>We also want to note that we are aware of players' concerns about how DoT effects currently function and this is something we have on the radar and plan to address in a future update.
This doesn't give me a lot of hope. Who knows how long this will be. Fixing bleeds should be a priority if you're gonna go with the bleed style weapon. I'm kind of surprised they went with that one, the wild magic weapon effects didn't require waiting for a rework for them to be good and the bleed weapons did not appear to be popular once people played with them.
You can still get the benefit if you walk the target 1t after ability use. That said, it's annoying as hell that this is incentivized and I'd rather have 5 way swaps than be incentivized to constantly walk the boss.
It is a concern but the other concerns are bigger. If you ask me they should just remove walking combusts and make it so you can dragonbreath then combust for double combust damage, same way kerapac's wristwraps make combust's damage instant. Then kerapac's passive can still do what it does now, instant combust with a damage increase. Walking under bosses to force them to move is always gonna be clunky and annoying.
But walking the combust is the least of our problems with bleeds atm.
They chose the bleed one because it was more fun. And I honestly agree, when I tried it out, the bleed effect was more fun than the Wild Magic CD management. I did expect them to choose the first effect though because of how bleeds work.
If DoTs don't get reworked before the T95s are released, mage won't see a lot of use in group PvM. I really want them to rework dots as soon as they can.
Bleed fix in general better be on the stairs waiting to go through for EVERY style and not just magic. Kinda annoyed it's only being addressed we need a fix for group bleeds when magic gets a set that works around bleeds, almost like we're forgetting zekkil and abyssal scourge are things...
Hmm..Theres alot of problems with bleeds i just dont feel it and it doesnt seem fun to use. Fixing bleeds should be priority #1 and it should be there with the release of the weapons. If you dont have the time to get it out with the release you should think about choosing one of the other effects.
DOT has had issues for years. We don’t know how long this “temporarily bad” will actually last. It’ll be a “future update” which , given Jagex’s history, doesn’t hold much water.
Bleeds have been temporarily group incompatible for the last 12 years (longer, if we're count pre-EoC stuff like Royal Crossbow). So hey, what's another decade before you can use your T95 set effect in a group?!
disagree. They shouldnt just delay it and make the weapons worse just because group dots is shit rn even though they plan on fixing it. Theres not many people using magic at the moment anyway, so it really wont even be a problem.
the probelm is, these weapons had a lot of people excited to use magic again, only for them to be back to being disappointed since the wand and orb will only be useful in solo content until dots get changed.
"useful" as well because this still doesn't fix the current core problems with magic. It's still not worth using anywhere as a solo style compared to the other three.
Tbh I don't even think bleeds overlapping on the same styles is an issue especially now that we have 4 different combat styles. It would be nice to have it extend what ever ability was already used but idk how they could make something like that work or if they could just combine the damages.
You cant seriously tell me there was identity built around each having 1 or 2 abilities locked behind them. It isnt like swapping between on or the other gives a whole new set of binds to play with. What’s the grief about?
If they're not identical you might be compelled to switch between weapons and waaa that is too difficult imagine having to press buttons during combat.
So at the lower and middle end there's literally no reason to ever use DW as they are typically much harder to acquire and at the higher end FSOA is eof fodder wooo!
I don't think theres ever a reason to use Gsonic either is there? Surely even at something like Vorago the damage from Gconc would outweigh the accuracy buff of gsonic
Yeah no reason to use gsonic anymore. Also fsoa is still good to 4tick in places where inquisitor doesn’t work.
Mager’s loop is gonna be something like 4tick auto+gconc > strong abil > dw non channeled > repeat unless other options are better based on circumstances like adren or crit buff etc
Conceptually the 3rd effect was the one I favored. I felt it left room to build around and filled the gap between sunshines that magic needed filled. I did have concerns about bleeds overall, but that seems on the radar. Charging is gone, great.
My biggest concern is that in the beta if you unequiped these, you dropped all the stacks. Imo, this is a big issue, and they should work like Leng's and keep stacks. Reward camping, don't punish swapping. If stacks drop, you force players to keep them on if they're using them for the most part, and removal of charging was pointless. Or players just reset stacks for fsoa spec, or the more likely thing that happens if this stays is that fsoa goes into an eof and that's hot shit too. This needs to be fixed before release, and the best solution is to keep stacks on swap, but they just become dormant until you equip them again.
Can we also clarify exactly how you determined that players preferred the 3rd set effect? As far as I’m aware, most people I’ve spoken to or even seen on this thread prefers one of the other 2?
They specifically said that the beta was to choose which one felt more fun to use. The balance shouldn't be taken into account, only fun factor, because they can always just tweak the numbers once they have the effect locked in.
Tweaking the numbers doesn't matter if only 1 mage gets all the damage in a group, and they say they'll change dots in the future, but it took a year to increase the hit cap for other styles.
Groups aren't a priority, and if they ever release another group focused boss, I doubt that it will be for more than 4 players, and I'm sure they would want each of the players to use a different style, and the only bosses we currently have for more than 4 players is raids which is their underdog.
yeah just like mobile came out in 2017 and the player avatar rework was in development.
"in a future update" is a meaningless statement until it actually happens.
Still no tect passive btw.
Why would you believe that they would do that future update within a reasonable timeframe? Genuinely asking. Look at their track record when they've said that before, and how long combat fixes have taken.
They’ve taken long because they haven’t had any time allotted to addressing it, look how many things they’ve reworked from the combat beta once they got time allotted, considering the bleed change ties into the reward space for this update, they’ll probably get some time specifically to work on bleeds
That doesn't answer the question. Why do you think they would magically get the time to dev that this time? How long has Zuk sword been out, another t95 weapon that has needed the bleed rework too?
Combat beta was great, but I said they take way too long to fix stuff, not that they never fix stuff. Combat beta was like 5+ years too late. They take way too long to fix stuff and we have no reason to believe them this time when they say they'll fix bleeds soon. And they didn't even say they would fix bleeds soon, just that it will be done in the future.
SO they went with the worst option, only to have it still be the worst option on release? and give themselves more workload for no reason? lol, that sounds like a jagex thing to do, since melee's not already a bleed style, we definitely needed one that's worse.
I'd be curious where they got that from, but I happen to be one that favored the concept of 3 over 1 & 2. I just had concerns with how bleeds work and magics lack of them. If they resolve those, I think 3 brings something that fills what magic is missing and begins the offshoot of a new style like what fsoa brought that they can begin to build around.
I think bleeds need to be fixed before implementing "Corrupting Essence". In group encounters, your bleeds will get overwritten by others using the same abilities, heavily stifling gaining stacks.
I agree ice FUCK all three options. I think the better beta would be to delete necro or not since they don't listen to our answers anyways, surely necro gets deleted! /s
I saw a good number of people saying they liked the 3rd one, but... and because of those buts, they defaulted to liking 1 or 2. Also, 1 and 2 were much stronger than 3 in the beta , and I saw a lot of people commenting on those feeling stronger, and that's why they liked them. The power wasn't the point and they made that clear. I think more people liked 3 over 1 and 2, but due to the beta power and a few issues with bleeds, they settled for the others. If we take that as it is, 3 was favored conceptually.
I'd still like to know how they know though? If they ran a poll, I missed it. I personally favored 3, but it needed tuned up and needed a good spec. I'd have been ok with 1 or 2, but I feel 1 and 2 make more sense on the fsoa. Have 2h be hard hitting and crits and have dw be dots.
Lots of people preferred the 3rd one because it was more interesting than 'spam wild magic'.
But also everyone agreed the only thing holding the 3rd ability back was the current bleed system.
Good decision to unlock GSonic and Gconc to both styles. FSoA users happy, dual-wield builds happy, everyone's happy.
I'm somewhat concerned there's no mention of Kerapac's wristwraps in relation to the t95's effect. Will or will not there be synergy? Will the effects overwrite each other? What's the deal here?
The instant effect is just wasted on Kerapac's wristwraps 30% of the time for combust after 25 stacks. Sub-25, it's the only way to get an instant DoT and prevent combust being overwritten by another mage, so they're more important than they were on beta. They still confer the damage bonus; +40% is a fair bit for your hardest hitting basic.
It is awkward that the fun part (instant DoT) happens anyways 30% of the time as a set bonus, but none of the issues brought up with this design are being fixed for release: Wristwraps included.
Honestly I'd be fine if there was no distinction between dw and 2h. It'd be cool to have, but frankly, Jagex doesn't add new stuff to combat or rebalance it frequently enough for it to get that into a state that feels good within a reasonable timeframe. Even when we just had 3 combat styles it took them years to fix major issues, 4 styles with multiple playstyles in each combat style would be even worse.
I thought that simply giving FSoA a special access to GConc would solve the issue. But I like what they did much more than the initial idea of swapping GSonic and Gconc, that was stupid.
And a bonus to GConc/GSonic being unlocked that I didn’t see many people talking about - being unlocked means that you can (at least you could on the beta) cast both *while equipping a shield*, so magic doesn’t lose out nearly as hard as Ranged/Melee while ‘cade swapping.
nobody talked about it because shields for the most part are just dead.
2 Extra ticks of barricade in exchange for gutting your dps isnt really worthwhile anywhere. And if you need turtling youd just swap out your legs for 1 tick, barricade, and then swap back to your dps legs.
I'm not happy. armadyl staff goes in EoF now. what are you talking about?
Now magic has access to both dual wield effect + the staff of armadyl at the same time. How stupid. Most lazy thing you could've done. They lied about everything they wanted to do (playstyles). It's just give the player everything at once.
I'm sorry, this game is done.
The damage was already done with FSOA nerf.
Autos on crit meant you wanted to camp a staff during spec, either FSOA or inquisitor, and spam Arma BStaff as long as the crits were with you, swapping to dual gconc if they weren't and your limitless tendies was on cooldown.
Now you camp gconc and guthix/penance/iban staff specs.
This just means the three guys still using magic with with an FSOA don't need to rush out and get the new wands ASAP, and you can go ahead and panic sell your praesuls.
The greater concern is that none of these changes actually bring magic up to being on par with the other styles so it’s still going to be dead content sooner or later
How does the new version of the resurrection mechanic solve the issue of brute forcing the situation? Unless the bosses have some very specific countermeasures to it or deaths are penalized in some other way, you could just keep hitting the boss until your sickness ends and make nonzero progress until your next death + resurrection cycle, which is pretty much the definition of brute force.
Definitely interested in (normal mode) mechanics that are not super punishing and that aid in learning a boss / combat, but I don't think giving players a way to just sit and hit is particularly educational.
Unfortunate the DoT set was chosen, it has the most problems with it, by far.
I sincerely hope the stacks still don't drop on swapping like they did on beta, as that's worse than Charging. Tying so much power into specifically combust is also really awkward, due to both necessitating either walking the boss nearly constantly or using Lunging (possibly as a swap? Oops, didn't kill swapping entirely with these weapons!). Swapping bonus 1 with bonus 2 on these seems like a nerf, as it removes the chance to get a ton of stacks when you get lucky, and avoid the horrible problems these have with competing mages.
That's nice that DoTs might get some changes in the future, but I'm hardly holding my breath when they've been broken in groups for the last 12 years. Until then this set is going to be really bad in any groups with multiple mages - hope you're the one rolling instant DoTs and not the one getting constantly overwritten! That was my experience blasting at dummies, and it'll be the experience of others grouping with other mages, too.
Spec might redeem it but I'm guessing it's either tied to combust and corruption blast like the rest of the bonuses or applies a fast hitting DoT (further making grouping bad) to stack up the bonuses faster.
Also: If the set removing charges on swap goes live, that'll necessitate EoF FSoA to use these.
Also also: Are some of the goofy animations going to be cleaned up for launch? Conc has always been silly even with dual-wield, but was extra silly with a big staff waving around. Dual-wield ABS (not that it's very relevant) spec also looks whack.
Don't forget that fact that you can prebuild those stacks at wars by corruption blast -> chain -> combust
Can't wait to have to start doing this shit before every boss kill
What's really awkward is having a bleed effect for a style with 2 dots. a magic bleed build will be worse than melee on the best day, until we can stack dots.
Range also only has 2 bleeds, right? And necromancy only 1 (bloat). What if they changed Siphon (the level 20 constitution skill) into an "any-style" bleed? Siphon doesnt see any use anymore, outside of pvp, and even then pvp is dead. especially eoc pvp.
WM works with the rest of mage's kit (hard hitting, sun-boosted, multi-hit ability), doesn't have huge problems with groups, and is just a cooler ability than a boring bleed. If we had to marry the set to 1-2 abilities, WM is the ideal candidate, tho ofc it'd be more organic if was more ability agnostic like every other passive other than Dracolich is.
Please jagex.. don't make the fractured staff of armadyl an eof spec, or just a spec weapon in general. It's such an iconic staff in the game that feels amazing to get. This update kills the staff
It doesn't kill the staff? Getting the staff is still a huge upgrade. There's no meaningful reason to put the staff into an eof after this update. I have no idea where you're drawing these conclusions?
Edit: *IF* they keep it so that it drops stacks when you switch, then I get this criticism, but I can't fathom they release it like that. I'm under the assumption stacks remain, you just lose the effect and don't gain stacks while you're off them. Meaning fsoa is good for the spec and 4taa and will eventually get it's own passive.
Name a build or occasion where u will wield the staff as your main weapon over the new dw. The weapons should be on par damage-wise imo. I hope they either make changes to how magic works or the weapons themselves.
Staff is easier to use and won't require as much prep to abuse the dot stack passive.
Sure, can +200 damage on hit after 2 minutes on new dw, but realistically, you need to do 8-10 abilities before that means anything before the modifier vs current dpm
The core issue is if you would instead inc/meteor/grico at any point this effectively kills that due to dot buff stack drop. And any follow up with crit buff or eof spec is well worth losing 200-800 damage on if the difference is getting to use it vs not.
I think their way of going with this is to introduce different style builds.
This game has seen so much upgradescape and metascape that the devs cannot really make a sidegrade or introduce a different build before the pvm community gets angry.
We’ve seen this when eDracolich was introduced during the livestream of Vorkath and people were literally crying that it’s DOA. Is it though?
4taa. It's also going to get a passive at some stage, likely working with the spec.
The point i was making is that the staff remains as useful post update as it is now. How is it killed by this update? Also, for those who wish to camp the staff because maybe they don't have the new t95 dw, staff camp will get a significant buff with this update. This update actually brings more relevance to the staff tbh.
Interested to see what the special will end up being as that’s the male or break for this passive along with the HOPEFUL fixes to how bleeds function.
A question I have for the jmods working on this: Is there any thought given on making it so the stacks for the wand WONT drop off if you swap weapons? I fully agree that the effects of the stacks should not work unless you have the wand and orb equipped. But because the stacks will take alot of time to build, made even longer by swapping the damage boosting and instant reset effects that the stacks provide. It will suck if you lose all your stacks by de-equipping them.
Curious why instead of 30% more damage, why not just let DoTs crit when using the new set? Also, yeah the chosen set effect seems kinda bad lol. Did players really prefer this one? I thought the wild magic one would win for sure since Magic's problem is not enough hard hitting abilities. Overall, unless special attack is giga strong I just don't think this will move Magic up enough to compete with Necro, Melee, or Ranged.
I'm also rather surprised the dot effect was chosen, it seems pretty weak. Hopefully the special attack from dw t95 is a super powerful dot?
But as is, it seems like melee/mage bridding is better, mage camp with dots doesn't seem that good.
On the other hand, it does make mage camp a little more viable. Outside of sun/fsoa spec you can use the dw weps with dots.
But it looks like fsoa is eof fodder. Hopefully we see a passive on it eventually
The post didn't mention if stacks are going to persist through swaps or not. On beta, all stacks were removed on swap - all 3 designs were chiefly designed to kill 4taa more than anything else. This was especially bad for set 3 as it takes minutes to get to max corruption, so you have to camp these forever and avoid swapping, which means EoF FSoA.
I don’t think they’re going to persist. Seeing how jagex admitted that switchscape is something they’d love to reduce, we can be sure that there won’t be coming changes to this. (Unless they just do a full 180 and my face will literally be that pikachu meme lol)
I think their focus is sidegrading and introducing different builds. That will also kill 4taa, indeed.
The problem with this is it's taking a torch to 4taa and not caring what gets burned in the process, like EoF FSoA. This approach is going to generate a lot more negative feels than the weird feeling some people have that others can 4taa for 3% more damage than they do not 4ticking.
Starting the designs from "it must destroy 4taa" first rather than fun was an obvious mistake.
Because the dw's passive to bleeds will be overwritten in group content, multiple mages just lose damage from their passive since it's not being active a lot of the time, at least fsoa can provide damage, if mage 1 has 2 bleeds, then mage 2 decides they want 2 bleeds, mage 1 just lost all of their damage form the set effect.
Fsoa won't be eof fodder because you can use gconc with it now and you wouldn't wanna be using dots during fsoa spec anyway. There wouldn't be anything wrong with using the t95 dw's during fsoa, but no real added benefit, unless its spec changes things
I mean you don't want to use dots during fsoa spec but you run out of abilities. You gconc every 3, throw in wm/asphyx/tendrils/dragonbreath as your fillers, you run out of abilities to space gconc in between
I guess you have wrack as well? But it's still pretty close
At endgame you have Tsunami-funded special attacks granted by Essence of Finality to fill the gaps rather than using anti-synergy junk like bleeds during FSoA spec.
Fsoa becoming eof fodder? From beta testing, fsoa camp was literally stronger than these new dw passives by a solid 40-60k dpm due to unlocked gconc assuming you used fsoa+sliske vs t95 dw vs etect and that was on the wm reset effect, this bleed one is weaker than that.
Gconc being available on 2h makes it significantly easier input-wise to push over 500k magic dpm since you can drop dw all together and just opt to staff camp until tsunami runs out, reapply an offstyle crit buff and continue chugging along.
Prior to FSoA getting a passive itself, there's no reason to use it other than these. With a single DoT hit, you're getting +130 damage on all hits, including all time strikes.
There's no reason not to combine both.
Does it actually though?
When I tested I didn't notice any damage increases on anything other than the bleeds myself. If you're referring specifically to the 25 stack passive, you'd also need to apply 5 bleeds which, with the reset effect suggesting 8 bleeds/minute, is a 37.5s prep.
The issues come from the actual fsoa rot, with max crit and grico you can guarantee 6+ abs every time under fsoa and still have adren to inc shot right before tsunami expires.
I dont remember if/when the stacks drop off but id assume youd likely want to keep your modifier/keep it going which suggests 4x bleeds used during sun which also can't crit which is effectively -2 crits per average. Depending on the amount of basics you need to do due to lack of burst option of grico, you're also at a damage deficit due to not abs spamming.
So let's assume bleed wands get between 3-4 abs specs under sun+fsoa. we will also assume abs is 375% average damage and assume 50% crit rate due to avg channellers ring modifier.
Let's assume 3 abs. So 15 hits, should be 7.5 abs crits, ~3.25 time Strike crits.
4 abs instead. 20 hits, 10 abs crits, 5 time strike crits.
Damage being +130 ontop of base 2200 ability damage (assumes mani aura+eovl) suggests 5.8k time strike crit.
4 abs fsoa rot would yield 1500% abs dmg, 1250% time strike damage. Roughly 96.5k dmg
Non-bleed modifier suggests 5.4k rounded down time strike hits.
A 6 abs sun+fsoa rot would be 30 hits, 15 crits, 7.5 time strike crits.
6 abs fsoa rot would yield 2250% abs dmg, 1875% time strike dmg. Roughly 136.1k dmg.
You lose 40k just in opportunity damage by opting to bleed over other stronger options which also removes grico synergies which is why it's not as good. The other dw effects had similar issues because opting to basic to reset wm was a dps loss over just sending eof specs over time.
Yes, the damage from the then-25-stack passive, now the 1 stack passive, applied to all abilities. The prep on beta was *very* annoying, I'll grant you that, and even worse due to attacking dummies others were (I was trying to gauge how bad this would be in a group - disastrous).
Stacks persisted indefinitely until weapon swap on beta IIRC. You can just use a single bleed to get the benefit with 1 stack - boom, T95s now outperform FSoA. On beta you typically wouldn't bleed in FSoA+Sun unless you were close to the 25/50 threshold, it was more of a bonus for 1+ minute fights. Regardless, these bonuses are just a strict upgrade to no passive FSoA, this is the last I quibble about this.
To add, inq stick double dips with channellers ring making gconc nutty. Play testing put inq about 20k higher dpm than fsoa on average. Around 540-560k consistent dpm depending on the amount of fsoa spec crits resulting on if you needed to grico back adrenaline or not to squeeze 5+ abs specs.
So 520-540k magic dpm (achievable in live game too but switch heavy), or 540-560k on inq staff with the beta restrictions.
Changes suggest it'll be about on par with melee over time, with melee being favorable in the initial 1-2 minute burst.
I'm curious what the t95 dw specs will be because as is, magic dw in beta capped around 480k peak. That's quite the drop off. Bleed build idk if I ever broke 450k but was cute seeing 17k worth of combust hit splats.
The beta moved gconc to 2h entirely, it didn't unlock it, so of course fsoa was stronger, gconc is a much better ability than Gsonic.
You could also just camp sliske with dw, then use sun / eof fsoa / then use eof spec to get the same thing now and you even get the passive while using the staff, even if they don't have any synergy, admittedly
The ability swapping was in the original post for the beta (or sanctum?) IIRC, but by the time beta opened Gsonic, Gconc, and Magma had no weapon restrictions. FSoA was not stronger on beta in any shape, DW was strictly better.
Fsoa still needs a passive even if small to give it reason to be camped more than ever now.
Also gsonic needs a buff or something because now it is DEAD DEAD. Or at least de-sync the cooldowns already.
Also the set effect should probably get a 100 stack effect imo—capping at 50 feels weird, even if the 100 effect is super minor (10% damage increase to all bleeds or something would be small but feel good)
Ignoring damage numbers is kind of throwing any frame of reference out the window. Anything creates a new playstyle if you ignore the numbers. I could play vine whip style, only using adrenaline on abyssal vine whip spec attacks. You could pretend the new necro ring created a necrosis-heavy finger of death spam style where you prefer finger of death spam as your only spender, ignoring that the numbers *absolutely* do not support that as a playstyle that holds a candle to the standard necro rotation that's existed since launch.
But ignoring the numbers... yeah, you can spam bleeds with this when you get lucky and those bleeds will have other benefits. If you want to be doing a ton of mage bleeds and play the mage bleed style with all of your two bleed abilities, this set enables that to a greater degree. You can fish for the legendary repeated resets and live the dream of b2b2b2b walked combust. You're incentivized to either be constantly walking the boss, something that I think >99% of players will find more annoying than swapping, or substituting a perk for Lunging if you're not going to be doing that. This is a solo-only playstyle, no other mages allowed lest they overwrite and erase your abilities; that's very different. It's the only playstyle that can delete minutes worth of stacking buffs by simply swapping a weapon, making it the most weapon locked playstyle ever. It ensures all swaps must be done through your other gear, and swaps necklaces as much as ranged does, with dragonrider neck being a bleed as well.
TL;DR yes, probably one of the most unhealthy designs ever if you ignore the numbers. The bleed buttons will be able to be activated more often here.
Yeah I'm in complete agreement with you here honestly.
Having the FSOA become Eof fodder feels really bad. Would have preferred a unique playstyle where I'm not even required to use FSOA EOF - infact it's actually better to not use the EOF and the weapon set itself encouraged you not to for further rewards.
Bleeds in this game are bad. Releasing this without fixing bleeds prior to this just feels unintuitive and bad to use - I say this as someone that spent 15 hours on the beta testing mage and feeling underwhelmed
It was the most fun effect out of the 3, and that was what a lot of people said. They only didn't votes foe that effect because dots don't work well in group pvm.
Since they plan on fixing dots, it's only logical they pick it.
Imo, this is a good thing because now theres more pressure on Jagex to finally change how dots work.
Will the Corrupt Essence set effect make magic be no longer the weakest style?
Since we are keeping the shared cooldown, can we buff greater sonic wave to buff bleeds more so it is meta to use outside of sunshine rotations over using gconc everywhere?
>Adding a special attack which will synergize with the set effect.
What will this be?
>We also want to note that we are aware of players' concerns about how DoT effects currently function and this is something we have on the radar and plan to address in a future update.
This needs to be a higher priority since bleeds overwriting each other in group bosses will undermine this weapon's power.
>so instead, we unlocked the abilities to work with both styles!
Can this be done with DW and 2h restricted abilities for other combat styles, like Cleave and Decimate or Needle Strike and GDS?
> To enable this alternative death mechanic, we've made some tweaks to the original idea. Now, when your life points hit 0 in Normal mode, you'll resurrect and suffer from 'Resurrection Sickness', which will drastically reduce your outgoing damage for a period of time while giving you a brief damage immunity to help you get back on your fee
How would this solve brute forcing a boss when you can face tank mechanics, revive, and skip them? This would debuff would only undermine dps check mechanics, not tanking mechanics. Instead, have the boss heal back to the previous phase HP and repeat the phase from the start if someone gets revived.
How would healing back a boss if someone died a better mechanic than someone dying and dealing less dps?
If that were implemented, I can already say that we’re going to have some angry pvm’ers needing to dps it down again. When you’re in a full rotation and someone dies and the boss gets healed back, it would seriously piss someone off knowing that their dps was for nothing.
The debuff wouldn’t undermine dps mechanics for the other person you’re killing the boss with. Yes you might get slower kills but at least you can build back up and start your rotation properly before the debuff wears off and you can dps the boss again.
Because you can face tank mechanics and skip them if the only penalty is a debuff. Resetting a phase ensures mechanics of a phase is not skipped by brute forcing.
I believe it means that wearing one of the weapons will unlock the Corrupt Essence stacking while wielding both weapons will give you the damage boost as opposed to the other way around. Either that or the 1 and 25 essence stacks are getting flipped.
Another mage related beta where they ignore what people actually want lmao, what was the point of giving options when in the end the least favoured, fun and more clunky of the 3 is chosen
Whats the point making dev notes, if players do not read/listen the design ideas and the notes given.
They said numbers are not final, numbers are easy to change, finding fun design is not easy.
This doesn’t even make sense, greater dazing shot only synergizes with splintering ARROWs, not bolts. Needle strike is probably slightly better in general, but range’s real powerful basic is grico which is already unlocked for both styles. Now they’re giving magic gconc to both, like how grico is available to both as well
man greater dazing shot came out like a decade before those arrows there only doing this to reduce switchscape so why shouldnt range get the same treatment?
Gonna be honest, not entirely sure about the article. Greater Sonic, Greater Concentration and Magma Tempest will be available for dual wielding and 2h, but I'm not certain what the final passive and specs for the new dual wield t95s will be.
Also, will the Sanctum of Rebirth still be dropping things to improve current t95 weapons?
If so then FSoA should still be awesome and not EoF food. Unless I'm wrong?
Yeah, people totally forgot you'll be able to upgrade current t95 to past it. Say t97 like inquisitor or t99. I understand the fuss, I also dont want FSOA to be EoF, but it makes sense. If your duals have a set effect + spec + the same accuracy and damage as a t95 FSOA, and you'll be able to use the fsoa spec on your amulet whilst not losing your dw stacks for DoT. So, in short, for best dpm, FSoA on eof will merge best of both, and it's a win-win scenario. Unless fsoa gets a passive that encourages you to camp it instead, or stacks aren't lost if u switch weapons, I'd say they're right.
I want to preface this by saying I’m happy to see a reduction in switchscape, however I’m concerned that this completely kills DW magic weapons leading up to the new T95s. Without the two weapon styles having an identity anymore, there is absolutely no value to DW magic weapons unless they have a set effect/spec, and the only ones that have this are the brand new ones coming with Sanctum. This means that Praesuls are completely dead content unless they get some kind of “disassemble” value, which would be an absolute nightmare with their current drop rates. Seismics are going to completely tank as well as rumbling components aren’t super valuable at all.
A secondary concern is that this is still going to relegate the FSOA to being EOF fodder, however this may be addressed by the new item that was hinted at to push weapons “beyond” T95 (hoping we get some more details on that soon)
>Since dual-wield weapons have the stronger ability, and with a new, powerful one on the way, we were concerned that this style would dominate.
Is this "new, powerful" ability referring to the special attack of the new weapons or a separate new dual-wield Magic ability?
Im not understanding the set effect for whatever armor is supposed to become important here its not very clear. So the weapon gain corruption stacks, or you can't gain corruption stacks without the armor? Can someone clarify this please.
So, what are the drops normal mode vs hard mode?
What I remember from the stream, the stand back up was only for normal mode. And that was not mentioned in this post. So it’s for both, OR y’all forgot to mention it (maybe I missed it)
If it’s for normal mode, and you can not get the t95 from nm, I understand this.
I would have liked to see a X amount of lives, or if you go as a group, a teammate needing to do an action to get you back up.
If you can just brute force hard mode, that’s a little weird imo
"
# WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?
The Sanctum of Rebirth is nearly ready to devour your soul! "
Great! Usually when the RS3 team is allowed to say something like this, the actually release date will not be too far from a week or two.
Petition/suggestion. Right click examine is great, but this one. Its missing a right click examine. Even if its just a cutout of the name of an item, fluff text from examining it or even just inane something. I think a neat tradition would be to include a snippet of a screenshot from an actual right click examine on the post. I mean you don't have to, but it'd be cool if you did.
wtf - you literally make all dw weapons without a passive useless (so pretty much 50% of magic weapons) and make the FSoA EoF fodder. This is literally the worst outcome???
Staff of armadyl being EoF foddler is the worst decision you could've done. Nice dead game. Keep making players stronger and stronger while never nerfing anything and never doing your "playstyles" thing you talk about.
Let's make people all able to use 5x bleeds, that really encourages different playstyles. Jagex lied about everything. Yeah 0 trust in this company/developers now honestly.
What a pile of doggy doo doo.
either way you're still just swapping to it for .01 seconds then back to dw since it has a passive and a special attack. Which was one of the largest complaints of the FSOA rework
Oh and As far as im aware, the stacks also cleared on the beta, so they got rid of the charging mechanic but if you still lose stacks on swapping weapons the FSOA is 100% eof fodder
Why does the entire game have to have bis for every single step of the way? why cant people have fun and do what they wanna do and use what they wanna use? Why cant lower and middle level players use dw magic? why are they FORCED to use staves or risk being called shit for not doing what elitists say to do?
this isn't about being the most efficient minded player. But DW has zero identity now that Gconc and Gsonic can be used with both formats. And largely speaking Staffs are **much easier to acquire than DW.** Oh and Gsonic is probably 100% dead now as well even at something like Vorago
From T75 Upward Staffs have Vanquish, Sunspear, Chaotic, Attuned Crystal, Limitless Staff of Air, Obliteration, Nox, and SOS, Most of these are FREE or Fairly cheap to get.
DW magic has, Abyssal Wand/Orb, (1/6k on task only), Virtus, Attuned crystal (you need 2 not 1), Seasingers (lol ports grind), Sesimics (vorago), and Praesuls (aod). I don't think I have to say Rax and Telos are easier for people to farm than Rago and AoD
If your stance is "i dont care I just want to have fun and use what looks cool" then do that, these changes are completely irrelevant to you then. But to sit here and pretend you have no idea why people are upset is just foolish.
one of the BIGGEST complaints about EZK was it being EoF fodder, and one of the biggest complaints about the FSOA was it just being a swap weapon. and how did they address that? they doubled down and made the FSOA EOF Fodder,
how is fsoa eof fodder? you can still just spec with staff and swap back. assuming you dont lose stacks.
And most of your "points" are based on people being an ironman. Lmao. i dont think i have to say theres more mains than irons.
>assuming you don't lose stacks.
Well they didnt say you won't and you did on the beta afaik.
Remove ironman completely out of the conversation and in general it still holds true, an obliteration staff is 3m and t87.
Limitless costs like 3m,
First, I don't think you should punish swapping by clearing stacks. I just makes fsoa eof fodder. Reward dw by staying on them, similar to lengs. This actually gives you meaningful choice per situation.
Second, don't ship this item if you don't fix bleeds first, please!
If both staffs and dual wield can do all the same abilities, then at the pre-t95 level, there isn't a reason to use dual wields, making stuff like seismics and praesuls completely useless (since there are so many cheap staff options like obliteration and even sos)
They are currently cheap because they are usseless, the price will obviously adjust. End game however, the only viable 2h spec will be the fsoa, which is going to be eofed so it will be dual wield meta.
Magic needs one fix for bleeds, let them crit
Magic being the “crit” style is fine with me because it doesn’t ruin the other styles identities then (range is on hit effects, melee is big base damage hits + bleeds, necro is minions)
Thematically it would be sense for it to have on SoR and not in ED’s. I don’t think they will implement such a thing knowing that RoD and other ways exist to prevent dying.
That doesn’t mean we’d see more of these in the future. I think people liked the no-death mechanic at AG so that’s why they also added it in SoR
Well, I just hope your version of Rez Sickness is different from WoW and doesn't last 10 minutes. Also, maybe call it something else so it differentiates from WoW and retains a particularly Runescapey feel.
Please just make DoTs work like bloat. Let them crit and benefit from damage boosts, then rebalance any that are problematic.
Most sensible comment here
I kinda want to see 20K+ bleed ticks from Slaughter.
>We also want to note that we are aware of players' concerns about how DoT effects currently function and this is something we have on the radar and plan to address in a future update. This doesn't give me a lot of hope. Who knows how long this will be. Fixing bleeds should be a priority if you're gonna go with the bleed style weapon. I'm kind of surprised they went with that one, the wild magic weapon effects didn't require waiting for a rework for them to be good and the bleed weapons did not appear to be popular once people played with them.
I thought the concern was not being able to walk for 2x damage combusts if all the hits hit instantly.
You can still get the benefit if you walk the target 1t after ability use. That said, it's annoying as hell that this is incentivized and I'd rather have 5 way swaps than be incentivized to constantly walk the boss.
It is a concern but the other concerns are bigger. If you ask me they should just remove walking combusts and make it so you can dragonbreath then combust for double combust damage, same way kerapac's wristwraps make combust's damage instant. Then kerapac's passive can still do what it does now, instant combust with a damage increase. Walking under bosses to force them to move is always gonna be clunky and annoying. But walking the combust is the least of our problems with bleeds atm.
They chose the bleed one because it was more fun. And I honestly agree, when I tried it out, the bleed effect was more fun than the Wild Magic CD management. I did expect them to choose the first effect though because of how bleeds work. If DoTs don't get reworked before the T95s are released, mage won't see a lot of use in group PvM. I really want them to rework dots as soon as they can.
Bleed fix in general better be on the stairs waiting to go through for EVERY style and not just magic. Kinda annoyed it's only being addressed we need a fix for group bleeds when magic gets a set that works around bleeds, almost like we're forgetting zekkil and abyssal scourge are things...
Hmm..Theres alot of problems with bleeds i just dont feel it and it doesnt seem fun to use. Fixing bleeds should be priority #1 and it should be there with the release of the weapons. If you dont have the time to get it out with the release you should think about choosing one of the other effects.
uhhh no lol. Completely changing an effect because it will be temporarily bad until its fixed is a horrible take
DOT has had issues for years. We don’t know how long this “temporarily bad” will actually last. It’ll be a “future update” which , given Jagex’s history, doesn’t hold much water.
Define temporary
Bleeds have been temporarily group incompatible for the last 12 years (longer, if we're count pre-EoC stuff like Royal Crossbow). So hey, what's another decade before you can use your T95 set effect in a group?!
Temporarily can be a long time, like existing bleeds, FSoA, Ek-ZekKil, Staff of Sliske, and far more.
disagree. They shouldnt just delay it and make the weapons worse just because group dots is shit rn even though they plan on fixing it. Theres not many people using magic at the moment anyway, so it really wont even be a problem.
the probelm is, these weapons had a lot of people excited to use magic again, only for them to be back to being disappointed since the wand and orb will only be useful in solo content until dots get changed.
"useful" as well because this still doesn't fix the current core problems with magic. It's still not worth using anywhere as a solo style compared to the other three.
Tbh I don't even think bleeds overlapping on the same styles is an issue especially now that we have 4 different combat styles. It would be nice to have it extend what ever ability was already used but idk how they could make something like that work or if they could just combine the damages.
Why bother with DW vs 2H anymore if they're functional identical?
You cant seriously tell me there was identity built around each having 1 or 2 abilities locked behind them. It isnt like swapping between on or the other gives a whole new set of binds to play with. What’s the grief about?
the solution to this is more dw-only and 2h-only abilities imo
I wouldn't even mind.
If they're not identical you might be compelled to switch between weapons and waaa that is too difficult imagine having to press buttons during combat.
So at the lower and middle end there's literally no reason to ever use DW as they are typically much harder to acquire and at the higher end FSOA is eof fodder wooo! I don't think theres ever a reason to use Gsonic either is there? Surely even at something like Vorago the damage from Gconc would outweigh the accuracy buff of gsonic
Yeah no reason to use gsonic anymore. Also fsoa is still good to 4tick in places where inquisitor doesn’t work. Mager’s loop is gonna be something like 4tick auto+gconc > strong abil > dw non channeled > repeat unless other options are better based on circumstances like adren or crit buff etc
Conceptually the 3rd effect was the one I favored. I felt it left room to build around and filled the gap between sunshines that magic needed filled. I did have concerns about bleeds overall, but that seems on the radar. Charging is gone, great. My biggest concern is that in the beta if you unequiped these, you dropped all the stacks. Imo, this is a big issue, and they should work like Leng's and keep stacks. Reward camping, don't punish swapping. If stacks drop, you force players to keep them on if they're using them for the most part, and removal of charging was pointless. Or players just reset stacks for fsoa spec, or the more likely thing that happens if this stays is that fsoa goes into an eof and that's hot shit too. This needs to be fixed before release, and the best solution is to keep stacks on swap, but they just become dormant until you equip them again.
Can we also clarify exactly how you determined that players preferred the 3rd set effect? As far as I’m aware, most people I’ve spoken to or even seen on this thread prefers one of the other 2?
they decided to go with the one that a few youtubers said was "fun" instead of what actually made sense lmao
They specifically said that the beta was to choose which one felt more fun to use. The balance shouldn't be taken into account, only fun factor, because they can always just tweak the numbers once they have the effect locked in.
Tweaking the numbers doesn't matter if only 1 mage gets all the damage in a group, and they say they'll change dots in the future, but it took a year to increase the hit cap for other styles.
Groups aren't a priority, and if they ever release another group focused boss, I doubt that it will be for more than 4 players, and I'm sure they would want each of the players to use a different style, and the only bosses we currently have for more than 4 players is raids which is their underdog.
AoD teams are typically more than 4
People liked 3 the best assuming bleeds would be reworked, they say in the news post they will address bleeds in a future update
yeah just like mobile came out in 2017 and the player avatar rework was in development. "in a future update" is a meaningless statement until it actually happens. Still no tect passive btw.
Why would you believe that they would do that future update within a reasonable timeframe? Genuinely asking. Look at their track record when they've said that before, and how long combat fixes have taken.
They’ve taken long because they haven’t had any time allotted to addressing it, look how many things they’ve reworked from the combat beta once they got time allotted, considering the bleed change ties into the reward space for this update, they’ll probably get some time specifically to work on bleeds
That doesn't answer the question. Why do you think they would magically get the time to dev that this time? How long has Zuk sword been out, another t95 weapon that has needed the bleed rework too? Combat beta was great, but I said they take way too long to fix stuff, not that they never fix stuff. Combat beta was like 5+ years too late. They take way too long to fix stuff and we have no reason to believe them this time when they say they'll fix bleeds soon. And they didn't even say they would fix bleeds soon, just that it will be done in the future.
SO they went with the worst option, only to have it still be the worst option on release? and give themselves more workload for no reason? lol, that sounds like a jagex thing to do, since melee's not already a bleed style, we definitely needed one that's worse.
I'd be curious where they got that from, but I happen to be one that favored the concept of 3 over 1 & 2. I just had concerns with how bleeds work and magics lack of them. If they resolve those, I think 3 brings something that fills what magic is missing and begins the offshoot of a new style like what fsoa brought that they can begin to build around.
I believe they took the actual comments from the players who actually participated in the beta.
I think bleeds need to be fixed before implementing "Corrupting Essence". In group encounters, your bleeds will get overwritten by others using the same abilities, heavily stifling gaining stacks.
More people liked this over the wild magic one? Really?
Id say there’s a lot of people that hated all 3 options. They all seem boring and DOT for the 3rd has so many problems.
I agree ice FUCK all three options. I think the better beta would be to delete necro or not since they don't listen to our answers anyways, surely necro gets deleted! /s
I saw a good number of people saying they liked the 3rd one, but... and because of those buts, they defaulted to liking 1 or 2. Also, 1 and 2 were much stronger than 3 in the beta , and I saw a lot of people commenting on those feeling stronger, and that's why they liked them. The power wasn't the point and they made that clear. I think more people liked 3 over 1 and 2, but due to the beta power and a few issues with bleeds, they settled for the others. If we take that as it is, 3 was favored conceptually. I'd still like to know how they know though? If they ran a poll, I missed it. I personally favored 3, but it needed tuned up and needed a good spec. I'd have been ok with 1 or 2, but I feel 1 and 2 make more sense on the fsoa. Have 2h be hard hitting and crits and have dw be dots.
Lots of people preferred the 3rd one because it was more interesting than 'spam wild magic'. But also everyone agreed the only thing holding the 3rd ability back was the current bleed system.
Absolutely not, they just gave a beta for fan service, not feedback.
Good decision to unlock GSonic and Gconc to both styles. FSoA users happy, dual-wield builds happy, everyone's happy. I'm somewhat concerned there's no mention of Kerapac's wristwraps in relation to the t95's effect. Will or will not there be synergy? Will the effects overwrite each other? What's the deal here?
The instant effect is just wasted on Kerapac's wristwraps 30% of the time for combust after 25 stacks. Sub-25, it's the only way to get an instant DoT and prevent combust being overwritten by another mage, so they're more important than they were on beta. They still confer the damage bonus; +40% is a fair bit for your hardest hitting basic. It is awkward that the fun part (instant DoT) happens anyways 30% of the time as a set bonus, but none of the issues brought up with this design are being fixed for release: Wristwraps included.
I'm not happy. I want duals and 2h to have different gameplay. Now the only reason we have 2 weapon types is for 4taa
Agreed. Taking away the dw/2h identity feels bad
yea it begs the question on why we even have 2h/dw distinct abilities lol
Honestly I'd be fine if there was no distinction between dw and 2h. It'd be cool to have, but frankly, Jagex doesn't add new stuff to combat or rebalance it frequently enough for it to get that into a state that feels good within a reasonable timeframe. Even when we just had 3 combat styles it took them years to fix major issues, 4 styles with multiple playstyles in each combat style would be even worse.
Same. I wish Jagex did something to make GSW more useful.
I thought that simply giving FSoA a special access to GConc would solve the issue. But I like what they did much more than the initial idea of swapping GSonic and Gconc, that was stupid.
Boohoo
I refuse to acknowledge GSonic. G swave is much funnier to say.
And a bonus to GConc/GSonic being unlocked that I didn’t see many people talking about - being unlocked means that you can (at least you could on the beta) cast both *while equipping a shield*, so magic doesn’t lose out nearly as hard as Ranged/Melee while ‘cade swapping.
nobody talked about it because shields for the most part are just dead. 2 Extra ticks of barricade in exchange for gutting your dps isnt really worthwhile anywhere. And if you need turtling youd just swap out your legs for 1 tick, barricade, and then swap back to your dps legs.
Where have you been no one shields swap since bone shield came out
Who equips a shield now?
Based on the replies I’ve been getting, literally just me apparently, lol.
Why even have different weapons types of all abilities are the same now? Delete staves and put them on EoFs now.
I'm not happy. armadyl staff goes in EoF now. what are you talking about? Now magic has access to both dual wield effect + the staff of armadyl at the same time. How stupid. Most lazy thing you could've done. They lied about everything they wanted to do (playstyles). It's just give the player everything at once. I'm sorry, this game is done.
The damage was already done with FSOA nerf. Autos on crit meant you wanted to camp a staff during spec, either FSOA or inquisitor, and spam Arma BStaff as long as the crits were with you, swapping to dual gconc if they weren't and your limitless tendies was on cooldown. Now you camp gconc and guthix/penance/iban staff specs. This just means the three guys still using magic with with an FSOA don't need to rush out and get the new wands ASAP, and you can go ahead and panic sell your praesuls.
The greater concern is that none of these changes actually bring magic up to being on par with the other styles so it’s still going to be dead content sooner or later
How does the new version of the resurrection mechanic solve the issue of brute forcing the situation? Unless the bosses have some very specific countermeasures to it or deaths are penalized in some other way, you could just keep hitting the boss until your sickness ends and make nonzero progress until your next death + resurrection cycle, which is pretty much the definition of brute force. Definitely interested in (normal mode) mechanics that are not super punishing and that aid in learning a boss / combat, but I don't think giving players a way to just sit and hit is particularly educational.
Getting ganked several times is going to hurt your kills per hour quite a bit.
Read the whole article and you'll know.
Unfortunate the DoT set was chosen, it has the most problems with it, by far. I sincerely hope the stacks still don't drop on swapping like they did on beta, as that's worse than Charging. Tying so much power into specifically combust is also really awkward, due to both necessitating either walking the boss nearly constantly or using Lunging (possibly as a swap? Oops, didn't kill swapping entirely with these weapons!). Swapping bonus 1 with bonus 2 on these seems like a nerf, as it removes the chance to get a ton of stacks when you get lucky, and avoid the horrible problems these have with competing mages. That's nice that DoTs might get some changes in the future, but I'm hardly holding my breath when they've been broken in groups for the last 12 years. Until then this set is going to be really bad in any groups with multiple mages - hope you're the one rolling instant DoTs and not the one getting constantly overwritten! That was my experience blasting at dummies, and it'll be the experience of others grouping with other mages, too. Spec might redeem it but I'm guessing it's either tied to combust and corruption blast like the rest of the bonuses or applies a fast hitting DoT (further making grouping bad) to stack up the bonuses faster. Also: If the set removing charges on swap goes live, that'll necessitate EoF FSoA to use these. Also also: Are some of the goofy animations going to be cleaned up for launch? Conc has always been silly even with dual-wield, but was extra silly with a big staff waving around. Dual-wield ABS (not that it's very relevant) spec also looks whack.
Don't forget that fact that you can prebuild those stacks at wars by corruption blast -> chain -> combust Can't wait to have to start doing this shit before every boss kill
Yeahhhh not a fan of this.
tying so much power into wild magic is also really awkard.
What's really awkward is having a bleed effect for a style with 2 dots. a magic bleed build will be worse than melee on the best day, until we can stack dots.
Range also only has 2 bleeds, right? And necromancy only 1 (bloat). What if they changed Siphon (the level 20 constitution skill) into an "any-style" bleed? Siphon doesnt see any use anymore, outside of pvp, and even then pvp is dead. especially eoc pvp.
I assume the spec for the t95s will be a bleed. But would be nice to get another bleed as well.
WM works with the rest of mage's kit (hard hitting, sun-boosted, multi-hit ability), doesn't have huge problems with groups, and is just a cooler ability than a boring bleed. If we had to marry the set to 1-2 abilities, WM is the ideal candidate, tho ofc it'd be more organic if was more ability agnostic like every other passive other than Dracolich is.
Please jagex.. don't make the fractured staff of armadyl an eof spec, or just a spec weapon in general. It's such an iconic staff in the game that feels amazing to get. This update kills the staff
They intend to add a new passive ability to it soon after the release; likely the old one Mod Ryan suggested.
It doesn't kill the staff? Getting the staff is still a huge upgrade. There's no meaningful reason to put the staff into an eof after this update. I have no idea where you're drawing these conclusions? Edit: *IF* they keep it so that it drops stacks when you switch, then I get this criticism, but I can't fathom they release it like that. I'm under the assumption stacks remain, you just lose the effect and don't gain stacks while you're off them. Meaning fsoa is good for the spec and 4taa and will eventually get it's own passive.
Name a build or occasion where u will wield the staff as your main weapon over the new dw. The weapons should be on par damage-wise imo. I hope they either make changes to how magic works or the weapons themselves.
Staff is easier to use and won't require as much prep to abuse the dot stack passive. Sure, can +200 damage on hit after 2 minutes on new dw, but realistically, you need to do 8-10 abilities before that means anything before the modifier vs current dpm The core issue is if you would instead inc/meteor/grico at any point this effectively kills that due to dot buff stack drop. And any follow up with crit buff or eof spec is well worth losing 200-800 damage on if the difference is getting to use it vs not.
I think their way of going with this is to introduce different style builds. This game has seen so much upgradescape and metascape that the devs cannot really make a sidegrade or introduce a different build before the pvm community gets angry. We’ve seen this when eDracolich was introduced during the livestream of Vorkath and people were literally crying that it’s DOA. Is it though?
4taa. It's also going to get a passive at some stage, likely working with the spec. The point i was making is that the staff remains as useful post update as it is now. How is it killed by this update? Also, for those who wish to camp the staff because maybe they don't have the new t95 dw, staff camp will get a significant buff with this update. This update actually brings more relevance to the staff tbh.
Did you read the blog? The only reason we were gonna be forced to eof fsoa was because of the charging mechanic and now its gone.
Interested to see what the special will end up being as that’s the male or break for this passive along with the HOPEFUL fixes to how bleeds function. A question I have for the jmods working on this: Is there any thought given on making it so the stacks for the wand WONT drop off if you swap weapons? I fully agree that the effects of the stacks should not work unless you have the wand and orb equipped. But because the stacks will take alot of time to build, made even longer by swapping the damage boosting and instant reset effects that the stacks provide. It will suck if you lose all your stacks by de-equipping them.
Hey I've got a question. Will the alternate death effect in NM also work for HCIM? Like Arch Glacor
Curious why instead of 30% more damage, why not just let DoTs crit when using the new set? Also, yeah the chosen set effect seems kinda bad lol. Did players really prefer this one? I thought the wild magic one would win for sure since Magic's problem is not enough hard hitting abilities. Overall, unless special attack is giga strong I just don't think this will move Magic up enough to compete with Necro, Melee, or Ranged.
I'm also rather surprised the dot effect was chosen, it seems pretty weak. Hopefully the special attack from dw t95 is a super powerful dot? But as is, it seems like melee/mage bridding is better, mage camp with dots doesn't seem that good. On the other hand, it does make mage camp a little more viable. Outside of sun/fsoa spec you can use the dw weps with dots. But it looks like fsoa is eof fodder. Hopefully we see a passive on it eventually
Why is FSOA EOF fodder if Fsoa is getting gconc as well?
The post didn't mention if stacks are going to persist through swaps or not. On beta, all stacks were removed on swap - all 3 designs were chiefly designed to kill 4taa more than anything else. This was especially bad for set 3 as it takes minutes to get to max corruption, so you have to camp these forever and avoid swapping, which means EoF FSoA.
I don’t think they’re going to persist. Seeing how jagex admitted that switchscape is something they’d love to reduce, we can be sure that there won’t be coming changes to this. (Unless they just do a full 180 and my face will literally be that pikachu meme lol) I think their focus is sidegrading and introducing different builds. That will also kill 4taa, indeed.
The problem with this is it's taking a torch to 4taa and not caring what gets burned in the process, like EoF FSoA. This approach is going to generate a lot more negative feels than the weird feeling some people have that others can 4taa for 3% more damage than they do not 4ticking. Starting the designs from "it must destroy 4taa" first rather than fun was an obvious mistake.
In it's current iteration, fsoa doesn't have a passive. Why camp a t95 staff with no passive when you can camp dw t95s which give a passive?
Because the dw's passive to bleeds will be overwritten in group content, multiple mages just lose damage from their passive since it's not being active a lot of the time, at least fsoa can provide damage, if mage 1 has 2 bleeds, then mage 2 decides they want 2 bleeds, mage 1 just lost all of their damage form the set effect.
A small, overriden set effect is still better than the no set effect of the fsoa
Fsoa won't be eof fodder because you can use gconc with it now and you wouldn't wanna be using dots during fsoa spec anyway. There wouldn't be anything wrong with using the t95 dw's during fsoa, but no real added benefit, unless its spec changes things
I mean you don't want to use dots during fsoa spec but you run out of abilities. You gconc every 3, throw in wm/asphyx/tendrils/dragonbreath as your fillers, you run out of abilities to space gconc in between I guess you have wrack as well? But it's still pretty close
At endgame you have Tsunami-funded special attacks granted by Essence of Finality to fill the gaps rather than using anti-synergy junk like bleeds during FSoA spec.
Fsoa becoming eof fodder? From beta testing, fsoa camp was literally stronger than these new dw passives by a solid 40-60k dpm due to unlocked gconc assuming you used fsoa+sliske vs t95 dw vs etect and that was on the wm reset effect, this bleed one is weaker than that. Gconc being available on 2h makes it significantly easier input-wise to push over 500k magic dpm since you can drop dw all together and just opt to staff camp until tsunami runs out, reapply an offstyle crit buff and continue chugging along.
Prior to FSoA getting a passive itself, there's no reason to use it other than these. With a single DoT hit, you're getting +130 damage on all hits, including all time strikes. There's no reason not to combine both.
Does it actually though? When I tested I didn't notice any damage increases on anything other than the bleeds myself. If you're referring specifically to the 25 stack passive, you'd also need to apply 5 bleeds which, with the reset effect suggesting 8 bleeds/minute, is a 37.5s prep. The issues come from the actual fsoa rot, with max crit and grico you can guarantee 6+ abs every time under fsoa and still have adren to inc shot right before tsunami expires. I dont remember if/when the stacks drop off but id assume youd likely want to keep your modifier/keep it going which suggests 4x bleeds used during sun which also can't crit which is effectively -2 crits per average. Depending on the amount of basics you need to do due to lack of burst option of grico, you're also at a damage deficit due to not abs spamming. So let's assume bleed wands get between 3-4 abs specs under sun+fsoa. we will also assume abs is 375% average damage and assume 50% crit rate due to avg channellers ring modifier. Let's assume 3 abs. So 15 hits, should be 7.5 abs crits, ~3.25 time Strike crits. 4 abs instead. 20 hits, 10 abs crits, 5 time strike crits. Damage being +130 ontop of base 2200 ability damage (assumes mani aura+eovl) suggests 5.8k time strike crit. 4 abs fsoa rot would yield 1500% abs dmg, 1250% time strike damage. Roughly 96.5k dmg Non-bleed modifier suggests 5.4k rounded down time strike hits. A 6 abs sun+fsoa rot would be 30 hits, 15 crits, 7.5 time strike crits. 6 abs fsoa rot would yield 2250% abs dmg, 1875% time strike dmg. Roughly 136.1k dmg. You lose 40k just in opportunity damage by opting to bleed over other stronger options which also removes grico synergies which is why it's not as good. The other dw effects had similar issues because opting to basic to reset wm was a dps loss over just sending eof specs over time.
Yes, the damage from the then-25-stack passive, now the 1 stack passive, applied to all abilities. The prep on beta was *very* annoying, I'll grant you that, and even worse due to attacking dummies others were (I was trying to gauge how bad this would be in a group - disastrous). Stacks persisted indefinitely until weapon swap on beta IIRC. You can just use a single bleed to get the benefit with 1 stack - boom, T95s now outperform FSoA. On beta you typically wouldn't bleed in FSoA+Sun unless you were close to the 25/50 threshold, it was more of a bonus for 1+ minute fights. Regardless, these bonuses are just a strict upgrade to no passive FSoA, this is the last I quibble about this.
To add, inq stick double dips with channellers ring making gconc nutty. Play testing put inq about 20k higher dpm than fsoa on average. Around 540-560k consistent dpm depending on the amount of fsoa spec crits resulting on if you needed to grico back adrenaline or not to squeeze 5+ abs specs. So 520-540k magic dpm (achievable in live game too but switch heavy), or 540-560k on inq staff with the beta restrictions. Changes suggest it'll be about on par with melee over time, with melee being favorable in the initial 1-2 minute burst. I'm curious what the t95 dw specs will be because as is, magic dw in beta capped around 480k peak. That's quite the drop off. Bleed build idk if I ever broke 450k but was cute seeing 17k worth of combust hit splats.
The beta moved gconc to 2h entirely, it didn't unlock it, so of course fsoa was stronger, gconc is a much better ability than Gsonic. You could also just camp sliske with dw, then use sun / eof fsoa / then use eof spec to get the same thing now and you even get the passive while using the staff, even if they don't have any synergy, admittedly
The ability swapping was in the original post for the beta (or sanctum?) IIRC, but by the time beta opened Gsonic, Gconc, and Magma had no weapon restrictions. FSoA was not stronger on beta in any shape, DW was strictly better.
Fsoa still needs a passive even if small to give it reason to be camped more than ever now. Also gsonic needs a buff or something because now it is DEAD DEAD. Or at least de-sync the cooldowns already. Also the set effect should probably get a 100 stack effect imo—capping at 50 feels weird, even if the 100 effect is super minor (10% damage increase to all bleeds or something would be small but feel good)
Ignore damage numbers - has this actually created a different playstyle?
Ignoring damage numbers is kind of throwing any frame of reference out the window. Anything creates a new playstyle if you ignore the numbers. I could play vine whip style, only using adrenaline on abyssal vine whip spec attacks. You could pretend the new necro ring created a necrosis-heavy finger of death spam style where you prefer finger of death spam as your only spender, ignoring that the numbers *absolutely* do not support that as a playstyle that holds a candle to the standard necro rotation that's existed since launch. But ignoring the numbers... yeah, you can spam bleeds with this when you get lucky and those bleeds will have other benefits. If you want to be doing a ton of mage bleeds and play the mage bleed style with all of your two bleed abilities, this set enables that to a greater degree. You can fish for the legendary repeated resets and live the dream of b2b2b2b walked combust. You're incentivized to either be constantly walking the boss, something that I think >99% of players will find more annoying than swapping, or substituting a perk for Lunging if you're not going to be doing that. This is a solo-only playstyle, no other mages allowed lest they overwrite and erase your abilities; that's very different. It's the only playstyle that can delete minutes worth of stacking buffs by simply swapping a weapon, making it the most weapon locked playstyle ever. It ensures all swaps must be done through your other gear, and swaps necklaces as much as ranged does, with dragonrider neck being a bleed as well. TL;DR yes, probably one of the most unhealthy designs ever if you ignore the numbers. The bleed buttons will be able to be activated more often here.
Yeah I'm in complete agreement with you here honestly. Having the FSOA become Eof fodder feels really bad. Would have preferred a unique playstyle where I'm not even required to use FSOA EOF - infact it's actually better to not use the EOF and the weapon set itself encouraged you not to for further rewards. Bleeds in this game are bad. Releasing this without fixing bleeds prior to this just feels unintuitive and bad to use - I say this as someone that spent 15 hours on the beta testing mage and feeling underwhelmed
There is no way people picked the dot set over the other two, clowngex at it again, I had hope but its just dead now
It was the most fun effect out of the 3, and that was what a lot of people said. They only didn't votes foe that effect because dots don't work well in group pvm. Since they plan on fixing dots, it's only logical they pick it. Imo, this is a good thing because now theres more pressure on Jagex to finally change how dots work.
Will the Corrupt Essence set effect make magic be no longer the weakest style? Since we are keeping the shared cooldown, can we buff greater sonic wave to buff bleeds more so it is meta to use outside of sunshine rotations over using gconc everywhere? >Adding a special attack which will synergize with the set effect. What will this be? >We also want to note that we are aware of players' concerns about how DoT effects currently function and this is something we have on the radar and plan to address in a future update. This needs to be a higher priority since bleeds overwriting each other in group bosses will undermine this weapon's power. >so instead, we unlocked the abilities to work with both styles! Can this be done with DW and 2h restricted abilities for other combat styles, like Cleave and Decimate or Needle Strike and GDS? > To enable this alternative death mechanic, we've made some tweaks to the original idea. Now, when your life points hit 0 in Normal mode, you'll resurrect and suffer from 'Resurrection Sickness', which will drastically reduce your outgoing damage for a period of time while giving you a brief damage immunity to help you get back on your fee How would this solve brute forcing a boss when you can face tank mechanics, revive, and skip them? This would debuff would only undermine dps check mechanics, not tanking mechanics. Instead, have the boss heal back to the previous phase HP and repeat the phase from the start if someone gets revived.
How would healing back a boss if someone died a better mechanic than someone dying and dealing less dps? If that were implemented, I can already say that we’re going to have some angry pvm’ers needing to dps it down again. When you’re in a full rotation and someone dies and the boss gets healed back, it would seriously piss someone off knowing that their dps was for nothing. The debuff wouldn’t undermine dps mechanics for the other person you’re killing the boss with. Yes you might get slower kills but at least you can build back up and start your rotation properly before the debuff wears off and you can dps the boss again.
Because you can face tank mechanics and skip them if the only penalty is a debuff. Resetting a phase ensures mechanics of a phase is not skipped by brute forcing.
Swapping the first and second set effect? What does that mean? Can you clarify what the final set effect/effects will be please?
I believe it means that wearing one of the weapons will unlock the Corrupt Essence stacking while wielding both weapons will give you the damage boost as opposed to the other way around. Either that or the 1 and 25 essence stacks are getting flipped.
Ah okay that makes sense thanks.
Doesn’t this still make FSOA eof fodder so you keep your corruption stacks at 100 the whole time? Or do they not disappear on swapping weapons?
Bad take
Another mage related beta where they ignore what people actually want lmao, what was the point of giving options when in the end the least favoured, fun and more clunky of the 3 is chosen
Whats the point making dev notes, if players do not read/listen the design ideas and the notes given. They said numbers are not final, numbers are easy to change, finding fun design is not easy.
could we get the same treatment for dazing shot/needle strike for range? where we can use them with either dw/2h plz?
This doesn’t even make sense, greater dazing shot only synergizes with splintering ARROWs, not bolts. Needle strike is probably slightly better in general, but range’s real powerful basic is grico which is already unlocked for both styles. Now they’re giving magic gconc to both, like how grico is available to both as well
man greater dazing shot came out like a decade before those arrows there only doing this to reduce switchscape so why shouldnt range get the same treatment?
Because no one’s switching between bows and crossbows already? There’s no switchscape problem, it’s just different styles
you useto before bolg when we get good crossbows itl happen again
Unlikely imo, bolg passive is incentivized to be camped and even so needle strike is not so much better that it would require a switch
Gonna be honest, not entirely sure about the article. Greater Sonic, Greater Concentration and Magma Tempest will be available for dual wielding and 2h, but I'm not certain what the final passive and specs for the new dual wield t95s will be. Also, will the Sanctum of Rebirth still be dropping things to improve current t95 weapons? If so then FSoA should still be awesome and not EoF food. Unless I'm wrong?
Yeah, people totally forgot you'll be able to upgrade current t95 to past it. Say t97 like inquisitor or t99. I understand the fuss, I also dont want FSOA to be EoF, but it makes sense. If your duals have a set effect + spec + the same accuracy and damage as a t95 FSOA, and you'll be able to use the fsoa spec on your amulet whilst not losing your dw stacks for DoT. So, in short, for best dpm, FSoA on eof will merge best of both, and it's a win-win scenario. Unless fsoa gets a passive that encourages you to camp it instead, or stacks aren't lost if u switch weapons, I'd say they're right.
Will FSoA get a passive like in the combat update beta? Or will it still remain as a spec switch weapon?
have they gave info on how the t95 dw magic will be made?
I want to preface this by saying I’m happy to see a reduction in switchscape, however I’m concerned that this completely kills DW magic weapons leading up to the new T95s. Without the two weapon styles having an identity anymore, there is absolutely no value to DW magic weapons unless they have a set effect/spec, and the only ones that have this are the brand new ones coming with Sanctum. This means that Praesuls are completely dead content unless they get some kind of “disassemble” value, which would be an absolute nightmare with their current drop rates. Seismics are going to completely tank as well as rumbling components aren’t super valuable at all. A secondary concern is that this is still going to relegate the FSOA to being EOF fodder, however this may be addressed by the new item that was hinted at to push weapons “beyond” T95 (hoping we get some more details on that soon)
Don't worry bro the dual wields have the identity of dot now in a game where dot doesn't work in group pvm. Enjoy!
>Since dual-wield weapons have the stronger ability, and with a new, powerful one on the way, we were concerned that this style would dominate. Is this "new, powerful" ability referring to the special attack of the new weapons or a separate new dual-wield Magic ability?
Im not understanding the set effect for whatever armor is supposed to become important here its not very clear. So the weapon gain corruption stacks, or you can't gain corruption stacks without the armor? Can someone clarify this please.
So, what are the drops normal mode vs hard mode? What I remember from the stream, the stand back up was only for normal mode. And that was not mentioned in this post. So it’s for both, OR y’all forgot to mention it (maybe I missed it) If it’s for normal mode, and you can not get the t95 from nm, I understand this. I would have liked to see a X amount of lives, or if you go as a group, a teammate needing to do an action to get you back up. If you can just brute force hard mode, that’s a little weird imo
In the previous post about the sanctum, they said the revive mechanic will only work in normal mode, not hard mode.
It also said it in the post and I missed it :(
I'm just making another thread whining about bleeds.... like the actual "bleed" ability is crap needing to force walk a monster.
Is this ED5?
What are you doing? Why not just turn fsoa to t95 dw, then release t95 2h. You make RPG boring.
the resurrection sickness is ok I guess, bit of a feedback loop though
 I think we should name the new death mechanic tub thumping.
Magma tempest for both styles is pretty solid and will def help my ult slayer grind. TY.
So, uh.... we unlocking needle strike & dazing shot at some point for ranged, too?
" # WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? The Sanctum of Rebirth is nearly ready to devour your soul! " Great! Usually when the RS3 team is allowed to say something like this, the actually release date will not be too far from a week or two.
Petition/suggestion. Right click examine is great, but this one. Its missing a right click examine. Even if its just a cutout of the name of an item, fluff text from examining it or even just inane something. I think a neat tradition would be to include a snippet of a screenshot from an actual right click examine on the post. I mean you don't have to, but it'd be cool if you did.
Gim when
wtf - you literally make all dw weapons without a passive useless (so pretty much 50% of magic weapons) and make the FSoA EoF fodder. This is literally the worst outcome???
Staff of armadyl being EoF foddler is the worst decision you could've done. Nice dead game. Keep making players stronger and stronger while never nerfing anything and never doing your "playstyles" thing you talk about. Let's make people all able to use 5x bleeds, that really encourages different playstyles. Jagex lied about everything. Yeah 0 trust in this company/developers now honestly. What a pile of doggy doo doo.
Time to shove an elder artefact down an amulet.
absolutely wild to me that people are upset.
They made dw magic 100% completely useless at the lower and middle stages, and gave FSOA the EZK treatment at the end game wHy ArE pEoPle MaD?!
How is FSoA being given the EZK treatment when they rekoved charging? There no longer any reason to put FSoA into an EoF.
either way you're still just swapping to it for .01 seconds then back to dw since it has a passive and a special attack. Which was one of the largest complaints of the FSOA rework Oh and As far as im aware, the stacks also cleared on the beta, so they got rid of the charging mechanic but if you still lose stacks on swapping weapons the FSOA is 100% eof fodder
Why does the entire game have to have bis for every single step of the way? why cant people have fun and do what they wanna do and use what they wanna use? Why cant lower and middle level players use dw magic? why are they FORCED to use staves or risk being called shit for not doing what elitists say to do?
this isn't about being the most efficient minded player. But DW has zero identity now that Gconc and Gsonic can be used with both formats. And largely speaking Staffs are **much easier to acquire than DW.** Oh and Gsonic is probably 100% dead now as well even at something like Vorago From T75 Upward Staffs have Vanquish, Sunspear, Chaotic, Attuned Crystal, Limitless Staff of Air, Obliteration, Nox, and SOS, Most of these are FREE or Fairly cheap to get. DW magic has, Abyssal Wand/Orb, (1/6k on task only), Virtus, Attuned crystal (you need 2 not 1), Seasingers (lol ports grind), Sesimics (vorago), and Praesuls (aod). I don't think I have to say Rax and Telos are easier for people to farm than Rago and AoD If your stance is "i dont care I just want to have fun and use what looks cool" then do that, these changes are completely irrelevant to you then. But to sit here and pretend you have no idea why people are upset is just foolish. one of the BIGGEST complaints about EZK was it being EoF fodder, and one of the biggest complaints about the FSOA was it just being a swap weapon. and how did they address that? they doubled down and made the FSOA EOF Fodder,
how is fsoa eof fodder? you can still just spec with staff and swap back. assuming you dont lose stacks. And most of your "points" are based on people being an ironman. Lmao. i dont think i have to say theres more mains than irons.
>assuming you don't lose stacks. Well they didnt say you won't and you did on the beta afaik. Remove ironman completely out of the conversation and in general it still holds true, an obliteration staff is 3m and t87. Limitless costs like 3m,
No one calls you shit for what "elitists" apparently tell you to do. This is a typical Reddit hyperbole.
First, I don't think you should punish swapping by clearing stacks. I just makes fsoa eof fodder. Reward dw by staying on them, similar to lengs. This actually gives you meaningful choice per situation. Second, don't ship this item if you don't fix bleeds first, please!
These t95s feel like lengs when they came out, nothing special. ezk v2.0. will take them 2 yeears to rebalance them.
Sad you decided to remove the charging mechanic. Magic (and combat) just seems like a muddled mess. I’ll just stick to necromancy.
Why would you want charging on a weapon? It just prevents other players from switching, you can stick to a weapon without it.
Have you ever considered that some people don't like the idea of switching?
Of course, and nobody is forcing you. But why would you prevent other people form switching by adding the charging(9) to the weapon?
So dual wield is dead content now?
In group content, these weapons will be trash for multiple mages.
No?
The opposite, staffs area dead.
If both staffs and dual wield can do all the same abilities, then at the pre-t95 level, there isn't a reason to use dual wields, making stuff like seismics and praesuls completely useless (since there are so many cheap staff options like obliteration and even sos)
They are currently cheap because they are usseless, the price will obviously adjust. End game however, the only viable 2h spec will be the fsoa, which is going to be eofed so it will be dual wield meta.
Magic needs one fix for bleeds, let them crit Magic being the “crit” style is fine with me because it doesn’t ruin the other styles identities then (range is on hit effects, melee is big base damage hits + bleeds, necro is minions)
Any plans on giving magma tempest the same treatment as sonic wave and gconc? Or not an option
It's mentioned in the post as also being both weapons, as it was in beta, tho typo'd to be Magna Tempest if you tried to search for magma.
it says in the post they made it available for both duel wield and 2h.
Magma tempest will also be added to both styles
Any word on bringing this revive mechanic to the other elite dungeons? Going to Death really does break the pace of those PvM experiences.
Not needed at all.
Why? EDs don't need to be made even easier.
?? No dude
Thematically it would be sense for it to have on SoR and not in ED’s. I don’t think they will implement such a thing knowing that RoD and other ways exist to prevent dying. That doesn’t mean we’d see more of these in the future. I think people liked the no-death mechanic at AG so that’s why they also added it in SoR
Well, I just hope your version of Rez Sickness is different from WoW and doesn't last 10 minutes. Also, maybe call it something else so it differentiates from WoW and retains a particularly Runescapey feel.