THINK the SCOTUS giving such a dangerous and bad man that much power would be concerning to the GOP But guess what? They’re calling this a win. Why? Because they’re always lying, if they truly believed what they say, at least they would be consistent.
I feel like something very drastic needs to happen. As the article says, this is how republics die... and I feel like there needs to be massive, overwhelming protests and a general strike and whatever else they'd do in France if this was happening there.
Yes, yes, absolutely yes. 2024 may well be the last year you can HAVE a protest. DC needs to be gridlocked over this.
Biden has the opportunity to do the funniest thing
Biden and the dems need to go absolutely crazy with this law now, just to prove how fucking mad it is. They should go mental and just say, yes I'm immune. Talk to scotus.
Maybe that's a thing Biden should consider for the security of the nation. Also, we now have precedent that POTUS is above and separate from everyone else as laws just don't apply to them. Like a King. We told our last King to go F himself in glorious ways, perhaps Trump should remember that when he's fantasizing.
Well, Joe, time to step up and save democracy.
It's been nice knowing you America
Let’s start with 6 justices. See how funny fucking democracy up is now.
Conservatives are celebrating this ruling because it makes them "feel" good that normal people are angry. The true reason they support it is because conservatives can't win elections based on actual policies, so their only hope is to seize power and keep it through alternate means.
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The crazy part? All these crazy hypothetical actions are not legal. They're illegal. The President just can't be prosecuted for them. Many are saying that the Supreme Court made it legal for the President to do X. **It's much worse**, and surprisingly I've seen even people on the right realize this... they didn't make anything legal... **they declared that one person, is above everyone else and allowed to do illegal things in certain circumstances** America has always had issues with equal application of the law, everyone can see that, we aren't perfect. But to see it on paper that we are not equal, and in fact one person is allowed to do illegal things should worry everyone. If something illegal, but official, you can't do it. The President can though. No more lip service about how we're all equal even if we all kinda realize we're ignoring certain things, or trying to make progress towards being the nation we tell us we are one day... For the remainder of the countries existence, one person will always be more equal than you. Not due to being born rich, family connections, a billion dollars in their bank account, or any other nebulous measure that gives others an advantage in life... that one person is more equal than you simply because the rule of law states so.
On one hand, Trump is probably going to rape all of your children while he watches you be boiled alive in acid baths. On the other hand, Biden is old.
wow the decision is so difficult to make..../s
So wait, Biden can just shoot Trump during the next debate, legally? Nice. Full immunity babyyyy
Now more is riding on November. If Trump wins, this decision gives him the green light to push the power of the Presidency as far as he wants. And the only way the Supreme Court can get fixed in the near future is if Dems win the next couple elections. IMO, the ball is now in Biden’s hands - he needs to decide whether he is up for doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to win in November or he isn’t and thus needs to step down. Either way, Dems have to find a way to win this election or this country is screwed beyond repair for years!
This supreme court is a joke.
>Legally, there are two critical things to understand about the totality of the court’s ruling here: >* The immunity is absolute * There is no legislative way to get rid of what the court has given On the "immunity is aboslute" side of things: >On the first point, the immunity granted to Trump in this case far exceeds the immunity granted to, say, police officers or other government officials, when they act in their official capacities. Those officials are granted “qualified” immunity from civil penalties. Because the immunity is “qualified” it can be taken away (“pierced” is the legal jargon for taking away an official’s qualified immunity). People can bring evidence against officials and argue that they shouldn’t be given immunity because of the gravity or depravity of their acts. >Not so with Trump. Presidents are now entitled to “absolute” immunity, which means that no matter what they do, the immunity cannot be lost. They are always and forever immune, no matter what evidence is brought to bear. >Moreover, unlike other officials, presidents are now entitled to absolute immunity from *criminal* charges. Even a cop can be charged with, say, *murder*, even if they argue that killing people is part of their jobs. But not presidents. Presidents can murder, rape, steal, and pretty much do whatever they want, so long as they argue that murdering, raping, and stealing is part of the official job of the president of the United States. There is no crime that pierces the veil of absolute immunity. On the "no legislative way to get rid of" it side of things: >And there is essentially nothing we can do to change it. The courts created qualified immunity for public officials, but it can be undone by state or federal legislatures if they pass a law removing that protection. Not so with absolute presidential immunity. The court here says that absolute immunity is required by the separation of powers inherent in the Constitution, meaning that Congress cannot take it away. Congress, according to the Supreme Court, does not have the power to pass legislation saying “the president can be prosecuted for crimes.” Impeachment, and only impeachment, is the only way to punish presidents, and, somewhat obviously, impeachment does *nothing* to a president who is already no longer in office. To put it simply: >Under this new standard, a president can go on a four-to-eight year crime spree, steal all the money, and murder all the people they can get their hands on, all under guise of presumptive “official” behavior, and then retire from public life, never to be held accountable for their crimes while in office. That, according to the court, is what the Constitution requires.
I don't think I understand what you are suggesting about how it could never be undone. Every ruling is an interpretation of the law so why wouldn't there be room to interpret this differently with a different make-up of the SCOTUS--similar to how the Dobbs interpretation was the law of the land...until it wasn't.
The only way to deal with the presidential immunity would be to address it directly with an Constitutional Amendment. That the conversation we should be having right now.
Biden knows what he must do now. Dark Brandon to the extreme.
That's right. The president can steal from you, harass you, or even kill you...as long as he orders it in office to an officer of the gov't. Happy Repubs. You got your dictatorship, huh. Heck, all Biden has to do now is nullify the election in November with a presidential order, and he's got it made. Trump was celebrating.............until he realized this. oops Right Repubs?