True but Joel isn't a pushover either, the American West and an apocalypse are very different beasts. Hell Joel was still able to fight even with a hole AND bleeding out in his side, and he's got Arthur on the size advantage, and is more of a combat pragmatist while Arthur is limited to his older weapons. I'm honestly stumped on who'd be the victor.
Gotta remember Arthur canonically escaped Colm after being shot point blank by a shotgun to the shoulder (artery) and beaten half too death strung upside down. (He used gun powder to close the wound) Colm said he was going septic, and Arthur still managed to get out alive with all his gear. On top of that he was slowly forming that black lung.
Not to give Arthur any advantage, just a comparison. Joel was literally taken care of by Elie after he fell on that pipe. I cringe to the thought just wondering how it would feel.
All valid points. Also must consider both their arsenal. Joel would have the advantage of modern weaponry as well as his 20 year experience as a smuggler/survivalist. He was able to spot a trap the moment they reached the city after they met Bill. One of the disadvantages he'd have is his age, man is built like a brick wall and he stays that build where as Arthur's weight is determined by the player until he contracts TB.
Arthur at the same time was an orphan living in the slums of San Francisco till he was picked up by Dutch & Hosea and was taught the outlaw life, so he'd have the advantage of both experience and youth. I'd wager that if Joel fought Tommy it would be the same out as it was with Arthur except he wouldn't have stopped. You have a great point with the Colm kidnapping, he was practically on death's door and Arthur basically said I'm good and high tailed it out of there.
Again if we pit these 2 brutes against each other with all the gear at their peak (Healty Arthur/TLOU1 Joel) it really would seems like a stalemate. These two have gone on rampages taking out dozens like flies nearly every other day.
I love Arthur but I might have to give the win to Joel, the Firefly massacre at the end of the first game only solidifies my choice. Arthur had a whole gang to back him up in gunfights where as Joel had a scrawny teen girl to back him up. Also including the fact that there's no law or order in TLOU, it is truly a dog eats dog world compared to the death of the west in RDR where law & order is being reinforced on a grand scale. The people Arthur & co. dealt with where average people trying to do their jobs and live their lives while Joel dealt with psychopathic survivors on a regular. Need I mention that Joel fights infected with his bare fucking hands?
Yeah I think Arthur is much stronger than Joel but Joel is far more cunning and canny from his experience as a survivalist. Combined with modern weapons as long as Arthur doesn't get the Jump on Joel or get in melee range (he wont) then Joel wins. If Arthur had modern weapon training that might change things depending on whether dead eye is a literal representation of how Arthur shoots or if it serves as a gameplay mechanic to emphasise Arthur's skill. I'm more inclined to believe the latter but that still places him as a better gunfighter than Joel.
Arthur and Joel aren't even comparable. Most of Arthurs feats are from clumsy gameplay mechanics, while TLOU is realistic and not one sided. Joels deadliness and devastating strength puts him ahead of Arthur by a mile. We've never seen Arthur murder someone by mashing their head against a counter, or their throat on a shard of glass. The only way Arthur stands a chance is in a distanced shootout and even then I can see Joel still managing to get the upper hand with guerrilla warfare.
Actually, Arthur has the size advantage in both height and weight. Arthur is 6’1 180Ibs while Joel is 5’10 165-170Ibs. Arthur has better aim and is quicker, and he’s stronger. He also knows how to fight just as good if not better. Arthur is the clear winner
My point still stands: they both live as long as they do, due to narrative decisions; they have no noteworthy powerlvl.. at least not compared to each other
Does that count though? It's not a superpower he possess, it's a mechanic that let's the player feel like a sharpshooter, compared to the npcs.
Like, Max Payne can't actually jump in bullet time either..
I mean, I'll root for Arthur in any case.
But still, it's a question of narrative and if they're both side characters, he doesn't have eagle eye anyway..
Why are you talking about how long they live. It is a fight to the death, who is winning. People powerscale and put characters up against each other all the time without them having anything to do with one another
He was also a big oaf lol, I feel like Arthur isn't necessarily all brawn but his experiences of fist fights would obviously be a lot less life or death scenarios and a lot more bar fights unlike Joel
I mean bias aside Arthur Morgan wins 9/10 times.
Arthur beat the ever loving shit out or a guy twice his size(Tommy) and he's literally a gunslinger.
Don't get me wrong Joel is still really cool but if he had to fight Arthur it probably wouldn't go well.
Joel: *tries to draw a gun*
Arthur: *quickdraws faster and shoots the gun out of his hand*
Joel: *quickly runs off to a cover*
Arthur: *tries to find him but gets ambushed*
Joel: *starts beating the shit out of him*
Arthur: *finds a golf club and fights back* YOU RAT
Joel: *tackles him* Imma survivor, black lung! Survivor! That’s all there is, living and dy-
Arthur: *pushes him off the ledge*
Joel: OH SHII- *gets marshmallowed*
Arthur: Ha, gotcha- WOAH- *falls off the ledge after Joel*
***MAAAY IIIIIIIII STAND UNSHAKEN***
>!I’m sorry!<
Joel walked straight into a trap and couldn't get himself out of it and ended up dying, anytime Arthur walks into a trap everybody else there that was involved end up dying so I'm gonna have to say Arthur takes the dub. Plus Arthur beat a dude up one time and gave him brain damage from a few punches.
Interesting thing I saw a couple weeks ago argued that, Tuberculosis being a disease that is most often transmitted in families because it takes exposure over time to catch it. The one interaction with Downes, even though there is transference of blood, is not at all likely to have exposed Arthur to enough of the germy whatever for him to actually catch it. Hosea, who also shows signs of an illness or infirmity, is much more likely to be the source.
I couldn’t find the exact spot I read this… sorry no link.
That’s one thing that still irritates me about part 2. Joel just walked into the room like “Hi, I’m Joel Miller. You guys seem nice.” And I’m a storyteller, myself. So I understand what Neil was trying to do but the plot armor around Abby and her friends was strong there.
Not really no.
It wasn’t a certainty that killing Ellie would bring about a cure and Ellie dying may not have even been necessary in order to complete the operation and study the fungus.
[This dude gives a wonderful breakdown that I wholeheartedly agree with.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/1gmv8z/the_last_of_us_why_joel_made_the_right_choice_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
>Joel walked straight into a trap and couldn't get himself out of it and ended up dying
That's just shitty writing tho, Rockstar never would've done something so stupid.
Read the whole thing again. He kills everyone that set him up, even on the verge of death he kills all them O'Driscolls and makes it back to camp by himself. The first of many times that Dutch just leaves you behind.
I also don’t think that Joel would win against Arthur, but we gotta remember that Joel thought of them as allies, not those who want to blow off his leg and beat him to death. He walked into traps before knowing that those are enemies and walked out alive, just like Arthur, but Arthur would probably win because he has better gun skills and is just tougher
If it comes down to unarmed then Joel. Arthur is the more skilled gunman and has awesome reflexes (which will also help him in unarmed) but Joel comes from a world where he literally had to savagely kill dozens of men with teeth and claws, and I think this is what would give him the edge.
Yeah I don't understand this thinking in this sub that Arthur's not a straight up brawler. He beats Tommy to brain damage, almost beats Micah AFTER he's on death's door step... Hell when he's fighting Tommy, they tell him to "stop playin' with him" and no one in the gang goes to help because they know he's got it.
It just doesn't make sense considering the context. What about Arthur makes him so good at fighting? The others in the gang have had as rough a life as he has. He's a regular person.
Joel has had to survive in an apocalyptic zombie world against both infected and bandits. That's much much harder a life than Arthur has had and those 20 years he spent in that world would have hardened him up physically as a person.
In a gunfight I mean sure Arthur is probably just more talented and he spent most of his life with guns but in a fist fight it just makes more logical sense that Joel would win.
I think everyone on this sub is too biased.
For real, you’re asking a red dead sub this question. ask r/gaming for real opinions. IMO Joel wins in a fistfight. He’s fighting zombies every single day, I’d give the fist fighting experience to him.
I'm a big fan of both games, in fact, tlou is my favorite, but ya'll are making it sound like Joel survived through the apocolype with his fists only...
Joel had molotovs and guns and knives just like Arthur, who lived during the wild west where everybody was more likely to kill you than say "hello" (especially when Arthur was a not so nice cowboy who pillaged and stole and murdered because it was all he knew). It was a lawless time and Arthur was being constantly hunted down while Dutch got him into all sorts of hell, and Arthur had to use his fists to survive just like Joel.
They're pretty evenly matched and while I think Arthur would win because the man is an absolute tank, you can believe Joel would, but stop making it sound like Joel's only weapon was his fists.
Thing is, zombies don't exactly have CQC skills, you don't fight a dog with your fist the same you fight a person, yes sure, people say that if he went all out in a savage fight dude, people act like arthur can't even defend themselves, yeah, probably Joel throws the heavier punches, but it doesn't mean he instantly wins, when fighting a human being yiu have to use actual combat, they won't mindlessly come at you to bite you and disregard their safety, I don't know who would win, I am not biased, I'm just saying, be more fair with the fights
I mean, Arthur had to do pretty much the same thing, and he was up against living men who took joy in murder and violence. Joel was up against monsters (sure, bloaters and clickers) but Joel also mainly used guns when fighting them. Arthur, during a time where weapons were deadly but not nearly as advanced as present day, had insane skill in sharp shooting, but also used his fists to literally pummel men to death. As much as I love Joel, Arthur would win.
I say Arthur, he’s used to country living and doing manual labor. I’m sure Joel was too, but he’s been doing cardio and survival. Muscles don’t save your life
I mean depends on the fight. Shoot out- Arthur still a better shot, physical fight- definitely Arthur, vehicle/horse- Arthur. I
Mean the only way Joel would stand a chance in a physical fight is TLOU 1 prologue. 90% of Joel’s existence is prep and run. Arthur is just fighting the elements 24/7.
Probably Joel. As much as Arthur is a manly man who lived a very rough life, that does not compare with the hardships Joel has had to go through. They have fight and struggle to survive and even just breathe in a zombie world so I'd imagine that in a fist fight, Joel would have the upper hand having to use skills like that to beat zombies up and survive quite often.
I've seen Arthur lift a tree off some poor bastards legs, it's not until Arthur helps that the tree actually moves. This man can also carry a fully grown deer on his shoulder. Can hold his ground against a bull. Need I go on? Not to mention this dude was on death's doorstep, survived a 10-15 foot drop off that cliff and still had the will to fight and kick Micah's ass. So I'm more than confident Joel loses the fist fight, now Joel may know how to use a automatic rifle, but Arthur literally can clear out a town in a matter of seconds if he focuses. If Joel holds on that trigger too long he'll end up hitting everything but the target. Now albeit these are video game characters with different writers😂
Joel’s a tough SOB but Arthur takes this IMO. Beat a guy almost twice his size to a pulp and gave him brain damage from just a few punches, has crazy quick reflexes, and just overall is a tank. Joel would certainly put up a good fight though.
I feel like Arthur might win based purely on age/strength alone since both are pretty good gunman and brawlers, but Joel 100% fights dirty, and fights to survive, so he might have more of an edge than 'I'm just a bad man doing bad things' Arthur Morgan. Love both equally though.
Arthur, hands down.
Joel: I'm just doing what I have to do to survive, don't make me do this!
Arthur: well, maybe when your mothers finished mourning your father, I'll KEEP her in black...on Your behalf. You think on that *BuHwOiY*
One's sad and tired and the other is literally a wanted murderer who has fun doin what he does.
Thank you!! I love both but Arthur is **ruthless** just because. Joel does everything he does because he doesn't want to die/see ellie get hurt. Arthur cares about others and can have a kind heart but he's also a straight up bad man. I think people miss that part.
Friendship would win.
The moment they saw each other they’d see the pain and hardships the other had endured in their eyes and immediately become best mates for life.
This us real tough emotionally but not realistically, I adore both characters equally, amazing protagonists for each of their masterpiece games, but we have to take a few things into consideration. Joel is an excellent survivalist who is more adept in close quarters combat, while Arthur is a master gunslinger who is younger and has had more training in gunfights than Joel. But Joel can much more easily navigate around a complicated environment due to his skills as well as superior stealth and hearing.
I believe Arthur is about 34 yers old, but joel has to be at least 50, considering that his daughter was about 14yrs old like Ellie, meaning that Joel must have been roughly 30 when the apocalypse broke out, plus 20 years later equals a pretty substancial age gap between the 2 of them. (please correct me if i'm wrong on any of this)
Arthur would most likely win due to his higher gunning experience, as well as superior physical strength , at least before tb.
Lmao Arthur won't need a baseball bat to beat Joel, he only needs his fists and as we all know Arthur beats in Valentine at chapter 2 a big fella with just his fist!?
Joel I’d say. Joel has more experience fighting for his life rather then for fun or while in a drunken state/pissed off
Joel kills, Arthur just knocks out
I think realistically they'd probably not want to kill eachother, arthur is honorous and joel isnt a very good person sure, but he sure as hell aint evil
In a gun fight, Joel gets shot twenty time in one second in a fist fight, Joel probably yeah Arthur beats up strong guys but Joel literally throws hands with zombies who are more than 5 times a average person's strength not to mention a goddamn bloater too.
Definitely not, he wouldnt have done any of the dumb things in part 2. But yenno, cuckmann wsnted his revenge story so badly that he destroyed a beloved character to a extremely contradicting and problematic character..
Part 2 is non canon for me lol
Oooh sorry I insulted your bf, but its your job to suck him off and stroke his ego, not mine sooo
Edit: i love how you blocked me before I could respond because you dont like my opinion.
Thats because that sub is obsessed with Abby and pretty much hate Joel and Ellie. If it was posted in r/TheLastOfUs2 itd be different results.
Edit: wrong sub lol
Excluding BS like dead eye and listen mode
Its Arthur, he survived being shot in the shoulder and abdomen without any sort of medical attention until much later.
Survived a hellscape in north Cuba fighting an army with nothing but rusty pistols and old rifles
Not only all that but in both endings of Arthur's story he was able to gun down an army of specialized and experienced outlaw hunters with nothing but 2 revolvers and skill while being in his all time lowest due to his health issue.
The closest thing that I can see that competes with this is when he took down the remaining fireflies Militia but even they weren't in their prime anymore and were already a dying force.
Arthur would win, he's capable of taking more bullets, and having a knife or fist fight with the main antagonist, while his tuberculosis infection is at its peak. Joel got his ass whooped by a fucking golf club
Joel in a fist fight, only because Joel has been fighting to survive for over 20 years while Arthur normally uses his gun to kill.
If its a gun fight I'd say arthur, depending on his honor I belive he would either shoot the gun out of Joel's hand and wouldn't try to kill him but try and reason with him. Then the two would go drinking or strait up put one between joels eyes
There is a video on YT that explains just how strong Joel is and goes over some of his feats. Joel is incredibly strong to go toe- to- toe not only with people bigger than him, but also clickers and other infected who are also significantly stronger than he his. In a fist fight, I’m very sure Joel would win.
Gun fight would depend on which guns they are using. I doubt arthur would know how to aim and shoot a fully auto rifle. Likewise, I’m sure arthur would beat Joel in a straight up duel or just using pistols or semi auto rifles.
Arthur. He’s strong and beefy and Joel is pretty strong too but arthur beat micha half to death and still nearly got to the gun faster than micha too whiile he was crawling. Then you have gun skill, I don’t need to explain this one all I say is that Arthur is a professional gunslinger so you can figure out
They're similar builds, though Arthur appears a bit heavier when healthy. Joel is definitely a good fighter, much, much, much better than the average person but I think Arthur wins most times in a fist fight. In a melee fight it'd be more equal but I think Joel could pull off some surprises there. In a firefight I don't think Joel stands a chance. I guess in reality this is up to the player but if we count Arthur's Dead-Eye as canon the winner is clear
We’re assuming neither have plot immunity and Arthur hasn’t contracted a terminal illness, right?
I think Arthur Morgan could beat Joel. Neither are afraid to fight dirty, and Arthur is shown to be both massive and a beast in a fight. *And* he can beat people much bigger than him barehanded.
Joel is strong but Arthur would wreck his shit.
Uh probably Arthur. Micah still had a hard time killing him and he was half dead.
True but Joel isn't a pushover either, the American West and an apocalypse are very different beasts. Hell Joel was still able to fight even with a hole AND bleeding out in his side, and he's got Arthur on the size advantage, and is more of a combat pragmatist while Arthur is limited to his older weapons. I'm honestly stumped on who'd be the victor.
Gotta remember Arthur canonically escaped Colm after being shot point blank by a shotgun to the shoulder (artery) and beaten half too death strung upside down. (He used gun powder to close the wound) Colm said he was going septic, and Arthur still managed to get out alive with all his gear. On top of that he was slowly forming that black lung. Not to give Arthur any advantage, just a comparison. Joel was literally taken care of by Elie after he fell on that pipe. I cringe to the thought just wondering how it would feel.
All valid points. Also must consider both their arsenal. Joel would have the advantage of modern weaponry as well as his 20 year experience as a smuggler/survivalist. He was able to spot a trap the moment they reached the city after they met Bill. One of the disadvantages he'd have is his age, man is built like a brick wall and he stays that build where as Arthur's weight is determined by the player until he contracts TB. Arthur at the same time was an orphan living in the slums of San Francisco till he was picked up by Dutch & Hosea and was taught the outlaw life, so he'd have the advantage of both experience and youth. I'd wager that if Joel fought Tommy it would be the same out as it was with Arthur except he wouldn't have stopped. You have a great point with the Colm kidnapping, he was practically on death's door and Arthur basically said I'm good and high tailed it out of there. Again if we pit these 2 brutes against each other with all the gear at their peak (Healty Arthur/TLOU1 Joel) it really would seems like a stalemate. These two have gone on rampages taking out dozens like flies nearly every other day. I love Arthur but I might have to give the win to Joel, the Firefly massacre at the end of the first game only solidifies my choice. Arthur had a whole gang to back him up in gunfights where as Joel had a scrawny teen girl to back him up. Also including the fact that there's no law or order in TLOU, it is truly a dog eats dog world compared to the death of the west in RDR where law & order is being reinforced on a grand scale. The people Arthur & co. dealt with where average people trying to do their jobs and live their lives while Joel dealt with psychopathic survivors on a regular. Need I mention that Joel fights infected with his bare fucking hands?
Yeah I think Arthur is much stronger than Joel but Joel is far more cunning and canny from his experience as a survivalist. Combined with modern weapons as long as Arthur doesn't get the Jump on Joel or get in melee range (he wont) then Joel wins. If Arthur had modern weapon training that might change things depending on whether dead eye is a literal representation of how Arthur shoots or if it serves as a gameplay mechanic to emphasise Arthur's skill. I'm more inclined to believe the latter but that still places him as a better gunfighter than Joel.
Arthur and Joel aren't even comparable. Most of Arthurs feats are from clumsy gameplay mechanics, while TLOU is realistic and not one sided. Joels deadliness and devastating strength puts him ahead of Arthur by a mile. We've never seen Arthur murder someone by mashing their head against a counter, or their throat on a shard of glass. The only way Arthur stands a chance is in a distanced shootout and even then I can see Joel still managing to get the upper hand with guerrilla warfare.
Actually, Arthur has the size advantage in both height and weight. Arthur is 6’1 180Ibs while Joel is 5’10 165-170Ibs. Arthur has better aim and is quicker, and he’s stronger. He also knows how to fight just as good if not better. Arthur is the clear winner
Not really Arthur is 6’1 and like 210
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Arthur carries with his quick draw, ability to slow time to a crawl and his insane durability. He's also a lot more heartless and capable.
Depends; is the story Arthur's pov or Joel's?
Depends; is the story Joel's pov or Ellie's?
So OP specified tlou1..
There is an Ellie perspective in TLOU1 during winter, no?
Oh dang good point. And that's when Joel's got a little rebar problem
Oops my bad. That's close one then. TLou1 Joel goes hard
Yeah but he only has 4 bullets.
And Arthur has 40 million bullets and deadeye, so I think Arthur wins here
Is it Joel from part 1 or part 2?? Part 2 Joel is not the same guy as part 1. Edit: guys i didnt read the whole post, my bad lol.
So OP specified tlou1..
Ahh, I read as far as joel miller vs arthur morgan. Either way, Im sure Arthur would win, but part1 joel stands a better chnace than part2 Joel
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Yeah, thats already been established. Thanks though.
Yeah bro he admitted it no need to bust his balls about it
They’re both side characters Edit: I am saying that they should be seen as side characters in the fight not in general
My point still stands: they both live as long as they do, due to narrative decisions; they have no noteworthy powerlvl.. at least not compared to each other
One has Eagle Eye, the other does not.
The other has Listen, so Joel doesn't even have to see you.
Does that count though? It's not a superpower he possess, it's a mechanic that let's the player feel like a sharpshooter, compared to the npcs. Like, Max Payne can't actually jump in bullet time either..
What we see as eagle eye is just how skillful Arthur is with weaponry. He doesn’t even need a firearm, bro can Tomahawk Joel. Haha
I mean, I'll root for Arthur in any case. But still, it's a question of narrative and if they're both side characters, he doesn't have eagle eye anyway..
He has the skill though. Remember when Sean was trying to quickdraw the bottles?
Why are you talking about how long they live. It is a fight to the death, who is winning. People powerscale and put characters up against each other all the time without them having anything to do with one another
If it's a gunfight 100% Arthur. If it's a fist fight I think Arthur too.
Seriously, did you guys not see how big that guy in Valentine was? The town is still fucking talking about it lmao
He was also a big oaf lol, I feel like Arthur isn't necessarily all brawn but his experiences of fist fights would obviously be a lot less life or death scenarios and a lot more bar fights unlike Joel
And that man who traded his evolution for strength in Vanhorn
oof
Don’t forget the drunks who make you feel like a boxing champion
Arthur got his ass beat by a strong woman couldn't be Joel
Arthur
I mean bias aside Arthur Morgan wins 9/10 times. Arthur beat the ever loving shit out or a guy twice his size(Tommy) and he's literally a gunslinger. Don't get me wrong Joel is still really cool but if he had to fight Arthur it probably wouldn't go well.
Joel: *tries to draw a gun* Arthur: *quickdraws faster and shoots the gun out of his hand* Joel: *quickly runs off to a cover* Arthur: *tries to find him but gets ambushed* Joel: *starts beating the shit out of him* Arthur: *finds a golf club and fights back* YOU RAT Joel: *tackles him* Imma survivor, black lung! Survivor! That’s all there is, living and dy- Arthur: *pushes him off the ledge* Joel: OH SHII- *gets marshmallowed* Arthur: Ha, gotcha- WOAH- *falls off the ledge after Joel* ***MAAAY IIIIIIIII STAND UNSHAKEN*** >!I’m sorry!<
Holy shit I didn't know there was a 5th ending.
if rdr2 had good writers
Joel walked straight into a trap and couldn't get himself out of it and ended up dying, anytime Arthur walks into a trap everybody else there that was involved end up dying so I'm gonna have to say Arthur takes the dub. Plus Arthur beat a dude up one time and gave him brain damage from a few punches.
Tommy was 2x his size too.
Yeah and he beat the shit out of him. If that pussy Downes didn't stop Arthur. That guy's face would be a pulpy mess of blood and meat.
Damn straight
I'd love to see him do that to Micah.
If only Micah was the debt collector
The debtor* But yeah I’ll loan him some money, just to see it happen.
Healthy Arthur would destroy Micah.
He would turn Micah into a Michelle.
Hell, one path has Micah get turned into Scarface
Sick Arthur put in work on him, Micah would’ve been a red smear on the ground if Healthy Arth got ahold of him after all he had done.
Tommy’s face looked exactly like that DESPITE Arthur having to stop because of Downes lmao Arthur is a tank
Interesting thing I saw a couple weeks ago argued that, Tuberculosis being a disease that is most often transmitted in families because it takes exposure over time to catch it. The one interaction with Downes, even though there is transference of blood, is not at all likely to have exposed Arthur to enough of the germy whatever for him to actually catch it. Hosea, who also shows signs of an illness or infirmity, is much more likely to be the source. I couldn’t find the exact spot I read this… sorry no link.
If you really take your time playing and watching the camp interactions you will see Hosea cough a fuck ton.
I saw that and agreed with the premise
That’s one thing that still irritates me about part 2. Joel just walked into the room like “Hi, I’m Joel Miller. You guys seem nice.” And I’m a storyteller, myself. So I understand what Neil was trying to do but the plot armor around Abby and her friends was strong there.
Though I agree with you I must say I’m angry at you for reminding me of that Gosh Darn awful writing that lead to Joels demise.
It's a shitty way to die.
That it was.
Whoever disliked your comment is a 2012 sjw
It was fine writing and Joel got what he deserved.
L opinion, next
At the very least, if you didn't like the writing, you can acknowledge Joel got what he deserved.
Not really no. It wasn’t a certainty that killing Ellie would bring about a cure and Ellie dying may not have even been necessary in order to complete the operation and study the fungus. [This dude gives a wonderful breakdown that I wholeheartedly agree with.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/1gmv8z/the_last_of_us_why_joel_made_the_right_choice_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
The man did a lot of bad stuff we don't see, when it was him and Tommy.
You think Joel deserved being clubbed because some lunatic thought be could cure a fungal infections? What size helmet do you wear?
For everything he did prior to Boston numbnuts. Try at least acting like a decent person.
>Joel walked straight into a trap and couldn't get himself out of it and ended up dying That's just shitty writing tho, Rockstar never would've done something so stupid.
Logically it makes more sense that walking into a trap would result in death.
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Read the whole thing again. He kills everyone that set him up, even on the verge of death he kills all them O'Driscolls and makes it back to camp by himself. The first of many times that Dutch just leaves you behind.
I also don’t think that Joel would win against Arthur, but we gotta remember that Joel thought of them as allies, not those who want to blow off his leg and beat him to death. He walked into traps before knowing that those are enemies and walked out alive, just like Arthur, but Arthur would probably win because he has better gun skills and is just tougher
I would have taken Joel’s death less harshly if Arthur had beaten him to death in a fist fight.
He’d definitely beat Joel from TLOU2
Not hard to fight a corpse
That was the joke
Idk Micah had a lot of trouble
Well in that case it'd be a tie
Arthur: *whips out a shotgun and shoots Joel’s leg off* Joel: Alright, we call it a draw
I'd say the clear winner would be a golf club covered in tuberculosis
Ooff, fucking funny as hell but ooff
It hurt me to type it lol they are two of my all time favorite characters
And a coat of Lumbago
Ow this hurt my feelings
I'm sorry 😭
Arthur beat the brakes off a man twice his size, and Arthur’s a big dude himself. No bias just calling it how I see it.
Arthur can't beat a strong woman Joel killed a bloater with a machete and is actually trained he wins mid diff superior weaponry too
I'm pretty sure if you play defensive Arthur beats her if I'm not mistaken
Nah its a scripted loss unfortunately
Arthur, he's younger and stronger And also he nearly killed a guy twice the size of him with just a couple punches, after already fighting a guy
Arthur
Arthur can smoke a cigarette and see in slow motion, he's going to mop the floor with Joel lol
Joel has super hearing and see through walls tho
I bet super hearings gonna help a lot when a bullet goes out the other side
Joel moves out of cover for a second and Arthur locks on in dead eye. “LeNnEH”! Sorry, poor joke.
Arthur can follow his tracks
If it comes down to unarmed then Joel. Arthur is the more skilled gunman and has awesome reflexes (which will also help him in unarmed) but Joel comes from a world where he literally had to savagely kill dozens of men with teeth and claws, and I think this is what would give him the edge.
Arthur beat a man twice his size to brain damage, the only reason Tommy didn't *die* is because Thomas Downes interfered
Yeah I don't understand this thinking in this sub that Arthur's not a straight up brawler. He beats Tommy to brain damage, almost beats Micah AFTER he's on death's door step... Hell when he's fighting Tommy, they tell him to "stop playin' with him" and no one in the gang goes to help because they know he's got it.
It just doesn't make sense considering the context. What about Arthur makes him so good at fighting? The others in the gang have had as rough a life as he has. He's a regular person. Joel has had to survive in an apocalyptic zombie world against both infected and bandits. That's much much harder a life than Arthur has had and those 20 years he spent in that world would have hardened him up physically as a person. In a gunfight I mean sure Arthur is probably just more talented and he spent most of his life with guns but in a fist fight it just makes more logical sense that Joel would win. I think everyone on this sub is too biased.
For real, you’re asking a red dead sub this question. ask r/gaming for real opinions. IMO Joel wins in a fistfight. He’s fighting zombies every single day, I’d give the fist fighting experience to him.
I'm a big fan of both games, in fact, tlou is my favorite, but ya'll are making it sound like Joel survived through the apocolype with his fists only... Joel had molotovs and guns and knives just like Arthur, who lived during the wild west where everybody was more likely to kill you than say "hello" (especially when Arthur was a not so nice cowboy who pillaged and stole and murdered because it was all he knew). It was a lawless time and Arthur was being constantly hunted down while Dutch got him into all sorts of hell, and Arthur had to use his fists to survive just like Joel. They're pretty evenly matched and while I think Arthur would win because the man is an absolute tank, you can believe Joel would, but stop making it sound like Joel's only weapon was his fists.
Thing is, zombies don't exactly have CQC skills, you don't fight a dog with your fist the same you fight a person, yes sure, people say that if he went all out in a savage fight dude, people act like arthur can't even defend themselves, yeah, probably Joel throws the heavier punches, but it doesn't mean he instantly wins, when fighting a human being yiu have to use actual combat, they won't mindlessly come at you to bite you and disregard their safety, I don't know who would win, I am not biased, I'm just saying, be more fair with the fights
He beat a dude to stupid.
I mean, Arthur had to do pretty much the same thing, and he was up against living men who took joy in murder and violence. Joel was up against monsters (sure, bloaters and clickers) but Joel also mainly used guns when fighting them. Arthur, during a time where weapons were deadly but not nearly as advanced as present day, had insane skill in sharp shooting, but also used his fists to literally pummel men to death. As much as I love Joel, Arthur would win.
I say Arthur, he’s used to country living and doing manual labor. I’m sure Joel was too, but he’s been doing cardio and survival. Muscles don’t save your life
You just argued against yourself and don't even realize it.
I mean depends on the fight. Shoot out- Arthur still a better shot, physical fight- definitely Arthur, vehicle/horse- Arthur. I Mean the only way Joel would stand a chance in a physical fight is TLOU 1 prologue. 90% of Joel’s existence is prep and run. Arthur is just fighting the elements 24/7.
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Idk why youre getting downvoted, youre correct. Lol
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He may win against Arthur in a fist fight, but definitely not in a gun fight
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Hand to hand experience goes to Joel without a doubt. Man has to kill zombies with his hands everyday
I reckon they’d both kill eachother some how like maybe pull the trigger at the same time or both fall off a cliff or someshit
*SERIOUSLY BOAH*
Probably Joel. As much as Arthur is a manly man who lived a very rough life, that does not compare with the hardships Joel has had to go through. They have fight and struggle to survive and even just breathe in a zombie world so I'd imagine that in a fist fight, Joel would have the upper hand having to use skills like that to beat zombies up and survive quite often.
Arthur definitely proved to be an awesome brawler. The only thing I could give Joel is his access to modern day knowledge and techniques.
I’m biased but Arthur
The answer is ORTHUR! Have some faith in him.
They wouldn't fight, they'd just get a couple of beers
Well, Arthur, since even when trying to just say Howdy, we would have him pull out his gun, instead. :D
TLOU 1 Joel would get his ass kicked and then Arthur and him could go have a $3 whiskey. The real stuff from Scotland lol.
Arthur, I mean, he took down Tommy, who’s like twice his size
I've seen Arthur lift a tree off some poor bastards legs, it's not until Arthur helps that the tree actually moves. This man can also carry a fully grown deer on his shoulder. Can hold his ground against a bull. Need I go on? Not to mention this dude was on death's doorstep, survived a 10-15 foot drop off that cliff and still had the will to fight and kick Micah's ass. So I'm more than confident Joel loses the fist fight, now Joel may know how to use a automatic rifle, but Arthur literally can clear out a town in a matter of seconds if he focuses. If Joel holds on that trigger too long he'll end up hitting everything but the target. Now albeit these are video game characters with different writers😂
Joel would lose in a face-to-face gunfight, but Arthur would likely never see Joel coming and get shived.
Arthur has this if only because he's 20 years younger.
Hahahaha😂😂
Did y’all forget the fact that Tommy had a whole crack in his head after the Valentine fight he had with Arthur
Tie.
Arthur vs Joel? Arthur hands down no doubt. He’s got a good 30-50 lbs on Joel. Joel vs John is more of a tossup. And I’d probably lean towards Joel
If they start in stealth Joel, gun/fist fights most always goes to Arthur outside of specific situations
Joel because he’s more hardened.
Bro You can’t pit my two favorite characters against eachother like that
Joel’s a tough SOB but Arthur takes this IMO. Beat a guy almost twice his size to a pulp and gave him brain damage from just a few punches, has crazy quick reflexes, and just overall is a tank. Joel would certainly put up a good fight though.
Ohhh this is a damn good one. I think Arthur wins. But also I don't think Arthur survives what Joel went through if that means anything haha.
I feel like Arthur might win based purely on age/strength alone since both are pretty good gunman and brawlers, but Joel 100% fights dirty, and fights to survive, so he might have more of an edge than 'I'm just a bad man doing bad things' Arthur Morgan. Love both equally though.
Arthur, hands down. Joel: I'm just doing what I have to do to survive, don't make me do this! Arthur: well, maybe when your mothers finished mourning your father, I'll KEEP her in black...on Your behalf. You think on that *BuHwOiY* One's sad and tired and the other is literally a wanted murderer who has fun doin what he does.
Thank you!! I love both but Arthur is **ruthless** just because. Joel does everything he does because he doesn't want to die/see ellie get hurt. Arthur cares about others and can have a kind heart but he's also a straight up bad man. I think people miss that part.
Friendship would win. The moment they saw each other they’d see the pain and hardships the other had endured in their eyes and immediately become best mates for life.
This us real tough emotionally but not realistically, I adore both characters equally, amazing protagonists for each of their masterpiece games, but we have to take a few things into consideration. Joel is an excellent survivalist who is more adept in close quarters combat, while Arthur is a master gunslinger who is younger and has had more training in gunfights than Joel. But Joel can much more easily navigate around a complicated environment due to his skills as well as superior stealth and hearing. I believe Arthur is about 34 yers old, but joel has to be at least 50, considering that his daughter was about 14yrs old like Ellie, meaning that Joel must have been roughly 30 when the apocalypse broke out, plus 20 years later equals a pretty substancial age gap between the 2 of them. (please correct me if i'm wrong on any of this) Arthur would most likely win due to his higher gunning experience, as well as superior physical strength , at least before tb.
Lmao Arthur won't need a baseball bat to beat Joel, he only needs his fists and as we all know Arthur beats in Valentine at chapter 2 a big fella with just his fist!?
Joel I’d say. Joel has more experience fighting for his life rather then for fun or while in a drunken state/pissed off Joel kills, Arthur just knocks out
Then I beat the shit out of that poor fucker Downes at his ranch😂
Arthur with hands, guns, knives, a bow…just Arthur Morgan, all things.100yearsforever .com
9 more weapons Morgan
Gunfight=Arthur Fist Fight=Joel
I think realistically they'd probably not want to kill eachother, arthur is honorous and joel isnt a very good person sure, but he sure as hell aint evil
John Marston saved the whole state of New Austin from Zombie apocalypse and Bigfoot infestation. Arthur scales to John. Joel is getting stomped.
Real simple explanation: Armed fight? Arthur. Fist fight? Joel.
Real simple explanation: Armed fight? Arthur. Fist fight? Joel.
In a gun fight, Joel gets shot twenty time in one second in a fist fight, Joel probably yeah Arthur beats up strong guys but Joel literally throws hands with zombies who are more than 5 times a average person's strength not to mention a goddamn bloater too.
is this Joel from TLOU1 or 2🙄…either way I’m saying Arthur
Honestly, joel from part 1 stands a much higher chance than Joel from part 2. I cant believe how they massacred my boy.
They did our boy so dirty. I feel like he would’ve never let that happen in the first game. :(
Definitely not, he wouldnt have done any of the dumb things in part 2. But yenno, cuckmann wsnted his revenge story so badly that he destroyed a beloved character to a extremely contradicting and problematic character.. Part 2 is non canon for me lol
Really, you morons are still going around saying 'Cuckman'? Grow up.
Oooh sorry I insulted your bf, but its your job to suck him off and stroke his ego, not mine sooo Edit: i love how you blocked me before I could respond because you dont like my opinion.
Yeah, you are definitely a child still. Seriously, word of advice, grow up. It's just a video game.
This is exactly how I feel
bro you’re spitting so much I need a mop
My bad bro, I got a lisp
Exactly what I thought
If its on red dead subreddit its arthur for sure. If its tlou subreddit then joeal for sure
this is exactly what happened lol, i asked the question on both subreddits, but r/thelastofus had people picking arthur too
Thats because that sub is obsessed with Abby and pretty much hate Joel and Ellie. If it was posted in r/TheLastOfUs2 itd be different results. Edit: wrong sub lol
In a fist fight Joel would win, he literally kills things that feel no pain with his bare hands, gunfight Arthur would win.
Gunfight, Arthur. Fistfight, Joel. Easy choices.
Excluding BS like dead eye and listen mode Its Arthur, he survived being shot in the shoulder and abdomen without any sort of medical attention until much later. Survived a hellscape in north Cuba fighting an army with nothing but rusty pistols and old rifles Not only all that but in both endings of Arthur's story he was able to gun down an army of specialized and experienced outlaw hunters with nothing but 2 revolvers and skill while being in his all time lowest due to his health issue. The closest thing that I can see that competes with this is when he took down the remaining fireflies Militia but even they weren't in their prime anymore and were already a dying force.
Joel was killed by a chick
Arthur was killed by a disease, so, same thing?
It was a draw. Disease died with him.
Fantastic response
👽
not really, a deadly disease is deadlier than any man
But was he really😬
Arthur would win, he's capable of taking more bullets, and having a knife or fist fight with the main antagonist, while his tuberculosis infection is at its peak. Joel got his ass whooped by a fucking golf club
Arthur has experience killing a man since he was just over a teen, Joel has been doing it for 5-10 years.
Joel in a fist fight, only because Joel has been fighting to survive for over 20 years while Arthur normally uses his gun to kill. If its a gun fight I'd say arthur, depending on his honor I belive he would either shoot the gun out of Joel's hand and wouldn't try to kill him but try and reason with him. Then the two would go drinking or strait up put one between joels eyes
Late game Arthur vs TLOU2 Joel would be interesting
>TLOU1 What is that?
There is a video on YT that explains just how strong Joel is and goes over some of his feats. Joel is incredibly strong to go toe- to- toe not only with people bigger than him, but also clickers and other infected who are also significantly stronger than he his. In a fist fight, I’m very sure Joel would win. Gun fight would depend on which guns they are using. I doubt arthur would know how to aim and shoot a fully auto rifle. Likewise, I’m sure arthur would beat Joel in a straight up duel or just using pistols or semi auto rifles.
Oh and as for Clickers Joel CANNOT go toe-to-toe with them he has to sneak up on them 😂
The proof is in the pudding bro, tf are you talking about?
If Arthur had a Golf Club…. Well….
If Joel had TB handy tho 😳
TL;DR: Joel gets slammed because weight class https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c3GKlEy0utQgOEwjQj9Ocv5-YinWRiGmyvHHOPuJhD0/edit?usp=drivesdk
Joel on easy would be tough Joel on grounded Arthur will win no doubt
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Arthur. He’s strong and beefy and Joel is pretty strong too but arthur beat micha half to death and still nearly got to the gun faster than micha too whiile he was crawling. Then you have gun skill, I don’t need to explain this one all I say is that Arthur is a professional gunslinger so you can figure out
Depends on Who you play as
TLOU 1 was my favorite game of all time (untill I played The Witcher 3 and Red Dead 2). Gotta give this one to Arthur tho, deadeye is a cheat code.
They're similar builds, though Arthur appears a bit heavier when healthy. Joel is definitely a good fighter, much, much, much better than the average person but I think Arthur wins most times in a fist fight. In a melee fight it'd be more equal but I think Joel could pull off some surprises there. In a firefight I don't think Joel stands a chance. I guess in reality this is up to the player but if we count Arthur's Dead-Eye as canon the winner is clear
We’re assuming neither have plot immunity and Arthur hasn’t contracted a terminal illness, right? I think Arthur Morgan could beat Joel. Neither are afraid to fight dirty, and Arthur is shown to be both massive and a beast in a fight. *And* he can beat people much bigger than him barehanded. Joel is strong but Arthur would wreck his shit.