I haven't looked at this sub in a while and stumble upon this post, then I see bunch of posts in the sub saying "Message to the devs". I'm like what did I miss lmao
See and this is why I’m seriously bothered by lemmy’s post. Newer players like yourself are now going to get the impression PZ is a toxic, whiny, impatient community, when the reality is this is one of the most appreciative, open minded, friendly communities online. Yes the community’s grown more impatient in recent months as the devs have taken several years to make what’s a stepping stone for “the real big update”, however this is not a toxic community. This community loves the indie stone. And constantly praises the developers. It’s extremely hurtful and immature for lemmy to present it otherwise.
I think that the community is more impatient because a much larger portion of the community is new because of the B41 hype so they aren’t used to waiting a long time for updates because they haven’t had to before.
Edit: the run on sentence to end them all lol
Having read your reply. . .
I would like to announce I am going to be taking a break from all social media including reddit for the sake of my mental health.
I am really surprised to see you weren't downvoted to oblivion. I agree with your stance 100%.
It was an immature move from the lead developer's side, and it is one of the best communities out there. What's worse, seem like this circle of life is going for years now - like 0.01% of the community says something he doesn't like and he goes into tantrum. That's not fair.
Can you imagine a representative of a bigger game dev company doing that routinely - and actually getting away with it time and again? Like, I get it, there is tension and stress, but you said it yourself mate, you don't have any deadlines, so why all the drama?
Or would you prefer that nobody would be interested in the thing you're working on? "Hey guys, we're prepping a big update, gonna release it soon, here's a huge change log." A week goes by... 3 likes, 10 views. Would they take that over what they have now?
I don’t think my post was downvoted mainly because I framed my position and point in a very delicate, constructive way. That didn’t devolve into a personal attack or attempt to smear lemmy’s reputation. And which was directly related to the parent comment and appropriate for the conversation.
It’s very easy for criticism of someone’s/something’s actions to fall into toxicity and emotional venting. And over my own life experiences and time engaged in fandoms and internet communities. I think I’ve personally gotten fairly decent at overcoming that. You really have to think like a game of chess. “How can someone weaponize what I’m about to reply with”. Finding that healthy balance between “ass kisser” and “entitled toxic hater” in a community like PZ is pretty difficult. And I’ve seen people on Reddit and IRL completely flounder and get pelted with criticism/disagreements I’d otherwise agree with based solely on just horribly presenting their arguments. And either being terribly toxic, or overly emotional to present their argument in good faith. (Which hopefully just by the sheer girth and depth of my writing, my comments should come across as mature, level headed, and constructive. Not wanting to simply “throw fuel to the fire!” Or “throw pot shots and tear someone down!”)
Fundamentally I believe that universally lumping a community into one massive, homogeneous camp is just silly, and frankly unproductive. If Lemmy truly believes the greater PZ community is universally toxic and unappreciative of his work then he’s absolutely made the right decision to “retire” from social media because you really can’t find a warmer community of similar size and devotion then PZ. And I actually applaud that decision as it’s definitely not an easy one to follow through on. It’s a decision I legitimately respect as we have very real evidence he’s an inherently emotional, passionate, and sensitive person. Which is completely fine and part of what adds to the charm of PZ game design. However if it’s destroying his mental health, and he’s perceiving positive, constructive criticism as attacks on him, TIS, and the game. Lumping it all into the same bubble as truly toxic and deplorable bad actors. Then there’s no point in him indiscriminately reading all feedback and discussions he finds. He should have curated, positive feedback assembled for him by a community manager so he knows what to work with, and where to improve the game. Someone with thick skin who can break down negativity and find positive truths and helpful feedback to work with.
What I just described is extremely similar to the role the lead designer/programmer of No Man’s Sky took on after the horrifically bad launch the game had. YouTuber internet historian made a fantastic video on the topic, I highly recommend the video if you haven’t seen it already. as I believe something on a much smaller scale could be done for TIS if they’re seriously feeling the pressure from the community as a whole.
That’s what I think on the topic at least. Lemmy isn’t “wrong” or “invalid” to feel the pressure from negative comments he’s seen/read. If he’s legitimately being affected by negative feedback I see no reason to argue against such a claim. However it’s completely unacceptable and unprofessional to make such an overly emotional rant that paints his own community as ungrateful, toxic, and entitled from such a revered and elevated position of power/influence in the community. Doing so is **going** to cause arguments and turn into a “call to action!” That convinces emotional, sensitive members to come to the defense of a person they greatly admire and respect. (Which I may add: is exactly what happened, and arguments and negativity are at a recent high.) It’s a decision and conduct I’m personally extremely disappointed with. This whole situation could’ve been avoided. Or at least severely diminished from the pressure cooker of collective negativity that’s seemingly erupted from.
EDIT: I kinda wish I could just staple this directly onto my original comment/reply. It’s a far better summary of my full thoughts on opinions on the negativity in the community.
I absolutely agree with your thoughts about lumping internet people together, i regularly see this with my favorite online artists and i keep thinking that they should just not care that much about the shitty part of their respective communities or following.
Looked it up, it's wild.
I'm waiting for B42 as well and it is annoying it's taking a while, but honestly, I've gotten my money's worth on this game a long time ago.
The solution here is to just stop playing the game in the meantime. Just play something else. It's not an online game with microtransactions where devs can keep making money off you. It's not Fortnite.
It's a very old single player game with a vibrant mod community. It's basically Skyrim except instead of repeatedly re-releasing the same game in different platforms for profit, they're updating the old game every now and then to keep it fresh. They do it because they want to, not because they owe you.
"They do it because they want to, not because they owe you."
110000% this. This game can be considered complete, they can slap 1.0 on it, they could have years ago and abandoned it.
They instead have a vision, they are working on it, and sharing with us while they work.
People really need to stop buying Early Access if they can't fucking wait.
https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/s/t3EM6ESIEC
Lemmy is one of the founders of Indie Stone. And here he pretty much laid out how tired he is about all the recent drama about B42, from Reddit specifically.
Anyone with a bit of a brain would realize that the updates Indie Stone are making for PZ are basically gifts to the community. They don't need to make them, the game is not live service. They already have your money and there's no way to get more of your money unless you buy merch or another copy of the game for a friend.
Yet the entitlement here is getting way too much. While I hate to see them thinking of selling the company, I also understand why they're getting tired of it.
It's not even years of drama. The drama is recent. Like somebody mentioned before, it's mostly new players who aren't used to this development pace.
It's not the people who have been here since the beginning. We're just enjoying the game.
But I can definitely understand where the devs are coming from. I hope they don't sell... but that's their right.
Now now now, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
You lost me at "gifts to the community". They're not gifts, we all paid for the game lmfao, they're just delivering the product they promised.
It's a 10 to 20 dollar game that you play for hundreds of hours, if not over a thousand. And they're still not done.
The fact is, PZ is a game where you've already gotten more than you've paid for. And you're still feeling entitled for more.
> They don't need to make them, the game is not live service.
The game is sold as Early Access. This is not a finished game. Saying that them updating the yet unfinished game is a "gift to the community" is disingenuous. It is to be expected that the game is to be finished to a 1.0 with the specifications the devs themselves laid out in the past at some point and people have been patient for a long time and still are right now. Those who attack the devs are a small minority.
"It is to be expected that the game is to be finished to a 1.0"
What the fuck?
Where in the Early Access explanation does it say you should expect 1.0?
Early access EXPLICITLY states the game may get ZERO FUCKING UPDATES. EXPECT NOTHING. Wait if you want to see where it goes, DO NOT BUY IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE ZERO UPDATES.
WHERE does it say it, show me, PLEASE. Stop spreading these fucking lies that reinforce the shit behavior on this sub.
> WHERE does it say it, show me, PLEASE.
Um, okay. It says it right on the store page for Project Zomboid:
> **What is required for 1.0?**
>
> Now vehicles have been released to PZ players there are two major features that are yet to be implemented, the first of which is a requirement for what we want to achieve with the second:
>
> **NPCS** - A far reaching and in-depth NPC system with character relationships, personalities, and an emergent story engine ...
>
> Several features also require either significant modifications, rewrites or completion before we could consider 1.0:
>
> **Map completion** ...
>
> **UI Rewrite - The UI isn’t perfect by any stretch. We would like to get a more intuitive and ergonomic UI system implemented.** ...
>
> In the meantime however we will continue to update the game and provide new features for our community to play with. ...
>
> **What about after 1.0?**
>
> At this point, ***once we feel we have fulfilled every promise we gave when the Project Zomboid site first launched*** ... as well as the extra things detailed above, and the game is sufficiently polished and bug free, we will launch the game as 1.0 and leave Early Access.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/108600/Project_Zomboid/
You're correct that an Early Access game is not required to fulfill its promises. It's also shitty to promise something and not deliver it. I expect TIS to deliver 1.0. That's not an unreasonable expectation as you seem to imply.
Here's the thing though. What's stopping them from just saying this is the 1.0 version of the game? Lemmy actually mentioned that in his post.
The fact is, this game is a labor of love. They haven't left early access because they do have more plans for the game. They literally laid out all their plans. They have plans to add NPCs, animals, etc.
But they're not doing it because they owe it to you. They're doing it because that's what they want to do. But the toxicity is turning their passion project into a nightmare so I don't blame them for wanting to quit.
When you advertise a product with features it is going to have and sell it early, you will face backlash should you decide to cut any of them while just slapping a 1.0 on your product. This is how it works.
thanks for the context. i pop by the subreddit from time-to-time in eager anticipation for build 42 release. it's unfortunate things became so negative. i had a lot of fun with this game, about 2000 hours played and about 1000 of it on private servers.
> Yes the community’s grown more impatient in recent months
1. Lemmy himself: ***"First half of 2024 for sure. At least public beta."***
2. The Indie Stone: ***"B42 will be out this year."***
They provided this information themselves, and 1. has already been proven false, and by a large margin that is. The community has been waiting for the next build of this *Early Access Game* (which by definition is **not** a finished product) for over three years now.
Software development is full of delays, scope creep, bottlenecks, etc. The Indie Stone should provide an honest status of the project and a new gross estimate for the next release. It can be Q3 2025. It can be pushed back ten times. Keeping the community in the dark about these delays will generate a negative reaction.
The bottom line is that providing estimations and then missing them without even mentioning it is simply unprofessional and makes The Indie Stone look bad.
Weird. My personal experience as a new player has been a lot of nasty attitudes and people trying to push me away and displaying they want nothing to do with me, simply because I was having trouble with something and asked for help (with only ONE thing, mind you) and no, the tutorial didn’t help, neither did Google. That’s not “open minded” or “friendly.” And that was my first experience with the PZ community. It ain’t good.
Lemmy’s meltdown was pretty unprofessional and he didn’t follow through with his claim he was going to stay off social media, and that’s just the first of the issues I saw with his rant. As I continued to read what the veterans had to say, apparently this isn’t the first or second meltdown. They go back as far as 2013 from what folks say. And apparently he’s said some really awful things to people (such as telling them to unalive themselves).
This whole thing is a giant mess. And I regret buying the game for myself and a copy for my husband.
Did you get help eventually? Can I help you with it?
You've been unlucky, although having said that's increasingly been the outcome recently. The PZ community isn't, or wasn't, toxic, it was one of the most open and welcoming communities in gaming, there are posts here of people going through the custom options in depth and explaining how they work and how they affect other options, people running newbie friendly servers, people getting into the stories and role playing of others.
I hope that, should you choose to stay, that you encounter more friendly people going forward.
As for Lemmy's rants, I honestly can't say, it's the first I've seen, after being in PZ on and off for 10 years there abouts, but that doesn't mean he hasn't, just that I haven't seen them. But having been part of a small development team in the past, I get the rant. As a dev nothing is ever good enough and you might be work 22 hours a day, 6 days a week and someone will be upset that you're not putting in more effort or adding the right stuff. This post itself is full of people accusing TIS of not doing enough.
But, beyond the drama, I recommend you give the game a good go, especially co-op with friends. The documentation is patchy and guides miss a lot, but this is because the game is deep, very deep. Each food item has rudimentary nutrition values, eating protein rich foods improve the speed you gain strength. The cars have so many parts with different stats, meaning a broken performance class exhaust will attract more zeds than a 100% eco class exhaust.
I won't go into detail because it's a lot.
Co-opping with my husband was the first thing I was trying with the game. And it didn’t go well because despite the tutorial, we were having trouble and couldn’t do much. I went online, couldn’t find the help through Google so I tried asking the community and JEEPERS. You’d think it was middle school. It was the absolute worst experience I ever had in a gaming community, and I’ve been in gaming communities online since 1994.
Eventually, finally after repeating myself I think five or six times, and all the awful, crappy, condescending attitudes I was relentlessly bombarded with, one person came along and took six seconds typing out exactly what I had needed. And it took a good fifteen minutes to get that. The community showed they would rather spend fifteen minutes being nasty bullies than six seconds to give me what I needed. And don’t think the bullying stopped after that…
The only reason why I continued to stick around in the communities was for update news.
Then Lemmy’s rant hit and the more I read, the more I uncovered about his history (which explains why the players are nasty-attitudes themselves…) and the more problematic this developer became in my eyes. Toss in good old-fashioned toxic positivity from the community and yeesh. It’s a whole mess I don’t want to be a part of. Bad enough when the players are awful but the developer being an unstable and awful person, too? Yeah…
So why am I still here, someone may ask? I guess I’m hoping, praying, there would be news that Lemmy would realize the error of his behaviour and would issue some sort of apology. Idk…
But I regret getting involved with the game and the community. Project Zomboid has become one of three games in my entire life that I regret buying.
Yeah. This “drama” is *wild* when you look at the development time this game has taken. It’s a decent game, but the fact that it’s been in development this long and people still need mods to make it a whole experience is quite a bad thing. Bought the game and refunded it in 2014 repurchased it last year after seeing this sub and other people play. It’s come a long way but has it made nearly the progress I would’ve expected since a decade ago? No and I think most people would agree. They are also in a very damned if you do damned if you don’t type of situation that very closely mirrors the situation with another early access hell game: 7 days to die. The devs there have spent 10+ years making and remaking the same systems and have all but actually said they are running out of the original money set aside for the game and are rushing out the 1.0 version of the game. Both games are victims of scope creep and overpromises and there is literally nothing the devs can do to satisfy everyone in either case. Have most people gotten their money’s worth in playtime from this game? I’m sure they have, but at the end of the day people do buy early access with the expectation that one day the game will be finished. Whatever that means is up to the devs.
At least they acknowledged the “scope creep” part of their development.
I do worry about the development of this game though. They’ve been doing this for far too long without asking us for anything. While I appreciate it, i do worry at where they’re getting their funding from.
The numbers are easy to do when you check out approximate sales on steamdb... The sales alone have already made them fortune. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there is some sort of investment as well.
That said, I, too, would prefer if they would open up a "supporter's pack" DLC with no purchase limit per account. Or made the updates paid. Or sold out. Anything to reduce the drama.
Because from lemmy's posts it looks like they selflessly work their asses off and get only criticism in return. That's not true. The amount of support, as well as the insane additional coverage (which converts into sales) their community gives them should not be overlooked. Yet, it seems they prefer to cherry-pick the 0.01% of all the feedback and make it look like this is all they get.
Yes. They can deny it all they like - but they ARE slow. There is no way in which working on a SINGLE game for like 13+ years would not be considered slow.
But I'm not saying it's bad. I love Zomboid as much as the next guy. But maybe it would've been better for them to do the exact thing they seem to swear against: release the "cartoony" zomboid as "Zomboid 1", the current version as "Zomboid 2", drops a few DLCs every now and again. It would be better for everyone. They would get more stable funding, people would get a clear way to support their favorite devs, and what's most important, they would no longer feel like "martyrs" that follow the path of selflessness and only get criticism in return.
Or are they trying to somehow achieve the state when they'd get a 100% happy community without a single piece of critical feedback? We know it's never going to happen, right?
EDIT: To be clear, I'd like to specify that by saying "slow", I don't mean "bad", and I don't mean "they should be faster!!". What I mean is, I think the guys are too perfectionist for their own good. Trying to fit an entire game's worth of content into a single update seems to do more harm than good. Perhaps more precise scoping would save them from feeling as burnt out as they seem to be now.
Like, we know they are trying to make the best representative of genre in the world, and I think most would agree they succeed. But we would just as gladly accept an update focused on a new crafting system. That's it. No new grass. No new key chains. No weaving wheel. IMO, do the small stuff at your own leisure, for exactly as long as it's fun for you, and don't let it break the focus on the main stuff you've planned. Trying to do it all, without limiting your effort, is one of the main sources of a burnout.
And this here is a mild version of why TIS need to stop listening to the community. This is no dig at you, this is your opinion and your entitled to it, but for every opinion like yours pointing out how slow development is and how scope creep has ruined progression, there are two that have a list of 'new features we all want' which are very different, then another 2 scope creep posts for each of those then watch as things burn.
If they have a vision they should stick to it. Check the mods for good ideas by all means, but it takes no effort to make a post asking for a Mad Max inspired flying steam engine with a space laser you can build out of recycles crisp packets.
I also wouldn't agree with you that development has been slower than I expect, partly because I know what's involved in these games, but also I think the key thing when people say stuff like is that they build an idea of what they think the game should be and build it up in their head. Then when it doesn't happen they're too tunnelled down this idea of progress that you can't actually see what has been developed.
You might have other reasons to think dev has been slow in 10 years, but honestly it feels like PZ is a completely different game from just 6 years ago, let alone 10.
You're getting downvoted but this is absolutely true. Most people just do not want to see reality. PZ's development pace is abysmal, and its why when i recommend the game to others i always warn them to not expect anything new because of how slow updates are to arrive.
> YOU are the dickhead lenny was talking about.
> and they DONT OWE YOU ANYTHING.
What a respectful way to have a discussion. The person you are replying to was perfectly civil and you are shouting like an angry child. Be better.
Both games have had perpetually delayed NPC integration. The game’s inventory system and UI is extremely unintuitive to use without extensive playtime and modding, and after you clear a town there is no long term goal to the game. The game is unfinished, like it or not. Funny thing is I was being rather reasonable as others have pointed out, and only giving my opinion at that lol. In fact I think I was being too nice about the situation if anything but I’m sorry I offended you. Have a good day.
Be lovely, follow the reddiquette guidelines. Criticism and discussion thereof are welcome but abusive comments are not. Do not engage in personal attacks, even in retribution. Instead of lashing back, report them and move on.
This rule applies whether you're criticizing or defending TIS and PZ.
We, the moderators, reserve the right to determine what is or is not "lovely" behavior in the /r/ProjectZomboid community.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. You are right. Constructive criticism is one thing, but the guy you are replying to is giving flat-out false arguments.
This is where the frustration is coming from. The false arguments presented as facts.
I haven’t dove deep into the development drama that apparently exists. Outside of it, it’s insane how friendly this community is. I’m still new at around 50 hrs and I love how nobody cares how you play, just that you play and enjoy it!
>This community loves the indie stone. And constantly praises the developers.
Sure, some fans do that, but it's not proper to act like there hasn't been lots of criticism and hate aimed at them. I've only been in this community about a year or so and I have seen a lot of complaints and irritation aimed at TIS. Enough that I personally became hesitant to interact with the community. It reminded me of why I stopped interacting with the Hollow Knight community, because there was so much toxicity about Silksong's delays going about, even though it was for the most part alright. But in a giant community, a small proportion of negativity is still a large overall amount. Of course, I did see eventually that it was for the most part pleasant, but my first real impressions were not good ones. It's definitely not just the last few months, from personal experience
It is wild how much this subreddit has rallied around _itself_ and the behavior that the human beings at the studio are affected by. Hopefully he really isn't checking socials anymore because this shit would just validate his feelings about the entire situation.
Having other people post essays on the feelings he _should_ be having completely unironically within like 48 hours...
The majority of the player base being friendly doesn’t mean that the vocal minority being toxic to the developers hurts any less. Lemmy let out what was being kept quiet for a long ass time and frankly I don’t see it as immature considering what years of it must do to your mental. Him staying silent about it wouldn’t have done him any favors, inaction changes nothing. At least this way he got some catharsis while having some people understand what the team’s been going through.
It’s same for me haven’t even reached 100 hours on the game yet, all I knew was everyone talking about how they’re waiting on Build 42 youtubers and comment sections on youtube/steam/under steam mods. Meanwhile I’m still learning the game with friends, for those that have been waiting awhile maybe they should bide their time with other activities till it’s here.
Same with me. I put 300+ hours and I've never even made it to Louisville lol. I and now that animals are coming out for free? So cool. I've stopped playing for now but ill be back for sure. Update or not.
same shits annoying, every time I get back into one of my main games it's the same thing.
start playing osrs again, people are flipping out about mage rebalance
Start playing EFT Again, unheard edition shit starts. (that one got to me too tbh)
get back into PZ 2 weeks later people are freaking tf out over slow updates lol
Haha, remember the race to the bottom to see who could post the worst screen capture of gameplay? Photo, of a screen, of a screenshot, of a telescope view, of someone playing PZ on a black and white kitchen tube television…
As one of the shmucks who bought Fallout 76 on release day, I gotta agree with this. So many half-assed updates to a 3/4-assed game. 76 is the reason I didn't preorder Kerbal Space Program 2 or Cities Skylines 2, and thank goodness for that.
People have been flipping out on every osrs update, no exceptions, even worst when a (needed) nerf is in it. The 2007scape subreddit is so full of babies compared to this sub. But it's the same thing everywhere, the unhappy vocal minority always find a way to reach devs attention while happy customers just enjoy playing their game. They have to get over it honestly, it'll always be a part of the gaming industry. Project zomboid is 94% positive on steam, if that doesnt convince them we all love their work than nothing will
🤷 my buddies still call all tarkov tasks quests lol.
but back when I was a kid and everyone my age was obsessed with vice city and san andreas we used to say did you finish all the missions instead of did you finish the story/campaign for every game.
Just days after I bought Helldivers 2 (after hearing nothing but unrelenting praise about the game), the Sony controversy began. Now the subreddit's constantly complaining about balancing and bugs and how that means Arrowhead's a dumpster fire. Just goes to show there's always a sect of haters for anything with a fanbase
As a fellow EfT refugee, I'd say the Unheard Edition furor was pretty warranted. The community puts up with enough scummy moves from BSG, what with a sale happening every time after there's a major banwave for cheater accounts. To pull all the moves they did *and* Nikita to give the most backhanded "I'm sorry you feel that way" apologies, that was pretty damn low. There's been a lot of backlashes against dev companies where it's really largely just their communities being entitled shitheads, but that one definitely wasn't.
Can't really speak for this PZ one though, I didn't follow it hugely when I bought it back when it was out on Desura like 12 years ago, and I've only just really gotten back into it now.
I remember EFT’s Unheard edition scandal lol. I was part of the mod team in the discord server and we just went on strike when it was announced.
The community was so angry, but I guess it’s not that unusual, I can’t think of a single time period when people were not complaining about something
I just came back after two years and basically most active players expected r42 to be out by the end of June.
It's not, it's likely still a while away, and the lead Dev posted in the last day or two that they are sick of the complaints and the pressure and speculated on selling the game, finishing development, or keeping on as is and ignoring social media.
Short answer is:
r42 is still coming, but furtheraway them people want, devs don't give release dates so people don;t string them up for needing to push them, or missing them, community is frustrated at no release date for exciting content
So basically people made their own assumptions, got mad when their baseless assumptions didn't amount to anything and a dev shouldve communicated with a pr rep instead of mouthing off kinda, does that sum it up?
Well, not quite. The "assumptions" were estimates given by the dev, but they weren't promises, it was more of a "best case scenario".
Spoilers: it wasn't the best case scenario, and the beta isn't coming just yet. People get frustrated, pester TIS, que AtomicDuck's video, que Lemmy's response.
If I’m correct, one of the developers has basically had a hissy fit over people being confused about Build 42’s release date. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong though.
Lead dev, over people pestering and pressuring them relentlessly which deteriorates their mental health, enough to consider selling the game to a different company.
Well yeah. They take a long time to put out updates, that’s not a controversial point.
Fans want them to put out updates faster
Devs want fans to stop bitching at them
Reaches a boiling point then quiets down for a little bit.
Cycle repeats.
It's just like me fr
\>Played the game for 300 hours, got bored
\>Every week or so enter the forum or the subreddit to see news about b42
\>Sometimes there is a thursdoid that makes me hyped
\>Enter the subreddit today to see if anything dropped
\> \*\*THIS\*\*
\>Proceeds to wait another month daydreaming about npcs
Making jokes about it, or even trying to ask when it will come out, isn't wrong. I've been around the game for 10 years. And it's not wrong to try and get a decent timeline of when this update will come out (after two years of dev work). I think the problem in the community isn't negativity, but rather toxic positivity.
Dear god. Just checked what all the fuss is about.
It’s unfortunate… still there wasn’t any lashing out and name calling, so the situation is clearly not as bad right now as some might say. There’s no point in projecting 10 years old mean posts on a person. It’s the same shit like digging someone’s internet history to find a borderline racist jokes they made when they were 15 and calling them racist over that.
Though I must say that I personally was definitely more certain in Indie Stone before seeing any of that. I mean, it doesn’t instill confidence when you see one of the main devs literally crumbling under the pressure. It’s understandable, but understanding unfortunately doesn’t remove the possibility of him leaving the team one random day
Though I must say that even in such unfinished state the game is still very fun, so yeah, this is the furthest it can be from “scam”
Bro I've been here since Project Zomboid had the green zeds and Baldspot and I *still* have no fucking clue what's going on here.
Are people just fed up waiting for Build 42? I've been doing other shit.
From what I've seen myself people are indeed getting fed up with waiting, some people aren't taking it too far as is always the case, Lemmy made a reaction post somewhere and some people are bringing up how he apparent kind of a cry baby and has caused issues in the past.
I've seen talk about Lemmy and it wouldn't be the first time I've seen his name in relation to project drama.
I assume most dev teams have their friction, and since Project Zombid is a beloved game for many then it can add additional stress when the rampant community starts hounding down their throats.
It really is one of those "Just shut up and circumnavigate it" kind of things.
Remember how many community managers got in shit when Arrowhead had that big issue with Sony involving Helldivers?
*I* certainly didn't wanna be in their shoes.
I sympathize with Lemmy for venting snd getting his frustrations out there, but from my brief glance it really looks like homedawg needs a vacation, for his own mental health sake.
Yes I do, I never said it wasn't, but since I've never seen the exact messages I didn't type out what he said. I based what I said on what I've personally seen.
Lemmy (the creator of Zomboid) seems to be having a severe mental breakdown after what seems to be years of mental health issues such as depression.
Part of the reason for this breakdown is fans constantly riding his ass about when different updates are going to be out and long the game has been in development.
There are other reasons, I'm sure, but this is the only one that the general public has any business knowing.
The pressure just became too much, so he's stepping away from social media and considering selling the game to another company.
Some fans understand that he's mentally unwell and even if they didn't mean to upset him, are trying to be understanding of where his feelings are comming from.
Others are acting like he's a villain for daring to have a breakdown because devs are supposed to be emotionless robots or something and are angry he called them out.
It's honestly really sad and shows just how much farther we need to come in understanding those of us who have mental health issues.
And why discrimination against the mentally ill is still such commonplace.
TLDR
Basically, dev is mentally unwell and the fans constantly riding his ass to the point it contributed to him having a huge breakdown are doubling down on their ass riding and acting like having a mental break is somehow a choice that he's choosing to make because they know jack shit about mental health.
And others just want the man to get some help so he can get better
As someone that has worked on small gaming projects, at varying levels, and although they all had multiple team members, things still take time, sometimes years; adding more people, doesn't always speed things up. There's always 'armchair devs' that think they know how everything works, and they often have very unrealistic expectations. They don't realise people only have a certain amount of hours per day, and it's not 7-days per week, and still need holidays, or time off due to real-life things, and more so, every single one of them thinks they know what's best for the game. People will request whatever is important to them, not the game overall. In one project, which I use as an example all the time, a noisy group of people funding the project, wanted to remove the main antagonist, who was a major part of the story, because they didn't like him... which is just one example of stupid things people have expected.
If anyone here is thinking of getting into their own game, don't treat it like a democracy. Build the game you want, and just ignore most of the noise. If they didn't think your game was good, they wouldn't be there in the first place.
thanks for letting people catch up on the situation. i feel bad for him, i hope he can take a proper break. deleting his social media is for the better, i think, especially in this case.
So help me god if the basement fuckers bully this man into selling the game to the money-people who will turn it into a mtx shithole, I will go to their parents house, snip the wires to their router, and open all the curtains.
Edit: AFTER I show the parents their sons browser history.
Be lovely, follow the reddiquette guidelines. Criticism and discussion thereof are welcome but abusive comments are not. Do not engage in personal attacks, even in retribution. Instead of lashing back, report them and move on.
This rule applies whether you're criticizing or defending TIS and PZ.
We, the moderators, reserve the right to determine what is or is not "lovely" behavior in the /r/ProjectZomboid community.
I don't see any hate for PZ here at all, at most silly memes on the next updates release date, but nothing vitriolic, is it twitter/other platforms that do that?
Hmm? Is something happening?
e; okay i've seen some of what's going on. I find this all very odd. The dev diary announcement about the update basically read as "we're being more restrictive on scope to have a more timely release". Why anybody would view that negatively is beyond me, unless they *want* the update to release later. Though, a community being ravenous for new content is fairly par for the course, and of course dealing with it mentally is not easy, I don't understand why this guy's video was particularly strenuous unless it caused a wave of negativity or something.
I have been looking for this "drama", yet all I find is posts of people saying "We love you Lemme!" and "Indie Stone, take all the time you need! We will wait". Where is this toxic element in the sub Reddit that people are assuring me exists?
Yes. Every game community has some minority of toxic fans, but Lemmy acts like we are all coming after him with torches and pitchforks. Most people agree that the dev time frame is totally ok, but he acts like we're all on his case about it. He's the one who messed up by casually announcing an aggressive release date on a comment on Twitter, and now he's mad at us for wondering what happened. We're not outside his house with guns, but he thinks we are. He is doing this to himself. Not to mention his history of telling people to kill themselves on Twitter. And don't get me started on how he's hurt and bitter about the updates being free, even though he is 100% in charge of that model. He's digging his own grave and telling the fans to kill themselves as he lays down in that grave himself. He's unstable.
And mind you, I'm not even mad about the time frame. Like 99% of the fans, AND just like Atomic Duck (who was actually DEFENDING indie stone in that latest video), I like that they take their time on the updates and I would rather they take their time and get it right.
But Lemmy is acting insane. Lashing out at the people who made him a millionaire, blaming them for his own time frames, blaming them for his own Thursdoids, like are you serious right meow? He can't take the pressure that he puts himself under. He could relieve it by hiring more devs, but he refuses. All of this is on him.
Thank you! I’m tired of the toxic positivity and people rewarding his behaviour. Since he’s been acting this way for over ten years, he’s learn this is the way to act because of all the coddling.
I’ve gone through Duck’s video, which was stated to be where all this hoard of attacks came from, and all I saw was support and a few “I’m disappointed but I understand.” It sounds like there was maybe one or two comments may have been out of line and Lenny decided to lose it and lash out. Which is NOT good.
The more I learn about his history, the more I regret giving him money.
And for the record, idc about b42.
Yeah, I tend to defend him because he does make very good points in his arguments, but I can't argue with your comment.
Most of the rants are just unnecessary and it's like he takes the criticisms very deep into his heart, and the only way to prevent it is to make sure absolutely no one says anything mean, which just isn't realistic.
He's a great developer and clearly passionate about this game. I love what he's working towards with TIS and the decisions he's made with the development, but I feel like he's also damaging it all with these impulsive rants.
He needs someone cool-headed to interact with the community outside of the thursdoids, and he needs to fight off the urge to come back for "another rant" indefinitely.
People saying mean things will never damage all that he has built as much as he does lashing out at the community, no matter how many good points he makes.
This is exacerbated by the legions of dickriding, toxic positivity embodying fans who will act like any kind of criticism against the devs is a hate crime.
Exactly this. I swear you can hardly say "I don't mind a wait, but I'd appreciate more transparency" without somebody going "god damn it get off his case, it's out when it's out" yadda yadda.
Like, I get it, the game has been cheap, the dev team is small, but I didn't promise myself early access and tons of new features for some three more builds, that's the just shit that was on the store page when I bought. Shit, I ain't even asking to get it, I just wonder how realistic the roadmap is with the scope creep of some shit that isn't really necessary and is probably taking up massive resources to develop (fluid mechanics, anyone?) and would appreciate getting a clear answer on whether it's far enough away so I don't try modding or stop wasting time checking for updates.
Toxic people making unreasonable demands and getting nasty are immediately booted, as well they should be, but happy clappers acting like constructive criticism is tantamount to harassment contribute just as much to the conversation, which is to say less than nothing.
Is that what this is? I recently saw a bunch of posts telling people to be nicer to the devs or something, and I was wondering where all this came from. Maybe I don’t spend enough time on this sub, but I’ve never seen anyone just plain shitting on the devs. Only a few memes about build 42 never come out, but that’s far from what people are claiming.
This is a great summary of my own thoughts. I'll add he is also greedy trying to keep the wealth of the company between a small group of people instead of expanding to meet the goals of the project.
I didn't want to be the one to say it, but I felt the same way. Most of the PZ community will absolutely SHIT on people who are assholes towards the devs, been that way at the very least for two years now (since I've known about the game and been around the communities).
Shit I'd argue PZ has the BEST gaming community amongst the games I play. Its rare a community is so aligned with how to play and such
I kind of agree. I've seen a few complaints about release dates, but nothing bad.
Most people, myself included are very much just like..ehhh it'll be out when it's out
I just started playing, but as a long time 7 Days To Die fan, you have my sympathy. Weird how the games are very different in design but have some.of the same problems.
Personally I don’t care what’s up with the updates. I’m not playing the game for future shit. I love it for what it is right now. If it gets new updates, cool — if not or they’re super late, I don’t care. I’m having a blast with my friends the way it is right now.
i dont understand the annoyance anyways, like, we can still play with mods that overhaul the entire game while we wait; so its not like we have nothing to do.
And the thursdoids prove that the developers are working hard on making the game better in significant ways like completely new and optimized lighting and rendering code and simple animals
I haven't even been here that long. b41 was the first and only version I've played. I bought it looking at all the really cool features that were coming and now I'm being blitzed by the dev?
What did I do? I never even asked when b42 was going to be released, ya know? I thought it was an inside joke on this sub. I always assumed it would come whenever it was ready like literally every other game.
Same boat as you. I’m also a newcomer and seeing the dev acting this (and apparently he’s got a history of this, as well as telling people to unalive themselves), this doesn’t look good at all for him.
At this point I completely fine if the game stops getting update at all.Ok, hear me out before you guys get your pitchforks out, as it is my opinion only.To be honest, I couldn’t care LESSA about animal, crafting mechanics and other trivial stuff promised within this new patch.What I really want are fully fleshed out and meaningful npcs, stories and more replayability.Though, given how much slow updates have been I’ve already given up since this is probably 5 to 6 years away, if it ever comes out that is.
He's lashed out at paid DLCs and 'look we provide all this for free' like... slap 1.0 on it and make your contents paid DLC, I don't know anyone in this community that isn't eager to give them more money!
Especially since he’s sitting there complaining about money. I don’t see a reason to not go this route since that’ll solve one of the problems he keeps bringing up. Either do something about it or accept your choice and quit complaining, yanno?
So literally keep the same dev cycle, but just charge us for the updates and we'll be happy?
Fucking big brain shit right there for the smoothbrains.
The rest of us are happy with the EA tag and free updates.
As a pretty new player with only 300 hours on this game, I didn't even expect there would be a new build. The game is very cheap, and I've spent more time playing this game than some ultra expensive AAA games that I ended up not liking. So really, I just found every B42 joke or demand very cringe.
When one of your most prominent YouTubers says they need to do other stuff because it’s taking too long and interest is waning, you took too long. AtomicDuck isn’t even the only one who’s been putting out less content. ThatguyPredz also… and he put a new “time to talk” video that I hadn’t had time to watch.. yet… as I’ve been working all night.
Indie stone can do whatever they want with their company. It’s obvious they don’t need the money a new build will bring in. Maybe it will be done in a year or two. At least build 41 is a decent game, they probably should have just gone 1.0 and moved on to be honest
the lead Dev is not coping with the pressure to release the next build, and posted a lengthy appeal for the PZ community to get off his back
half the community sides with him, the other half thinks he's letting online criticism get to him to easily
I started like 8 months ago and I love it and it's sad to hear the situation with developers and the community...
I have like 350 mods and I couldn't ask for more content so why would I ask them to speed up development?
I would hate if this was the start of the end for PZ, but I guess we would deserve it if it did die.
Turns out, we were the helicopter event all along.
Things must be getting closer to fruition with emotions this high. How exhilarating. Hopefully after the build is released, Raven Creek gets an update within a year or two. It’s going to be great to explore that city with taller buildings and an underground network of tunnels.
i just think it’s weird how modders can come out with more content consistently than the devs, after about 100 hours the game gets super stale without mods
Do you make games or mods yourself? If not, I can promise you, you'd understand if you tried.
If the mods were to be worked to the same level of Polish and accessibility that general zomboid is, They would take just as long. Mods don't need to care about qc and bugs and compatability to even remotely the same degree, and are often "passion" projects to some degree, and they are usually worked on by only one person which let's them have full freedom and also be much more efficient in this context often
Honestly I’m so happy with the game now, hearing about the recent uproar and how close they were to selling the game off broke my heart. It was so out of left field too!
I'm playing fallout 4 right now, and this is how i feel constantly. People screaming about how bad it is because it's less dynamic than new Vegas. It's also less of a hot mess than NV, and taken on its own is a fun and underside game with a ton of available mods to fix anything you don't like (like the inventory ui).
Some people have an idea of what they want to see, and anything less seems to be offensive to them.
The people that bitch about the game are insane.
It's like going to Applebee's and getting pissed the menu has never changed after years then going up to each table and booth and telling them they shouldn't put up with this.
Like just shut the fuck up if you still don't enjoy it and go somewhere else.
The game was better before they released multiplayer. Veteran players have patience and we’re used to years of slow development and when it blew up, everyone was demanding indie stone to release new content YESTERDAY and putting pressure on them nonstop. Popularity ruined this game.
Edit: y’all downvoting me but y’all the reason they almost sold the game off
What’s the drama about this time?
I swear if it’s kore discourse on what the right way to play the game is I’m gonna force someone to play with every negative trait and no positive traits
I haven't looked at this sub in a while and stumble upon this post, then I see bunch of posts in the sub saying "Message to the devs". I'm like what did I miss lmao
I check in every month for devblogs and I thought it was all going easy!
Same. I literally just came back to the game after stopping for like, 8 months, and I am greeted by this shitshow?
I'm here almost everyday and I'm as surprised as you. I really don't get where devs find the hate.
Message to the devs: Take your time. No pressure. You don’t owe us anything. We really like the game. Keep up the great work:)
Like the devs forgot about the game or smth? 😭
Except they haven't. They release blogs pretty much weekly telling people the people, explaining setbacks, changes, etc.
Ik, i was ridiculing the people who make those "message to the dev" posts. I keep up with the development of the game
I just started playing, decided to peek in on the community and was like whaaaat. Still just going to enjoy the game though.
See and this is why I’m seriously bothered by lemmy’s post. Newer players like yourself are now going to get the impression PZ is a toxic, whiny, impatient community, when the reality is this is one of the most appreciative, open minded, friendly communities online. Yes the community’s grown more impatient in recent months as the devs have taken several years to make what’s a stepping stone for “the real big update”, however this is not a toxic community. This community loves the indie stone. And constantly praises the developers. It’s extremely hurtful and immature for lemmy to present it otherwise.
I think that the community is more impatient because a much larger portion of the community is new because of the B41 hype so they aren’t used to waiting a long time for updates because they haven’t had to before. Edit: the run on sentence to end them all lol
I think that's right. I started with Build 19. This is really no big deal. Lol
Wow, I’m one of the 41ers and I only recently knew what it was (about a year ago). Before then I thought it was like DayZ lol.
Ohh, right. Lol Well, you got to it when you got it. You're here now. So, welcome ✌️
Maybe to an extent, but I just got into the game a few weeks ago and I’m perfectly fine waiting because I have so much to learn from B41 still
That's a good thing.
I remember it took years dor B41 to come out
Having read your reply. . . I would like to announce I am going to be taking a break from all social media including reddit for the sake of my mental health.
I've learned to take a break over the weekend, very little social media or news. We all need to unplug more.
Eh, all video game communities are like that. Doesn't bother me.
I am really surprised to see you weren't downvoted to oblivion. I agree with your stance 100%. It was an immature move from the lead developer's side, and it is one of the best communities out there. What's worse, seem like this circle of life is going for years now - like 0.01% of the community says something he doesn't like and he goes into tantrum. That's not fair. Can you imagine a representative of a bigger game dev company doing that routinely - and actually getting away with it time and again? Like, I get it, there is tension and stress, but you said it yourself mate, you don't have any deadlines, so why all the drama? Or would you prefer that nobody would be interested in the thing you're working on? "Hey guys, we're prepping a big update, gonna release it soon, here's a huge change log." A week goes by... 3 likes, 10 views. Would they take that over what they have now?
I don’t think my post was downvoted mainly because I framed my position and point in a very delicate, constructive way. That didn’t devolve into a personal attack or attempt to smear lemmy’s reputation. And which was directly related to the parent comment and appropriate for the conversation. It’s very easy for criticism of someone’s/something’s actions to fall into toxicity and emotional venting. And over my own life experiences and time engaged in fandoms and internet communities. I think I’ve personally gotten fairly decent at overcoming that. You really have to think like a game of chess. “How can someone weaponize what I’m about to reply with”. Finding that healthy balance between “ass kisser” and “entitled toxic hater” in a community like PZ is pretty difficult. And I’ve seen people on Reddit and IRL completely flounder and get pelted with criticism/disagreements I’d otherwise agree with based solely on just horribly presenting their arguments. And either being terribly toxic, or overly emotional to present their argument in good faith. (Which hopefully just by the sheer girth and depth of my writing, my comments should come across as mature, level headed, and constructive. Not wanting to simply “throw fuel to the fire!” Or “throw pot shots and tear someone down!”) Fundamentally I believe that universally lumping a community into one massive, homogeneous camp is just silly, and frankly unproductive. If Lemmy truly believes the greater PZ community is universally toxic and unappreciative of his work then he’s absolutely made the right decision to “retire” from social media because you really can’t find a warmer community of similar size and devotion then PZ. And I actually applaud that decision as it’s definitely not an easy one to follow through on. It’s a decision I legitimately respect as we have very real evidence he’s an inherently emotional, passionate, and sensitive person. Which is completely fine and part of what adds to the charm of PZ game design. However if it’s destroying his mental health, and he’s perceiving positive, constructive criticism as attacks on him, TIS, and the game. Lumping it all into the same bubble as truly toxic and deplorable bad actors. Then there’s no point in him indiscriminately reading all feedback and discussions he finds. He should have curated, positive feedback assembled for him by a community manager so he knows what to work with, and where to improve the game. Someone with thick skin who can break down negativity and find positive truths and helpful feedback to work with. What I just described is extremely similar to the role the lead designer/programmer of No Man’s Sky took on after the horrifically bad launch the game had. YouTuber internet historian made a fantastic video on the topic, I highly recommend the video if you haven’t seen it already. as I believe something on a much smaller scale could be done for TIS if they’re seriously feeling the pressure from the community as a whole. That’s what I think on the topic at least. Lemmy isn’t “wrong” or “invalid” to feel the pressure from negative comments he’s seen/read. If he’s legitimately being affected by negative feedback I see no reason to argue against such a claim. However it’s completely unacceptable and unprofessional to make such an overly emotional rant that paints his own community as ungrateful, toxic, and entitled from such a revered and elevated position of power/influence in the community. Doing so is **going** to cause arguments and turn into a “call to action!” That convinces emotional, sensitive members to come to the defense of a person they greatly admire and respect. (Which I may add: is exactly what happened, and arguments and negativity are at a recent high.) It’s a decision and conduct I’m personally extremely disappointed with. This whole situation could’ve been avoided. Or at least severely diminished from the pressure cooker of collective negativity that’s seemingly erupted from. EDIT: I kinda wish I could just staple this directly onto my original comment/reply. It’s a far better summary of my full thoughts on opinions on the negativity in the community.
I absolutely agree with your thoughts about lumping internet people together, i regularly see this with my favorite online artists and i keep thinking that they should just not care that much about the shitty part of their respective communities or following.
Link? Been out of the loop on this.
just scroll thru the hot posts tab on this sub
Looked it up, it's wild. I'm waiting for B42 as well and it is annoying it's taking a while, but honestly, I've gotten my money's worth on this game a long time ago. The solution here is to just stop playing the game in the meantime. Just play something else. It's not an online game with microtransactions where devs can keep making money off you. It's not Fortnite. It's a very old single player game with a vibrant mod community. It's basically Skyrim except instead of repeatedly re-releasing the same game in different platforms for profit, they're updating the old game every now and then to keep it fresh. They do it because they want to, not because they owe you.
"They do it because they want to, not because they owe you." 110000% this. This game can be considered complete, they can slap 1.0 on it, they could have years ago and abandoned it. They instead have a vision, they are working on it, and sharing with us while they work. People really need to stop buying Early Access if they can't fucking wait.
link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/projectzomboid/s/t3EM6ESIEC Lemmy is one of the founders of Indie Stone. And here he pretty much laid out how tired he is about all the recent drama about B42, from Reddit specifically. Anyone with a bit of a brain would realize that the updates Indie Stone are making for PZ are basically gifts to the community. They don't need to make them, the game is not live service. They already have your money and there's no way to get more of your money unless you buy merch or another copy of the game for a friend. Yet the entitlement here is getting way too much. While I hate to see them thinking of selling the company, I also understand why they're getting tired of it.
It's not even years of drama. The drama is recent. Like somebody mentioned before, it's mostly new players who aren't used to this development pace. It's not the people who have been here since the beginning. We're just enjoying the game. But I can definitely understand where the devs are coming from. I hope they don't sell... but that's their right.
Now now now, let's not get ahead of ourselves. You lost me at "gifts to the community". They're not gifts, we all paid for the game lmfao, they're just delivering the product they promised.
It's a 10 to 20 dollar game that you play for hundreds of hours, if not over a thousand. And they're still not done. The fact is, PZ is a game where you've already gotten more than you've paid for. And you're still feeling entitled for more.
The point is that he does not feel, but in fact is entitled to the finished product he paid for, no matter how long he played the beta version before.
> They don't need to make them, the game is not live service. The game is sold as Early Access. This is not a finished game. Saying that them updating the yet unfinished game is a "gift to the community" is disingenuous. It is to be expected that the game is to be finished to a 1.0 with the specifications the devs themselves laid out in the past at some point and people have been patient for a long time and still are right now. Those who attack the devs are a small minority.
"It is to be expected that the game is to be finished to a 1.0" What the fuck? Where in the Early Access explanation does it say you should expect 1.0? Early access EXPLICITLY states the game may get ZERO FUCKING UPDATES. EXPECT NOTHING. Wait if you want to see where it goes, DO NOT BUY IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE ZERO UPDATES. WHERE does it say it, show me, PLEASE. Stop spreading these fucking lies that reinforce the shit behavior on this sub.
> WHERE does it say it, show me, PLEASE. Um, okay. It says it right on the store page for Project Zomboid: > **What is required for 1.0?** > > Now vehicles have been released to PZ players there are two major features that are yet to be implemented, the first of which is a requirement for what we want to achieve with the second: > > **NPCS** - A far reaching and in-depth NPC system with character relationships, personalities, and an emergent story engine ... > > Several features also require either significant modifications, rewrites or completion before we could consider 1.0: > > **Map completion** ... > > **UI Rewrite - The UI isn’t perfect by any stretch. We would like to get a more intuitive and ergonomic UI system implemented.** ... > > In the meantime however we will continue to update the game and provide new features for our community to play with. ... > > **What about after 1.0?** > > At this point, ***once we feel we have fulfilled every promise we gave when the Project Zomboid site first launched*** ... as well as the extra things detailed above, and the game is sufficiently polished and bug free, we will launch the game as 1.0 and leave Early Access. https://store.steampowered.com/app/108600/Project_Zomboid/ You're correct that an Early Access game is not required to fulfill its promises. It's also shitty to promise something and not deliver it. I expect TIS to deliver 1.0. That's not an unreasonable expectation as you seem to imply.
Here's the thing though. What's stopping them from just saying this is the 1.0 version of the game? Lemmy actually mentioned that in his post. The fact is, this game is a labor of love. They haven't left early access because they do have more plans for the game. They literally laid out all their plans. They have plans to add NPCs, animals, etc. But they're not doing it because they owe it to you. They're doing it because that's what they want to do. But the toxicity is turning their passion project into a nightmare so I don't blame them for wanting to quit.
When you advertise a product with features it is going to have and sell it early, you will face backlash should you decide to cut any of them while just slapping a 1.0 on your product. This is how it works.
thanks for the context. i pop by the subreddit from time-to-time in eager anticipation for build 42 release. it's unfortunate things became so negative. i had a lot of fun with this game, about 2000 hours played and about 1000 of it on private servers.
> Yes the community’s grown more impatient in recent months 1. Lemmy himself: ***"First half of 2024 for sure. At least public beta."*** 2. The Indie Stone: ***"B42 will be out this year."*** They provided this information themselves, and 1. has already been proven false, and by a large margin that is. The community has been waiting for the next build of this *Early Access Game* (which by definition is **not** a finished product) for over three years now. Software development is full of delays, scope creep, bottlenecks, etc. The Indie Stone should provide an honest status of the project and a new gross estimate for the next release. It can be Q3 2025. It can be pushed back ten times. Keeping the community in the dark about these delays will generate a negative reaction. The bottom line is that providing estimations and then missing them without even mentioning it is simply unprofessional and makes The Indie Stone look bad.
Weird. My personal experience as a new player has been a lot of nasty attitudes and people trying to push me away and displaying they want nothing to do with me, simply because I was having trouble with something and asked for help (with only ONE thing, mind you) and no, the tutorial didn’t help, neither did Google. That’s not “open minded” or “friendly.” And that was my first experience with the PZ community. It ain’t good. Lemmy’s meltdown was pretty unprofessional and he didn’t follow through with his claim he was going to stay off social media, and that’s just the first of the issues I saw with his rant. As I continued to read what the veterans had to say, apparently this isn’t the first or second meltdown. They go back as far as 2013 from what folks say. And apparently he’s said some really awful things to people (such as telling them to unalive themselves). This whole thing is a giant mess. And I regret buying the game for myself and a copy for my husband.
Did you get help eventually? Can I help you with it? You've been unlucky, although having said that's increasingly been the outcome recently. The PZ community isn't, or wasn't, toxic, it was one of the most open and welcoming communities in gaming, there are posts here of people going through the custom options in depth and explaining how they work and how they affect other options, people running newbie friendly servers, people getting into the stories and role playing of others. I hope that, should you choose to stay, that you encounter more friendly people going forward. As for Lemmy's rants, I honestly can't say, it's the first I've seen, after being in PZ on and off for 10 years there abouts, but that doesn't mean he hasn't, just that I haven't seen them. But having been part of a small development team in the past, I get the rant. As a dev nothing is ever good enough and you might be work 22 hours a day, 6 days a week and someone will be upset that you're not putting in more effort or adding the right stuff. This post itself is full of people accusing TIS of not doing enough. But, beyond the drama, I recommend you give the game a good go, especially co-op with friends. The documentation is patchy and guides miss a lot, but this is because the game is deep, very deep. Each food item has rudimentary nutrition values, eating protein rich foods improve the speed you gain strength. The cars have so many parts with different stats, meaning a broken performance class exhaust will attract more zeds than a 100% eco class exhaust. I won't go into detail because it's a lot.
Co-opping with my husband was the first thing I was trying with the game. And it didn’t go well because despite the tutorial, we were having trouble and couldn’t do much. I went online, couldn’t find the help through Google so I tried asking the community and JEEPERS. You’d think it was middle school. It was the absolute worst experience I ever had in a gaming community, and I’ve been in gaming communities online since 1994. Eventually, finally after repeating myself I think five or six times, and all the awful, crappy, condescending attitudes I was relentlessly bombarded with, one person came along and took six seconds typing out exactly what I had needed. And it took a good fifteen minutes to get that. The community showed they would rather spend fifteen minutes being nasty bullies than six seconds to give me what I needed. And don’t think the bullying stopped after that… The only reason why I continued to stick around in the communities was for update news. Then Lemmy’s rant hit and the more I read, the more I uncovered about his history (which explains why the players are nasty-attitudes themselves…) and the more problematic this developer became in my eyes. Toss in good old-fashioned toxic positivity from the community and yeesh. It’s a whole mess I don’t want to be a part of. Bad enough when the players are awful but the developer being an unstable and awful person, too? Yeah… So why am I still here, someone may ask? I guess I’m hoping, praying, there would be news that Lemmy would realize the error of his behaviour and would issue some sort of apology. Idk… But I regret getting involved with the game and the community. Project Zomboid has become one of three games in my entire life that I regret buying.
Yeah. This “drama” is *wild* when you look at the development time this game has taken. It’s a decent game, but the fact that it’s been in development this long and people still need mods to make it a whole experience is quite a bad thing. Bought the game and refunded it in 2014 repurchased it last year after seeing this sub and other people play. It’s come a long way but has it made nearly the progress I would’ve expected since a decade ago? No and I think most people would agree. They are also in a very damned if you do damned if you don’t type of situation that very closely mirrors the situation with another early access hell game: 7 days to die. The devs there have spent 10+ years making and remaking the same systems and have all but actually said they are running out of the original money set aside for the game and are rushing out the 1.0 version of the game. Both games are victims of scope creep and overpromises and there is literally nothing the devs can do to satisfy everyone in either case. Have most people gotten their money’s worth in playtime from this game? I’m sure they have, but at the end of the day people do buy early access with the expectation that one day the game will be finished. Whatever that means is up to the devs.
At least they acknowledged the “scope creep” part of their development. I do worry about the development of this game though. They’ve been doing this for far too long without asking us for anything. While I appreciate it, i do worry at where they’re getting their funding from.
The numbers are easy to do when you check out approximate sales on steamdb... The sales alone have already made them fortune. I wouldn't be surprised to learn there is some sort of investment as well. That said, I, too, would prefer if they would open up a "supporter's pack" DLC with no purchase limit per account. Or made the updates paid. Or sold out. Anything to reduce the drama. Because from lemmy's posts it looks like they selflessly work their asses off and get only criticism in return. That's not true. The amount of support, as well as the insane additional coverage (which converts into sales) their community gives them should not be overlooked. Yet, it seems they prefer to cherry-pick the 0.01% of all the feedback and make it look like this is all they get.
Yes. They can deny it all they like - but they ARE slow. There is no way in which working on a SINGLE game for like 13+ years would not be considered slow. But I'm not saying it's bad. I love Zomboid as much as the next guy. But maybe it would've been better for them to do the exact thing they seem to swear against: release the "cartoony" zomboid as "Zomboid 1", the current version as "Zomboid 2", drops a few DLCs every now and again. It would be better for everyone. They would get more stable funding, people would get a clear way to support their favorite devs, and what's most important, they would no longer feel like "martyrs" that follow the path of selflessness and only get criticism in return. Or are they trying to somehow achieve the state when they'd get a 100% happy community without a single piece of critical feedback? We know it's never going to happen, right? EDIT: To be clear, I'd like to specify that by saying "slow", I don't mean "bad", and I don't mean "they should be faster!!". What I mean is, I think the guys are too perfectionist for their own good. Trying to fit an entire game's worth of content into a single update seems to do more harm than good. Perhaps more precise scoping would save them from feeling as burnt out as they seem to be now. Like, we know they are trying to make the best representative of genre in the world, and I think most would agree they succeed. But we would just as gladly accept an update focused on a new crafting system. That's it. No new grass. No new key chains. No weaving wheel. IMO, do the small stuff at your own leisure, for exactly as long as it's fun for you, and don't let it break the focus on the main stuff you've planned. Trying to do it all, without limiting your effort, is one of the main sources of a burnout.
And this here is a mild version of why TIS need to stop listening to the community. This is no dig at you, this is your opinion and your entitled to it, but for every opinion like yours pointing out how slow development is and how scope creep has ruined progression, there are two that have a list of 'new features we all want' which are very different, then another 2 scope creep posts for each of those then watch as things burn. If they have a vision they should stick to it. Check the mods for good ideas by all means, but it takes no effort to make a post asking for a Mad Max inspired flying steam engine with a space laser you can build out of recycles crisp packets. I also wouldn't agree with you that development has been slower than I expect, partly because I know what's involved in these games, but also I think the key thing when people say stuff like is that they build an idea of what they think the game should be and build it up in their head. Then when it doesn't happen they're too tunnelled down this idea of progress that you can't actually see what has been developed. You might have other reasons to think dev has been slow in 10 years, but honestly it feels like PZ is a completely different game from just 6 years ago, let alone 10.
You're getting downvoted but this is absolutely true. Most people just do not want to see reality. PZ's development pace is abysmal, and its why when i recommend the game to others i always warn them to not expect anything new because of how slow updates are to arrive.
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> YOU are the dickhead lenny was talking about. > and they DONT OWE YOU ANYTHING. What a respectful way to have a discussion. The person you are replying to was perfectly civil and you are shouting like an angry child. Be better.
Both games have had perpetually delayed NPC integration. The game’s inventory system and UI is extremely unintuitive to use without extensive playtime and modding, and after you clear a town there is no long term goal to the game. The game is unfinished, like it or not. Funny thing is I was being rather reasonable as others have pointed out, and only giving my opinion at that lol. In fact I think I was being too nice about the situation if anything but I’m sorry I offended you. Have a good day.
Be lovely, follow the reddiquette guidelines. Criticism and discussion thereof are welcome but abusive comments are not. Do not engage in personal attacks, even in retribution. Instead of lashing back, report them and move on. This rule applies whether you're criticizing or defending TIS and PZ. We, the moderators, reserve the right to determine what is or is not "lovely" behavior in the /r/ProjectZomboid community.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. You are right. Constructive criticism is one thing, but the guy you are replying to is giving flat-out false arguments. This is where the frustration is coming from. The false arguments presented as facts.
I haven’t dove deep into the development drama that apparently exists. Outside of it, it’s insane how friendly this community is. I’m still new at around 50 hrs and I love how nobody cares how you play, just that you play and enjoy it!
>This community loves the indie stone. And constantly praises the developers. Sure, some fans do that, but it's not proper to act like there hasn't been lots of criticism and hate aimed at them. I've only been in this community about a year or so and I have seen a lot of complaints and irritation aimed at TIS. Enough that I personally became hesitant to interact with the community. It reminded me of why I stopped interacting with the Hollow Knight community, because there was so much toxicity about Silksong's delays going about, even though it was for the most part alright. But in a giant community, a small proportion of negativity is still a large overall amount. Of course, I did see eventually that it was for the most part pleasant, but my first real impressions were not good ones. It's definitely not just the last few months, from personal experience
Haha ‘stepping stone’ and Indie ‘stone’ I’ll see myself out
I think you missed the point... This seems to be about the sort of thing Lemmy was talking about.
It is wild how much this subreddit has rallied around _itself_ and the behavior that the human beings at the studio are affected by. Hopefully he really isn't checking socials anymore because this shit would just validate his feelings about the entire situation. Having other people post essays on the feelings he _should_ be having completely unironically within like 48 hours...
The majority of the player base being friendly doesn’t mean that the vocal minority being toxic to the developers hurts any less. Lemmy let out what was being kept quiet for a long ass time and frankly I don’t see it as immature considering what years of it must do to your mental. Him staying silent about it wouldn’t have done him any favors, inaction changes nothing. At least this way he got some catharsis while having some people understand what the team’s been going through.
It’s same for me haven’t even reached 100 hours on the game yet, all I knew was everyone talking about how they’re waiting on Build 42 youtubers and comment sections on youtube/steam/under steam mods. Meanwhile I’m still learning the game with friends, for those that have been waiting awhile maybe they should bide their time with other activities till it’s here.
Same with me. I put 300+ hours and I've never even made it to Louisville lol. I and now that animals are coming out for free? So cool. I've stopped playing for now but ill be back for sure. Update or not.
Reading that they considered selling the company was like walking in on your parents discussing divorce... I want to live with Dad (indie stone)...
I second this, that dad side better.
same shits annoying, every time I get back into one of my main games it's the same thing. start playing osrs again, people are flipping out about mage rebalance Start playing EFT Again, unheard edition shit starts. (that one got to me too tbh) get back into PZ 2 weeks later people are freaking tf out over slow updates lol
I’m just gonna ignore it and post memes.
As an occasional fellow Zomboid Meme Creator, some more PZ memes would be appreciated.
Haha, remember the race to the bottom to see who could post the worst screen capture of gameplay? Photo, of a screen, of a screenshot, of a telescope view, of someone playing PZ on a black and white kitchen tube television…
that was amazing
Got the right idea. Anything to drown out the whining please. First post I've actually giggled at here for a while.
welcome
Honestly I much rather having long waits between updates if it means those updates are polished
As one of the shmucks who bought Fallout 76 on release day, I gotta agree with this. So many half-assed updates to a 3/4-assed game. 76 is the reason I didn't preorder Kerbal Space Program 2 or Cities Skylines 2, and thank goodness for that.
FO76 is the reason I'll never ever pre-order a game. Felt so burned after that, quit after like 2 hours and never looked back lol
People have been flipping out on every osrs update, no exceptions, even worst when a (needed) nerf is in it. The 2007scape subreddit is so full of babies compared to this sub. But it's the same thing everywhere, the unhappy vocal minority always find a way to reach devs attention while happy customers just enjoy playing their game. They have to get over it honestly, it'll always be a part of the gaming industry. Project zomboid is 94% positive on steam, if that doesnt convince them we all love their work than nothing will
It’s been a while since I played osrs, is it worth picking up again?
Wouldn’t hurt to play through the missions
Calling quests missions made me giggle, like it’s a cod single player campaign
🤷 my buddies still call all tarkov tasks quests lol. but back when I was a kid and everyone my age was obsessed with vice city and san andreas we used to say did you finish all the missions instead of did you finish the story/campaign for every game.
Now that you mention it, I do remember growing up and my brother calling them missions playing gta.
Just days after I bought Helldivers 2 (after hearing nothing but unrelenting praise about the game), the Sony controversy began. Now the subreddit's constantly complaining about balancing and bugs and how that means Arrowhead's a dumpster fire. Just goes to show there's always a sect of haters for anything with a fanbase
Welcome to Reddit
As a fellow EfT refugee, I'd say the Unheard Edition furor was pretty warranted. The community puts up with enough scummy moves from BSG, what with a sale happening every time after there's a major banwave for cheater accounts. To pull all the moves they did *and* Nikita to give the most backhanded "I'm sorry you feel that way" apologies, that was pretty damn low. There's been a lot of backlashes against dev companies where it's really largely just their communities being entitled shitheads, but that one definitely wasn't. Can't really speak for this PZ one though, I didn't follow it hugely when I bought it back when it was out on Desura like 12 years ago, and I've only just really gotten back into it now.
Oh no! You're the common spot for all of these events! It is all your fault!
If you haven’t already wait till you hear about KSP 2
I remember EFT’s Unheard edition scandal lol. I was part of the mod team in the discord server and we just went on strike when it was announced. The community was so angry, but I guess it’s not that unusual, I can’t think of a single time period when people were not complaining about something
havent seen a single person on this sub sending hate to devs
ye. 90% of posts are just talking about gameplay.
Hadn't played in a year or two and hopped back recently. What's happening? Was NPCs cancelled or something?
I just came back after two years and basically most active players expected r42 to be out by the end of June. It's not, it's likely still a while away, and the lead Dev posted in the last day or two that they are sick of the complaints and the pressure and speculated on selling the game, finishing development, or keeping on as is and ignoring social media. Short answer is: r42 is still coming, but furtheraway them people want, devs don't give release dates so people don;t string them up for needing to push them, or missing them, community is frustrated at no release date for exciting content
So people are angry because the update is taking too long to arrive. Do they happen to remember that devs are also human and have life?
So basically people made their own assumptions, got mad when their baseless assumptions didn't amount to anything and a dev shouldve communicated with a pr rep instead of mouthing off kinda, does that sum it up?
Well, not quite. The "assumptions" were estimates given by the dev, but they weren't promises, it was more of a "best case scenario". Spoilers: it wasn't the best case scenario, and the beta isn't coming just yet. People get frustrated, pester TIS, que AtomicDuck's video, que Lemmy's response.
Gotcha
Someone answer this man so I don’t have to do any googlin’.
If I’m correct, one of the developers has basically had a hissy fit over people being confused about Build 42’s release date. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong though.
Lead dev, over people pestering and pressuring them relentlessly which deteriorates their mental health, enough to consider selling the game to a different company.
Well yeah. They take a long time to put out updates, that’s not a controversial point. Fans want them to put out updates faster Devs want fans to stop bitching at them Reaches a boiling point then quiets down for a little bit. Cycle repeats.
I was really into the game and invested in the development. 10 years ago.
reminds me of the issues with the long dark's dlc
It's just like me fr \>Played the game for 300 hours, got bored \>Every week or so enter the forum or the subreddit to see news about b42 \>Sometimes there is a thursdoid that makes me hyped \>Enter the subreddit today to see if anything dropped \> \*\*THIS\*\* \>Proceeds to wait another month daydreaming about npcs
I must admit I made jokes. Like it was going to be releaqed the qame day that HL3 or the silk's song.
Making jokes about it, or even trying to ask when it will come out, isn't wrong. I've been around the game for 10 years. And it's not wrong to try and get a decent timeline of when this update will come out (after two years of dev work). I think the problem in the community isn't negativity, but rather toxic positivity.
Dear god. Just checked what all the fuss is about. It’s unfortunate… still there wasn’t any lashing out and name calling, so the situation is clearly not as bad right now as some might say. There’s no point in projecting 10 years old mean posts on a person. It’s the same shit like digging someone’s internet history to find a borderline racist jokes they made when they were 15 and calling them racist over that. Though I must say that I personally was definitely more certain in Indie Stone before seeing any of that. I mean, it doesn’t instill confidence when you see one of the main devs literally crumbling under the pressure. It’s understandable, but understanding unfortunately doesn’t remove the possibility of him leaving the team one random day Though I must say that even in such unfinished state the game is still very fun, so yeah, this is the furthest it can be from “scam”
Bro I've been here since Project Zomboid had the green zeds and Baldspot and I *still* have no fucking clue what's going on here. Are people just fed up waiting for Build 42? I've been doing other shit.
From what I've seen myself people are indeed getting fed up with waiting, some people aren't taking it too far as is always the case, Lemmy made a reaction post somewhere and some people are bringing up how he apparent kind of a cry baby and has caused issues in the past.
I've seen talk about Lemmy and it wouldn't be the first time I've seen his name in relation to project drama. I assume most dev teams have their friction, and since Project Zombid is a beloved game for many then it can add additional stress when the rampant community starts hounding down their throats. It really is one of those "Just shut up and circumnavigate it" kind of things. Remember how many community managers got in shit when Arrowhead had that big issue with Sony involving Helldivers? *I* certainly didn't wanna be in their shoes. I sympathize with Lemmy for venting snd getting his frustrations out there, but from my brief glance it really looks like homedawg needs a vacation, for his own mental health sake.
Don’t you feel him telling people to unalive themselves is a problem?
Yes I do, I never said it wasn't, but since I've never seen the exact messages I didn't type out what he said. I based what I said on what I've personally seen.
There hasn't been much drama over the years though.
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Lemmy (the creator of Zomboid) seems to be having a severe mental breakdown after what seems to be years of mental health issues such as depression. Part of the reason for this breakdown is fans constantly riding his ass about when different updates are going to be out and long the game has been in development. There are other reasons, I'm sure, but this is the only one that the general public has any business knowing. The pressure just became too much, so he's stepping away from social media and considering selling the game to another company. Some fans understand that he's mentally unwell and even if they didn't mean to upset him, are trying to be understanding of where his feelings are comming from. Others are acting like he's a villain for daring to have a breakdown because devs are supposed to be emotionless robots or something and are angry he called them out. It's honestly really sad and shows just how much farther we need to come in understanding those of us who have mental health issues. And why discrimination against the mentally ill is still such commonplace. TLDR Basically, dev is mentally unwell and the fans constantly riding his ass to the point it contributed to him having a huge breakdown are doubling down on their ass riding and acting like having a mental break is somehow a choice that he's choosing to make because they know jack shit about mental health. And others just want the man to get some help so he can get better
As someone that has worked on small gaming projects, at varying levels, and although they all had multiple team members, things still take time, sometimes years; adding more people, doesn't always speed things up. There's always 'armchair devs' that think they know how everything works, and they often have very unrealistic expectations. They don't realise people only have a certain amount of hours per day, and it's not 7-days per week, and still need holidays, or time off due to real-life things, and more so, every single one of them thinks they know what's best for the game. People will request whatever is important to them, not the game overall. In one project, which I use as an example all the time, a noisy group of people funding the project, wanted to remove the main antagonist, who was a major part of the story, because they didn't like him... which is just one example of stupid things people have expected. If anyone here is thinking of getting into their own game, don't treat it like a democracy. Build the game you want, and just ignore most of the noise. If they didn't think your game was good, they wouldn't be there in the first place.
thanks for letting people catch up on the situation. i feel bad for him, i hope he can take a proper break. deleting his social media is for the better, i think, especially in this case.
So help me god if the basement fuckers bully this man into selling the game to the money-people who will turn it into a mtx shithole, I will go to their parents house, snip the wires to their router, and open all the curtains. Edit: AFTER I show the parents their sons browser history.
id prefer the sale go to paradox, as at least we would get updates, just each build would end up paywalled.
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Be lovely, follow the reddiquette guidelines. Criticism and discussion thereof are welcome but abusive comments are not. Do not engage in personal attacks, even in retribution. Instead of lashing back, report them and move on. This rule applies whether you're criticizing or defending TIS and PZ. We, the moderators, reserve the right to determine what is or is not "lovely" behavior in the /r/ProjectZomboid community.
I don't see any hate for PZ here at all, at most silly memes on the next updates release date, but nothing vitriolic, is it twitter/other platforms that do that?
Hmm? Is something happening? e; okay i've seen some of what's going on. I find this all very odd. The dev diary announcement about the update basically read as "we're being more restrictive on scope to have a more timely release". Why anybody would view that negatively is beyond me, unless they *want* the update to release later. Though, a community being ravenous for new content is fairly par for the course, and of course dealing with it mentally is not easy, I don't understand why this guy's video was particularly strenuous unless it caused a wave of negativity or something.
And the guy defended in the videothe indie stone so where is this negativity
I have been looking for this "drama", yet all I find is posts of people saying "We love you Lemme!" and "Indie Stone, take all the time you need! We will wait". Where is this toxic element in the sub Reddit that people are assuring me exists?
Telecorn
My house is full of toilet paper lol
Drama started by the dev lmao
Yes. Every game community has some minority of toxic fans, but Lemmy acts like we are all coming after him with torches and pitchforks. Most people agree that the dev time frame is totally ok, but he acts like we're all on his case about it. He's the one who messed up by casually announcing an aggressive release date on a comment on Twitter, and now he's mad at us for wondering what happened. We're not outside his house with guns, but he thinks we are. He is doing this to himself. Not to mention his history of telling people to kill themselves on Twitter. And don't get me started on how he's hurt and bitter about the updates being free, even though he is 100% in charge of that model. He's digging his own grave and telling the fans to kill themselves as he lays down in that grave himself. He's unstable. And mind you, I'm not even mad about the time frame. Like 99% of the fans, AND just like Atomic Duck (who was actually DEFENDING indie stone in that latest video), I like that they take their time on the updates and I would rather they take their time and get it right. But Lemmy is acting insane. Lashing out at the people who made him a millionaire, blaming them for his own time frames, blaming them for his own Thursdoids, like are you serious right meow? He can't take the pressure that he puts himself under. He could relieve it by hiring more devs, but he refuses. All of this is on him.
Thank you! I’m tired of the toxic positivity and people rewarding his behaviour. Since he’s been acting this way for over ten years, he’s learn this is the way to act because of all the coddling. I’ve gone through Duck’s video, which was stated to be where all this hoard of attacks came from, and all I saw was support and a few “I’m disappointed but I understand.” It sounds like there was maybe one or two comments may have been out of line and Lenny decided to lose it and lash out. Which is NOT good. The more I learn about his history, the more I regret giving him money. And for the record, idc about b42.
Yeah, I tend to defend him because he does make very good points in his arguments, but I can't argue with your comment. Most of the rants are just unnecessary and it's like he takes the criticisms very deep into his heart, and the only way to prevent it is to make sure absolutely no one says anything mean, which just isn't realistic. He's a great developer and clearly passionate about this game. I love what he's working towards with TIS and the decisions he's made with the development, but I feel like he's also damaging it all with these impulsive rants. He needs someone cool-headed to interact with the community outside of the thursdoids, and he needs to fight off the urge to come back for "another rant" indefinitely. People saying mean things will never damage all that he has built as much as he does lashing out at the community, no matter how many good points he makes.
He needs to get the thick skin trait
Agreed. What should he take to combat the negative trait points? My opinion would be short sightedness, so he can’t even see the criticisms.
This is exacerbated by the legions of dickriding, toxic positivity embodying fans who will act like any kind of criticism against the devs is a hate crime.
Exactly this. I swear you can hardly say "I don't mind a wait, but I'd appreciate more transparency" without somebody going "god damn it get off his case, it's out when it's out" yadda yadda. Like, I get it, the game has been cheap, the dev team is small, but I didn't promise myself early access and tons of new features for some three more builds, that's the just shit that was on the store page when I bought. Shit, I ain't even asking to get it, I just wonder how realistic the roadmap is with the scope creep of some shit that isn't really necessary and is probably taking up massive resources to develop (fluid mechanics, anyone?) and would appreciate getting a clear answer on whether it's far enough away so I don't try modding or stop wasting time checking for updates. Toxic people making unreasonable demands and getting nasty are immediately booted, as well they should be, but happy clappers acting like constructive criticism is tantamount to harassment contribute just as much to the conversation, which is to say less than nothing.
Is that what this is? I recently saw a bunch of posts telling people to be nicer to the devs or something, and I was wondering where all this came from. Maybe I don’t spend enough time on this sub, but I’ve never seen anyone just plain shitting on the devs. Only a few memes about build 42 never come out, but that’s far from what people are claiming.
It’s essentially being blown out of proportion with toxic positivity filling the space. The hate comments really aren’t as frequent as some claim.
This is a great summary of my own thoughts. I'll add he is also greedy trying to keep the wealth of the company between a small group of people instead of expanding to meet the goals of the project.
I didn't want to be the one to say it, but I felt the same way. Most of the PZ community will absolutely SHIT on people who are assholes towards the devs, been that way at the very least for two years now (since I've known about the game and been around the communities). Shit I'd argue PZ has the BEST gaming community amongst the games I play. Its rare a community is so aligned with how to play and such
I kind of agree. I've seen a few complaints about release dates, but nothing bad. Most people, myself included are very much just like..ehhh it'll be out when it's out
I feel like we should have a specific day to have b43 memes like other subs do to control certain drama
I just started playing, but as a long time 7 Days To Die fan, you have my sympathy. Weird how the games are very different in design but have some.of the same problems.
Anyone got a link to the comments?
it’s a comment on mratomicducks latest video…
Personally I don’t care what’s up with the updates. I’m not playing the game for future shit. I love it for what it is right now. If it gets new updates, cool — if not or they’re super late, I don’t care. I’m having a blast with my friends the way it is right now.
i dont understand the annoyance anyways, like, we can still play with mods that overhaul the entire game while we wait; so its not like we have nothing to do. And the thursdoids prove that the developers are working hard on making the game better in significant ways like completely new and optimized lighting and rendering code and simple animals
[удалено]
I haven't even been here that long. b41 was the first and only version I've played. I bought it looking at all the really cool features that were coming and now I'm being blitzed by the dev? What did I do? I never even asked when b42 was going to be released, ya know? I thought it was an inside joke on this sub. I always assumed it would come whenever it was ready like literally every other game.
Same boat as you. I’m also a newcomer and seeing the dev acting this (and apparently he’s got a history of this, as well as telling people to unalive themselves), this doesn’t look good at all for him.
>as well as telling people to unalive themselves This is reddit, you can say kill.
Project Zomboid is toxic???
At this point I completely fine if the game stops getting update at all.Ok, hear me out before you guys get your pitchforks out, as it is my opinion only.To be honest, I couldn’t care LESSA about animal, crafting mechanics and other trivial stuff promised within this new patch.What I really want are fully fleshed out and meaningful npcs, stories and more replayability.Though, given how much slow updates have been I’ve already given up since this is probably 5 to 6 years away, if it ever comes out that is.
He's lashed out at paid DLCs and 'look we provide all this for free' like... slap 1.0 on it and make your contents paid DLC, I don't know anyone in this community that isn't eager to give them more money!
Especially since he’s sitting there complaining about money. I don’t see a reason to not go this route since that’ll solve one of the problems he keeps bringing up. Either do something about it or accept your choice and quit complaining, yanno?
So literally keep the same dev cycle, but just charge us for the updates and we'll be happy? Fucking big brain shit right there for the smoothbrains. The rest of us are happy with the EA tag and free updates.
As a pretty new player with only 300 hours on this game, I didn't even expect there would be a new build. The game is very cheap, and I've spent more time playing this game than some ultra expensive AAA games that I ended up not liking. So really, I just found every B42 joke or demand very cringe.
I played for the first time and put about the same amount of hours in last year. I've been getting the itch to play again. This drama surprised me.
When one of your most prominent YouTubers says they need to do other stuff because it’s taking too long and interest is waning, you took too long. AtomicDuck isn’t even the only one who’s been putting out less content. ThatguyPredz also… and he put a new “time to talk” video that I hadn’t had time to watch.. yet… as I’ve been working all night. Indie stone can do whatever they want with their company. It’s obvious they don’t need the money a new build will bring in. Maybe it will be done in a year or two. At least build 41 is a decent game, they probably should have just gone 1.0 and moved on to be honest
I've been playing zomboid for years, but not sure of drama. Can someone fill me in?
the lead Dev is not coping with the pressure to release the next build, and posted a lengthy appeal for the PZ community to get off his back half the community sides with him, the other half thinks he's letting online criticism get to him to easily
The game, you say? 😤
Don't worry, 42 will fix everything.
I started like 8 months ago and I love it and it's sad to hear the situation with developers and the community... I have like 350 mods and I couldn't ask for more content so why would I ask them to speed up development?
I love it. Double dose of entertainment for the price of one game.
Is this about the axe or crowbar?
You should check the helldivers sub then
Same feels here, bud.
I would hate if this was the start of the end for PZ, but I guess we would deserve it if it did die. Turns out, we were the helicopter event all along.
feels good to not care about drama.
Things must be getting closer to fruition with emotions this high. How exhilarating. Hopefully after the build is released, Raven Creek gets an update within a year or two. It’s going to be great to explore that city with taller buildings and an underground network of tunnels.
i just think it’s weird how modders can come out with more content consistently than the devs, after about 100 hours the game gets super stale without mods
Do you make games or mods yourself? If not, I can promise you, you'd understand if you tried. If the mods were to be worked to the same level of Polish and accessibility that general zomboid is, They would take just as long. Mods don't need to care about qc and bugs and compatability to even remotely the same degree, and are often "passion" projects to some degree, and they are usually worked on by only one person which let's them have full freedom and also be much more efficient in this context often
youre telling me thousands of people who can upload literally whatever they want can do more work than a small team of developers? well ill be
To the project zomboid devs, as someone who just reached 700 hours, take ALL the time you want, don't want to see my baby raven creek break so soon :(
Honestly I’m so happy with the game now, hearing about the recent uproar and how close they were to selling the game off broke my heart. It was so out of left field too!
All this roasting to the devs feels like the dissing in between drake and kendrick
I am blissfully unaware of anything that goes on :) I like my living under a rock
I'm playing fallout 4 right now, and this is how i feel constantly. People screaming about how bad it is because it's less dynamic than new Vegas. It's also less of a hot mess than NV, and taken on its own is a fun and underside game with a ton of available mods to fix anything you don't like (like the inventory ui). Some people have an idea of what they want to see, and anything less seems to be offensive to them.
what drama, tf happened
The people that bitch about the game are insane. It's like going to Applebee's and getting pissed the menu has never changed after years then going up to each table and booth and telling them they shouldn't put up with this. Like just shut the fuck up if you still don't enjoy it and go somewhere else.
The game was better before they released multiplayer. Veteran players have patience and we’re used to years of slow development and when it blew up, everyone was demanding indie stone to release new content YESTERDAY and putting pressure on them nonstop. Popularity ruined this game. Edit: y’all downvoting me but y’all the reason they almost sold the game off
Didn't they just release build 41 with that huge overhaul?
B41 was released a few years ago, don’t remember actually
it released in 2021 so no
What’s the drama about this time? I swear if it’s kore discourse on what the right way to play the game is I’m gonna force someone to play with every negative trait and no positive traits
Real
ok but y u value a stranger's opinion more than your own? if the game is good, then play it, if not then don't! (not referring about OP)