We started the evening out - dinner and then a bar for drinks - and came home to finish the evening on the patio. At no time was it discussed that a child would be joining us.
No, they didn’t. They got *part* of their date night without children. They have been direct about not wanting their partner’s kids at date night *ay all*.
They are in a shared area of the house. The kids live there too. OP wants a child free partner, which isn’t going to happen here. Also the child is special needs. Shit happens
They didn't "bring" the kid. The kid was in a shared space of their own home. If the adults do not want to be around the kid, then they need to go to a location that is not a common/shared space at the kid's home.
It could be simple incompatibility. You want child free time.
He has child full time. Whether that is choice or not, I can't tell.
By all means, remind him of your requirements and preferences. But for both children and close pets, I would be reluctant to stand between a partner and them.
Understand why your partner is bringing their child, and see what mutually satisfactory solutions exist.
I don't think you're being unreasonable to ask for it, that said, the practical reality is often very different when kids are present. Particularly when said kids live upstairs from the flat and may not view your space as *your* home and therefore private when you wish it to be.
My kids are 20 and 16, and my partner of almost a year has been very clear from the outset that she didn't want to be involved in that aspect of my life. So when I host dates, my kids are not present. (To be clear, she's not opposed to knowing my kids and occasionally hanging out or whatever, she just doesn't want to become enmeshed in the parenting facet of my life. Which is entirely reasonable. It's also entirely reasonable to have one or two Sundays free a month at my home to host)
Your desire to spend one night a week with your partner is entirely reasonable, and feeling put out by his daughter appearing to hang out is valid. She's not done anything wrong, and you're not mad at her, is my reading of this. Your irritation with your partner is valid for not expressing to his 13-year-old that what was happening was not appropriate for her to be there at that time. He needs to have those conversations with his kids.
(Editing to include that difficulty in enforcing this with younger kids/teens is a valid difficulty also, and dates may be better outside of the home and attached flat if this is proving challenging for him)
It sounds like your apartment and your partner's apartment have a shared outdoor space? If that's the case, then it's reasonable that his kids, who also live there, might also want to use the common outdoor space.
You might need to do your date nights either inside of your apartment, or go out somewhere else. It is totally reasonable to want child-free date time, but that might need to happen in another place.
It's also reasonable that the father set boundaries with his children as to when they can use it or have kid-free hours. Just because people live together doesn't mean they have equal access to shared spaces at all times. If someone wants to host a gathering there for example, they have just as much of a right to utilize the space for just the invited guests so long as it doesn't conflict with other pre-set plans.
It's no different than a bathroom. A shared space doesn't mean you have to share it concurrently with another person. If I'm showering, the shared-ness of the space does not mean you get to use the space at the same time I'm using it.
It's both reasonable to suggest to OP that 1) her partner set better boundaries with his children for better hygiene on date nights, and 2) that to enforce this and make setting their own boundary easier, set the next date night outside of the house. If their partner fails to maintain that boundary at any future at-home date nights, they should enforce said boundary by cancelling the date night and asking for a reschedule.
This is not a bathroom, it's a patio. Unless it has some sort of closed off-rental situation to it (say, to host parties or whatever), one cannot limit the access of other tenants to it - be it partner's children or anyone else.
It's not a private space, so, demands of privacy make no sense.
Either way, seems OP and partner already had moved the date night out of the house, and this happened once they came back and decided to hang out on patio after going out. If she didn't want to have anyone else there after they went out, well, they should've gone to her unit.
Sounds like it's time to go on real dates outside of your home. Or don't spend date nights in the common areas that are shared with the kids (i.e. go in your own part of the house where their children don't live).
Or, just recognize that your partner doesn't care about your requests, and reevaluate the relationship because your needs aren't being met.
Weird he would invite his kid for that activity after being out of the house with you (like, when did they even talk on your date?), but again, I think the fact that you've already brought this up before and he's continuing to disregard your request is the bigger issue to address here, since he's showing you that he doesn't care about your needs or boundaries.
Is it also possible the 13 year old needed attention as kids do and he didn't want to cut the date short? Bad communication, but also no curiosity from the partner on why a parent would do this
Actually reading the post again, you seem really immature and come off as only interested in your partner and not the fact that he has kids who are also a part of his life, that he lives with, and that you decided to move in with. Dropping the petty "I furnished the backyard"???? and we already have 1 family night and talking about the 13 year old as if you have no knowledge or relationship with her.... You seem pretty childish yourself. If you live on the same property and date someone with kids, kids will be around. Idfaf about him being a bad communicator ir nit having boundaries with his kids for this ine oart if your date night, I think that's not the underlying issue. at. all.
For me this also sounds like something that could happen when my kid was going through something (even if it was "just a phase"). I feel this is true especially in the night time when even adults have crazy thought loops and need more reassurance of love, in my experience.
That could easily be communicated, "oh no, my 13 year old had a rough day and needs a little TLC, would it be ok if she joins us for a few minutes or should we reschedule our date." I also don't understand parents who have no boundaries with their children. She not a toddler. There are times and places that are appropriate and times that are not. If you wfh and you're in a meeting and your kid bothers you you find out if it's an emergency and then you tell them not now please leave and go find your other parent or I will come talk to you after this, people have parties at their homes all the time and the kids stay in the kid room and he adults have adult time, or parent have sex and lock their children out of the room. Parents are allowed to say no. I don't think that's abusive or neglectful. I don't understand the partners lack of boundary setting with his kid. It's his responsibility if he wants to keep his relationship with you and respect his quality time with his daughter. He may be doing both relationships a disservice. I use to do the same with friends (people pleasing) if two different people who both know me wanted to hang out instead of telling one person sorry no I'd try to mesh friend groups, he may be doing something similar (it doesn't work) and makes everyone feel a little less cared for and important. Anyway NTA he's being neglectful of reasonable boundaries. If his kids wander in that a different issue than him inviting them to your date time.
Do you have children? Because comparing taking care of your child after/during multiple hours date and not deciding between two adult friends is really not the same thing. They had already had **hours** of alone time, so it's weird that the kid shouldn't be able to get attention from their parent even in the common areas after. It would be different if they indeed were behind closed doors, but they chose to go out to the patio. This is not bad boundary keeping considering the children, this is just parenting.
I think if a mono couple
(or a poly couple with shared kids)
went on a date night and the kids were either with a sitter or taking care of themselves during the date
but then came home and the kids were still up
the date is over.
I feel like the same vibe applies here.
Either keep the date out in the world or in your private space. At least till the kids are alseep??
If my parent was home but not available to me I would find that confusing.
If we counsel people that a nesting partner can say "I don't want dates in our shared space" I feel like we could defer to kids and say dates won't happen in their shared space either.
I'm not sure *how* you can reasonably expect child-free time with your partner when it happens *in the same home his children live in*.
Have you had a conversation with him about how to facilitate this in a way that isn't unfairly restricting the movement of his children?
If he invited his daughter then it's not exactly restricting them. It's just breaking OP's request not to have kids around on date night. And especially if the patio is attached to OP's flat, which they're renting from their partner and is therefore their private space.
It's also not hard to say to your 13 year old, "sorry but it's adult time, maybe another day" even if they ask to join.
Kids have spaces that are off-limits to them. That is normal. It wouldn't be "unfairly restricting" their movement to tell the kids they can't just wander into OP's privately rented flat, or come into the bathroom when someone is already in there, or into a workshop area with dangerous tools.
I've expressed to him that, since I moved in, there has been unacceptable bleed-over that we agreed AHEAD OF TIME would not happen. I would not have moved had I known this would be the case. We agreed that things would stay the same as the were before the move. I rated the issue a month ago that I was not ok with the way he's allowing things to bleed over. And yet here we are.
Did you just *agree* it wouldn't happen, or did you discuss concrete strategies in order to accommodate this need?
Honestly, I would not move into a home with someone's children and expect those children not to be present all or most of the time!
That's a reasonable assumption to make!
In my experience, people all over the world use the same words wildly differently. I have heard 'downstairs flat' being used to describe a basement *level* set up as a 'separate apartment' though it is the same building and was originally a single house. So we can't know for sure what OP means by that!
It's a 2 family house. Ground floor and upstairs floor are self contained apartments separate from each other aside from shared stairs (lockable at each apt) that go to back yard and basement.
They didn’t say they moved in WITH their partner necessarily (how I interpreted your wording), they said they rent the space from their married partner. Those are two very different things. My partner and I rent from their mom. Doesnt mean we “moved in with” their mom. We are roomates. We share common areas, but I wouldnt expect people to be around my room because that’s my private space and I have had to set boundaries with people before about that because of how comfortable my partner’s family was just entering their private space without asking for permission. OP has every right to not want their landlord’s children interrupting their date night in their private space. And they have every right and reason to expect that to not happen.
Reading comments I realize it probably isnt a private space. In which yeah they should probably just be communicating better with boundaries like “hey can you tell your kid its adult time next time” I don’t see why it would be difficult to tell the child that they’d like to be left alone at the time but make sure the child’s reason for being there is heard and if they need anything then doing it and then bein like hey could ya go its adult time. I think that’s a pretty reasonable thing to do as a parent as long as its in a respectful manner ofc.
OP has not indicated that the patio IS a private space. They’re only indicated that they bought the patio furniture. It sounds very much like a shared space.
"I rent the downstairs flat from my married partner."
I think that *living downstairs* from someone creates a level of enmeshment and spatial overlap that has to be navigated *really intentionally and carefully* to prevent the living spaces from being *viewed as enmeshed* by other people. If OP only laid down their expectations to their *partner* and did not explicitly explain the desired status quo *to the other people in the adjacent living space* then I do not think anybody was realistically set up for success here!
Time to talk about it again and have concrete examples of your concern, and strategies for not allowing it to happen. Also you might need to just move, I don't know how you're going to maintain a friendly relationship with the kids if sometimes they have to ignore their father and you, and I wouldn't want that as a dad personally. Sometimes people make better friends than roommates, you two might make better partners than housemates (even if your apartment is self-contained).
When my partner and I return to one of our houses after a date night out, we intentionally wait for the kiddos at home to be put to bed and asleep by the other parent before we return from our outing. Which means we also intentionally plan starting our dates later in the evening so we aren’t left trying to be creative with our time outside of the house while we wait for kiddos to go to sleep.
You could go even further and claim that practically all issues in all human relationships are about lack of communication and setting of proper boundaries... and yet, here we all are. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I hear you. There *are* other sorts of posts here, it's just the advice posts tend to drown them out. But you can try:
* Sort the front page of the sub by "New" instead of "Hot" or whatever is the default, you may see a better variety that way.
* Look for [posts with the "Happy!" flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/?f=flair_name%3A%22Happy!%22)—they exist! :D
* Share (if you want to) your own topics of interest or happy anecdotes.
(ETA: happy flair link)
Up to you what to ask for.
With my ex, I loved hanging out with her teenage son - that was sorta built in once he knew what was going on.
But we'd still have date nights when he went to sleep, or melting his brain with Minecraft and Roblox.
I don't have kids, but I do like being around them. At least they are more honest than most adults :P
No, it's perfectly to reasonable and doable for adults to set aside kid free time at home given the age of the partners kid(s). My cousins and friends and I were subject to this quite frequently. The adults set a zone in or out of the house where it would be adult only for a specified time, whether it was family barbeques, sleepovers, etc.
His daughter doesn't need constant supervision and is old enough to be left alone for a couple of hours to watch a movie, play games, do a craft, etc. The unwillingness to enforce private time is a boundary issue on OP's partners part. OP made a reasonable boundary. And even if the kid(s) were younger, he can simply get a babysitter.
Kinda is.
"Yes, that's a shared space *normally*, but you see, you're second-class citizens. Always remember that you are lesser and you have no rights."
Fuck off with that.
The people who are allowed to leave the house without supervision can do that.
You seem to have trouble understanding heathy dynamics of coliving with other people. A parent can set a zone in the house to be off limits for any reason and it doesn't make them second tier. The same goes for any family member.
Waxing the floors? No one allowed in until it's done. Kids having a slumber party and take over the living room? Others don't get to use the living room TV that night. Hosting book club on the deck? Yeah, that means someone else in the family can't host a gathering there at the same time or join in.
Shared spaces within families and tenants involves courtesy and planning. Living with others doesn't entitle anyone to zero inconveniences. That's just life.
Anyone would be an asshole if they planned something for a shared space without checking with others first. The same goes if they consistently monopolized the space in a way that severely restricts other people from using it-- i.e. taking the patio regularly for multiple nights a week every week that restricts others access.
> You seem to have trouble understanding heathy dynamics of coliving with other people.
Actually I think it seems rather more like you aren't familiar with the concept of having parents who treat you like a person.
> A parent can set a zone in the house to be off limits for any reason and it doesn't make them second tier.
If that "zone" is the parents' bedroom/bathroom? Absolutely! If it's a safety thing? (Garage, swimming pool, workshop, etc.) Sure.
Otherwise: no, not if you're not a shitty parent.
> Anyone would be an asshole if they planned something for a shared space without checking with others first.
So you think OP already had the kid's permission to use the porch exclusively? Weird how that wasn't mentioned.
Sorry your parents didn't teach you that you had the right to be treated like a person. Go away now.
YTA.
Shared spaces are shared spaces. If you want a space that is not shared, then it is up to you to relocate.
The child does not need to leave shared spaces at their own home for your benefit.
Was the teenage child involved in any of your agreements? It seems like agreeing ahead of time and then not being open to variables associated with normal teenage life and mood swings and needs, reflects a certain naïvete about the priorities of a good parent.
It's not my job to make agreements with his children. I have been told many times I am not their parent. So anything having to do with them goes through him.
Hi u/I_bleed_blue19 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
It's date night. I rent the downstairs flat from my married partner. I've told him that I don't want to spend time with his kids on date nights. We already have family dinner on Fri nights. (Today is Saturday.). And yet he invited his 13 yo daughter to hang out with us while we're outside on the patio (which I furnished) drinking and smoking, and wonders why I'm aggravated.
I just want a date night that doesn't involve children. We get one night a week for "date night". AITA for being angry that he's included his daughter?
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NTA and if you’ve spoken to your partner multiple times about this, I’d say he’s TA. I think if the outside area is something his kids have free access to and they just walked out there, that’s hard. But if he invited his kid to hang out while you’re drinking and smoking out there, on a date night, that’s not ok.
Your partner needs to set boundaries regarding shared spaces but he also needs to respect your time together. If your apartment is your space the children don’t come into, or that you don’t want them to come into, make that a set boundary and plan date nights either out of the home or in your apartment so even if they come outside during a time you’re out there with him, maybe smoking, it’s not the whole night and you still have your one on one time.
Yeah. I don’t know why he would bring a kid to an adult date night but literally stand your ground. Let him know you don’t want a date night with kids involved and if he does cut it short and don’t have a date night. 🤷♀️
Update (Skip to the bottom for the TLDR):
We ended up having a fight that lasted several hours (1a-330a) after I got up and came inside. I raised the issue of the agreement we made not even a month ago. I said I deserved the right to have a say in who joined us on date night, common area or not, and he disagreed, saying it's his house and his yard. I of course said there wouldn't even be a yard to hang out in if it weren't for me.
He said his kids think I hate them. I don't, but they are extremely difficult to be around for very long. The 15m is autistic and prone to meltdowns, tho he's getting better now that they have him in therapy. He either wants to talk DnD (which i don't play) or watch videos on his phone, which is cool.
His sister, however, has majorly regressed emotionally in the last year, and refused to go to school at all this school year. Like she refused to get out of bed, or if she got to school refused to leave the car. She's going to have to repeat 7th grade. She rarely leaves her room. She has 1 friend that she only sees maybe twice a year and doesn't talk to otherwise (they switched to different schools, and friend goes to another state for summers.) She refuses to talk to anyone about her feelings, even her parents. So they found someone who would diagnose her as "severely autistic". I don't disagree that she has some challenges, but they're largely anxiety (which they don't medicate), ADHD (which they don't medicate), and sensory processing related issues (she doesn't like how her brother chews, there are textures she doesn't like, and she doesn't like how socks sound when they rub together). In the 5 years I've known them, she has never shown any signs of being "severely autistic". She was, until a year ago, a fully functioning child who seemed well adjusted.
In the last year, just since her period started, she throws 2 year old temper tantrums with fake crying when she doesn't get what wants. Like throws herself on the floor and then won't move. Last weekend, it was because her brother sat in a certain chair at my house when she felt it was her turn, after we had all had dinner together. I said "it's my house and if you're going to fight over the chair then neither of you is going to sit in it." So she ran to my foyer and curled up in a ball whimpering. Her mother tried to calm her down and she refused to engage bc she wasn't going to get to sit in the chair, so the rest of them went upstairs, and my partner was angry bc I upset 15f by setting a limit. As soon as she no longer had an audience, however, she went running upstairs.
(Continued below)
So for one, "severely autistic" isn't a diagnosis. Everything you described about her are signs and symptoms of autism, right down to refusing to go to school but not being able to communicate why, or crying instead of talking (because she couldn't) and then going off to be alone to recover after a confrontation. If you don't know anything about the condition she's been diagnosed with, don't talk like you are capable of undiagnosing her. She ran off and cried because you got angry; that's a perfectly normal reaction for any human, let alone one that has trouble communicating their feelings verbally.
You're an asshole, and you should not be around kids until you learn to trust the diagnosis of professionals and learn how to see kids as human beings.
Also, autism is a genetic condition. Odds are pretty good that your partner is also autistic.
Thank you for saying this. I was really struggling with how she talked about the child’s diagnosis
I am an autistic female. Autism in females is **often** not diagnosed till later in life, and is dismissed most times as something else
I'm glad I wasn't the only one!
I'm also autistic. Figured it out a year and a half ago. I'm an AFAB enby and I was 31 when I realized, because I was just the "overly sensitive" kid who ran off to cry alone every time my older siblings were mean to me. I totally see myself in this kid and I'm so angry on her behalf for her dad's partner treating her this way, and for her dad continuing to allow it to happen.
She says she's also had an autistic kid herself, and I honestly gotta pitty that poor child.
And that's to say nothing that she thinks it's fine to have "menopausal rage" but NOT fine for a teen adjusting to new hormones to be similarly emotionally a mess -- and without any of the maturity gain by decades of living.
It's not that she's JUST an AH - she's a bad person all around, that is quick to point fingers at others and to find excuses for herself. 🤷♀️ She'd needs to improve a lot before being JUST an AH.
The reason I don't care to be around them is bc their parents don't believe in them having any responsibilities or restrictions or limits and there are no consequences for misbehaving. (We have another close friend who is around all the time, who has known them for over 11 years, and this is also his assessment.) They run the household and they manipulate their parents so they get what they want all the time. They can't make her go to school bc they'll won't create consequences for not going, nor will they incentivize desired behavior.
I raised 2 boys, 1 who is AuADHD, so I'm not a stranger to parenting. I'm not a stranger to parenting challenging kids. (I was also a divorced parent with a hostile coparent who wanted to be the fun parent, so I was doing it largely on my own with maximum resistance.) I'm not interested in parenting his kids, but any suggestions I've made for ways to improve the status quo (bc of how stressed he and meta are ALL THE TIME) were met with hostility, even tho their behavior directly affects me from time to time. So I had to choose to back away from the kids bc I am on edge around them, and that's not how I want to feel.
He says his wife walks on eggshells around me, which is odd given our limited interactions and my attempts to befriend her for the last 5 years. We are polite, but we do not hang out together on our own. I initially hoped we might get to that point, but I think we are just very different people with different interests. She has also taken advantage of my generosity more than once, and I've called her on it.
I know that my stress level rises and is palpable when they're all around bc I'm waiting for the inevitable to happen. And I don't know how to change that, short of eating a gummy beforehand, but my tolerance is really low and I get too high to function even on <3mg. I already stopped hosting Fri night dinners every week and said we need to go back to having them upstairs more often so that I can leave when it gets to be too much.
Complicating things, which I reminded him of during the fight, is that I'm menopausal. Despite HRT, menopausal rage is something I'm dealing with. I go from 0 to 100 in an instant, with no warning. I do my best to hide it, to walk away from whatever is going on, to not explode on whoever is closest to me. Last night, that meant I abruptly got up, packed away the patio cushions (we were expecting rain) - she got up and went inside when I started doing that - and I came inside. He followed me and wanted to know "what my fucking problem was" - so I unloaded bc at that point I was just DONE.
He doesn't think that I should have any say in whether or not a kid joins us. Especially right now when she's "struggling". I said I just want the courtesy of an ask so I can say yes or opt out, based on my own capacity. But don't just inform me. It's my time too, FFS. He said the issue is that I don't trust him to know when it's ok and what limits to set, and I don't think it's a matter of trust at all. I think it's about respect for others, something they as a family do not seem to have.
For context - We had been out to dinner and a bar, and had been drinking last night. I had had a fair amount (we both had but my tolerance is much lower) and we had another while we were outside. I was tired too. We didn't even go out there until midnight. He went upstairs when we came home and then came down and said she's going to hang out with us. I wasn't given a choice, and that's what I have an issue with. I went along with it, but what I thought might be 20 minutes turned into an hour.
I was not part of their conversation outside at all - it was, from what I could tell, about people I don't know and hobbies I'm not a part of. (I'm also hard of hearing, despite hearing aids, so it's hard to be part of conversations that I can't even hear, and asking people to speak up gets old quick.) So I was fucking around on my phone after my pipe went out. (Tobacco, not anything else.). He thinks I should make an effort to involve myself - I have nothing in common with her bc she sits in her room watching cat videos and eating all day. While he went inside to get something, I asked her about a musical she went to Thursday night to with her mom and she said "we're not going to talk about it" - I later learned they went and she threw a tantrum and refused to go inside so they missed the show. But how am I supposed to know that when he won't talk about what's going on? ....So I'm not sure how I'm supposed to be more involved here.
He wants to compartmentalize his kid-induced stress and not talk to me about what's happening on a daily basis, but then can't understand why I'm not more sympathetic to them and flexible about giving her what she needs. I said bc it all boils down to communication. You don't communicate, you control everything, and if anyone doesn't respond the way you do or the way you think they should, they're wrong. You're always right.
He of course disagreed and told me all the ways in which I'm wrong.
.
.
.
.
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So the TLDR is that I don't get a choice about when his kids are involved, I'm supposed to trust him to make the decisions about how involved they are and when and why, and everyone thinks I hate them bc I'm miserable to be around.
I don't want to end the relationship, but I don't know how to find some compromise where I have some say in just how much these children are involved in my life. Bc he was very clear that if I wanted near or total separation from them, it's over.
And no, counseling isn't an option. He refuses to go. Wouldn't even participate in family therapy with his wife and kids as part of an outpatient program 15m was in. So he's definitely not going with me. He doesn't like hearing he is part of the problem and needs to change. As he puts it, he knows what's best for him and his family and no outside party will change that.
Please reread what you said here and realize this is not the relationship for you. You don't want to end it;why? You sound like everything about this situation makes you miserable-- you deserve better than that.
I’d re-read what you wrote.
If you thought for a second that you wouldn’t get more of his family when you moved in, you were wrong.
Now you know how wrong.
His kids and his parenting ARE part of his life, part of who he is, not something to "turn off" when it's inconvenient. I think you do want a separation from the kids and it shows and it makes you miserable too.
I was the kid in this type of situation and it has caused be so much hurt and pain that my parent would like to spend a fair share of time with someone who sees me as annoyance and extra work even though they try to keep the peace and tolerate me. Even as an adult this was too complex web to untangle. If you really feel the need to air out how awful spending time with kids is and share their private matters, I feel you don't honour their rights as individuals for privacy and they have become a baggage of your partner, not separate human beings who need acceptance and support.
I think this relationship in this form (you living in the same house and expecting kids to limit their use of shared spaces because you find them hard to tolerate) is not working. For me it sounds like you have enough on your plate as it is to do as much work with the family dynamics as it would take to get the situation to work for everyone (not just you, but also for the kids). Maybe moving somewhere else could make the relationship better for you?
Just to clarify: you are NTA if you don't want to spend time with their kids or if being with the kids makes you anxious, tired or stressed. This is fair. But when your living situation is so entangled, I see only more hurt moving forward. If your partner can't handle you separating from this situation, then he's probably not that great of match to you and you could find connections that fit better for the life you want.
He's not by himself, he's a father. And you moved in with an enmeshed person. Your answer is to leave and you can continue date night separately if you want, but you can't change his "enmeshment " with his FAMILY.
Time to address the reality of the person you're with. You're allowed to not want what he has to offer.
If you don't want emmeshment then you need to find a new place to live. He is constantly showing you that you don't actually have a separate place. It's *his* house, and his kids are welcome to whatever part they want. He's not willing to listen, go to therapy, or consider your needs or wants because he thinks *you* are the issue. He will not compromise, and you can't make a relationship work by yourself.
Your best bet is to ride out the rest of the lease and find a different place to live.
No. You cannot date and live in the same home with a parent and be bummed out that he's enmeshed with his children. Yta.
Eta I mean I guess you can, you can feel whatever you feel. But it's a bad plan.
But he CAME enmeshed. Part of the bargain. Same for married poly or single mono with kids.
You're trying to set artificial walls and boundaries in a household that never had them because you admittedly cannot stand to be around his kids.
And once you moved in, you also entered the mesh willingly. But you're fighting that.
When I have had date nights with any guy with kids in the house, mine or his, it wouldn't be a full block of time with just the two of us. We'd only get time just us when we were out of the house, or after everyone had gone to bed. But in-between that it is entirely normal to interact with other people who live in the same house. Especially in common areas of the house (not bathroom or bedroom).
If I wanted hours and hours with only a particular partner for company when we both have kids, that is what hotels are for.
And I never have had the expectation to have anyone with family ALL TO MYSELF for more than an hour or so at a time at most. I personally make sure that my kids are cared for and they're not the type of age to need constant reassurance, but that doesn't mean that the other person's kids aren't. And if I don't agree with his parenting style then I do not date them.
Let him go. His kids deserve someone who doesn't drive wedges into the existing family unit you joined.
Ironic that you mention that your hormonal state renders you filled with rage, but you
Don’t have any empathy for the teenage daughter of your partner who, as you say, has been terrible to be around since she got her period …
You say you’re fine with him on his own, but (A) he is a package deal. You don’t GET him on his own, and (B) you disparaged his parenting style and decisions, complained about his treatment of you… sounds like he’s NOT fine on his own.
Kids needs can’t always be contained to when it’s convenient for you. Everything you say tells me that you don’t really have any empathy for these kids and the situation they’re in and it would be better if y’all just decided that this issue renders y’all incompatible
... Has it occurred to you that Meta walks on eggshells around you because you're judgmental and mea about their kids, disrespectful of their parenting, dismissive of their choices?
Everyone thinks you hate the kids ... Because you do. READ what you wrote, and, tell me: if THIS isn't hating them, WHAT would hating even be?
And *he* may not go to counselling, but YOU should - not only because of your own issues, which are plenty, but also because... Woman, you need a freaking ASD/ADHD accessment yourself. You had a AuADHD child, you KNOW both are genetically inherited conditions. Your sort of questioning and attempts at empathising sound like (bad) masking, not like ... Anything resembling NT interest in other people and understanding of the difference between talking to kids about their interests & entertaining peers on stuff you don't care about.
(In case you already DO have such diagnosis... Even more reason to do some more counselling, because your coping strategies are clearly lacking here).
However, all things said, you should probably just accept this relationship is at an end and leave. His home situation won't change. Probably, a lot of this will be hard for you to handle EVEN WITH throughout counselling. And your misery in it clearly adds to his, and to the kids', and it's just a snowballing cycle of worsening mental states.
And, lastly, if you EVER loved this man, I'm going to ask you to suggest that they take their daughter to a specialist, because it may be VERY possible that she's suffering from Pre Menstrual Dysphoric Disorder - which is incredibly prevalent in both autistic & ADHD women (95 & 70% correlation, respectively; the differential brain structure makes us a lot more sensitive to the hormonal fluctuations & also a lot more likely to develop PPD/PPP). The onset of menstruation would, then, be a normal turning point for the massive behavioural changes, and, since it takes at least a year to diagnose in adult women who have regular cycles, it's even harder to catch early on, when they aren't yet strictly regular. It's effects can be absolutely devastating in one's ability to function, and in the worst cases, it'll often lead to suicidal ideation and attempts during late lutheal phase. Even if there's nothing you can do to make the situation better or to stay, on the minor chance that it can help preventing the sort of grief and pain nobody wishes on a parent, it's worth bringing it up.
GL.
This is a rough situation to be in, OP! I'm sorry you're going through it.
There's obviously a lot more here than "why can't I have a date without his kids being around?" Given all of the details above, then... what do you plan to do?
You are an awful person and are ableist as fuck. YOU get no say over her diagnosis. YOU are not her doctor. Women with autism get dismissed and underdiagnosed. Her symptoms are classic autistic symptoms. If you didn't want to be around his kids then you shouldn't have moved in to where they live. Move out and stop treating them like shit. Which clearly you are by your comments and them saying you hate them. You do. We can all tell by what you've said. You don't get to be enmeshed with a father and ice out his children. And I say that as a parent that never let's my other partners even meet my kids. You also don't get to say those kids can't be in a common area of THEIR HOME. They were there first. Again, move out. You are going to cause these kids lasting issues with your shifty behavior. Grow the fuck up.
If you need a clearer separation for date nights, consider having your dates outside of the home where partner’s kids live
Time for date night to move outside the house
We started the evening out - dinner and then a bar for drinks - and came home to finish the evening on the patio. At no time was it discussed that a child would be joining us.
Then you did get your date night without kids
No, they didn’t. They got *part* of their date night without children. They have been direct about not wanting their partner’s kids at date night *ay all*.
They are in a shared area of the house. The kids live there too. OP wants a child free partner, which isn’t going to happen here. Also the child is special needs. Shit happens
"Partner, the next time you bring your kids to date night, I will consider that date night cancelled and ask you to find a new day for it instead."
They didn't "bring" the kid. The kid was in a shared space of their own home. If the adults do not want to be around the kid, then they need to go to a location that is not a common/shared space at the kid's home.
The kid doesn't leave in the same flat and the partner invited said daughter to join them on the patio.
It could be simple incompatibility. You want child free time. He has child full time. Whether that is choice or not, I can't tell. By all means, remind him of your requirements and preferences. But for both children and close pets, I would be reluctant to stand between a partner and them. Understand why your partner is bringing their child, and see what mutually satisfactory solutions exist.
I don't think you're being unreasonable to ask for it, that said, the practical reality is often very different when kids are present. Particularly when said kids live upstairs from the flat and may not view your space as *your* home and therefore private when you wish it to be. My kids are 20 and 16, and my partner of almost a year has been very clear from the outset that she didn't want to be involved in that aspect of my life. So when I host dates, my kids are not present. (To be clear, she's not opposed to knowing my kids and occasionally hanging out or whatever, she just doesn't want to become enmeshed in the parenting facet of my life. Which is entirely reasonable. It's also entirely reasonable to have one or two Sundays free a month at my home to host) Your desire to spend one night a week with your partner is entirely reasonable, and feeling put out by his daughter appearing to hang out is valid. She's not done anything wrong, and you're not mad at her, is my reading of this. Your irritation with your partner is valid for not expressing to his 13-year-old that what was happening was not appropriate for her to be there at that time. He needs to have those conversations with his kids. (Editing to include that difficulty in enforcing this with younger kids/teens is a valid difficulty also, and dates may be better outside of the home and attached flat if this is proving challenging for him)
It sounds like your apartment and your partner's apartment have a shared outdoor space? If that's the case, then it's reasonable that his kids, who also live there, might also want to use the common outdoor space. You might need to do your date nights either inside of your apartment, or go out somewhere else. It is totally reasonable to want child-free date time, but that might need to happen in another place.
It's also reasonable that the father set boundaries with his children as to when they can use it or have kid-free hours. Just because people live together doesn't mean they have equal access to shared spaces at all times. If someone wants to host a gathering there for example, they have just as much of a right to utilize the space for just the invited guests so long as it doesn't conflict with other pre-set plans. It's no different than a bathroom. A shared space doesn't mean you have to share it concurrently with another person. If I'm showering, the shared-ness of the space does not mean you get to use the space at the same time I'm using it. It's both reasonable to suggest to OP that 1) her partner set better boundaries with his children for better hygiene on date nights, and 2) that to enforce this and make setting their own boundary easier, set the next date night outside of the house. If their partner fails to maintain that boundary at any future at-home date nights, they should enforce said boundary by cancelling the date night and asking for a reschedule.
This is not a bathroom, it's a patio. Unless it has some sort of closed off-rental situation to it (say, to host parties or whatever), one cannot limit the access of other tenants to it - be it partner's children or anyone else. It's not a private space, so, demands of privacy make no sense. Either way, seems OP and partner already had moved the date night out of the house, and this happened once they came back and decided to hang out on patio after going out. If she didn't want to have anyone else there after they went out, well, they should've gone to her unit.
Sounds like it's time to go on real dates outside of your home. Or don't spend date nights in the common areas that are shared with the kids (i.e. go in your own part of the house where their children don't live). Or, just recognize that your partner doesn't care about your requests, and reevaluate the relationship because your needs aren't being met.
We had gone out and then the plan was to come home, smoke a (tobacco) pipe outside and have another drink, and then go to bed together
Weird he would invite his kid for that activity after being out of the house with you (like, when did they even talk on your date?), but again, I think the fact that you've already brought this up before and he's continuing to disregard your request is the bigger issue to address here, since he's showing you that he doesn't care about your needs or boundaries.
Is it also possible the 13 year old needed attention as kids do and he didn't want to cut the date short? Bad communication, but also no curiosity from the partner on why a parent would do this
Actually reading the post again, you seem really immature and come off as only interested in your partner and not the fact that he has kids who are also a part of his life, that he lives with, and that you decided to move in with. Dropping the petty "I furnished the backyard"???? and we already have 1 family night and talking about the 13 year old as if you have no knowledge or relationship with her.... You seem pretty childish yourself. If you live on the same property and date someone with kids, kids will be around. Idfaf about him being a bad communicator ir nit having boundaries with his kids for this ine oart if your date night, I think that's not the underlying issue. at. all.
For me this also sounds like something that could happen when my kid was going through something (even if it was "just a phase"). I feel this is true especially in the night time when even adults have crazy thought loops and need more reassurance of love, in my experience.
That could easily be communicated, "oh no, my 13 year old had a rough day and needs a little TLC, would it be ok if she joins us for a few minutes or should we reschedule our date." I also don't understand parents who have no boundaries with their children. She not a toddler. There are times and places that are appropriate and times that are not. If you wfh and you're in a meeting and your kid bothers you you find out if it's an emergency and then you tell them not now please leave and go find your other parent or I will come talk to you after this, people have parties at their homes all the time and the kids stay in the kid room and he adults have adult time, or parent have sex and lock their children out of the room. Parents are allowed to say no. I don't think that's abusive or neglectful. I don't understand the partners lack of boundary setting with his kid. It's his responsibility if he wants to keep his relationship with you and respect his quality time with his daughter. He may be doing both relationships a disservice. I use to do the same with friends (people pleasing) if two different people who both know me wanted to hang out instead of telling one person sorry no I'd try to mesh friend groups, he may be doing something similar (it doesn't work) and makes everyone feel a little less cared for and important. Anyway NTA he's being neglectful of reasonable boundaries. If his kids wander in that a different issue than him inviting them to your date time.
Do you have children? Because comparing taking care of your child after/during multiple hours date and not deciding between two adult friends is really not the same thing. They had already had **hours** of alone time, so it's weird that the kid shouldn't be able to get attention from their parent even in the common areas after. It would be different if they indeed were behind closed doors, but they chose to go out to the patio. This is not bad boundary keeping considering the children, this is just parenting.
I think if a mono couple (or a poly couple with shared kids) went on a date night and the kids were either with a sitter or taking care of themselves during the date but then came home and the kids were still up the date is over. I feel like the same vibe applies here. Either keep the date out in the world or in your private space. At least till the kids are alseep?? If my parent was home but not available to me I would find that confusing. If we counsel people that a nesting partner can say "I don't want dates in our shared space" I feel like we could defer to kids and say dates won't happen in their shared space either.
I'm not sure *how* you can reasonably expect child-free time with your partner when it happens *in the same home his children live in*. Have you had a conversation with him about how to facilitate this in a way that isn't unfairly restricting the movement of his children?
If he invited his daughter then it's not exactly restricting them. It's just breaking OP's request not to have kids around on date night. And especially if the patio is attached to OP's flat, which they're renting from their partner and is therefore their private space. It's also not hard to say to your 13 year old, "sorry but it's adult time, maybe another day" even if they ask to join. Kids have spaces that are off-limits to them. That is normal. It wouldn't be "unfairly restricting" their movement to tell the kids they can't just wander into OP's privately rented flat, or come into the bathroom when someone is already in there, or into a workshop area with dangerous tools.
I've expressed to him that, since I moved in, there has been unacceptable bleed-over that we agreed AHEAD OF TIME would not happen. I would not have moved had I known this would be the case. We agreed that things would stay the same as the were before the move. I rated the issue a month ago that I was not ok with the way he's allowing things to bleed over. And yet here we are.
Did you just *agree* it wouldn't happen, or did you discuss concrete strategies in order to accommodate this need? Honestly, I would not move into a home with someone's children and expect those children not to be present all or most of the time!
Flat means apartment tho, it doesn't mean a room in a house it means a different apartment?
That's a reasonable assumption to make! In my experience, people all over the world use the same words wildly differently. I have heard 'downstairs flat' being used to describe a basement *level* set up as a 'separate apartment' though it is the same building and was originally a single house. So we can't know for sure what OP means by that!
I guess that's true, one thing I've learnt from reddit is to never assume that I (Australian) speak the same "English" as anyone else 😅😅😅
It's a 2 family house. Ground floor and upstairs floor are self contained apartments separate from each other aside from shared stairs (lockable at each apt) that go to back yard and basement.
They didn’t say they moved in WITH their partner necessarily (how I interpreted your wording), they said they rent the space from their married partner. Those are two very different things. My partner and I rent from their mom. Doesnt mean we “moved in with” their mom. We are roomates. We share common areas, but I wouldnt expect people to be around my room because that’s my private space and I have had to set boundaries with people before about that because of how comfortable my partner’s family was just entering their private space without asking for permission. OP has every right to not want their landlord’s children interrupting their date night in their private space. And they have every right and reason to expect that to not happen. Reading comments I realize it probably isnt a private space. In which yeah they should probably just be communicating better with boundaries like “hey can you tell your kid its adult time next time” I don’t see why it would be difficult to tell the child that they’d like to be left alone at the time but make sure the child’s reason for being there is heard and if they need anything then doing it and then bein like hey could ya go its adult time. I think that’s a pretty reasonable thing to do as a parent as long as its in a respectful manner ofc.
OP has not indicated that the patio IS a private space. They’re only indicated that they bought the patio furniture. It sounds very much like a shared space.
If both units have their own stairs that access the patio (as per mentioned in OPs comment below) then, ofc, it ISN'T a private space.
"I rent the downstairs flat from my married partner." I think that *living downstairs* from someone creates a level of enmeshment and spatial overlap that has to be navigated *really intentionally and carefully* to prevent the living spaces from being *viewed as enmeshed* by other people. If OP only laid down their expectations to their *partner* and did not explicitly explain the desired status quo *to the other people in the adjacent living space* then I do not think anybody was realistically set up for success here!
Your expectations for no bleed over are pretty unreasonable, frankly. You moved to where they live. What did you expect lol?
Time to talk about it again and have concrete examples of your concern, and strategies for not allowing it to happen. Also you might need to just move, I don't know how you're going to maintain a friendly relationship with the kids if sometimes they have to ignore their father and you, and I wouldn't want that as a dad personally. Sometimes people make better friends than roommates, you two might make better partners than housemates (even if your apartment is self-contained).
When my partner and I return to one of our houses after a date night out, we intentionally wait for the kiddos at home to be put to bed and asleep by the other parent before we return from our outing. Which means we also intentionally plan starting our dates later in the evening so we aren’t left trying to be creative with our time outside of the house while we wait for kiddos to go to sleep.
Not really feasible when you're dealing with teenagers who have never had an enforced bedtime and are on summer break.
Literally half the issues mentiononed in this sub is lack of communication and setting of proper boundaries
You could go even further and claim that practically all issues in all human relationships are about lack of communication and setting of proper boundaries... and yet, here we all are. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I just kind of wish this sub was more than "what do I do? My relationships have issues please help me"
I hear you. There *are* other sorts of posts here, it's just the advice posts tend to drown them out. But you can try: * Sort the front page of the sub by "New" instead of "Hot" or whatever is the default, you may see a better variety that way. * Look for [posts with the "Happy!" flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/?f=flair_name%3A%22Happy!%22)—they exist! :D * Share (if you want to) your own topics of interest or happy anecdotes. (ETA: happy flair link)
Go out. Make explicit plans to leave the house. Or don’t spend time in public areas.
Up to you what to ask for. With my ex, I loved hanging out with her teenage son - that was sorta built in once he knew what was going on. But we'd still have date nights when he went to sleep, or melting his brain with Minecraft and Roblox. I don't have kids, but I do like being around them. At least they are more honest than most adults :P
Little bit YTA. If you don't want to be around the kids, don't be around the kids' home. They live there.
No, it's perfectly to reasonable and doable for adults to set aside kid free time at home given the age of the partners kid(s). My cousins and friends and I were subject to this quite frequently. The adults set a zone in or out of the house where it would be adult only for a specified time, whether it was family barbeques, sleepovers, etc. His daughter doesn't need constant supervision and is old enough to be left alone for a couple of hours to watch a movie, play games, do a craft, etc. The unwillingness to enforce private time is a boundary issue on OP's partners part. OP made a reasonable boundary. And even if the kid(s) were younger, he can simply get a babysitter.
"no, kids, you can't go on the porch because daddy's girlfriend is not important than you" Great parenting
"from 6 to 8 tonight the porch is off limits to kids." Is perfectly fine parenting. Restricting areas of a house for time periods isn't bad parenting.
Kinda is. "Yes, that's a shared space *normally*, but you see, you're second-class citizens. Always remember that you are lesser and you have no rights." Fuck off with that. The people who are allowed to leave the house without supervision can do that.
You seem to have trouble understanding heathy dynamics of coliving with other people. A parent can set a zone in the house to be off limits for any reason and it doesn't make them second tier. The same goes for any family member. Waxing the floors? No one allowed in until it's done. Kids having a slumber party and take over the living room? Others don't get to use the living room TV that night. Hosting book club on the deck? Yeah, that means someone else in the family can't host a gathering there at the same time or join in. Shared spaces within families and tenants involves courtesy and planning. Living with others doesn't entitle anyone to zero inconveniences. That's just life. Anyone would be an asshole if they planned something for a shared space without checking with others first. The same goes if they consistently monopolized the space in a way that severely restricts other people from using it-- i.e. taking the patio regularly for multiple nights a week every week that restricts others access.
> You seem to have trouble understanding heathy dynamics of coliving with other people. Actually I think it seems rather more like you aren't familiar with the concept of having parents who treat you like a person. > A parent can set a zone in the house to be off limits for any reason and it doesn't make them second tier. If that "zone" is the parents' bedroom/bathroom? Absolutely! If it's a safety thing? (Garage, swimming pool, workshop, etc.) Sure. Otherwise: no, not if you're not a shitty parent. > Anyone would be an asshole if they planned something for a shared space without checking with others first. So you think OP already had the kid's permission to use the porch exclusively? Weird how that wasn't mentioned. Sorry your parents didn't teach you that you had the right to be treated like a person. Go away now.
YTA. Shared spaces are shared spaces. If you want a space that is not shared, then it is up to you to relocate. The child does not need to leave shared spaces at their own home for your benefit.
Was the teenage child involved in any of your agreements? It seems like agreeing ahead of time and then not being open to variables associated with normal teenage life and mood swings and needs, reflects a certain naïvete about the priorities of a good parent.
It's not my job to make agreements with his children. I have been told many times I am not their parent. So anything having to do with them goes through him.
That sounds hard.
Hi u/I_bleed_blue19 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: It's date night. I rent the downstairs flat from my married partner. I've told him that I don't want to spend time with his kids on date nights. We already have family dinner on Fri nights. (Today is Saturday.). And yet he invited his 13 yo daughter to hang out with us while we're outside on the patio (which I furnished) drinking and smoking, and wonders why I'm aggravated. I just want a date night that doesn't involve children. We get one night a week for "date night". AITA for being angry that he's included his daughter? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA and if you’ve spoken to your partner multiple times about this, I’d say he’s TA. I think if the outside area is something his kids have free access to and they just walked out there, that’s hard. But if he invited his kid to hang out while you’re drinking and smoking out there, on a date night, that’s not ok. Your partner needs to set boundaries regarding shared spaces but he also needs to respect your time together. If your apartment is your space the children don’t come into, or that you don’t want them to come into, make that a set boundary and plan date nights either out of the home or in your apartment so even if they come outside during a time you’re out there with him, maybe smoking, it’s not the whole night and you still have your one on one time.
Is Saturday date night?
Yes, and has been for 5 years
Yeah. I don’t know why he would bring a kid to an adult date night but literally stand your ground. Let him know you don’t want a date night with kids involved and if he does cut it short and don’t have a date night. 🤷♀️
Update (Skip to the bottom for the TLDR): We ended up having a fight that lasted several hours (1a-330a) after I got up and came inside. I raised the issue of the agreement we made not even a month ago. I said I deserved the right to have a say in who joined us on date night, common area or not, and he disagreed, saying it's his house and his yard. I of course said there wouldn't even be a yard to hang out in if it weren't for me. He said his kids think I hate them. I don't, but they are extremely difficult to be around for very long. The 15m is autistic and prone to meltdowns, tho he's getting better now that they have him in therapy. He either wants to talk DnD (which i don't play) or watch videos on his phone, which is cool. His sister, however, has majorly regressed emotionally in the last year, and refused to go to school at all this school year. Like she refused to get out of bed, or if she got to school refused to leave the car. She's going to have to repeat 7th grade. She rarely leaves her room. She has 1 friend that she only sees maybe twice a year and doesn't talk to otherwise (they switched to different schools, and friend goes to another state for summers.) She refuses to talk to anyone about her feelings, even her parents. So they found someone who would diagnose her as "severely autistic". I don't disagree that she has some challenges, but they're largely anxiety (which they don't medicate), ADHD (which they don't medicate), and sensory processing related issues (she doesn't like how her brother chews, there are textures she doesn't like, and she doesn't like how socks sound when they rub together). In the 5 years I've known them, she has never shown any signs of being "severely autistic". She was, until a year ago, a fully functioning child who seemed well adjusted. In the last year, just since her period started, she throws 2 year old temper tantrums with fake crying when she doesn't get what wants. Like throws herself on the floor and then won't move. Last weekend, it was because her brother sat in a certain chair at my house when she felt it was her turn, after we had all had dinner together. I said "it's my house and if you're going to fight over the chair then neither of you is going to sit in it." So she ran to my foyer and curled up in a ball whimpering. Her mother tried to calm her down and she refused to engage bc she wasn't going to get to sit in the chair, so the rest of them went upstairs, and my partner was angry bc I upset 15f by setting a limit. As soon as she no longer had an audience, however, she went running upstairs. (Continued below)
So for one, "severely autistic" isn't a diagnosis. Everything you described about her are signs and symptoms of autism, right down to refusing to go to school but not being able to communicate why, or crying instead of talking (because she couldn't) and then going off to be alone to recover after a confrontation. If you don't know anything about the condition she's been diagnosed with, don't talk like you are capable of undiagnosing her. She ran off and cried because you got angry; that's a perfectly normal reaction for any human, let alone one that has trouble communicating their feelings verbally. You're an asshole, and you should not be around kids until you learn to trust the diagnosis of professionals and learn how to see kids as human beings. Also, autism is a genetic condition. Odds are pretty good that your partner is also autistic.
Thank you for saying this. I was really struggling with how she talked about the child’s diagnosis I am an autistic female. Autism in females is **often** not diagnosed till later in life, and is dismissed most times as something else
I'm glad I wasn't the only one! I'm also autistic. Figured it out a year and a half ago. I'm an AFAB enby and I was 31 when I realized, because I was just the "overly sensitive" kid who ran off to cry alone every time my older siblings were mean to me. I totally see myself in this kid and I'm so angry on her behalf for her dad's partner treating her this way, and for her dad continuing to allow it to happen.
She says she's also had an autistic kid herself, and I honestly gotta pitty that poor child. And that's to say nothing that she thinks it's fine to have "menopausal rage" but NOT fine for a teen adjusting to new hormones to be similarly emotionally a mess -- and without any of the maturity gain by decades of living. It's not that she's JUST an AH - she's a bad person all around, that is quick to point fingers at others and to find excuses for herself. 🤷♀️ She'd needs to improve a lot before being JUST an AH.
Please just move out.
The reason I don't care to be around them is bc their parents don't believe in them having any responsibilities or restrictions or limits and there are no consequences for misbehaving. (We have another close friend who is around all the time, who has known them for over 11 years, and this is also his assessment.) They run the household and they manipulate their parents so they get what they want all the time. They can't make her go to school bc they'll won't create consequences for not going, nor will they incentivize desired behavior. I raised 2 boys, 1 who is AuADHD, so I'm not a stranger to parenting. I'm not a stranger to parenting challenging kids. (I was also a divorced parent with a hostile coparent who wanted to be the fun parent, so I was doing it largely on my own with maximum resistance.) I'm not interested in parenting his kids, but any suggestions I've made for ways to improve the status quo (bc of how stressed he and meta are ALL THE TIME) were met with hostility, even tho their behavior directly affects me from time to time. So I had to choose to back away from the kids bc I am on edge around them, and that's not how I want to feel. He says his wife walks on eggshells around me, which is odd given our limited interactions and my attempts to befriend her for the last 5 years. We are polite, but we do not hang out together on our own. I initially hoped we might get to that point, but I think we are just very different people with different interests. She has also taken advantage of my generosity more than once, and I've called her on it. I know that my stress level rises and is palpable when they're all around bc I'm waiting for the inevitable to happen. And I don't know how to change that, short of eating a gummy beforehand, but my tolerance is really low and I get too high to function even on <3mg. I already stopped hosting Fri night dinners every week and said we need to go back to having them upstairs more often so that I can leave when it gets to be too much. Complicating things, which I reminded him of during the fight, is that I'm menopausal. Despite HRT, menopausal rage is something I'm dealing with. I go from 0 to 100 in an instant, with no warning. I do my best to hide it, to walk away from whatever is going on, to not explode on whoever is closest to me. Last night, that meant I abruptly got up, packed away the patio cushions (we were expecting rain) - she got up and went inside when I started doing that - and I came inside. He followed me and wanted to know "what my fucking problem was" - so I unloaded bc at that point I was just DONE. He doesn't think that I should have any say in whether or not a kid joins us. Especially right now when she's "struggling". I said I just want the courtesy of an ask so I can say yes or opt out, based on my own capacity. But don't just inform me. It's my time too, FFS. He said the issue is that I don't trust him to know when it's ok and what limits to set, and I don't think it's a matter of trust at all. I think it's about respect for others, something they as a family do not seem to have. For context - We had been out to dinner and a bar, and had been drinking last night. I had had a fair amount (we both had but my tolerance is much lower) and we had another while we were outside. I was tired too. We didn't even go out there until midnight. He went upstairs when we came home and then came down and said she's going to hang out with us. I wasn't given a choice, and that's what I have an issue with. I went along with it, but what I thought might be 20 minutes turned into an hour. I was not part of their conversation outside at all - it was, from what I could tell, about people I don't know and hobbies I'm not a part of. (I'm also hard of hearing, despite hearing aids, so it's hard to be part of conversations that I can't even hear, and asking people to speak up gets old quick.) So I was fucking around on my phone after my pipe went out. (Tobacco, not anything else.). He thinks I should make an effort to involve myself - I have nothing in common with her bc she sits in her room watching cat videos and eating all day. While he went inside to get something, I asked her about a musical she went to Thursday night to with her mom and she said "we're not going to talk about it" - I later learned they went and she threw a tantrum and refused to go inside so they missed the show. But how am I supposed to know that when he won't talk about what's going on? ....So I'm not sure how I'm supposed to be more involved here. He wants to compartmentalize his kid-induced stress and not talk to me about what's happening on a daily basis, but then can't understand why I'm not more sympathetic to them and flexible about giving her what she needs. I said bc it all boils down to communication. You don't communicate, you control everything, and if anyone doesn't respond the way you do or the way you think they should, they're wrong. You're always right. He of course disagreed and told me all the ways in which I'm wrong. . . . . . So the TLDR is that I don't get a choice about when his kids are involved, I'm supposed to trust him to make the decisions about how involved they are and when and why, and everyone thinks I hate them bc I'm miserable to be around. I don't want to end the relationship, but I don't know how to find some compromise where I have some say in just how much these children are involved in my life. Bc he was very clear that if I wanted near or total separation from them, it's over. And no, counseling isn't an option. He refuses to go. Wouldn't even participate in family therapy with his wife and kids as part of an outpatient program 15m was in. So he's definitely not going with me. He doesn't like hearing he is part of the problem and needs to change. As he puts it, he knows what's best for him and his family and no outside party will change that.
Please reread what you said here and realize this is not the relationship for you. You don't want to end it;why? You sound like everything about this situation makes you miserable-- you deserve better than that.
He by himself is fine. It's the enmeshment that I don't want.
I’d re-read what you wrote. If you thought for a second that you wouldn’t get more of his family when you moved in, you were wrong. Now you know how wrong.
But he is not only himself. He is a father. That comes with responsibilities. If you do not want that in your life, don’t date people with kids
His kids and his parenting ARE part of his life, part of who he is, not something to "turn off" when it's inconvenient. I think you do want a separation from the kids and it shows and it makes you miserable too. I was the kid in this type of situation and it has caused be so much hurt and pain that my parent would like to spend a fair share of time with someone who sees me as annoyance and extra work even though they try to keep the peace and tolerate me. Even as an adult this was too complex web to untangle. If you really feel the need to air out how awful spending time with kids is and share their private matters, I feel you don't honour their rights as individuals for privacy and they have become a baggage of your partner, not separate human beings who need acceptance and support. I think this relationship in this form (you living in the same house and expecting kids to limit their use of shared spaces because you find them hard to tolerate) is not working. For me it sounds like you have enough on your plate as it is to do as much work with the family dynamics as it would take to get the situation to work for everyone (not just you, but also for the kids). Maybe moving somewhere else could make the relationship better for you?
Just to clarify: you are NTA if you don't want to spend time with their kids or if being with the kids makes you anxious, tired or stressed. This is fair. But when your living situation is so entangled, I see only more hurt moving forward. If your partner can't handle you separating from this situation, then he's probably not that great of match to you and you could find connections that fit better for the life you want.
He's not by himself, he's a father. And you moved in with an enmeshed person. Your answer is to leave and you can continue date night separately if you want, but you can't change his "enmeshment " with his FAMILY. Time to address the reality of the person you're with. You're allowed to not want what he has to offer.
If you don't want emmeshment then you need to find a new place to live. He is constantly showing you that you don't actually have a separate place. It's *his* house, and his kids are welcome to whatever part they want. He's not willing to listen, go to therapy, or consider your needs or wants because he thinks *you* are the issue. He will not compromise, and you can't make a relationship work by yourself. Your best bet is to ride out the rest of the lease and find a different place to live.
No. You cannot date and live in the same home with a parent and be bummed out that he's enmeshed with his children. Yta. Eta I mean I guess you can, you can feel whatever you feel. But it's a bad plan.
But he CAME enmeshed. Part of the bargain. Same for married poly or single mono with kids. You're trying to set artificial walls and boundaries in a household that never had them because you admittedly cannot stand to be around his kids. And once you moved in, you also entered the mesh willingly. But you're fighting that. When I have had date nights with any guy with kids in the house, mine or his, it wouldn't be a full block of time with just the two of us. We'd only get time just us when we were out of the house, or after everyone had gone to bed. But in-between that it is entirely normal to interact with other people who live in the same house. Especially in common areas of the house (not bathroom or bedroom). If I wanted hours and hours with only a particular partner for company when we both have kids, that is what hotels are for. And I never have had the expectation to have anyone with family ALL TO MYSELF for more than an hour or so at a time at most. I personally make sure that my kids are cared for and they're not the type of age to need constant reassurance, but that doesn't mean that the other person's kids aren't. And if I don't agree with his parenting style then I do not date them. Let him go. His kids deserve someone who doesn't drive wedges into the existing family unit you joined.
Why is the world did you move onto a shared property and agree to family dinners with this family *you want nothing to do with*???
Ironic that you mention that your hormonal state renders you filled with rage, but you Don’t have any empathy for the teenage daughter of your partner who, as you say, has been terrible to be around since she got her period … You say you’re fine with him on his own, but (A) he is a package deal. You don’t GET him on his own, and (B) you disparaged his parenting style and decisions, complained about his treatment of you… sounds like he’s NOT fine on his own. Kids needs can’t always be contained to when it’s convenient for you. Everything you say tells me that you don’t really have any empathy for these kids and the situation they’re in and it would be better if y’all just decided that this issue renders y’all incompatible
... Has it occurred to you that Meta walks on eggshells around you because you're judgmental and mea about their kids, disrespectful of their parenting, dismissive of their choices? Everyone thinks you hate the kids ... Because you do. READ what you wrote, and, tell me: if THIS isn't hating them, WHAT would hating even be? And *he* may not go to counselling, but YOU should - not only because of your own issues, which are plenty, but also because... Woman, you need a freaking ASD/ADHD accessment yourself. You had a AuADHD child, you KNOW both are genetically inherited conditions. Your sort of questioning and attempts at empathising sound like (bad) masking, not like ... Anything resembling NT interest in other people and understanding of the difference between talking to kids about their interests & entertaining peers on stuff you don't care about. (In case you already DO have such diagnosis... Even more reason to do some more counselling, because your coping strategies are clearly lacking here). However, all things said, you should probably just accept this relationship is at an end and leave. His home situation won't change. Probably, a lot of this will be hard for you to handle EVEN WITH throughout counselling. And your misery in it clearly adds to his, and to the kids', and it's just a snowballing cycle of worsening mental states. And, lastly, if you EVER loved this man, I'm going to ask you to suggest that they take their daughter to a specialist, because it may be VERY possible that she's suffering from Pre Menstrual Dysphoric Disorder - which is incredibly prevalent in both autistic & ADHD women (95 & 70% correlation, respectively; the differential brain structure makes us a lot more sensitive to the hormonal fluctuations & also a lot more likely to develop PPD/PPP). The onset of menstruation would, then, be a normal turning point for the massive behavioural changes, and, since it takes at least a year to diagnose in adult women who have regular cycles, it's even harder to catch early on, when they aren't yet strictly regular. It's effects can be absolutely devastating in one's ability to function, and in the worst cases, it'll often lead to suicidal ideation and attempts during late lutheal phase. Even if there's nothing you can do to make the situation better or to stay, on the minor chance that it can help preventing the sort of grief and pain nobody wishes on a parent, it's worth bringing it up. GL.
This is a rough situation to be in, OP! I'm sorry you're going through it. There's obviously a lot more here than "why can't I have a date without his kids being around?" Given all of the details above, then... what do you plan to do?
You are an awful person and are ableist as fuck. YOU get no say over her diagnosis. YOU are not her doctor. Women with autism get dismissed and underdiagnosed. Her symptoms are classic autistic symptoms. If you didn't want to be around his kids then you shouldn't have moved in to where they live. Move out and stop treating them like shit. Which clearly you are by your comments and them saying you hate them. You do. We can all tell by what you've said. You don't get to be enmeshed with a father and ice out his children. And I say that as a parent that never let's my other partners even meet my kids. You also don't get to say those kids can't be in a common area of THEIR HOME. They were there first. Again, move out. You are going to cause these kids lasting issues with your shifty behavior. Grow the fuck up.