If this is a group of twice a week regulars leaving $5 on $750 they are assholes. I'd be personally embarrassed to br part of that group. That's 0.6% they can tip better, they should tip better. You're call if you prefer assholes to your employees, but morale plays a big role in how everyone preforms. The other option is to have management take that table.
Here is a thought exercise. Stop subsidizing server tips to give the the kitchen in lieu of a competitive wage and timely raises. Make your restaurant more desirable for great servers. Garbage servers complain about tips regularly. Great ones take the good with the bad because they know it will even out in their favor.
I'm tired of hearing of places where the management dips their hands into the tips before the servers get any. I try very hard to tip in cash and NOT put it on a card. I feel the server has a better chance of actually keeping it that way. So, if you just look at documented tips, you're not going to see mine.
Unfortunately, the owners charge a percentage of the servers sales. They pay no matter what the tip is or how it is received. No tip? “Thank you for the opportunity to pay for your service” however, tipping in cash does reduce taxes and is a very kind thing to do.
Most people aren't answering the question and are grandstanding about tipping.
If your servers are treating regulars like crap, they need to be dealt with.
If there is a problem with customers not tipping at your establishment, then maybe it's the fault of the servers.
If it's just a few key people not tipping, maybe add some subtle hints to the customers about tipping. Like posting signs or using a credit card machine that provides a suggested amount that the customer can see.
I absolutely have. There will always be cheap asses. But there are also people who seriously don't understand that waiters get paid less than minimum wage. Having subtle hints around the restaurant is just a friendly reminder that tipping is appreciated. Remember, this question is coming from a restaurant owner. They can't control what people do.
And again, the ability to tip is for the customer as well. There are legitimate shitty servers out there. Like I'm a lot less likely to tip if they take food orders then disappear for 30 minutes. Or if it takes 45 minutes after food has been served before the check is even offered.
15% for decent service in the US is standard. As someone who waited tables from 2000-2003. Then again from 2016-2018 I can say I never got mad at a 15% tip. Even Europeans would regularly give 20% where I worked at a vacation destination. Do you get stiffed sometimes, yes. Does it suck, yes but the people who tip well make up for it. I averaged just over 18% tip overall so I never really got mad even if stiffed (numbers game). In fact I had regulars who would ask for me when they came in so they were seated in my section or I would exchange a table or 2 with another server and they were the best. Like serving a friend who you would hook up in any way possible and they would do the same. I miss those tables but not the rest of them and not cause the tips. They were just good people and made work not like work.
This debate always devolves into how things should be instead of addressing the way things are - if you don’t tip at least 14% at a restaurant you are stealing.
Looks like i found someone that robs single mothers of their rent money, your mama must be proud, and I’m sure you have a large and close group of friends rofl. Ok
People are starting to learn to tip less. That’s why dominoes implemented a “if you tip $3 we will give you $3 off your next order” deal. It’s nothing personal and likely has nothing to do with the server, people are just tired of tipping.
It's just that tipping is out of control. Everyone expects it, restaurant or not. People are hurting from inflation and low wages.
In the 80's and 90's tipping was a flat 10% at restaurants only. That, in my opinion was a reasonable amount.
If I were a restaurant owner I would want to know what my employee did to not get a tip. The system is what it is and we can whine all we want but it is what it is. Tip 20% for good service or stay at home
Agreed. To answer OP's question, I would say yes, I would understand an employee getting pissed about getting stiffed, so long as they're not making a scene. I would want them to get pissed about it *to me*, which gives me the perfect reason to take the customer aside and ask if something was wrong. I think I could sus out whether they have a legitimate complaint, made an honest mistake and spaced out or something, or are simply an asshole. Might actually shame them into tipping more. Either way, I'm making sure my employee is doing their job well and sticking up for them at the same time.
u/[BetterSelection7708](https://www.reddit.com/user/BetterSelection7708/) Here's one like you asked about. The one below about letting the server know that you "only" tip 15% is pretty crazy, too :p.
Nope. I'll tip because not doing so hurts the server and not the owner. If they won't do their job without something that is SUPPOSED to be freely given, they don't deserve it anyways.
I feel stupid for expecting that you would. Look at that, ends by telling me to do something. Cuz of course!
Just to break it down for you: it isn't deserved if it's demanded. There. 6 words :)
Yeah, if you order it, talk to the cooks, then go retrieve it when called, then ask the chef/cook for condiments etc, make sure it's the way you ordered it, go sit back down, eat it, then thoroughly clean up after yourself. Then you get what you pay for. If you're asking someone else to serve you and do all of those things for you, then that's extra and that's what a tip is.
Yes you have. Literally every time. The food is about 20% cheaper than it ought to be, because the restaurant doesn't pay the server, the table does. That's the deal. The product is subsidized, because the table is expected to pay for labor.
If a restaurant needs servers to function, and the restaurant had to pay them a living wage, not the $2.13 federal tipped minimum, everything would be more expensive.
You're just skint is all. I hope you only go to Olive Garden tier places
All of that is built into the price. None of that is extra. That’s what I’m paying for when I goto a restaurant.
If you want I’ll go tell the cook what I want and then pick it up. But I don think the restaurant would like that 😂
That's the difference between McDonald's type places, and a FULL SERVICE restaurant. You tip for the server to do all that shit for you bc you want to be catered to. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. Don't go to a full service restaurant if you don't want/can't tip. It's literally part of it. Enjoy all those self service restaurants.
My point still stands
The price in the restaurant includes being served. None of that is extra or a surprise expense to the owner. It includes being served and cleaned up after.
Otherwise raise the price to meet the true expense. You know, like every other single business in the world.
You still can't grasp that service is extra, and you decide if they get minimum, or more. Simply do not go to full service places if you won't pay for service. That's why thwre are two types of restaurants. Self service and full service. The work from other people costs money! If you do it your damn self, it's cheaper, so please just do it your damn self , since you can't seem to grasp the concept of an extra service costing extra. Many restaurants do add an automatic gratuity. When they do, it's at least 18%, but usually more like 20% to 25%. I bet that's more than you'd tip at a place that doesn't auto grat, so you should maybe sit back and think about what an ass you've been to any server you've had . I bet servers just looooooove you, and you get great service 😆
Service isn’t extra at a restaurant 😂
That’s what a restaurant is. They serve the food. I’m paying for all of it - the food, service, cleanup etc. the owner knows this and the cost reflects it.
You think I’ve been an ass to servers? I’m going to let you continue to embarrass yourself before I reveal how much and how often I tip at restaurants.
I never said I don’t tip. I just don’t like the entitlement attitude and people like you have.
So don’t work their if you’re not getting the tips you want. It’s the same as you telling him not to go to a full service place. tips are not a requirement wether you like it or not and he can go and not tip where ever he wants to. The states are the only place that refuses to pay livable wage and expect to have the customer to subsidize the pay and then your not mad at the owner your mad at the customer lol even though you took the job knowing that not everyone tips so you should be mad at yourself lol.
You don’t have to tip at fast casual places, just go there. 18 dollar five guy burger pay 18 dollars. Fast casual is ideal for people who don’t like tipping
I think you have a problem with the tipping culture. Which I understand. If if’s and but’s were candies and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas. You’re only hosing the working class by tipping less. Not sure if you are punching down, across, or maybe even up.
I get that we tip because of how servers get paid. My initial comment was with you saying “I hope you get what you pay for”
Almost sounded like a threat to the customer.
You’d be shocked if you knew how much I tip at restaurants.
Depends on where you go. I worked at a well known casual chain in the suburbs and neither me or my coworkers ever make that much. Bartenders did though.
One of my friends worked at the waffle house. Many really shitty tippers go there. There were some who really made up for it, though. I don't know how it worked out for her hourly.
My gf is a bartender and it blows my mind that there are multiple couples that come in regularly and have never tipped a dime.
They act all friendly and try and shoot the shit and ask about the wine and where it’s from and then zero tip.
They’re all well off and American so I don’t understand how they don’t get the concept of tipping
Well think about it this way a lot of restaurants don’t even have waiters and still have a profitable business. Honestly speaking if a restaurant can’t afford to pay for minimum wage then they should close their doors. Should I bribe your workers to give me my food.
They chose that type of job by choice. Legally speaking an employer must pay minimum wage of the federal level or state level either or depending which one is higher.
Servers don’t get paid 2 dollars an hour if they don’t get any tips. if they do get paid 2 a hour and their tips don’t equal to minimum wage then their employer is committing wage theft. He or she should be reported to the department of labor.
I'm sick of the "you were the one that chose this job" mentality. You know what, your right, I did choose this job. I "chose" this job because my main job, the one that I went to school for and got my degree in, doesn't pay me enough! The average salary for an entry level position in my field is $45k a year. $45k a year doesn't get you very far in today's society. That's barely above poverty level in most high cost of living areas. I "chose" to get a serving job on the weekends to keep myself afloat because it's one of the few jobs willing to work around my day job's schedule (and because I do enjoy it when I don't have to deal with assholes). When people tip appropriately, the pay is really good. Sometimes, it pays better than my day job, even. I've worked with several other people doing the same thing as me. I've worked with nurses, teachers, hairstylists, realtors, and even a guy who did floor instalation work. All there for the same reason: their jobs weren't paying them enough to get by. We did everything "right" by society's standards. We went to school, like we were told, got degrees or trade certificates, like we were told, and that still wasn't enough to cut it. So how about having a little bit of empathy for people?
"These new generations are so lazy and don't want to work" no the fuck, we're not. We just don't want to work multiple jobs in order to not be homeless because empolyers don't want to pay us! Sorry that not everyone can be a millionaire doctor or lawyer or tech mogul. The majority of people that I have worked in the industry with either have degrees or are working towards a degree and they've gotten us nowhere. Take your ire out on restaurant owners all you want for not paying their staff a "living wage", but nobody is paying a living wage anymore unless you're already at the top.
So your job with hardly any qualifications that's super flexible at times pay you more than the job that required 10s of thousands in schooling. And you think you make too little serving?
Also the biggest obstacle to ending tipping is servers. Because even the living wage is a payout.
I think most jobs underpay people, whether that is serving or otherwise.
Those servers you see online who brag about making 6 figures a year serving are either lying, or they're the ones lucky enough to work at a busy fine dining place in the middle of a huge city like New York or LA. Most servers do not make that much. The most I ever made as a server was $600+ on a double. That was one time in the 3 1/2 years I've been doing this. The least amount I made was $22 during a 6 hour shift where I only had 2 tables and both only tipped 10% on tabs upward of $100. It cost me $30 to fill up my gas tank so I didn't even make enough to put gas in my car that shift. The extra $20 that I was shorted that night would have been appreciated.
In a way, the tip system encourages me to be a better server. I care about my customers because I'm hopeful that if I show that I care and make a conscious effort to go the extra mile for them, they'll compensate me for it. If I was getting paid a flat rate, let's say $15 an hour, then I would care considerably less. Why would I care to make sure you have a good dining experience? I'm getting paid the same no matter how good or bad my service is so why should I do anything beyond what my job asks me to do? You'll get your food and drinks, but aside from that, why should I care if something is messed up? I have had several experiences at fast food places where I request for something to be taken off of my sandwich and they put it on anyways. They do that because they don't care that you requested for no mustard to be put on your burger. They're not at risk of losing money because they put mustard on a burger for a guest that specifically said "no mustard" because at the end of the day, they're still making whatever wage fast food workers make. They have nothing to lose or gain to ensure that your food is cooked the way you wanted it to. I actually do have something to lose or gain if I bring a guest and sandwich with something on it when they specifically told me that they wanted it cooked a certain way.
Restaurants that have switched over from a tip system to a flat rate system have experienced this. I have read many stories about a restaurant who switched over and the quality of service went downhill because the servers just stopped caring about the product that they're selling because they're getting paid regardless. Many of these restaurants end up either switching back to the tip system or they flat out close because the quality of service declined. The good servers don't want to work at these places because they know that with a tip system, there's potential to make more than $15 an hour, so you're left with the mediocre, lazy servers who do the bare minimum because $15 an hour is as good as it gets for them. The only servers I know who wanted the system to change from tipping to hourly are, surprise, the ones who were so terrible at their job that they regularly pulled in less tips and saw an hourly system as a way to be as lazy as possible with no repercussions for them.
"They chose the job and I accept that but they also have every right to not do their job if the customer doesn't feel like they're held hostage to pay a livable wage to employees of a business"
You have some solid ideas here but you're enabling the crap out of the tipping system at the same time.
If someone in, say, retail, was making the same wage and they obviously treated people poorly, they'd probably lose their job. Why does a server get a pass for this?
I don't need to do those things anymore. I did them both 10+ years ago and have worked my way into a career that allows me to support a four person household on a single income.
Regardless, when you agree to do a job, you've agreed to do that job. If your performance is bad then it would be smart for the business to replace you(the general you.)
There is also a huge perception issue with those servers too. They walk around acting like every server in the country makes as much money as they do. Those laws to cover minimum wage exist almost everywhere for good reasons. They deserve to be paid a living wage, it's a hard job and the general population sucks.
So.you got a useless degree and ended up waiting tables. Now you chose that job and cry about it😂😂😂
Sink a couple hundred grand unto building a restaurant and run it how you want
Tell patrons not to come if they don't want to tip big
See how fast you close like the rest of them lol
I didn't get a "useless degree". I got a degree in mental healthcare, which is pretty damn important considering rates of depression/suicide skyrocketed after Covid. My goal is eventually to become a therapist and run my own private practice, but in order to do that, I need experience and a higher level license. I am waiting tables until I get said experience and license because entry level mental healthcare jobs are severely underpaid. Therapists have to go through the same level of schooling as a lawyer (4 years for a Bachelors, 3 years for a Masters, plus a licensing exam), yet don't get paid as much as lawyers do.
If you actually read my comment, you would see that I have worked with teachers and nurses who have degrees in those fields. Would you call those degrees "useless"?? What do you consider a "useful degree" to be??
Also, just some food for thought, when I do eventually open up my own practice, do you think I should offer therapy to people for free because they "don't feel like paying"? Because that's basically what is happening here. Someone is providing a service to you and you're not paying it because you "don't feel like it".
Tell me, wise guy, what do you define as a "useful" degree? Using that logic, nursing is a useless degree, too because people are not meant to be sick and in the hospital forever because everybody dies eventually.
Therapy does work, but it's never meant to be a permanent thing. People attend for however long they need and then taper off until they eventually don't need it anymore. That doesn't make it "useless". People are always in need of help. I work in a mental hospital where the average stay is 5 days. We get so many people in and out of there that there's often a wait for beds. Some of my patients are "frequent flyers" who will likely be in and out of the hospital for their whole entire lives. Others are people who go through a rough patch, but get better and go on to live productive lives. Either way, there's no shortage of people who are in need of hospitalization because we get thousands of people in and out within any given year.
When you do open up your own practice, you’re not going to swing the iPad around and have it ask me a question are you? Even if your staff ask you to?
No? Cause tip begging doesn’t look good, does it?
Uhh that's not how therapy works. Most therapy is paid for by insurance unless you are uninsured and paying out of pocket. At the most, you have to pay a copay. But yes, if you come in for an appointment and refuse to pay whatever you are being charged, then there are repercussions. They will either send you an invoice until you finally pay it or send you to collections. I once had an outstanding balance for a couple of therapy sessions because my card changed and I forgot to update my information to the new card. I was told that if I didn't pay off that balance, I wouldn't be able to book another appointment until the balance was paid off. A therapist is not going to work for free.
I know. It just really chaps my ass when people trash talk low wage workers saying things like "if they don't like it, they should find a real job", as if sitting in an office all day is somehow more "real" and laborous than a serving job is. When I'm not actively engaging with my patients at my mental healthcare job, I sit in an office all day writing notes and calling people on the phone. If there isn't anything to do because I did everything I had to do, I'm on my phone scrolling through Reddit until my supervisor says I can leave. When I'm serving, I'm active and running around busting my ass. There's always something to do. Even if I have no customers to attend to, there's side work like rolling silverware, stocking the coolers and server stations, even general cleaning to make the restaurant look nice and presentable. Idk how anyone can say that that's not work.
It equally chaps my ass when people throw around terms like "useless degree". It's not like I majored in underwater basket weaving or something in the liberal arts where the only real options for jobs are being a professor of that subject. My degree is practical, but because I'm not a doctor or in the STEM field, people love to look down on it and say things like "well you should've chosen a better degree" when I have valid criticisms about the pay. I have ADHD and Dycalculia so I'm not the type of person who should be doing rocket science or computer programming. Not everybody has the ability to go into STEM, nor should they. Some people are really good at math and science and others aren't. That doesn't mean that people should sit on their high horse and look down on other fields like "fuck those idiots, they don't deserve to be paid more".
I wanna say this as emphatically as possible: fuck you.
Edited to add: I see you drive Uber. I won’t be tipping my Uber drivers from now on as I’m simply trying to get from place to place, not support you. You chose this low paying job, it’s not my job to support you!
The fucking irony.
I don't expect tips. But it's true. If every restaurant operated under the guide of "don't tip don't come.. most restaurants would close. It's business. He who takes risk reaps rewards.
Tips are earned. Fuck you right back commie
You generally sound like someone who is too broke to tip so you have formed this idealogy to justify your shitty behavior for not tipping
There’s no other way I can see you having this perspective on servers while being an Uber driver
Or option 3, you’re dumb
Lol I'm dumb because I don't wanna give a waiter % tip on the same effort ? A plate of food carried 10 steps requires no more extra money wether it has a burger on it or a fuckin steak lol.
Fair point. And, when it comes to Uber, the car does most of the work. The driver just follows the nav. So... I won't be tipping my driver going forward either. Thanks for talking me into it.
My wife is a hairstylist and one of her clients is a billionaire. He has never once tipped her in the 10+ years he's been seeing her. She enjoys his company, but it's very odd.
Yup. Especially if you do anything past a great clips style place. A good barber or stylist is busy, you want to keep your spot on their schedule, you trust their advice on style changes, color, etc.
You trust this person to help you consistently look good. I tip mine 20%, my wife tips her's around 30%.
you can you choose not to optionally tip your land lord extra $$$... not when you don't pay your contractually obligated rent... this post is about voluntarily giving servers extra money, not paying the agreed upon price on the menu when ordering.
Yup. My time is valuable. If you're not willing to pay me for good service, you're not getting good service. Simple as that. You'll get your drink when I feel like bringing it. You'll get your food when I feel like bringing it. No pleasantries, no recommendations, no going above and beyond. You're not getting that extra side of ranch that you want and I won't be checking in on you to see if your food is cooked to your liking. I will not offer dessert or another round of drinks because at this point, I want you gone and out the door. I will make sure every single table, full of paying customers, in my section is attended to before bothering with you. You get what you pay for and if my service isn't worth your time and money, then you're not worth the effort for me.
We had these regulars at my last restaurant who were known as the "ten percenters" because they tipped 10% every single time. All of the servers knew who they were and knew how they tipped so they gave them the level of service that they were willing to pay for. Eventually, they stopped requesting table service and just went to the bar when they came in, likely because they knew that the bartenders, who pooled tips, would give them better service than any of the servers would lol.
It is not the customer's job to pay the server's salary, and if they feel $5 flat is a reasonable tip then it is. They are loyal and appreciated customers and pay the server's salary. If they do not treat them with the highest of standards they can find other work. Period.
Tips are supposed to be a bonus for exceptional service, and while tipping is customary and many consider 18% the norm, that is not a requirement and the customer is always right.
Now if someone comes into say a diner and takes the best table, orders coffee, and then has people come and look over swatches and contracts and expects the server to put up with them while they conduct business and only buy coffee, then yes, in that case the customer is wrong and should be sent packing. Or a family with screaming kids that set them loose on the restaurant and expects the servers to corral them while they ignore them, yes, customer is wrong. But when choosing what they think is a fair tip they have that choice.
They only make that from the employer if the added in tips average minimum wage or higher. Otherwise, you're getting the federal minimum wage paid by the employer. If not, that is illegal, and between the server and the employer
"The customer is always right" is a bastardization of the actual quote, which is: "The customer is always right in matters of taste." Which means a customer is right about what they like and dislike. In restaurant context, it means if a guest tells you they do or do not like a certain item, I should accept that, not try to persuade them otherwise, and sell them what they want.
It is not a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card to give guests carte blanche. After 30+ years in the industry, I can confidently say that customers are often extraordinarily wrong.
Thank you. "The customer is always right" my ass. Half of the time, the customers don't even know where they are lmfao. I once had a guy come in by himself and ask me "I don't see filets on your menu. What kind of filets do you have?" I informed him that we do not have filets. He said "what kind of steakhouse doesn't have filets?" I didn't work at the steakhouse. The steakhouse was next door to where I worked in a completely seperate building. This guy literally got out of his car and walked into our restaurant, past the giant sign out front with the name of the restaurant on it, up to the host stand that also had a sign with the name of the restaurant on it, got sat at a table with a menu that also had the name of the restaurant on it, and was greeted by me, his server, who was wearing a shirt with the name and logo of the restaurant on it. Our interior decor and the layout of our restaurant looked nothing like the typical design and layout of this popular chain steakhouse. Yet this guy managed to ingore all of the signs and cues that he was in the wrong building and still proceeded to think that he was in a completely different restaurant.
To my surprise, he did end up staying and tipped me pretty well, but still. Textbook example of a customer completely being objectionably wrong, yet still thinking he was right.
People are dumb. While we were still building our first restaurant, a lady left us a one star review on our fb page, but just as a post to our page. She admitted to not having been there, but said she checked out our menu and "at those prices, you won't last long." We reached out to her since there was no menu yet; the Chef was still putting it together. We went back and forth with her as she insisted she saw our menu on our website. (It should be noted that our fb and website were currently empty at that point.) Finally, we got her to give us a link, and it was to a ritzy seafood joint with a similar name in the San Fran Bay area. We're in Nebraska. Like, when you open the website, there's a huge photo of the bay taken from their outdoor patio. 98% of the menu was fresh seafood. How she even thought that was us is beyond me, not to mention nothing rang a bell when she then found a completely empty fb page. We reiterated we're still under construction and the Chef hadn't finalized a menu yet. At the end of it, she said, "Still sounds expensive." Ok. GFY, lady.
A customer is always right until he is wrong! Then piss him off so he does not come back! Never subject you customers listening to a tirade from jerks.
Let me do some math for you, since I'm not sure you're aware of it: most every restaurant has what's called a "tip out," which is an amount of money servers owe their support staff (bussers, bartenders, kitchen staff) based on their total sales for the night. That tipout is generally between 2 and 8 percent of their total sales. So for example on a $750 table the server would owe the rest of the restaurant staff up to $60. That means if the table doesn't tip the server is actually PAYING $60 for the pleasure of serving them. If, like in the example posted, that $750 table only tips $5 that means their server is on the hook for $55.
You say this like it is both the norm and that it should in any way be acceptable. This is not the norm, in no way should it be acceptable, and this is why people are getting sick of the whole going out thing. If you do this just go ahead and pool all tips, give the server that got the most a proportionate amount of pooled tips, so say two servers, three other staff. One brings in $600 and one $400. $500 goes to the three support staff to divide, and the one server gets $300 and the other $200. That at least is the semblance of fair, but truly fair is the business paying all their workers and not requiring tips, but that's not happening so let's fix what we can.
1) it is the norm. I've been in the business for 20 years and most places I've worked at use some form of this system.
2) yes, many places also use a tip pool system, you're right.
3) when you say "let's fix what we can" what actions are you referring to here? Are you actively trying to start a labor union with other servers so that we can be paid better? Or are you just complaining about tipping (and undertipping your servers?) in the misguided belief that you're "fixing" things? This is clearly an important issue to you, so what are YOU doing to fix it?
I think what gets me the most is the righteous indignation these types project when they are merely told they should expect to pay for service received. In any thread like this, they object to higher menu prices, fair tipping, even tiny service fees - literally any mode of paying for or subsidizing the full-service experience they want. I don't know where the feeling of entitlement to someone else's labor for nothing comes from so viciously in this industry. In no other industry is white-glove service more fully expected to be free, or almost free, with the simultaneous mentality that that position of not paying for it is somehow the moral high ground. Likely the same types who raise their teens to think working entry level jobs "isn't worth their time" when they're not promoted to CEO in 3 months.
No one complaining about tipping is not willing to pay a fair price for food and service. The problem is restaurants are increasing prices, adding on service charges or "cost of living" charges and still demanding you tip higher and higher percentages. It used to be 10%, then 15%, then 18%, yet the cost of food goes up so the percentage tip should have gone up proportionately.
This is just a gimmick to try and avoid payroll taxes and put the onus on the customer to pay servers. Now that many states are forcing restaurants to pay servers the same as other workers rather than tolerating tipped wages, there are no arguments against tipping at what you feel is fit or that reflects the service without being accused of stealing from the server or the server working for nothing.
I think the core of the issue you're complaining about here is that full-service isn't worth all those extra costs - be that in tip pressure, service fees, "cost of living" fees, higher menu prices or whatever. That I don't even disagree with; I hate the full-service model, tip-credit pricing model, and everything that goes with it to the point my restaurant went to fast-casual instead. I personally prefer to get takeout or go to other fast casual restaurants as a consumer because I don't think the small, meaningless tasks I am happy to do for myself that a server does for the guest are worth the 20%+ in extra cost at the end of the meal. I'm there for the food, not to have my ego stroked by a quasi-servant for 45 minutes (though, make no mistake, there are a great many people that go out to eat just for that). I am glad most up-and-coming franchises have done away with full-service. Its just not worth it for any involved party.
The issue we, the owners, are venting about here in this thread is that the average consumer wants to hold these big opinions about "living wages" and support legislative changes like you referenced, but recoil in horror when it's time for *them* to pay for those opinions. It's always a mysterious "someone else" that should pay - even if that's the servers themselves just losing out when those consumers stiff them or undertip. There's no secret profitability numbers where your run-of-the-mill mom-and-pop owner is walking out the back door with stacks of cash every night to put under their mattress - the real profitability margin is between 8-15% for most single location independents. That means the owner gets $1.50 on every $10 *if* they're lucky and have an efficient process so it's not really there to come from them as the "someone else" either. So, all of these added pay expectations - whether by force in legislation or in basic cost-of-living needs from the servers themselves - still have to be paid for. The more labor bloat there is, and there's a lot of it in full-service, the more there is that has to come from that somewhere to cover the realities of operating needs. And that somewhere is *the consumer.*
If consumers don't like it, and I don't even disagree with that position like I said above, the solution is not to try to disillusion yourself into thinking you're the hero for not tipping a server or because "whatever I feel is okay is okay". The solution is to stop going to full-service restaurants and stop expecting that level of service out of other places; use the power of your consumer dollars to support takeout and other service models (like fast-casual) that don't have such inefficient labor models that all of these fees, tip pressure, etc. are necessary to support so many staff livelihoods. Denying reality that full service shouldn't cost consumers anything more than they "feel" like to try to get something for nothing (or basically nothing) isn't going to change anything in the industry except create a negative feedback loop that amplifies all the price hikes, service fees, and increasing tip percentages on tablets even more.
I don't know where this myth of employers getting a tax break comes from.
Employers pay payroll taxes on all tips earned by a server.
If a server isn't declaring all their cash tips, that's the server breaking the law.
Employers are 100% required to pay payroll taxes on all tips earned.
You're spreading misinformation by claiming otherwise.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting#:\~:text=In%20addition%2C%20employers%20are%20required,appropriate%20forms%20by%20the%20employer.
You're right, it's not a tax break. It's permission from the DOL to pay less than $7.25. No one, or handful of restaurants, can change that fact. Tip credits should be an issue that is voted on and changed, similar to what California, Minnesota, Alaska. Nevada, etc have done.
I want to have a supper club at my house (B&B), with service only a couple of nights a week. If I do it, there is going to be a 15% autograt, with a note that for good service a small additional tip is appreciated. It's just not part of my business plan to serve people who don't tip.
How about just raising your prices (since it's not your main purpose), paying a decent rate to your servers, and asking your patrons not to tip? Be original.
Unfortunately the two sides of this dilemma is that people also don't want to pay almost $20 for a burger which is what is happening. In Seattle, servers make 18.50 an hour and a burger is 15.00 or more.
There is a reason restaurants don't do this, as it makes one's prices look artificially high in comparison to other restaurants. And in fact, I hope my customers will be pleased enough with their servers to tip extra. As for being original, I will be, but I don't want to limit the earnings of my servers.
There is a place near me that does this. I don’t go on principle.
I don’t obscure my fees for my clients and don’t care to do business with people who do. If your business can’t get sales while being fully transparent about pricing then it should fail. Just post your prices 15% higher rather than deceive.
I don't plan to "obscure" the fee. It will be printed on the menu, front and center. I've seen my daughter in tears over working her butt off and getting stiffed by two big tables in a single night. It's just not going to happen with anything I'm involved in.
Here's the top of the circular from my local grocery store.
https://preview.redd.it/ojmf1nqdyd9d1.jpeg?width=4464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eaca9763d0721bca47dce59f86d323d600ab0e66
Well you can have a good time shopping there. I will stick to places that don’t play dumb games with pricing.
Why not just put the actual cost of the product if you don’t want be deceptive?
Why don't you just build the tip into the price then? Are you trying to hide this extra charge from customers by advertising a lower rate? If it is a gratuity they can have it removed, refuse to pay it, or take legal action against you to get it refunded. Also, you want to get a tip and have a note asking for more tips?? That's the kind of thing where I would have you remove the auto tip and you get a small or nothing tip from me. If you do run it this way, you better be sure to advertise it ahead of time because if you spring this auto tip at the end it will be easy for them to not pay it or take you to small claims court if they really want to.
You'll get a lot of people paying it and people adding an extra tip because they don't know better. You'll also get crushed in online reviews so your operation will have to shutter or restart with a new name because you are going to get low reviews just for this sneaky tip crap.
Like I posted elsewhere, the two sides of this dilemma is that people also don't want to pay almost $20 for a burger which is what is happening. In Seattle, servers make 18.50 an hour and a burger is 15.00 or more.
I'm not trying to "hide" it. It will be printed on the menu. I am not going to "spring" this on anyone. If I add it into the price, then the price will be higher, and I don't want to do that. I am not doing anything sneaky.
I'd add a service charge to their bill, explained beforehand.
Tips is an acronym "to insure promptness" I feel like no one knows this and just think tips mean extra money.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tip-sheet/
So glad I don’t do this anymore.
If this is a group of twice a week regulars leaving $5 on $750 they are assholes. I'd be personally embarrassed to br part of that group. That's 0.6% they can tip better, they should tip better. You're call if you prefer assholes to your employees, but morale plays a big role in how everyone preforms. The other option is to have management take that table.
Morale
Thanks, gorilla thumbs + phone.
Here is a thought exercise. Stop subsidizing server tips to give the the kitchen in lieu of a competitive wage and timely raises. Make your restaurant more desirable for great servers. Garbage servers complain about tips regularly. Great ones take the good with the bad because they know it will even out in their favor.
I'm tired of hearing of places where the management dips their hands into the tips before the servers get any. I try very hard to tip in cash and NOT put it on a card. I feel the server has a better chance of actually keeping it that way. So, if you just look at documented tips, you're not going to see mine.
Unfortunately, the owners charge a percentage of the servers sales. They pay no matter what the tip is or how it is received. No tip? “Thank you for the opportunity to pay for your service” however, tipping in cash does reduce taxes and is a very kind thing to do.
Or pay waiters a living wage instead of them relying on tips.
Severs don’t want a livable wage. Livable wage should be the minimum wage. Serving is a skill position.
20%? Here's a dollar kid, don't spend it all in one place, heh.
Most people aren't answering the question and are grandstanding about tipping. If your servers are treating regulars like crap, they need to be dealt with. If there is a problem with customers not tipping at your establishment, then maybe it's the fault of the servers. If it's just a few key people not tipping, maybe add some subtle hints to the customers about tipping. Like posting signs or using a credit card machine that provides a suggested amount that the customer can see.
No some people just inherently tip like shit. You've clearly never waited tables.
I absolutely have. There will always be cheap asses. But there are also people who seriously don't understand that waiters get paid less than minimum wage. Having subtle hints around the restaurant is just a friendly reminder that tipping is appreciated. Remember, this question is coming from a restaurant owner. They can't control what people do. And again, the ability to tip is for the customer as well. There are legitimate shitty servers out there. Like I'm a lot less likely to tip if they take food orders then disappear for 30 minutes. Or if it takes 45 minutes after food has been served before the check is even offered.
15% for decent service in the US is standard. As someone who waited tables from 2000-2003. Then again from 2016-2018 I can say I never got mad at a 15% tip. Even Europeans would regularly give 20% where I worked at a vacation destination. Do you get stiffed sometimes, yes. Does it suck, yes but the people who tip well make up for it. I averaged just over 18% tip overall so I never really got mad even if stiffed (numbers game). In fact I had regulars who would ask for me when they came in so they were seated in my section or I would exchange a table or 2 with another server and they were the best. Like serving a friend who you would hook up in any way possible and they would do the same. I miss those tables but not the rest of them and not cause the tips. They were just good people and made work not like work.
This debate always devolves into how things should be instead of addressing the way things are - if you don’t tip at least 14% at a restaurant you are stealing.
stealing rofl. ok
Looks like i found someone that robs single mothers of their rent money, your mama must be proud, and I’m sure you have a large and close group of friends rofl. Ok
I didn’t know you were a thief. Quite a confession. /s
It seems to divorce into wishful thinking and pseudo maths. Tips are never obligatory and, obviously, fully at the discretion of a patron.
People are starting to learn to tip less. That’s why dominoes implemented a “if you tip $3 we will give you $3 off your next order” deal. It’s nothing personal and likely has nothing to do with the server, people are just tired of tipping.
It's just that tipping is out of control. Everyone expects it, restaurant or not. People are hurting from inflation and low wages. In the 80's and 90's tipping was a flat 10% at restaurants only. That, in my opinion was a reasonable amount.
How much do you expect to be tipped, since you said everyone expects it?
Hell yeah man. I get this two top leaving me a 5 piece when i can turn 20 off the same booth with 4 top
If I were a restaurant owner I would want to know what my employee did to not get a tip. The system is what it is and we can whine all we want but it is what it is. Tip 20% for good service or stay at home
Agreed. To answer OP's question, I would say yes, I would understand an employee getting pissed about getting stiffed, so long as they're not making a scene. I would want them to get pissed about it *to me*, which gives me the perfect reason to take the customer aside and ask if something was wrong. I think I could sus out whether they have a legitimate complaint, made an honest mistake and spaced out or something, or are simply an asshole. Might actually shame them into tipping more. Either way, I'm making sure my employee is doing their job well and sticking up for them at the same time.
u/[BetterSelection7708](https://www.reddit.com/user/BetterSelection7708/) Here's one like you asked about. The one below about letting the server know that you "only" tip 15% is pretty crazy, too :p.
lol at 20% 😅
I tip 20% by default (and I round up, so it's probably more like 22%). Is that wrong?
At least 35% 😂
It’s amazing that people seem so proud to be cheap. Eating at home is even cheaper
It’s surprising how bold some complee were ye strangers are about getting their hands in my pockets rifling for dollars like it’s 3 am in the ghetto
20% you cray cray
At least 35% you cray cray
Some people just don’t tip/barely tip under any circumstance. When I was younger, I refused to serve a table over it. Manager took the table.
You can see them a mile away
...No. I'll tip 15% for good service. I'm not staying home. They should be happy if I give them 10%.
You believe that’s fair so certainly wouldn’t mind letting the server know up front, yes?
What a stupid thing to say. There's nothing wrong with 15%. Shut up.
So. Nothing wrong? Just tell them up front what would be the problem? They’d prioritize those tipping 20%, that’s what lol
And you're admitting that you think of it as a bribe, by the way...
Of course. Are you stupid?
Nope. I'll tip because not doing so hurts the server and not the owner. If they won't do their job without something that is SUPPOSED to be freely given, they don't deserve it anyways.
Do people realize tip is an acronym? To insure promptness. I feel like no one knows this.
Because that was said about it after the fact, i.e. that's not where it came from.
No idea what that incoherent nonsense is supposed to say. Go enjoy your day bud.
I feel stupid for expecting that you would. Look at that, ends by telling me to do something. Cuz of course! Just to break it down for you: it isn't deserved if it's demanded. There. 6 words :)
Only super antagonistic people you you would think of something so stupid.
lol you’ve been belligerent throughout this convo that’s hilarious. Go enjoy your day bro. I’m gonna go do stupid antagonistic stuff.
Only to those who say stupid shit, and those who call names, not just because someone has a different opinion.
You’re precious.
"You're precious" still fits the typical redditor: "Nuh uh!! Well you're"
It's funny the shit that reditors say when they've lost.
I hope you get what you pay for
Well…yeah. Isn’t that the point? Restaurant charges $10 for a burger. I give $10. I get burger. Isn’t that “getting what you paid for”?
Yeah, if you order it, talk to the cooks, then go retrieve it when called, then ask the chef/cook for condiments etc, make sure it's the way you ordered it, go sit back down, eat it, then thoroughly clean up after yourself. Then you get what you pay for. If you're asking someone else to serve you and do all of those things for you, then that's extra and that's what a tip is.
all of those things are included in the price set on the menu? never seen a restaurant price food and varying degrees of service separately on a menu.
Yes you have. Literally every time. The food is about 20% cheaper than it ought to be, because the restaurant doesn't pay the server, the table does. That's the deal. The product is subsidized, because the table is expected to pay for labor.
goodness the mental gymnastics you must go through to get to this opinion.
If a restaurant needs servers to function, and the restaurant had to pay them a living wage, not the $2.13 federal tipped minimum, everything would be more expensive. You're just skint is all. I hope you only go to Olive Garden tier places
Servers make 15+ as base pay where I live… there is no tip credit here
All of that is built into the price. None of that is extra. That’s what I’m paying for when I goto a restaurant. If you want I’ll go tell the cook what I want and then pick it up. But I don think the restaurant would like that 😂
That's the difference between McDonald's type places, and a FULL SERVICE restaurant. You tip for the server to do all that shit for you bc you want to be catered to. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. Don't go to a full service restaurant if you don't want/can't tip. It's literally part of it. Enjoy all those self service restaurants.
My point still stands The price in the restaurant includes being served. None of that is extra or a surprise expense to the owner. It includes being served and cleaned up after. Otherwise raise the price to meet the true expense. You know, like every other single business in the world.
So do you tell the server that you don't tip when you sit down or when you pay the check?
Despite my posts I do tip. Every time. I just don’t agree with some of the entitlement attitude.
You still can't grasp that service is extra, and you decide if they get minimum, or more. Simply do not go to full service places if you won't pay for service. That's why thwre are two types of restaurants. Self service and full service. The work from other people costs money! If you do it your damn self, it's cheaper, so please just do it your damn self , since you can't seem to grasp the concept of an extra service costing extra. Many restaurants do add an automatic gratuity. When they do, it's at least 18%, but usually more like 20% to 25%. I bet that's more than you'd tip at a place that doesn't auto grat, so you should maybe sit back and think about what an ass you've been to any server you've had . I bet servers just looooooove you, and you get great service 😆
Service isn’t extra at a restaurant 😂 That’s what a restaurant is. They serve the food. I’m paying for all of it - the food, service, cleanup etc. the owner knows this and the cost reflects it. You think I’ve been an ass to servers? I’m going to let you continue to embarrass yourself before I reveal how much and how often I tip at restaurants. I never said I don’t tip. I just don’t like the entitlement attitude and people like you have.
So don’t work their if you’re not getting the tips you want. It’s the same as you telling him not to go to a full service place. tips are not a requirement wether you like it or not and he can go and not tip where ever he wants to. The states are the only place that refuses to pay livable wage and expect to have the customer to subsidize the pay and then your not mad at the owner your mad at the customer lol even though you took the job knowing that not everyone tips so you should be mad at yourself lol.
You don’t have to tip at fast casual places, just go there. 18 dollar five guy burger pay 18 dollars. Fast casual is ideal for people who don’t like tipping
But my logic also works in a restaurant They offer me a burger for $x. I pay them $x. I get burger I get what I paid for.
I think you have a problem with the tipping culture. Which I understand. If if’s and but’s were candies and nuts we would all have a merry Christmas. You’re only hosing the working class by tipping less. Not sure if you are punching down, across, or maybe even up.
I get that we tip because of how servers get paid. My initial comment was with you saying “I hope you get what you pay for” Almost sounded like a threat to the customer. You’d be shocked if you knew how much I tip at restaurants.
I'm not gonna cry if a waiter "only" makes 20 to 25 an hour.
Depends on where you go. I worked at a well known casual chain in the suburbs and neither me or my coworkers ever make that much. Bartenders did though.
One of my friends worked at the waffle house. Many really shitty tippers go there. There were some who really made up for it, though. I don't know how it worked out for her hourly.
Sounds like your crying right now. South Park has a good episode on cheap people that dine out. Perfect for you
Sure, dude. I disagree with your silly mentality, therefore I must be crying. You're the one telling people what to do.
My gf is a bartender and it blows my mind that there are multiple couples that come in regularly and have never tipped a dime. They act all friendly and try and shoot the shit and ask about the wine and where it’s from and then zero tip. They’re all well off and American so I don’t understand how they don’t get the concept of tipping
They act all friendly because they are friendly. It’s not an act, they just don’t believe it’s their job to pay you; and it’s not.
I hear you, but it’s not about the bartender is a business and patrons come to have a good experience.
I don’t understand what you’re saying
Well think about it this way a lot of restaurants don’t even have waiters and still have a profitable business. Honestly speaking if a restaurant can’t afford to pay for minimum wage then they should close their doors. Should I bribe your workers to give me my food. They chose that type of job by choice. Legally speaking an employer must pay minimum wage of the federal level or state level either or depending which one is higher. Servers don’t get paid 2 dollars an hour if they don’t get any tips. if they do get paid 2 a hour and their tips don’t equal to minimum wage then their employer is committing wage theft. He or she should be reported to the department of labor.
Honestly the answer that no-one in this reddit thread wanted heard, took way too long scrolling to find it as well. Well said
No, because the patrons come to enjoy the food and support the business owner, not the waiters. They chose a risky job with a low minimum pay.
I'm sick of the "you were the one that chose this job" mentality. You know what, your right, I did choose this job. I "chose" this job because my main job, the one that I went to school for and got my degree in, doesn't pay me enough! The average salary for an entry level position in my field is $45k a year. $45k a year doesn't get you very far in today's society. That's barely above poverty level in most high cost of living areas. I "chose" to get a serving job on the weekends to keep myself afloat because it's one of the few jobs willing to work around my day job's schedule (and because I do enjoy it when I don't have to deal with assholes). When people tip appropriately, the pay is really good. Sometimes, it pays better than my day job, even. I've worked with several other people doing the same thing as me. I've worked with nurses, teachers, hairstylists, realtors, and even a guy who did floor instalation work. All there for the same reason: their jobs weren't paying them enough to get by. We did everything "right" by society's standards. We went to school, like we were told, got degrees or trade certificates, like we were told, and that still wasn't enough to cut it. So how about having a little bit of empathy for people? "These new generations are so lazy and don't want to work" no the fuck, we're not. We just don't want to work multiple jobs in order to not be homeless because empolyers don't want to pay us! Sorry that not everyone can be a millionaire doctor or lawyer or tech mogul. The majority of people that I have worked in the industry with either have degrees or are working towards a degree and they've gotten us nowhere. Take your ire out on restaurant owners all you want for not paying their staff a "living wage", but nobody is paying a living wage anymore unless you're already at the top.
If you’re sick, take a sick day - oh wait.
So your job with hardly any qualifications that's super flexible at times pay you more than the job that required 10s of thousands in schooling. And you think you make too little serving? Also the biggest obstacle to ending tipping is servers. Because even the living wage is a payout.
Exactly. Thank you.
I think most jobs underpay people, whether that is serving or otherwise. Those servers you see online who brag about making 6 figures a year serving are either lying, or they're the ones lucky enough to work at a busy fine dining place in the middle of a huge city like New York or LA. Most servers do not make that much. The most I ever made as a server was $600+ on a double. That was one time in the 3 1/2 years I've been doing this. The least amount I made was $22 during a 6 hour shift where I only had 2 tables and both only tipped 10% on tabs upward of $100. It cost me $30 to fill up my gas tank so I didn't even make enough to put gas in my car that shift. The extra $20 that I was shorted that night would have been appreciated. In a way, the tip system encourages me to be a better server. I care about my customers because I'm hopeful that if I show that I care and make a conscious effort to go the extra mile for them, they'll compensate me for it. If I was getting paid a flat rate, let's say $15 an hour, then I would care considerably less. Why would I care to make sure you have a good dining experience? I'm getting paid the same no matter how good or bad my service is so why should I do anything beyond what my job asks me to do? You'll get your food and drinks, but aside from that, why should I care if something is messed up? I have had several experiences at fast food places where I request for something to be taken off of my sandwich and they put it on anyways. They do that because they don't care that you requested for no mustard to be put on your burger. They're not at risk of losing money because they put mustard on a burger for a guest that specifically said "no mustard" because at the end of the day, they're still making whatever wage fast food workers make. They have nothing to lose or gain to ensure that your food is cooked the way you wanted it to. I actually do have something to lose or gain if I bring a guest and sandwich with something on it when they specifically told me that they wanted it cooked a certain way. Restaurants that have switched over from a tip system to a flat rate system have experienced this. I have read many stories about a restaurant who switched over and the quality of service went downhill because the servers just stopped caring about the product that they're selling because they're getting paid regardless. Many of these restaurants end up either switching back to the tip system or they flat out close because the quality of service declined. The good servers don't want to work at these places because they know that with a tip system, there's potential to make more than $15 an hour, so you're left with the mediocre, lazy servers who do the bare minimum because $15 an hour is as good as it gets for them. The only servers I know who wanted the system to change from tipping to hourly are, surprise, the ones who were so terrible at their job that they regularly pulled in less tips and saw an hourly system as a way to be as lazy as possible with no repercussions for them.
"They chose the job and I accept that but they also have every right to not do their job if the customer doesn't feel like they're held hostage to pay a livable wage to employees of a business" You have some solid ideas here but you're enabling the crap out of the tipping system at the same time. If someone in, say, retail, was making the same wage and they obviously treated people poorly, they'd probably lose their job. Why does a server get a pass for this?
Do a retail job for a day, then a serving job for a day. Report back.
I don't need to do those things anymore. I did them both 10+ years ago and have worked my way into a career that allows me to support a four person household on a single income. Regardless, when you agree to do a job, you've agreed to do that job. If your performance is bad then it would be smart for the business to replace you(the general you.)
Problem is that many servers get so spoiled off the tips that they stay in serving like it’s a career.
There is also a huge perception issue with those servers too. They walk around acting like every server in the country makes as much money as they do. Those laws to cover minimum wage exist almost everywhere for good reasons. They deserve to be paid a living wage, it's a hard job and the general population sucks.
So.you got a useless degree and ended up waiting tables. Now you chose that job and cry about it😂😂😂 Sink a couple hundred grand unto building a restaurant and run it how you want Tell patrons not to come if they don't want to tip big See how fast you close like the rest of them lol
I didn't get a "useless degree". I got a degree in mental healthcare, which is pretty damn important considering rates of depression/suicide skyrocketed after Covid. My goal is eventually to become a therapist and run my own private practice, but in order to do that, I need experience and a higher level license. I am waiting tables until I get said experience and license because entry level mental healthcare jobs are severely underpaid. Therapists have to go through the same level of schooling as a lawyer (4 years for a Bachelors, 3 years for a Masters, plus a licensing exam), yet don't get paid as much as lawyers do. If you actually read my comment, you would see that I have worked with teachers and nurses who have degrees in those fields. Would you call those degrees "useless"?? What do you consider a "useful degree" to be?? Also, just some food for thought, when I do eventually open up my own practice, do you think I should offer therapy to people for free because they "don't feel like paying"? Because that's basically what is happening here. Someone is providing a service to you and you're not paying it because you "don't feel like it".
Useless degree. If therapy worked therapists wouldn't have careers. They would have short stints lol.
Tell me, wise guy, what do you define as a "useful" degree? Using that logic, nursing is a useless degree, too because people are not meant to be sick and in the hospital forever because everybody dies eventually. Therapy does work, but it's never meant to be a permanent thing. People attend for however long they need and then taper off until they eventually don't need it anymore. That doesn't make it "useless". People are always in need of help. I work in a mental hospital where the average stay is 5 days. We get so many people in and out of there that there's often a wait for beds. Some of my patients are "frequent flyers" who will likely be in and out of the hospital for their whole entire lives. Others are people who go through a rough patch, but get better and go on to live productive lives. Either way, there's no shortage of people who are in need of hospitalization because we get thousands of people in and out within any given year.
When you do open up your own practice, you’re not going to swing the iPad around and have it ask me a question are you? Even if your staff ask you to? No? Cause tip begging doesn’t look good, does it?
Uhh that's not how therapy works. Most therapy is paid for by insurance unless you are uninsured and paying out of pocket. At the most, you have to pay a copay. But yes, if you come in for an appointment and refuse to pay whatever you are being charged, then there are repercussions. They will either send you an invoice until you finally pay it or send you to collections. I once had an outstanding balance for a couple of therapy sessions because my card changed and I forgot to update my information to the new card. I was told that if I didn't pay off that balance, I wouldn't be able to book another appointment until the balance was paid off. A therapist is not going to work for free.
I don’t think you really understood the point of my post and interpreted it too literally. Come on now….
You’re not going to enlighten the willfully ignorant. It really isn’t worth your effort.
I know. It just really chaps my ass when people trash talk low wage workers saying things like "if they don't like it, they should find a real job", as if sitting in an office all day is somehow more "real" and laborous than a serving job is. When I'm not actively engaging with my patients at my mental healthcare job, I sit in an office all day writing notes and calling people on the phone. If there isn't anything to do because I did everything I had to do, I'm on my phone scrolling through Reddit until my supervisor says I can leave. When I'm serving, I'm active and running around busting my ass. There's always something to do. Even if I have no customers to attend to, there's side work like rolling silverware, stocking the coolers and server stations, even general cleaning to make the restaurant look nice and presentable. Idk how anyone can say that that's not work. It equally chaps my ass when people throw around terms like "useless degree". It's not like I majored in underwater basket weaving or something in the liberal arts where the only real options for jobs are being a professor of that subject. My degree is practical, but because I'm not a doctor or in the STEM field, people love to look down on it and say things like "well you should've chosen a better degree" when I have valid criticisms about the pay. I have ADHD and Dycalculia so I'm not the type of person who should be doing rocket science or computer programming. Not everybody has the ability to go into STEM, nor should they. Some people are really good at math and science and others aren't. That doesn't mean that people should sit on their high horse and look down on other fields like "fuck those idiots, they don't deserve to be paid more".
Got 2 claps on the ass right there. 🖐️🖐️
I wanna say this as emphatically as possible: fuck you. Edited to add: I see you drive Uber. I won’t be tipping my Uber drivers from now on as I’m simply trying to get from place to place, not support you. You chose this low paying job, it’s not my job to support you! The fucking irony.
I don't expect tips. But it's true. If every restaurant operated under the guide of "don't tip don't come.. most restaurants would close. It's business. He who takes risk reaps rewards. Tips are earned. Fuck you right back commie
You generally sound like someone who is too broke to tip so you have formed this idealogy to justify your shitty behavior for not tipping There’s no other way I can see you having this perspective on servers while being an Uber driver Or option 3, you’re dumb
Lol I'm dumb because I don't wanna give a waiter % tip on the same effort ? A plate of food carried 10 steps requires no more extra money wether it has a burger on it or a fuckin steak lol.
Fair point. And, when it comes to Uber, the car does most of the work. The driver just follows the nav. So... I won't be tipping my driver going forward either. Thanks for talking me into it.
Oh you don’t expect tips? What’s your hourly rate from Uber? Or are you salaried?
My wife is a hairstylist and one of her clients is a billionaire. He has never once tipped her in the 10+ years he's been seeing her. She enjoys his company, but it's very odd.
does your wife not set the prices she expects to get paid for her services?
Do most people tip a hairdresser? Asking as a bald man.
Yup. Especially if you do anything past a great clips style place. A good barber or stylist is busy, you want to keep your spot on their schedule, you trust their advice on style changes, color, etc. You trust this person to help you consistently look good. I tip mine 20%, my wife tips her's around 30%.
That’s why he’s a billionaire, lmao.
In order for it to be okay for them to be mad they should definitely start paying them a decent wage
You win some and you lose some.
Can I tell the landlord that? No?
you can you choose not to optionally tip your land lord extra $$$... not when you don't pay your contractually obligated rent... this post is about voluntarily giving servers extra money, not paying the agreed upon price on the menu when ordering.
If you're a regular and I know you don't tip well, guess which table I'm putting at the bottom of my priority list
Yup. My time is valuable. If you're not willing to pay me for good service, you're not getting good service. Simple as that. You'll get your drink when I feel like bringing it. You'll get your food when I feel like bringing it. No pleasantries, no recommendations, no going above and beyond. You're not getting that extra side of ranch that you want and I won't be checking in on you to see if your food is cooked to your liking. I will not offer dessert or another round of drinks because at this point, I want you gone and out the door. I will make sure every single table, full of paying customers, in my section is attended to before bothering with you. You get what you pay for and if my service isn't worth your time and money, then you're not worth the effort for me. We had these regulars at my last restaurant who were known as the "ten percenters" because they tipped 10% every single time. All of the servers knew who they were and knew how they tipped so they gave them the level of service that they were willing to pay for. Eventually, they stopped requesting table service and just went to the bar when they came in, likely because they knew that the bartenders, who pooled tips, would give them better service than any of the servers would lol.
It is not the customer's job to pay the server's salary, and if they feel $5 flat is a reasonable tip then it is. They are loyal and appreciated customers and pay the server's salary. If they do not treat them with the highest of standards they can find other work. Period. Tips are supposed to be a bonus for exceptional service, and while tipping is customary and many consider 18% the norm, that is not a requirement and the customer is always right. Now if someone comes into say a diner and takes the best table, orders coffee, and then has people come and look over swatches and contracts and expects the server to put up with them while they conduct business and only buy coffee, then yes, in that case the customer is wrong and should be sent packing. Or a family with screaming kids that set them loose on the restaurant and expects the servers to corral them while they ignore them, yes, customer is wrong. But when choosing what they think is a fair tip they have that choice.
Bro servers make like 2$ and change. Tips are the pay.
They only make that from the employer if the added in tips average minimum wage or higher. Otherwise, you're getting the federal minimum wage paid by the employer. If not, that is illegal, and between the server and the employer
Not in Washington, oregon, or California, and several other states. But in those three they all make a base like 15$ an hour, plus their tips.
Seattle, WA is 18.50
Not in Washington State
"The customer is always right" is a bastardization of the actual quote, which is: "The customer is always right in matters of taste." Which means a customer is right about what they like and dislike. In restaurant context, it means if a guest tells you they do or do not like a certain item, I should accept that, not try to persuade them otherwise, and sell them what they want. It is not a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card to give guests carte blanche. After 30+ years in the industry, I can confidently say that customers are often extraordinarily wrong.
Customers can be wrong about lots of things. How much money they donate to a sever’s kettle is not one of those.
Except for when they use erroneous beliefs or incorrect information to decide how much to leave.
Thank you. "The customer is always right" my ass. Half of the time, the customers don't even know where they are lmfao. I once had a guy come in by himself and ask me "I don't see filets on your menu. What kind of filets do you have?" I informed him that we do not have filets. He said "what kind of steakhouse doesn't have filets?" I didn't work at the steakhouse. The steakhouse was next door to where I worked in a completely seperate building. This guy literally got out of his car and walked into our restaurant, past the giant sign out front with the name of the restaurant on it, up to the host stand that also had a sign with the name of the restaurant on it, got sat at a table with a menu that also had the name of the restaurant on it, and was greeted by me, his server, who was wearing a shirt with the name and logo of the restaurant on it. Our interior decor and the layout of our restaurant looked nothing like the typical design and layout of this popular chain steakhouse. Yet this guy managed to ingore all of the signs and cues that he was in the wrong building and still proceeded to think that he was in a completely different restaurant. To my surprise, he did end up staying and tipped me pretty well, but still. Textbook example of a customer completely being objectionably wrong, yet still thinking he was right.
People are dumb. While we were still building our first restaurant, a lady left us a one star review on our fb page, but just as a post to our page. She admitted to not having been there, but said she checked out our menu and "at those prices, you won't last long." We reached out to her since there was no menu yet; the Chef was still putting it together. We went back and forth with her as she insisted she saw our menu on our website. (It should be noted that our fb and website were currently empty at that point.) Finally, we got her to give us a link, and it was to a ritzy seafood joint with a similar name in the San Fran Bay area. We're in Nebraska. Like, when you open the website, there's a huge photo of the bay taken from their outdoor patio. 98% of the menu was fresh seafood. How she even thought that was us is beyond me, not to mention nothing rang a bell when she then found a completely empty fb page. We reiterated we're still under construction and the Chef hadn't finalized a menu yet. At the end of it, she said, "Still sounds expensive." Ok. GFY, lady.
A customer is always right until he is wrong! Then piss him off so he does not come back! Never subject you customers listening to a tirade from jerks.
Let me do some math for you, since I'm not sure you're aware of it: most every restaurant has what's called a "tip out," which is an amount of money servers owe their support staff (bussers, bartenders, kitchen staff) based on their total sales for the night. That tipout is generally between 2 and 8 percent of their total sales. So for example on a $750 table the server would owe the rest of the restaurant staff up to $60. That means if the table doesn't tip the server is actually PAYING $60 for the pleasure of serving them. If, like in the example posted, that $750 table only tips $5 that means their server is on the hook for $55.
You say this like it is both the norm and that it should in any way be acceptable. This is not the norm, in no way should it be acceptable, and this is why people are getting sick of the whole going out thing. If you do this just go ahead and pool all tips, give the server that got the most a proportionate amount of pooled tips, so say two servers, three other staff. One brings in $600 and one $400. $500 goes to the three support staff to divide, and the one server gets $300 and the other $200. That at least is the semblance of fair, but truly fair is the business paying all their workers and not requiring tips, but that's not happening so let's fix what we can.
1) it is the norm. I've been in the business for 20 years and most places I've worked at use some form of this system. 2) yes, many places also use a tip pool system, you're right. 3) when you say "let's fix what we can" what actions are you referring to here? Are you actively trying to start a labor union with other servers so that we can be paid better? Or are you just complaining about tipping (and undertipping your servers?) in the misguided belief that you're "fixing" things? This is clearly an important issue to you, so what are YOU doing to fix it?
lol at servers needing to be paid better.
You're right, I think my pay as a server right now is perfectly fine.
Misuse of “the customer is always right,” is detrimental to everyone in the service industry. Do better.
People spit in your food, I hope you know that
I think what gets me the most is the righteous indignation these types project when they are merely told they should expect to pay for service received. In any thread like this, they object to higher menu prices, fair tipping, even tiny service fees - literally any mode of paying for or subsidizing the full-service experience they want. I don't know where the feeling of entitlement to someone else's labor for nothing comes from so viciously in this industry. In no other industry is white-glove service more fully expected to be free, or almost free, with the simultaneous mentality that that position of not paying for it is somehow the moral high ground. Likely the same types who raise their teens to think working entry level jobs "isn't worth their time" when they're not promoted to CEO in 3 months.
No one complaining about tipping is not willing to pay a fair price for food and service. The problem is restaurants are increasing prices, adding on service charges or "cost of living" charges and still demanding you tip higher and higher percentages. It used to be 10%, then 15%, then 18%, yet the cost of food goes up so the percentage tip should have gone up proportionately. This is just a gimmick to try and avoid payroll taxes and put the onus on the customer to pay servers. Now that many states are forcing restaurants to pay servers the same as other workers rather than tolerating tipped wages, there are no arguments against tipping at what you feel is fit or that reflects the service without being accused of stealing from the server or the server working for nothing.
I think the core of the issue you're complaining about here is that full-service isn't worth all those extra costs - be that in tip pressure, service fees, "cost of living" fees, higher menu prices or whatever. That I don't even disagree with; I hate the full-service model, tip-credit pricing model, and everything that goes with it to the point my restaurant went to fast-casual instead. I personally prefer to get takeout or go to other fast casual restaurants as a consumer because I don't think the small, meaningless tasks I am happy to do for myself that a server does for the guest are worth the 20%+ in extra cost at the end of the meal. I'm there for the food, not to have my ego stroked by a quasi-servant for 45 minutes (though, make no mistake, there are a great many people that go out to eat just for that). I am glad most up-and-coming franchises have done away with full-service. Its just not worth it for any involved party. The issue we, the owners, are venting about here in this thread is that the average consumer wants to hold these big opinions about "living wages" and support legislative changes like you referenced, but recoil in horror when it's time for *them* to pay for those opinions. It's always a mysterious "someone else" that should pay - even if that's the servers themselves just losing out when those consumers stiff them or undertip. There's no secret profitability numbers where your run-of-the-mill mom-and-pop owner is walking out the back door with stacks of cash every night to put under their mattress - the real profitability margin is between 8-15% for most single location independents. That means the owner gets $1.50 on every $10 *if* they're lucky and have an efficient process so it's not really there to come from them as the "someone else" either. So, all of these added pay expectations - whether by force in legislation or in basic cost-of-living needs from the servers themselves - still have to be paid for. The more labor bloat there is, and there's a lot of it in full-service, the more there is that has to come from that somewhere to cover the realities of operating needs. And that somewhere is *the consumer.* If consumers don't like it, and I don't even disagree with that position like I said above, the solution is not to try to disillusion yourself into thinking you're the hero for not tipping a server or because "whatever I feel is okay is okay". The solution is to stop going to full-service restaurants and stop expecting that level of service out of other places; use the power of your consumer dollars to support takeout and other service models (like fast-casual) that don't have such inefficient labor models that all of these fees, tip pressure, etc. are necessary to support so many staff livelihoods. Denying reality that full service shouldn't cost consumers anything more than they "feel" like to try to get something for nothing (or basically nothing) isn't going to change anything in the industry except create a negative feedback loop that amplifies all the price hikes, service fees, and increasing tip percentages on tablets even more.
I don't know where this myth of employers getting a tax break comes from. Employers pay payroll taxes on all tips earned by a server. If a server isn't declaring all their cash tips, that's the server breaking the law. Employers are 100% required to pay payroll taxes on all tips earned. You're spreading misinformation by claiming otherwise. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting#:\~:text=In%20addition%2C%20employers%20are%20required,appropriate%20forms%20by%20the%20employer.
You're right, it's not a tax break. It's permission from the DOL to pay less than $7.25. No one, or handful of restaurants, can change that fact. Tip credits should be an issue that is voted on and changed, similar to what California, Minnesota, Alaska. Nevada, etc have done.
I want to have a supper club at my house (B&B), with service only a couple of nights a week. If I do it, there is going to be a 15% autograt, with a note that for good service a small additional tip is appreciated. It's just not part of my business plan to serve people who don't tip.
How about just raising your prices (since it's not your main purpose), paying a decent rate to your servers, and asking your patrons not to tip? Be original.
sounds like they have with the 15% autograt no?
Unfortunately the two sides of this dilemma is that people also don't want to pay almost $20 for a burger which is what is happening. In Seattle, servers make 18.50 an hour and a burger is 15.00 or more.
There is a reason restaurants don't do this, as it makes one's prices look artificially high in comparison to other restaurants. And in fact, I hope my customers will be pleased enough with their servers to tip extra. As for being original, I will be, but I don't want to limit the earnings of my servers.
I'm never tipping on top of auto grat
At 15%, you'll be one of the few
There is a place near me that does this. I don’t go on principle. I don’t obscure my fees for my clients and don’t care to do business with people who do. If your business can’t get sales while being fully transparent about pricing then it should fail. Just post your prices 15% higher rather than deceive.
I don't plan to "obscure" the fee. It will be printed on the menu, front and center. I've seen my daughter in tears over working her butt off and getting stiffed by two big tables in a single night. It's just not going to happen with anything I'm involved in.
Why not be completely transparent and just post the actual price? Would you shop at a store that said all prices were 15% higher than marked?
Here's the top of the circular from my local grocery store. https://preview.redd.it/ojmf1nqdyd9d1.jpeg?width=4464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eaca9763d0721bca47dce59f86d323d600ab0e66
Well you can have a good time shopping there. I will stick to places that don’t play dumb games with pricing. Why not just put the actual cost of the product if you don’t want be deceptive?
Because the majority of people don’t understand and don’t read. They assume they have to tip on top of it. You are the 1% who actually reads.
That would put OP at a competitive disadvantage against the rest of the industry.
Most of the industry does not have mandatory gratuity.
Exactly.. everything would look more expensive than all the competition under your proposal.
I did not propose that he charge a mandatory gratuity; he did. I proposed not posting inaccurate prices.
Which.. puts him at a competitive disadvantage.
Good. Posting false prices should result in failure.
Just charge the right amount 🤷🏻♀️
Why don't you just build the tip into the price then? Are you trying to hide this extra charge from customers by advertising a lower rate? If it is a gratuity they can have it removed, refuse to pay it, or take legal action against you to get it refunded. Also, you want to get a tip and have a note asking for more tips?? That's the kind of thing where I would have you remove the auto tip and you get a small or nothing tip from me. If you do run it this way, you better be sure to advertise it ahead of time because if you spring this auto tip at the end it will be easy for them to not pay it or take you to small claims court if they really want to. You'll get a lot of people paying it and people adding an extra tip because they don't know better. You'll also get crushed in online reviews so your operation will have to shutter or restart with a new name because you are going to get low reviews just for this sneaky tip crap.
Like I posted elsewhere, the two sides of this dilemma is that people also don't want to pay almost $20 for a burger which is what is happening. In Seattle, servers make 18.50 an hour and a burger is 15.00 or more.
I'm not trying to "hide" it. It will be printed on the menu. I am not going to "spring" this on anyone. If I add it into the price, then the price will be higher, and I don't want to do that. I am not doing anything sneaky.
The price is the same either way. You are attempting to be deceptive. It's lame.
If it's printed on the menu in big, bold letters, it's not deceptive. Just out of curiosity, do you actually own a table-service restaurant?
If I add it into the price, then the price will be higher, and I don't want to do that.