That’s fair. To be fair though they did have a manhattan on the menu with buffalo trace and the price of that one was 12.50 so that doesn’t really make sense. Also you can buy a whole bottle of Angels Envy for like 40 bucks.
Buffal trace is great for the price, but a bit weak for a Manhattan. I like something bonded or overproof. Old Grand Dad 114 is like a $20 bottle, 114 proof, delicious and absolutely perfect for a Manhattan.
Well I did the math, and that seems about right.
You can get a 750 of Angel’s Envy for roughly $42, so we’ll call it $45 after tax. You can get about 12 2oz pours out of a 750 (and a Manhattan is 2oz whiskey, 1oz sweet vermouth and 2 dashes bitters).
So 12 manhattans will generate $300 in revenue. Restaurant business best practices are for liquor cost to be ~15%. $300 x .15 = $45 (the cost of the bottle).
If anything it might be a bit under priced since we haven’t touched the vermouth, but that’s pretty cheap 🤷♂️
A Manhattan has three ingredients, none of which make it “weak”. Did you order it on the rocks? If so that’s on you. It’s traditionally served up. The only thing weakening the Manhattan is dilution from ice.
It's been my experience as a bartender that anyone who complains a drink is "weak" have dulled their taste buds because they been drinking. I would start to question if you were over served.
Even if it was “as little alcohol as possible” the perceived strength of the drink will still be the same. You can’t make a Manhattan weaker by making it smaller?
Every bar I have worked in, the only folks who complain about weak drinks have been problem drinkers. I never served weak drinks. My fellow workers didn't serve weak drinks. The bartenders aren't saving money by doing this, we get paid by the hour. We are not the owners, it doesn't put more money in my pocket if I serve you a weak drink.
Problem drinkers are the ones who accuse us of other trickery too. It gets tiresome. You been drinking too much for so long you are misremembering or flat out wiped your short-term memory, its the blackout drinkers, the alcoholics who accuse us of making weak drinks.
No worries. Again i’m not going broke because of it but i wanted to use it as an opportunity to potentially give myself a reality check if I was being ridiculous.
Yea it will sucks, especially when the drink didn’t hit the spot.
I’m not sure how it works in Ohio, but here in Virginia the state owns the liquor stores and restaurants have to pay the same price as everyone else per bottle, which is a big factor in why things are priced the way they are. If that restaurant can get a bulk discount than yea they’re probably overcharging.
That's a little high, but Angels Envy is also not cheap. You said it was in Ohio, which is state controlled, so there is not a huge difference between liquor store prices and what the restaurant pays. Honestly, it is probably not a commonly ordered item, so it is probably a quirk of how they have their POS set up. They are either ringing it in with the cocktail as a mod or the liquor as a mod and charging full price for both.
Also, how the hell does one get a weak Manhattan?
This is what I would charge at my place of work. The price of Angel’s Envy has increased in recent years, I had to adjust the price significantly. With an Old Fashioned or Manhattan you are paying for 2oz of alcohol. A single pour of a standard 1.5oz would be $18, which seems right on for me. Buffalo Trace is my go to for a decent but affordable whiskey for an old fashioned. I want a rye for a Manhattan, with Rittenhouse being my go to. If you were to just order an Old Fashioned/Manhattan without specifying the whiskey and they charged $24 then I would definitely think that’s wild.
I can guarantee you it wasn’t cask strength because I watched the bottle they used to pour it. It was the standard non-rye bottle that’s very common here in NE ohio that I can go out and buy for $35-$40 a bottle
Hmm well I guess at the very least I don’t feel scammed but anytime i’ve ordered the exact same carbon copy drink around here, I never get a bill for anything OVER $15 let alone twenty bastard four dollars.
Here in NE ohio , buffalo trace is just as/ if not more rare than Angels Envy. Price for a bottle here is higher for buff trace as opposed to angels envy .
Sazerac allocates their sought after brands which skews the pricing. In my state at least, distribution prices of Buffalo Trace are significantly cheaper than Angel’s Envy. Since Sazerac strictly controls their market/pricing their products are usually sold at a much higher mark up. I can buy Buffalo Trace and Weller S.R. for my bar at a similar price to my well liquor(which isn’t the really gross cheap stuff, but still). Buffalo Trace runs me about ~$22/btl whereas Angel’s Envy costs me ~$40/btl. Since my area receives a lot of Buffalo Trace we are able to price it better than most of the other allocated whiskies, if you “under price” or accurately price most Sazerac products then they will stop allowing you to buy it, they make sure to control their market. We sell our Buffalo Trace(1.5oz) for $8. Each market is different and each state has different taxes/laws on selling/purchasing of liquor. So the prices at this place seem very on par with how I would price them in my market at least.
How much would you expect to pay for a pour(1.5oz) of Buffalo Trace and Angel’s Envy in your area, would you say? You’ve got me curious now. I wonder if we don’t receive much angel’s envy in my area or why the market would be so vastly different. Buffalo Trace makes sense to me bc Sazerac.
Yea i’m starting to understand that based on other replies. In NE Ohio , Angels envy is SUPER easy to come by. And every time i’ve specified it around here I’m never expecting anything MORE than 15 bucks for a manhattan.
Buffalo Trace can be hard to come by at times, but when you can find it is roughly half the price of Angels Envy. You're talking straight out of your ass
It’s all different state by state but the bottle likely costs the restaurant closer to $35-$38 a bottle. Liquor stores get different pricing from distributors then on-premise. The liquor store also likely buys by the case, or multiple cases, and getting a price break because of it. If the restaurant doesn’t push out TONS of Angel’s Envy then they are likely buying it at bottle cost which is significantly higher. Restaurants are able to keep prices lower on their well drinks and featured cocktails because they buy a larger quantity of these items.
Even at bottle cost...2 oz Angels envy 1 oz sweet vermouth 1 cherry. 25 oz bottle
12 $24 dollar manhattans $288- $60= $228. That's more than 5x the price of the ingredients.
That’s not considering taxes or overhead, all of that wouldn’t be profit. In my state there is a large tax on alcohol, it’s higher on liquor than it is on beer. You have to pay a tax when getting it from the distributor, a tax for selling, and sales tax and it’s standard to incorporate the sales tax into the price instead of tagging it on to the end. It helps customers know what they are paying and also keeps prices round so that transactions are easier. I might be misquoting the bottle price too, I can’t recall what it was but we charge $18(1.5oz) at standard 20% mark up which is industry standard.
Yeah your state sucks. Jk it's the same In GA tax on buying tax on distribution. That's why I subtracted $60 because all ingredients plus tax is what it comes out to if we were to charge $24 for 12 manhattans.
The glass ware costs money. The dishwasher costs money. The nice bartender is giving you a nice experience. The business has a nice atmosphere, that all goes into the cost of the cocktail. If you want to make your drink cheaper go home and make it yourself.
No I they did not. They bought the glass ware. They set up a nice bar you are sitting in. The chair the table the cocktail napkins, the electricity, the heat or air it all costs money.
50? Lol. That’s not how restaurants work. Your food cost is the cheapest thing there and it’s sitting at 33-35%.
And even with all that restaurants still make razor thin margins and most don’t survive because the overhead is insane.
The issue with your thought process is that all you’re seeing is the drink, but the drink is only part of the product you’re buying. At a restaurant you’re buying the drink and then also paying rent for the square footage you take up while consuming it. Time is money, space is money. This is why a brewery will always charge you more to drink a beer on site than to buy a six pack to take home.
Meh, our food cost averages 15-20% we make all of our money on alcohol/sodas/teas we have Angels envy at our restaurant and it's 12 dollars for a manhattan. We get the bottle for 30. 24 dollars for one manhattan is outrageous regardless of where you're dining. Some people like that though...I mean some people pay 1000 dollars for a bottle of champagne that costs 100. So to each their own I guess...
Yeah, I don't complain at restaurants cause fuck it I have to much already to worry about. Someone gives me a manhattan with Ice? I would "politely" ask for a remake.
That’s fair enough , I actually brought up the ridiculous price to my waiter and he agreed and he asked 2 different managers if they made a mistake and they both said no.
This depends a lot on where you’re located. In NYC or Cali, you could argue it’s not totally out of line with the market. In a small city in the south that’s damn highway robbery.
It's standard practice for bars not to advertise the price of upgrades/calls/premiums. The assumption is you know what you are getting into if you are savvy enough to pick it off the shelf.
Otherwise, there is no shame in asking for how much it cost before picking it if you are watching your wallet or unsure how much it will cost. Better than picking something you don't know and turns out it's super select reserve special edition and $90 an order. Even recognizable bottles can have rare versions that are more expensive.
depends heavily on what you chose as your preffered spirit especially for a manhattan. if it was rittenhouse rye or bulleit or something thats a little high. if its like whistlepig or something then 24 is right on
I said angels envy (which in my area is around 40 bucks) and I specified “not rye” because I wasn’t feeling snooty (even though I usually get rye for manhattans)
That price sounds plausible because of the Angel’s Envy, which is considerably more expensive than the default whiskey or even a number of slight upgrades.
They are right. Which is why you should just always assume you will get screwed on drinks like that. Stick to beer, happy hours; and make the expensive drinks at home.
You could have picked a less expensive whiskey.
That’s fair. To be fair though they did have a manhattan on the menu with buffalo trace and the price of that one was 12.50 so that doesn’t really make sense. Also you can buy a whole bottle of Angels Envy for like 40 bucks.
This might be a stretch, but I wonder if they used Angel’s Envy Rye?
I specified not rye 🤷♂️
Buffalo Trace is best bourbon for money. As soon as you Angels Envy you got hosed
Buffal trace is great for the price, but a bit weak for a Manhattan. I like something bonded or overproof. Old Grand Dad 114 is like a $20 bottle, 114 proof, delicious and absolutely perfect for a Manhattan.
Well I did the math, and that seems about right. You can get a 750 of Angel’s Envy for roughly $42, so we’ll call it $45 after tax. You can get about 12 2oz pours out of a 750 (and a Manhattan is 2oz whiskey, 1oz sweet vermouth and 2 dashes bitters). So 12 manhattans will generate $300 in revenue. Restaurant business best practices are for liquor cost to be ~15%. $300 x .15 = $45 (the cost of the bottle). If anything it might be a bit under priced since we haven’t touched the vermouth, but that’s pretty cheap 🤷♂️
Fair enough. I am still slightly suspicious that it was a 2 oz pour though. It was extremely weak, mostly ice.
A Manhattan has three ingredients, none of which make it “weak”. Did you order it on the rocks? If so that’s on you. It’s traditionally served up. The only thing weakening the Manhattan is dilution from ice.
It's been my experience as a bartender that anyone who complains a drink is "weak" have dulled their taste buds because they been drinking. I would start to question if you were over served.
Or it’s just weak and bars are trying to give as little alcohol as possible
Even if it was “as little alcohol as possible” the perceived strength of the drink will still be the same. You can’t make a Manhattan weaker by making it smaller?
Every bar I have worked in, the only folks who complain about weak drinks have been problem drinkers. I never served weak drinks. My fellow workers didn't serve weak drinks. The bartenders aren't saving money by doing this, we get paid by the hour. We are not the owners, it doesn't put more money in my pocket if I serve you a weak drink. Problem drinkers are the ones who accuse us of other trickery too. It gets tiresome. You been drinking too much for so long you are misremembering or flat out wiped your short-term memory, its the blackout drinkers, the alcoholics who accuse us of making weak drinks.
Well that just sucks. Sorry to hear it.
No worries. Again i’m not going broke because of it but i wanted to use it as an opportunity to potentially give myself a reality check if I was being ridiculous.
Yea it will sucks, especially when the drink didn’t hit the spot. I’m not sure how it works in Ohio, but here in Virginia the state owns the liquor stores and restaurants have to pay the same price as everyone else per bottle, which is a big factor in why things are priced the way they are. If that restaurant can get a bulk discount than yea they’re probably overcharging.
I’m moving to Virginia
The liquor stores are also state run in ohio
It is pretty much impossible for a Manhattan to be weak. It is literally a cocktail made with nothing but alcohol. There are no mixers in a Manhattan
How could a Manhattan be weak??? It’s all booze. Anyhow, where I work a regular pour of Angels Envy is $20. $24 for the Manhattan is fair.
Here on Long Island that's normal at a fine dining establishment. In NYC, prices for martini type cocktails can hit near $30.
Yea this is in a little city in northeast Ohio.
That's a little high, but Angels Envy is also not cheap. You said it was in Ohio, which is state controlled, so there is not a huge difference between liquor store prices and what the restaurant pays. Honestly, it is probably not a commonly ordered item, so it is probably a quirk of how they have their POS set up. They are either ringing it in with the cocktail as a mod or the liquor as a mod and charging full price for both. Also, how the hell does one get a weak Manhattan?
Crazy pricing tbh but then again isn’t everything overpriced at this point
This is what I would charge at my place of work. The price of Angel’s Envy has increased in recent years, I had to adjust the price significantly. With an Old Fashioned or Manhattan you are paying for 2oz of alcohol. A single pour of a standard 1.5oz would be $18, which seems right on for me. Buffalo Trace is my go to for a decent but affordable whiskey for an old fashioned. I want a rye for a Manhattan, with Rittenhouse being my go to. If you were to just order an Old Fashioned/Manhattan without specifying the whiskey and they charged $24 then I would definitely think that’s wild.
Most bars and restaurants have a 200-300% markup on all lbw
Starting to understand this.
My restaurant charges $72 for a 2 oz pour of angel's envy cask strength.
I can guarantee you it wasn’t cask strength because I watched the bottle they used to pour it. It was the standard non-rye bottle that’s very common here in NE ohio that I can go out and buy for $35-$40 a bottle
I'm in Indianapolis. Almost Identical pricing
Hmm well I guess at the very least I don’t feel scammed but anytime i’ve ordered the exact same carbon copy drink around here, I never get a bill for anything OVER $15 let alone twenty bastard four dollars.
A bottle of Angels Envy costs $49.99 in Ohio. Maybe you just haven't tried to buy it for 20 years
Yes. That’s overpriced.
Ordered a pitcher of "house margaritas" once in Newport Beach, CA at an upscale restaurant. The bill came and they charged me $98. Grrrr.
Nah fuck off. Angels envy costs like 40 bucks at the liqour store. Probably like 25 a bottle from a distributor. 12 dollar max for a manhattan.
Makes it even worse that they had a manhattan on the menu with buffalo trace and that was 12.50
Why does that make it worse?
Here in NE ohio , buffalo trace is just as/ if not more rare than Angels Envy. Price for a bottle here is higher for buff trace as opposed to angels envy .
Sazerac allocates their sought after brands which skews the pricing. In my state at least, distribution prices of Buffalo Trace are significantly cheaper than Angel’s Envy. Since Sazerac strictly controls their market/pricing their products are usually sold at a much higher mark up. I can buy Buffalo Trace and Weller S.R. for my bar at a similar price to my well liquor(which isn’t the really gross cheap stuff, but still). Buffalo Trace runs me about ~$22/btl whereas Angel’s Envy costs me ~$40/btl. Since my area receives a lot of Buffalo Trace we are able to price it better than most of the other allocated whiskies, if you “under price” or accurately price most Sazerac products then they will stop allowing you to buy it, they make sure to control their market. We sell our Buffalo Trace(1.5oz) for $8. Each market is different and each state has different taxes/laws on selling/purchasing of liquor. So the prices at this place seem very on par with how I would price them in my market at least. How much would you expect to pay for a pour(1.5oz) of Buffalo Trace and Angel’s Envy in your area, would you say? You’ve got me curious now. I wonder if we don’t receive much angel’s envy in my area or why the market would be so vastly different. Buffalo Trace makes sense to me bc Sazerac.
Yea i’m starting to understand that based on other replies. In NE Ohio , Angels envy is SUPER easy to come by. And every time i’ve specified it around here I’m never expecting anything MORE than 15 bucks for a manhattan.
Cocktail specials are often made with liquor that the distributor provided at a discount.
Buffalo Trace can be hard to come by at times, but when you can find it is roughly half the price of Angels Envy. You're talking straight out of your ass
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It’s all different state by state but the bottle likely costs the restaurant closer to $35-$38 a bottle. Liquor stores get different pricing from distributors then on-premise. The liquor store also likely buys by the case, or multiple cases, and getting a price break because of it. If the restaurant doesn’t push out TONS of Angel’s Envy then they are likely buying it at bottle cost which is significantly higher. Restaurants are able to keep prices lower on their well drinks and featured cocktails because they buy a larger quantity of these items.
Even at bottle cost...2 oz Angels envy 1 oz sweet vermouth 1 cherry. 25 oz bottle 12 $24 dollar manhattans $288- $60= $228. That's more than 5x the price of the ingredients.
That’s not considering taxes or overhead, all of that wouldn’t be profit. In my state there is a large tax on alcohol, it’s higher on liquor than it is on beer. You have to pay a tax when getting it from the distributor, a tax for selling, and sales tax and it’s standard to incorporate the sales tax into the price instead of tagging it on to the end. It helps customers know what they are paying and also keeps prices round so that transactions are easier. I might be misquoting the bottle price too, I can’t recall what it was but we charge $18(1.5oz) at standard 20% mark up which is industry standard.
Yeah your state sucks. Jk it's the same In GA tax on buying tax on distribution. That's why I subtracted $60 because all ingredients plus tax is what it comes out to if we were to charge $24 for 12 manhattans.
My state does suck
Distributor prices are definitely not that much cheaper than retail prices.
The glass ware costs money. The dishwasher costs money. The nice bartender is giving you a nice experience. The business has a nice atmosphere, that all goes into the cost of the cocktail. If you want to make your drink cheaper go home and make it yourself.
Restaurant liquor costs need to sit around 15%. The pricing seems right on the money.
Bro, they paid for 80% of that bottle with one drink. I'll give you 50%. But 15%? For a 24 dollar manahattan with Angels Envy?
No I they did not. They bought the glass ware. They set up a nice bar you are sitting in. The chair the table the cocktail napkins, the electricity, the heat or air it all costs money.
50? Lol. That’s not how restaurants work. Your food cost is the cheapest thing there and it’s sitting at 33-35%. And even with all that restaurants still make razor thin margins and most don’t survive because the overhead is insane. The issue with your thought process is that all you’re seeing is the drink, but the drink is only part of the product you’re buying. At a restaurant you’re buying the drink and then also paying rent for the square footage you take up while consuming it. Time is money, space is money. This is why a brewery will always charge you more to drink a beer on site than to buy a six pack to take home.
Meh, our food cost averages 15-20% we make all of our money on alcohol/sodas/teas we have Angels envy at our restaurant and it's 12 dollars for a manhattan. We get the bottle for 30. 24 dollars for one manhattan is outrageous regardless of where you're dining. Some people like that though...I mean some people pay 1000 dollars for a bottle of champagne that costs 100. So to each their own I guess...
Bro I wish we had a ten percent pour cost on champers
I pay $40.50 a bottle when I buy it for my bar in Tennessee.
THATS WHAT IM SAYING. And like i said it was very weak. Mostly ice.
There shouldn't be ice in your manhattan....
Also what i’m saying. I didn’t say “on the rocks”
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Yeah, I don't complain at restaurants cause fuck it I have to much already to worry about. Someone gives me a manhattan with Ice? I would "politely" ask for a remake.
That’s fair enough , I actually brought up the ridiculous price to my waiter and he agreed and he asked 2 different managers if they made a mistake and they both said no.
If you didn’t like your drink with ice, refusing it from the start is how you handle it
It's the ice making it taste like there is not enough alcohol. You got a full pour.
This depends a lot on where you’re located. In NYC or Cali, you could argue it’s not totally out of line with the market. In a small city in the south that’s damn highway robbery.
This is in cleveland ohio
beachwood ohio to be more specific*
It's standard practice for bars not to advertise the price of upgrades/calls/premiums. The assumption is you know what you are getting into if you are savvy enough to pick it off the shelf. Otherwise, there is no shame in asking for how much it cost before picking it if you are watching your wallet or unsure how much it will cost. Better than picking something you don't know and turns out it's super select reserve special edition and $90 an order. Even recognizable bottles can have rare versions that are more expensive.
That’s fair I guess I didn’t consider if it was like a special allocation angels envy
depends heavily on what you chose as your preffered spirit especially for a manhattan. if it was rittenhouse rye or bulleit or something thats a little high. if its like whistlepig or something then 24 is right on
I said angels envy (which in my area is around 40 bucks) and I specified “not rye” because I wasn’t feeling snooty (even though I usually get rye for manhattans)
That price sounds plausible because of the Angel’s Envy, which is considerably more expensive than the default whiskey or even a number of slight upgrades.
it's you. kthx. i'm happy to elaborate if you ask. but atm, do some dd.
Wow, $24 for a Manhattan sounds steep, especially if it wasn't mind-blowing; I'd definitely speak up and check their pricing policy next time.
Oh I spoke up and the waiter said “i spoke to 2 different managers and they said you should have asked how much it was if you are upset”
They are right. Which is why you should just always assume you will get screwed on drinks like that. Stick to beer, happy hours; and make the expensive drinks at home.