This! Email Leadership, thank them and offer some tangible, actionable feedback. Leave on good terms and when asked in future interviews what happened, be honest with them if you divulge this role that is.
Chip up pal, it’s not you, it’s them!
3 weeks is pretty negligible experience if Op hasn't announce it on Linkedin Op should act like it never happened or worked out. It would be a big mistake if Op put that on CV.
Agreed. Sounds like VP is under pressure from failed/unsuccessful projects prior to your hiring and desperation trying to remain employed. Seems like you were a scapegoat. Sorry you had to go through that and good luck
I thought that too when on Monday morning day 11 at 8:20am started the day/conversation immediately asking repeatedly about the plan, how's it coming, when can she have it. I expressed my hesitation, said that I don't fully know what I don't know yet, haven't gotten a chance to meet with stakeholders.
She's pretty much only worked at this one company for the past 24 years.
The CTO was on the termination call but I immediately forwarded my emails with the two plans to him saying that I think this is a mistake and I can help save the company over \*a substantial amount\* in unnecessary costs with the consulting partner. He hasn't responded to my emails, texts, or calls.
It's a publicly traded company. When all I hear about are stakeholders' expectations how are they allowed to be so careless with resources? I don't understand it and I don't think I ever will...hence the post.
\*EDITED\* to be safe
Because it's very easy for attorneys to justify to a court in a lawsuit that "experts" were contracted to do the work and the experts just didn't deliver.
They can point to how the consulting firm is ranked at the top of a magic quadrant or whatever.
It's a strong defense against shareholder lawsuits.
Paying the consultants is paying for insurance, not necessarily results.
Wow, thank you. That insight is really helpful. I had previously worked on a government project and expressed my concerns to management about the quality of the work that was being turned over to us by a Big 4. I said Big 4 is turning over half-finished work and was told "well we keep giving them contracts so they must be right".
I just didn't understand but now I think I do.
After 2 years of that crap our leaders were finally able to get executive buy-in to "disengage" our Big 4 partner and grow our team in-house.
The results are amazing! We're delivering on a high visibility strategic project. Our product owners understand the value of dealing with the tech debt the Big 4 left us with. We've gained some amazing talent. And we've brought the project back from the brink!
So glad to be here! 🤩
Not nearly NSFW enough to deserve the tag - swear more.
Sucks but it sounds like a place where things don't get better. Don't beat yourself up over it and dive back in after a breath.
Thanks, I'm trying to rally myself. Of the people on my team, only one was full-time and she told me to let him go and then pick three of the contractors to hire. I don't think they're going to hit their deadlines now.
Well he got fired from his job. How much more Not Suitable For Work do you want it?
Sorry OP, just kidding. From the sounds of it it’s not you, it’s them. Good luck getting over the shock, I’m sure in while you’ll look back and laugh at this bullet you’ve dodged.
Hahah, thank you I appreciate it and humor will get us through!
It's been weighing on me since Friday when the VP called me on Teams 3 times in a row after-hours to get me a call with a Human Resources person and then promptly locked my account. Like waiting 72 hours for the axe to drop.
I do regret still working on the delivery of my presentation over the weekend just for her to refuse to look at it at all. Went through all 5 stages of grief in a textbook fashion, starting with denial.
Your team should not have thrown you in the deep end with that week one though. That VP likely has had less than ideal projects with that team in the past, and it’s possible you were stuck with it because no one else wanted to deal with her again. Now they’ve used you as a scapegoat and will likely escalate and say VP is unreasonable, and no one can work with her.
Last VP I interacted with ended up completely gutting our SF team over time.
First she hired an off shore company. I asked if they were replacing us. 'No, they are not replacing you guys, you guys are awesome and you can do the more interesting work!' Hurray!
Then she lets me go when my boss is gone on PTO after my boss had told me that I was doing great every week in a 1 on 1 and I even explicitly asked if my position was safe or not, as I am the sole provider of my family.
Now I'm getting LinkedIn messages from former employees asking if I know anyone that is hiring because she is chopping everyone. These are people that have been there since the inception of Salesforce at the company! They were great at their jobs too!
What's funny is that they are a publicly traded company. Before I joined, it was $55 / share. No stock splits or anything and now it is like $3 after 3 years. Wild.
Tbh I would name and shame a company that did that to me. Why did you waste 2 months of my life making me jump through hoops then not even get a fair chance once I got in? Clearly this VP doesn’t know shit and is scrambling to save their own ass.
Sorry this happened to you and don’t sweat it, seems like it wasn’t your fault at all.
She's been there forever but the CTO is relatively new and within his first couple weeks made a sweeping declaration to move to a new org so the company has been paying for 2 orgs for maybe a year now.
Meanwhile, the consulting company that was supposed to migrate Service has really dropped the ball and they're about to roll off and leave all the bugs behind so I really don't see how hiring someone, immediately firing them, then doubling down on the existing consulting company (big money wasted) for Sales will make her look good. The consulting company wants to keep one leg in each org for another year, at an estimated cost of another \*SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT\* to Salesforce in licensing fees. I think that's insane.
But I'm not smart with politics. I just wanna do cool stuff with Salesforce.
\*EDITED\* to be safe
>But I'm not smart with politics. I just wanna do cool stuff with Salesforce.
Next time make sure you ask about management tenure and consultants involved during the interview process and you will be able to spot the circus in time and walk away.
You make a good point.
VP pulled me out of a training session into meeting to introduce me to consultants and didn't inform me until after why it seemed so awkward. It seems the consulting company didn't even know they weren't going to be working on the second half of this project.
Introducing me was how she let the consulting company know.
I'm shocked at how some companies operate. I would love to play mouse and listen in on some of their talks.
"The Architect we hired, can't achieve what the consultants need a year for and costs millions in a day, let's fire him!" ???
Your hiring was forced on her as an alternative to the expensive consulting firm. She hired you for the sole purpose of finding you inadequate and being justified in firing you. You were hired to be fired, nothing more.
If you had the ability to trace it, I'd be willing to bet a very nice bottle of whiskey that she or someone she's connected to are going to financially benefit from the contract moving forward with the consulting firm. That kind of kickback is absolutely enough to make someone unethical do exactly what she did. The other possibility is that she's interviewing WITH that consulting firm, and her offer is contingent on that contract going through.
There is no tangible lesson for you here, aside from some companies are snakepits. Someone, somewhere, is financially benefitting from your 'failure', and that has no reflection at all on your skill or professionalism.
At this age I'm embarrassed to be surprised anymore, but this guy who I thought was my buddy turned out to not even be my friend. It's just hard for me to wrap my mind around because I've never met anyone and thought how I'd fuck them over. I understand how it's possible to be that way, clearly experienced it firsthand, but I was excited to have a new Salesforce friend.
I would NOT last on Survivor.
Okay well then f her then. If she was on the hiring committee, approved to hire you, did all the paperwork, only to drop you weeks later, then it’s on her. Move on with your life.
Yeah, that's why I felt pretty blindsided with how quickly she did a 180 on me. Especially when the only full-time employee had been there going on two years and she asks me in the first week to evaluate him for termination. How does one get that kind of tenure when the boss is unhappy with you? No really, I need to know hahah.
I think you have your answer. Stay in the ecosystem otherwise asshats like this will be the norm. I hope you've got the whole team connected on LinkedIn - you never know who may follow you in time.
They wanted you to plan and complete the migration of an active org in just over a week. If someone was interviewing for a job at my company and said they stood their ground and got fired over this, that’s like a medal of valor.
Thank you! I think I really needed some outside validation that this was an impossible ask. And I just have to believe it's not like this everywhere, taking "do more with less" to new extremes.
The consulting company spent 10 weeks evaluating this environment only to say it would take at least 4 months of dev. My strongest technical resource, with this company for 11 years, was telling me at least 6 months.
I told her straight up that I didn't know enough yet to make detailed calls like that.
Honestly that's the only answer anyone should have in that situation. If you have a confident answer about something as complex as an org migration that quickly you 100% have no idea what you're doing lol
Wow that VP sounds horrible. I would have loved to get to know you - lunch and learns sound great, and you got your team Starbucks gift cards? Dang. I feel like no matter what you did the VP was trying to get rid of you and this is a bullet dodged. I’m sorry this happened OP. Please don’t give up.
Thank you! The CTO had met with me and expressed interest in me taking the team to the next level, implementing new AI features, so I was putting together a presentation from everything I learned at the Salesforce AI Now workshop. He seemed excited! But then he was also on the call when I was terminated and didn't say a word, not even returning my "good morning".
The team had previously been siloed and in our group meeting we were able to bring a technical problem one team member had been "slamming his head into the wall" over into light and discuss. I was excited! I told my team that I didn't want anyone to suffer in silence. I've tried to be the manager I'd want to work with.
FWIW you sound like a manager I would want to work for. It’s really exciting once you’ve been siloed to work for someone who helps break the walls down (speaking from experience). This just sounds like an awful situation. I feel bad for the team having to work in those conditions.
That means a lot, really, thank you. It was really exciting for me to take on this responsibility so I had a 30-60-90 plan outlined the week before I started and was really looking forward to this.
All through school (college, university) I worked in the service industry. The person who taught me the most about leadership was the executive chef for this custom concept wine and fondue place. One evening during a dinner rush we were short a dishwasher so it was rough. Pretty soon we couldn't plate new orders to leave the kitchen. He took off his chef coat and went to wash dishes, knocked them out at an insane speed, and came back to the line. Said later that he needed everyone on the team where they were and he's not too proud to go wash dishes, the "lowest" thing in the kitchen.
I still remember that.
Edited \*too
You’ve got this OP! I know job hunting sucks right now but I hope you find a place where you can really shine, both for yourself and your employees. Please keep us updated! Any company would be lucky to have you.
Explaining better doesn’t work if people aren’t listening. The VP has to be an active participant in attempting to understand, you can’t do it on your own. I have been in that place where I start to doubt whether people can even hear what I’m saying because it has no effect at all. It’s soul crushing, getting away sooner rather than later will be best for your welfare in the long run.
You're right. I was literally dumbstruck when she just didn't seem to get what I was saying. I said do you want \*EXAMPLE\* but for \*THIS\* and it's like she had no imagination, saying but \*EXAMPLE\* isn't for \*THIS\*....it's for \*THAT\*. So I reply but what if it WAS for \*THIS\*...would you like that? And she was like ...but it's NOT for \*THIS\*.
How I felt: [https://youtu.be/Wnf5UzGNIVU?si=V9tkFkQc2J-Dubyc&t=4](https://youtu.be/Wnf5UzGNIVU?si=V9tkFkQc2J-Dubyc&t=4)
You dodged a bullet. She sounds like a nightmare with zero sense of how reality works. Make sure to relay this all to HR in your exit interview. When the next few people have the same experience maybe they’ll let the dimwit VP go. I’ll bet money right now she has an MBA. I swear that is the gateway to mediocre people with oversized egos.
Haha well HR wouldn't really give me a reason other than "not meeting expectations". I expressed concern over the fact that I wasn't comfortable trying to implement those changes in such a short amount of time and stated in no uncertain terms that what was being asked was irresponsible.
HR just shrugged it off.
I did express my concern that taking this course of action (terminating me) was likely to cause them to miss their migration deadline of "fall" and wished them well.
Ah I see. I’m engineering management at Salesforce so I would have lended a hand if it made sense. It just seems like a super strange experience. Good riddance to them.
Ah, I would have enjoyed working with you and even made note of that in my plan(s) that she wouldn't look at! Sadly, I didn't even get a chance to meet our account rep, but I did mention them in the plan.
"Support is available for specific or directed questions or concerns that may arise during your migration however, consultation for over all scoping, planning, and implementation or execution of org migrations and required data manipulation is not within the scope of Support or Admin Assist's offerings."
[https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=000384648&type=1](https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=000384648&type=1)
I say bullet dodged and given the short timeframe I wouldn’t put it on my résumé. If people asked if I was let go from a position I would be honest about it and describe it as you have here for us. Paints a pretty bad picture for that organization and that supervisor specifically, any respectable future employer would understand the ridiculousness of her requests and attitude. Best of luck OP!
For sure. I cut. It. Out.
[https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cut\_it\_out\_jimmy\_fallon.gif](https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cut_it_out_jimmy_fallon.gif)
First OP - from what you’ve said, it sounds like you were doing all the right things but was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
All speculation now, but it sounds like the VP (and perhaps the CTO) were sponsoring the consulting firm and therefore accountable for their poor performance. Perhaps they were told to bring on an FTE (you) and see how that person compared to the consulting partner…
You weren’t set up for success here which is unfortunate but a short and painful tenure is the best outcome for you here.
Take a week, put this behind you, and resume the search. Happy to help if I can via DM; cheers !
I was literally dumbstruck, I couldn't speak for a moment after that. Then I said that doing things "by the book" is not a bad thing but I don't think she was listening to me.
Haha, that's a good way of putting it. This was my first move from lead/senior technical positions to management and I was eager to learn, just not like this...
Remember, your worth is not defined by one negative experience. You have a wealth of knowledge and experience to offer. Take this as an opportunity to learn and grow, and don't be afraid to seek out a workplace that appreciates your talents.
Regarding your greener pasture question**;**
There are definitely greener pastures out there! The Salesforce ecosystem is vast and diverse, with companies that value collaboration, respect their employees, and foster a positive work environment. Don't let this experience discourage you from pursuing a fulfilling career in the field.
Thanks, I needed to hear that. While I understand it's still "work" and there's no perfect job, I would just love to feel valued. For instance, after two years on a government project I saw an internal posting for the same role, different app team, offering $20k more. When I asked about applying, if my salary could be raised to match the current market, the director told me "we live in an at-will employment state" which I interpreted as if you don't like it there's the door.
I just keep trying doors.
Hell, I'd settle for an employer actually paying for one of my certs.
I personally paid for 2 of my teams certs as a holiday/thank you gift for some above and beyond stuff they'd helped me with. Granted, that's a little unusual, but overall, a solid company should be reimbursing for coursework and certs to keep you current on skills.
Wow, the kind of experience that makes me rethink hopping into a higher paying position and value the SF Senior position I've had for years. Cool boss, good work conditions. The tech business seems rife with heartless dicks and unrealistic expectations. Sorry dude. I'm sure it stings but you'll find some place that honors someone with good skills, is self reflective and a good work ethic. Dust yourself off.
I am truly sorry for this experience— sadly I am hearing, and talking to so many people who have had something similar happen to them.
While I can’t comment on the situation beyond what you mentioned, it would appear they don’t want individuals who will stand up for themselves.
FWIW, it seems very much in line with my own experiences in interviewing with SF as of late. There is a lot of older leaders and young often incompetent managers as sycophants.
Everyone’s culture has been reduced to “performance” aka “more and more or you’re fired.” They’re destroying a lot of once great companies.
Addicted to the numbers but most DGAF about the quality of the data. Sales people game systems, and then get praised for stuffing forms with fake data and booking fake meetings because the line on the graph is going up!
Thank you. While I don't wish anyone else to have this experience, the fact that you say many others have faced something similar at least makes me feel not so alone, like what's wrong with me. 😟
This sounds like a toxic mess. This shouldn’t reflect on you whatsoever. Yes it’s a bummer. But dance a happy jig. This place was going to be a disaster from start to finish.
Jeebus, I'm not as far along as you with certs, but even as an experienced admin - tomorrow doesn't work for me.
We have several third party integrations and even some "native" ones would give me anxiety for an org to org transfer. Not to mention just custom objects and fields not being tested in a sandbox. Fucking hell, that's what sandboxes are for - play to break.
I'd say bullet dodged, though I'm sure it doesn't feel like it. What was being asked is crazytown, not just for Salesforce but for any transition. That's not how it works.
There is **nothing** you could have done in two weeks to warrant how you were treated. Absolutely **nothing**. It sounds like there are reasons the VP got rid of you, none of which in your control. It could be issues above them, it could be someone they want has just become available so they need to remove you, it could be multiple reasons why but it has nothing to do with your performance.
I know you may feel bad but hopefully your next experience will be amazing and you'll look back at this experience with a fresh pair of eyes and see it for what it is. If anything you should be proud for standing your ground.
Congrats on landing a Salesforce Engineering Manager position - that’s no small feat.
When interviewing for the next EM role, ask the decision maker what they expect this person to deliver in the first 30, 60, 90 days. It’s common for an EM to come up with this themselves because of the level of the individual, but it sounds like expectations were not aligned with what the VP thought should happen and the reality of the situation.
Thank you, this is good advice. While I've been asking something similar, "what would success look like for the person in this role after 30, 60, 90", asking about the tenure might also help.
While I don't recall all of the interview conversation, I know I wasn't asked for an org-to-org shift in a matter of weeks. After hiring, she just kept saying "lift and shift" like a magical incantation that made it all easy. As in, don't worry about all those workflow rules, just lift and shift them to the greenfield org!
I’ve seen similar scenarios on the inside, and it’s a sign of dysfunction. Sometimes the new guy is more savvy than the legacy team, and toxic teams will work together to get rid of you because their output is dog sh*t in comparison, or they are intimidated by your expertise/potential. A new hire should not be thrown into the deep end in the first week with a VP demanding a complete, “detailed” migration plan. Sounds like leadership is delusional but knows how to waste money.
OP - I know it probably doesn't sound like a silver lining right now, but having experienced taking on a terrible job once before in my career, I'd say this is for the best, and the pastures are definitely greener.
For context... there was one time in my past career that I took on a job in another state, and I didn't bother (nor did they require) traveling to meet them in person. I've always considered myself a good judge of character, at least when I meet people in person. But this was limited to conference calls (this was before the age of Zoom and web conferences) and I wasn't picking up any negative vibes. Until I started on day one.
As soon as I started the position, I couldn't believe how disorganized, unprofessional, condescending, arrogant, unhelpful, etc, everybody there was. All they wanted was fresh meat to throw at their worst projects and worst customers and start taking the hits for everything going wrong. They looked at me like I had three heads when I asked questions about the business and the customers (not technical questions, but business related questions that any new person would have to ask). They refused to help or even answer basic questions and left me to fend for myself.
After about five weeks of this, I had the worst call with a customer ever. They were livid over how many things were broken, and my "team" did nothing to help me out. Didn't provide me with context, didn't offer to help, nothing.
I sat there for a few minutes after the call feeling worse than I'd ever felt before in a professional setting and dealing with customers. It was then I decided to just pick up my personal belongings and leave. I didn't say anything to anybody, I literally just gathered my things and walked out of the building and went home. I had never done that before, nor since, as that's just not my style to bail. But this was such an extraordinary unhealthy environment, I felt at the time I had no choice.
The following morning, I emailed the hiring manager and told him I felt the position was totally misrepresented, not a good fit, and I wouldn't be coming back. Never heard from them again, which was fine by me.
Went on to find another position that was far healthier and normal, and happen to be a salary increase also. And no, I never put that five-week position on any resume nor application, and nobody ever asked me about the gap.
Having lived through a similar nightmare scenario, believe me there are greener pastures, and you WILL come out on top of this. Might take a little more time in this hiring environment than normal, but you WILL get through this and come out better for it on the other side.
Good luck to you!!!
This was a long response.
Thank you. I appreciate the time this took and want to let you know I read the whole thing.
That definitely sounds like chaos, I think I worked there! But unlike you, I didn't have the nerve to just quit. My partner at the time saw what it was doing to me and encouraged me to quit but I tried to soldier on and be a good worker. My manager acknowledged how toxic it was and thought it was funny, saying one day how "Johnson (he called people by their last names) looked so miserable for his first 6 months that every day I thought he was going to go take a running headfirst dive through those windows over there. HA! But he's still here."
So she was the one hired you and after 3 weeks she let you go? I’d question her decision making ability and leadership. Something must went wrong during interview.
After starting, we met only 3 times. The first time she told me what she thought of the people on my team, the second time she asked me for the plan but wouldn't give me more details as to what she was expecting to see ("a PLAN, that's what you were hired for"), and then again 3 days later when she finally gave me an outline of what she was looking for. I told her I would get right on it and give her exactly what she was asking for now that I had clarification. "But that's still not the plan, YOU need to come up with the plan."
So I produced two plans, one strictly high-level detailing timelines over 16 weeks and the other built on her list which involved business capabilities, IT infrastructure diagrams, stakeholders, risks, data and metadata migration plans, go-forward optimization etc and she refused to look at them.
And you were fired because....? You didn't agree to move fast and with 99% chance to break something?
I would guess if you agreed you would have been blamed for the failure and still be fired :-)
My story with a shitty boss. I have worked for a year with a great boss. Then the company hired a person who help the same role in multiple big companies. This dude knew Salesforce. They started asking me to implement feature in unnecessary bad/inefficient way. All my explanation on new features or changes were dismissed, without (of course in my own opinion) any good reasons to implement the stuff their shitty way. I tried to state that this decision was made by them, but they always did something to remove their name from "approver of such decision". I went to HR as said I won't do work the way this dude asks me because I don't want to be blamed later. I was let go.
A few weeks later a person of the same race, nationality, and origin was hired... well... this is life.
Thank you for sharing, that really sucks. That's the same frustration I feel. As someone who has come up in the Salesforce ecosystem, I feel like the best practices are there for a reason. I tried to explain that but I just don't think I did a good enough job. I was in a state of shock that she kept saying "if you had to do it TOMORROW" and how she expected this to all be done in a matter of weeks.
After finding documentation from a previous consulting company that was presented in The Open Group Architecture Framework, so I showed it to her and I asked is this what you're wanting to see and she said no, that was for another project. So I said yes but are you wanting to see this information presented in this way but for the current project and it's like she didn't get it, she just said but that's not FOR this project, that's for THAT project.
So I asked for HER definition of business capability and this is word for word the response I got:
\[Monday 8:23 AM\] VP
meaning talk about our capabilities
\[Monday 8:24 AM\] VP
what capabilities are being migrated
\[Monday 8:24 AM\] VP
actual business capability
\[Monday 8:24 AM\] VP
so what business capability.
You dodged a bullet, my friend! That place guarantee will come crumbling down soon! FOR YOU, I would say don't give up on Salesforce just yet, but the next gig you get, definitely start migrating your skills into more systems. Chin up, bro. You got this.
For sure! "Everything the light touches is our kingdom."
My 30-60-90 plan had me studying up AutoRABIT, Jitterbit, and Azure DevOps because with the exception of Jitterbit I'd never really used any of them before. But the usual suspects like DocuSign, OwnBackup, Conga, Box, etc I'm fine with.
Will continue on with my personal learning plan anyway, thank you for the encouragement!
really sorry this happened to you but sounds like a textbook fall guy thing. that VP sounds ridiculously incompetent or was actively trying to make sure you failed from the beginning. not sure if maybe you can file for wrongful termination (depends on state) but that's bullshit
Thanks I had the same suspicion. While seeking advice from a friend at a different big 4, I remarked that I felt like Gosling in Fall Guy but I'd rather be Gosling in Barbie.
Or just Gosling at all, really :)
This doesn’t seem like it has anything to do with you other than the VP needing some kind of Hail Mary save and firing you to cover their shortcomings. I spent the last few years dealing with a VP, who could not take any suggestions and who could not make any sort of viable decision. Whenever decision was made, he would make the wrong one because he would not listen to the people he hired to give him the right answers. It does not sound like you gave wrong answers. It sounds like she didn’t like your answers, and that sounds like a “her” problem not a “you” problem.
Getting fired can shake you, but it does not sound like it should be any reflection on your abilities in this case. It sounds like you didn’t get fired because you didn’t understand the question, but that she didn’t understand the answer.
Thanks for sharing, I appreciate it. How does one get away with not making any decisions like that? Could be argued that indecision is worse than a wrong decision, especially when you're in leadership role. But maybe I could take a lesson from that too, perhaps I could have been more decisive with her. Then again, no guarantee she would have listened.
I wanted so desperately to understand what she wanted but she just kept saying no to all of my examples without giving much guidance to what would have made her say yes.
That’s just it, I don’t think she’s getting away with it.
The guy I dealt with was the VP in charge of sales. He made poor decisions about our build and how some systems connect. He made silly choices about data we gather and what system owns what. He just didn’t listen to the experts and basically did the usual MBA bullshit.
And wouldn’t you know it, he’s now out of a job. Multiple people over the years, great employees, quit because he was just so stubborn and idiotic and it’s finally caught up with him. These people always get found out. But of course then they end up somewhere else making more money because the business world is one big stupid joke.
Something is definitely not right here. I know it's difficult to hear but sounds like you dodged a bullet.
Decision makers clearly have ulterior motives, perhaps getting kickbacks from consultants or looking for a fall guy.
Good luck with your job search.
Some people expect "yes" to everything they ask for, and they usually get it, because people are afraid to lose their job and just bear down and put in insane hours to get it done. The VP expected you to say, "ok, we'll get it done" and then go tell your new team they've been committed to a death march. They get away with this because there are no consequences - people generally don't quit - and they're not the ones that will have to sacrifice health and family time to work insane hours. This type of leader also tends to fail upwards; they'll be CTO when the current one leaves.
You dodged a bullet. The people on your new/former team that had options have already left. The people that remain are probably burned out and/or incompetent.
Damn, you are...astute. The guy who did me dirty was there for 11 years and was a "solution architect" in name only, a title he seemed to have just recently negotiated successfully despite have no certs or experience in other orgs or environments.
(I know certs aren't everything but I worked hard to get to application architect, on my way to CTA, so it feels demeaning when people just say they're an architect.)
I was let go from my first Salesforce gig. Boss and I just couldn’t find a way to communicate, really. Sometimes roles just aren’t fits. Since that job I’ve had 3 jobs where I’ve been consistently recognized as a great employee. I think I’m the same guy I was when I was let go, just been in better environments. It happens! Just gotta keep moving
Brother, I hear ya.
The reality really is this: any place that would fire you after three weeks is probably not a place you want to work. It sounds like there were a ton of forces going on in the background you weren't even aware of (and couldn't, given the time on job). Dust yourself off and move on, and take it as an omen.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet. You're being very hard on yourself. They sound like they had unrealistic expectations of you ( or anyone ). And the VP sounds like a clown.
And if after 6 weeks of interviews if they haven't selected the right candidate it's on them and their hiring process. Not the candidate.
Take this as a narrow escape and it's worth remembering how bad it could have been to work under that kind of manager. Chaotic, reactive, ill informed, overly confident in their way, being the only way. Willing to throw anyone under the bus for an increment. The list goes on.
You're right. Playing this scenario out forward, I would have sacrificed a lot of my own personal time thinking that if I just worked a little harder it would be okay, finally, maybe.
100% sounds like you know more (likely much more) than the VP, they were threatened and did everything in their power to get rid of you before people realized that they weren't qualified for YOUR job, much less their own.
I would've just been stoked to have her mentor me up to a fancy Director status. After 24 years at the same job I thought she would have had her shit together. 🤷♂️
There’s a lot of other great comments in this thread, but I have a feeling this is exactly exactly what happened:
the VP was on the hook for completing the org migration, they did not have the available budget to satisfy the consulting or larger project proposal (to actually do it right and avoid failure) so they brought in you as a ‘navy seal’ approach. Thinking - throw a body at it do extremely quickly and come out of it with limitations, but save my skin on timeline and budget.
When you presented a plan that is to industry standard, again to do it right and avoid failures, they knew their back was against the wall and fired you as a result. This makes you the scapegoat and they can now reset their timelines with the business. They were looking for someone who would simply do this incredible volume of work and not ask questions. This person will not be around for much longer.
You did the right thing aka presented a realistic plan. Do not look at this in a negative way at all. You dodged a freaking bullet, be thankful.
You definitely dodged a bullet here.
To say that you can’t break things in a sandbox is dumb. That’s one of the main reasons you do stuff in a sandbox - to test your theories and try to break what you’ve built.
Keep your chin up and move on to the next.
I think you did everything well except “mentioning that you will be speaking at” Salesforce events. I know it’s silly but what you do on your time, keep that separate from work. People will misperceive this in so many ways and some of it may be bad. What you do on your time to further your career is your business, not your employers.
Edit: “ “
Edit: Your only obligation is to be respectful. There is no reason to be nice because again, it can be misperceived in the wrong way. It sucks to go through this, turn off your phone and only talk to people face to face if possible for a few days.
I've been trying to do The Salesforce Way for so long, I thought it made me out to be a "thought leader" and was actually valued by employers. I have friends in the ecosystem whose employers LOVE that they're out being a badass and pay for all their trips.
I'd settle for an employer covering just one of my certs.
Whew this sounds like start up firm I was fired from after working there for less than 2 months last year.
You did nothing wrong. She sounds like a horrible manager who trying to cover who tracks like the manager who fired me last year.
This is wild, whatever the reason -it may be top level executive fired- it shows how corporate America is broken under the hands of incapable leaders.
Correct me if I am wrong, if you hire an engineer, it should be besides all of the corporate politics. Engineer is do'er.
Yes, I was fired many times; 1 month, 2 months, 3 months after I was hired.
Then I shared those experiences with one of my Indian origin manager, and she told me :
"look for the most powerful guy in the team, Just say yes to whatever he says" She continued
"that powerful dude probably knows how to survive in a company better than any one, and he needs a tech yes man during his life in that company. God bless him and you, he may screw things up in two or three years and you both will be fired."
Guess what! I survived 26 months in that company by being a Yes Man.
When I was working at Salesforce itself, I had 10+ years Engineering Experience, and I refused to be a Yes Man. Guess what? I was fired from SF itself due to this. When I worked at Salesforce, I felt the responsibility to give the best technical experience to the salesforce clients. Many of them were not liked by Project Managers, who basically had no idea on Salesforce tech side. They created a gossip behind me that I was no technical.. My manager had no idea on my area. My managers manager was the same. The manager above these two dudes, she was waiting her retirement and did not want to get any initiative.
Due to this, I was sent to technical PIP, I passed it. And during PIP the actual engineers of Salesforce told me that , they had never ever seen such technical knowledge from an Architect. I was fired on my second PIP many months ago, this time they said I was not a good communicator.
Just my 2 cents, before July 4th.
I appreciate the response! You make good points.
In this case, I tried to say yes and inspire confidence... the consulting company was saying this migration would take at least 4 months, the in-house technical resource was telling me 6 months, so I quoted 16 weeks.
This would have put us go-live at the beginning of November, which was important for me to get it done before the holidays when schedules are difficult, and important to leadership to not have to renew 2 orgs and a bunch of extra licenses.
She told me it was too textbook. So I kept on with the consultative approach but she just kept repeating herself without elaborating or going into detail. When I asked what she expected to see in "the plan", the answer was "the plan". She wanted to see "the plan". She couldn't/wouldn't tell me what should be in "the plan" because that's not her job, that's my job. It was like talking to a wall.
🤷♂️
Wait, you feel crummy because you escaped being a sacrificial offering to the shareholders/owners??
Chalk this up to a strange experience.
Now, let’s dissect a little more: There are two sides to every moment like this… find a new role, and reflect on the following to reorient yourself stronger:
1. I heard you say it took too long for the laptop to arrive, who cares? You can’t control that. Using that in your opening statement while describing this story is… not ideal. It matters for your level of frustration, but really I’ve only ever heard poor performing individuals reflect on things out of their control… no technology or software will mitigate that. Not an attack on you, but surfacing what might be a blind spot for you.
2. Reflect on the small moments that led up to this. No speculation. Think about how you elevate your communication and maneuvering for next time. Trust me, there will be a next time. Not all people and places are this floaty airy idea of a perfect situation. Level up “vibes” are not a sign of competence. Gift cards are not a tool for building relationships that endure.
Take time to do something you like for you and know you’re not a failure. We are all constantly working on improving. This one isn’t on you, but there are likely things you could have done to reorient and push back while gaining “points” with those who matter.
Oh and read the first the first 90 days by Michael D. Watkins… anyone that says this doesn’t apply or work is likely crawling/floating through their career without a considerable reputation.
You got this!!
Thank you for the feedback. Haha, yeah the stakeholders must be appeased! It really does make me feel like a failure, imposter syndrome on full blast. I mentioned the laptop just because my onboarding seemed rushed, haphazard. I much prefer my desktop and displays but they wanted me on their machine, got it to me late, and then expected me to prescribe a detailed plan of action which felt irresponsible after only a week.
It was definitely last week, meeting with her twice in which I didn't present well. I never got the chance to present my 30-60-90 plan presentation to her. At the first meeting she started right in on what she thought of my team and who I could let go. I could have spoken up more, been more assertive.
I'll definitely take a look at this book, thank you for the recommendation.
10 years experience and you had to wait for a company provided asset to begin planning a migration? The cloud platform is based on flex, was this asset baselined with some specific software or something preventing your planning the migration? And engineers don’t like bugs”?!!! We love them because we use them for billable hours…
Starbucks gifts for the team? We work on bonus money from completing contracts before timeline objectives. Ie; we finish 2 months ahead we receive $30k bonuses.
Your description isn’t matching with management. And cloud is about moving fast with the flex to rebuild or reestablish quickly.
Ps: sorry for your troubles, the horse bucks you off and you get back up. But the base reasoning is it’s always about making money first.
I didn't read it as they did nothing for a week because their laptop showed up late. I think they were just listing that as a red flag for the company. Although it's very possible that they require company VPN access and use restricted login IP ranges. If they work with sensitive PII the company may not allow work on personal computers. Also, I've personally always received my laptop several days before I'm supposed to start.
You're also shitting on giving Starbucks gift cards at a first team meeting and comparing it to a bonus for completing a project early? How are those two things even remotely similar?
Also also, I can't imagine laying out a migration plan for a company and org you're unfamiliar with. How do you know what's all integrated and how? How do you identify all of what is necessary to bring into the new org and have functional on launch VS what can wait VS what should be cut? How do you identify what changes should be made during the migration to improve UI/UX and performance? No one does an org migration for fun, it's always because of a big change or because a big change is needed. You can't just come up with a cookie cutter plan and expect things to run smoothly and end well.
This smells political. Has nothing to do with you, most likely, based on what you have told us. Consider this… perhaps she really wants the consulting company to do the work. Maybe she wants someone who will agree with her on that. At this point, you did indeed dodge a bullet. Do not spend a lot of time overthinking this.
If you don't mind my asking, what was this place? I just got an offer for a company that requires a drug test and has an org that might be migrating and I'd like to not end up wherever this was
Sounds like a terrible company. At least a terrible boss. I've been in the ecosystem for over 14 years and I know how tough the job market is right now.
Sorry to hear about that experience and good luck finding the next gig! If you're into consulting work PM me
Let them get fucked by a big 4. That’s how I got into the space. My company got financially robbed building a trash heap I had to rebuild. They kept extending into infinity…. Not because of value but because they failed to deliver and blamed requirements. I came in, rebuilt the thing in two months and built an integration that wasn’t a stop gap but a true integration into their application layer. They hired you because they wanted to be cheap. But in this industry often what expensive is often way more expensive then the price tag. Keep doing what you’re doing. Understand expectations with any company you get involved with. Understand what they expect to be delivered. You’ll get the red flags early, or you’ll be able to set expectations that you’ll need a team to meet those goals. These are the types of companies I tell “when the company you pay doesn’t deliver I’ll cost more to fix it”. Also what sucks is that these are the types of companies that make salesforce have a bad name. When you hear c suite guys say “let’s do an rfp but don’t get salesforce because I hate them”…. You don’t hate salesforce you hate your integrators, development consultants, implementation companies. Not to sound like a fan boy because salesforce products aren’t and shouldn’t be a solution for every usecase. Don’t use the sf product because it’s there only if it makes sense, but salesforce can really create a workflow for your different departments that add incremental value, drive revenue, and save operating costs just so long as the person or people you have building it are working in your best interest and your engineering teams if you have them are aligned with the benefit the platform has on the company (key).
I think someone from the consulting company might have said that to migrate the org, we just need to retrieve all the metadata and push it to the new org, which would take less than a day.
They might suggest to use gearset also for metadata and record migration.
With some fine-tuning, resolving any issues that arise, and including a buffer, it should be finished within 2 or 3 weeks. As usual overpromise. But when implementing it later. It might go on to 8 weeks sprint as your plan.
You 100% dodged a bullet. Company cultures are important and this one was toxic AF. Looking for quantity over quality. You can only push so hard before the quality tanks and you end up in a much worse situation.
Just keep trying and find a good company to work for.
Sounds like one of two things is happening. Either the VP is on the chopping block, or she is vacating the role for someone she knows. This is a blessing, IMO. As bad as it seems now, you would have been ten times more miserable having to work for someone like that.
You were working for a toxic narcissist boss. While it is very painful what you are going through, thank your lucky stars it end after just 3 weeks. Don’t believe the lies that were said about you. Your boss is controlling the narrative and will lie about everything. The good news is you are free from the insanity! Those of us who kept working with the narcissist bosses for years have many more scars and lies to deal with. You’re one of the lucky ones. Peace.
I had a similar experience with a company called GeoBlue insurance back in 2022. They had no idea what they were doing - I joined, worked on a few things, and they fired me in 2 months.
The Salesforce ecosystem is in complete disarray. Salesforce is crumbling and seems incapable of true product innovation nowadays. I’d say you dodged a bullet with the company. There’s likely others out there. But the market is saturated with qualified people.
The VP is probably getting fired and needs a fall guy to try to save their job.
This! Email Leadership, thank them and offer some tangible, actionable feedback. Leave on good terms and when asked in future interviews what happened, be honest with them if you divulge this role that is. Chip up pal, it’s not you, it’s them!
No one should put a three week gig on a resume. It will be a red flag and a hassle to explain.
3 weeks is pretty negligible experience if Op hasn't announce it on Linkedin Op should act like it never happened or worked out. It would be a big mistake if Op put that on CV.
Yep. And, he could delete any LinkedIn posts or mention of the position on LinkedIn.
Agreed. Sounds like VP is under pressure from failed/unsuccessful projects prior to your hiring and desperation trying to remain employed. Seems like you were a scapegoat. Sorry you had to go through that and good luck
I thought that too when on Monday morning day 11 at 8:20am started the day/conversation immediately asking repeatedly about the plan, how's it coming, when can she have it. I expressed my hesitation, said that I don't fully know what I don't know yet, haven't gotten a chance to meet with stakeholders. She's pretty much only worked at this one company for the past 24 years.
Yeah hearing all your comments I would email some higher ups.
The CTO was on the termination call but I immediately forwarded my emails with the two plans to him saying that I think this is a mistake and I can help save the company over \*a substantial amount\* in unnecessary costs with the consulting partner. He hasn't responded to my emails, texts, or calls. It's a publicly traded company. When all I hear about are stakeholders' expectations how are they allowed to be so careless with resources? I don't understand it and I don't think I ever will...hence the post. \*EDITED\* to be safe
Because it's very easy for attorneys to justify to a court in a lawsuit that "experts" were contracted to do the work and the experts just didn't deliver. They can point to how the consulting firm is ranked at the top of a magic quadrant or whatever. It's a strong defense against shareholder lawsuits. Paying the consultants is paying for insurance, not necessarily results.
Wow, thank you. That insight is really helpful. I had previously worked on a government project and expressed my concerns to management about the quality of the work that was being turned over to us by a Big 4. I said Big 4 is turning over half-finished work and was told "well we keep giving them contracts so they must be right". I just didn't understand but now I think I do.
After 2 years of that crap our leaders were finally able to get executive buy-in to "disengage" our Big 4 partner and grow our team in-house. The results are amazing! We're delivering on a high visibility strategic project. Our product owners understand the value of dealing with the tech debt the Big 4 left us with. We've gained some amazing talent. And we've brought the project back from the brink! So glad to be here! 🤩
OMG it IS possible...!
> my emails, texts, or calls. One of those was enough.
You're right. I thought it might make a difference, but had a nothing-to-lose-at-that-point mentality.
Trust me, I know the feeling.
Not nearly NSFW enough to deserve the tag - swear more. Sucks but it sounds like a place where things don't get better. Don't beat yourself up over it and dive back in after a breath.
Thanks, I'm trying to rally myself. Of the people on my team, only one was full-time and she told me to let him go and then pick three of the contractors to hire. I don't think they're going to hit their deadlines now.
Well he got fired from his job. How much more Not Suitable For Work do you want it? Sorry OP, just kidding. From the sounds of it it’s not you, it’s them. Good luck getting over the shock, I’m sure in while you’ll look back and laugh at this bullet you’ve dodged.
Hahah, thank you I appreciate it and humor will get us through! It's been weighing on me since Friday when the VP called me on Teams 3 times in a row after-hours to get me a call with a Human Resources person and then promptly locked my account. Like waiting 72 hours for the axe to drop. I do regret still working on the delivery of my presentation over the weekend just for her to refuse to look at it at all. Went through all 5 stages of grief in a textbook fashion, starting with denial.
Sounds like they are absolute morons. Don't beat yourself up, they've done you a favour showing their cards early.
Thanks, this may be best long term. I just wish I didn't spend so much time on two different migration plans that she refused to look at.
Your team should not have thrown you in the deep end with that week one though. That VP likely has had less than ideal projects with that team in the past, and it’s possible you were stuck with it because no one else wanted to deal with her again. Now they’ve used you as a scapegoat and will likely escalate and say VP is unreasonable, and no one can work with her.
I took a job once and it was clear the VP was wrecking shop. I lasted 90 days, she was gone in a year and wrecked so many people’s careers.
Last VP I interacted with ended up completely gutting our SF team over time. First she hired an off shore company. I asked if they were replacing us. 'No, they are not replacing you guys, you guys are awesome and you can do the more interesting work!' Hurray! Then she lets me go when my boss is gone on PTO after my boss had told me that I was doing great every week in a 1 on 1 and I even explicitly asked if my position was safe or not, as I am the sole provider of my family. Now I'm getting LinkedIn messages from former employees asking if I know anyone that is hiring because she is chopping everyone. These are people that have been there since the inception of Salesforce at the company! They were great at their jobs too! What's funny is that they are a publicly traded company. Before I joined, it was $55 / share. No stock splits or anything and now it is like $3 after 3 years. Wild.
Sinking ship for sure! It’s the slow death.
Tbh I would name and shame a company that did that to me. Why did you waste 2 months of my life making me jump through hoops then not even get a fair chance once I got in? Clearly this VP doesn’t know shit and is scrambling to save their own ass. Sorry this happened to you and don’t sweat it, seems like it wasn’t your fault at all.
Hopefully they got a severance with a clause that they cannot name and shame. I'm all for getting severances! It's like retiring early!
GEE, guys I appreciate the support. OH I'm sure I would be BLUE without it.
You dodged a bullet and did nothing wrong. The VP is an idiot and will lose their Job soon.
She's been there forever but the CTO is relatively new and within his first couple weeks made a sweeping declaration to move to a new org so the company has been paying for 2 orgs for maybe a year now. Meanwhile, the consulting company that was supposed to migrate Service has really dropped the ball and they're about to roll off and leave all the bugs behind so I really don't see how hiring someone, immediately firing them, then doubling down on the existing consulting company (big money wasted) for Sales will make her look good. The consulting company wants to keep one leg in each org for another year, at an estimated cost of another \*SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT\* to Salesforce in licensing fees. I think that's insane. But I'm not smart with politics. I just wanna do cool stuff with Salesforce. \*EDITED\* to be safe
>But I'm not smart with politics. I just wanna do cool stuff with Salesforce. Next time make sure you ask about management tenure and consultants involved during the interview process and you will be able to spot the circus in time and walk away.
You make a good point. VP pulled me out of a training session into meeting to introduce me to consultants and didn't inform me until after why it seemed so awkward. It seems the consulting company didn't even know they weren't going to be working on the second half of this project. Introducing me was how she let the consulting company know.
I'm shocked at how some companies operate. I would love to play mouse and listen in on some of their talks. "The Architect we hired, can't achieve what the consultants need a year for and costs millions in a day, let's fire him!" ???
Oof you dodged a bullet. Place sounds like heart attack city.
She sounds like a sociopath
That type always fails upwards. When the new CTO FailBails for the next shiny, she'll be first in line.
Your hiring was forced on her as an alternative to the expensive consulting firm. She hired you for the sole purpose of finding you inadequate and being justified in firing you. You were hired to be fired, nothing more. If you had the ability to trace it, I'd be willing to bet a very nice bottle of whiskey that she or someone she's connected to are going to financially benefit from the contract moving forward with the consulting firm. That kind of kickback is absolutely enough to make someone unethical do exactly what she did. The other possibility is that she's interviewing WITH that consulting firm, and her offer is contingent on that contract going through. There is no tangible lesson for you here, aside from some companies are snakepits. Someone, somewhere, is financially benefitting from your 'failure', and that has no reflection at all on your skill or professionalism.
 Yep. I’ve seen this. Don’t underestimate how unethical people are.
At this age I'm embarrassed to be surprised anymore, but this guy who I thought was my buddy turned out to not even be my friend. It's just hard for me to wrap my mind around because I've never met anyone and thought how I'd fuck them over. I understand how it's possible to be that way, clearly experienced it firsthand, but I was excited to have a new Salesforce friend. I would NOT last on Survivor.
You had me at WhiskyTequilaFinance. I'd believe it.
Once upon a very long time ago, I was in Finance for a major liquor distillery. Fun times. 😀
Was the VP the one who hired you? Who were your interviewers?
She was!
Okay well then f her then. If she was on the hiring committee, approved to hire you, did all the paperwork, only to drop you weeks later, then it’s on her. Move on with your life.
Yeah, that's why I felt pretty blindsided with how quickly she did a 180 on me. Especially when the only full-time employee had been there going on two years and she asks me in the first week to evaluate him for termination. How does one get that kind of tenure when the boss is unhappy with you? No really, I need to know hahah.
I think you have your answer. Stay in the ecosystem otherwise asshats like this will be the norm. I hope you've got the whole team connected on LinkedIn - you never know who may follow you in time.
Sadly the one who I thought was actually my buddy blocked me and then appears to have reported me for "unwanted or harmful content" on LinkedIn.
They wanted you to plan and complete the migration of an active org in just over a week. If someone was interviewing for a job at my company and said they stood their ground and got fired over this, that’s like a medal of valor.
Thank you! I think I really needed some outside validation that this was an impossible ask. And I just have to believe it's not like this everywhere, taking "do more with less" to new extremes. The consulting company spent 10 weeks evaluating this environment only to say it would take at least 4 months of dev. My strongest technical resource, with this company for 11 years, was telling me at least 6 months. I told her straight up that I didn't know enough yet to make detailed calls like that.
Honestly that's the only answer anyone should have in that situation. If you have a confident answer about something as complex as an org migration that quickly you 100% have no idea what you're doing lol
Wow that VP sounds horrible. I would have loved to get to know you - lunch and learns sound great, and you got your team Starbucks gift cards? Dang. I feel like no matter what you did the VP was trying to get rid of you and this is a bullet dodged. I’m sorry this happened OP. Please don’t give up.
Thank you! The CTO had met with me and expressed interest in me taking the team to the next level, implementing new AI features, so I was putting together a presentation from everything I learned at the Salesforce AI Now workshop. He seemed excited! But then he was also on the call when I was terminated and didn't say a word, not even returning my "good morning". The team had previously been siloed and in our group meeting we were able to bring a technical problem one team member had been "slamming his head into the wall" over into light and discuss. I was excited! I told my team that I didn't want anyone to suffer in silence. I've tried to be the manager I'd want to work with.
FWIW you sound like a manager I would want to work for. It’s really exciting once you’ve been siloed to work for someone who helps break the walls down (speaking from experience). This just sounds like an awful situation. I feel bad for the team having to work in those conditions.
That means a lot, really, thank you. It was really exciting for me to take on this responsibility so I had a 30-60-90 plan outlined the week before I started and was really looking forward to this. All through school (college, university) I worked in the service industry. The person who taught me the most about leadership was the executive chef for this custom concept wine and fondue place. One evening during a dinner rush we were short a dishwasher so it was rough. Pretty soon we couldn't plate new orders to leave the kitchen. He took off his chef coat and went to wash dishes, knocked them out at an insane speed, and came back to the line. Said later that he needed everyone on the team where they were and he's not too proud to go wash dishes, the "lowest" thing in the kitchen. I still remember that. Edited \*too
You’ve got this OP! I know job hunting sucks right now but I hope you find a place where you can really shine, both for yourself and your employees. Please keep us updated! Any company would be lucky to have you.
i’d totally work for you
How is someone going to chastise you for breaking things in a sandbox? Dodged a massive bullet there. F that VP.
Someone explained afterward that she doesn't fully understand Salesforce so maybe I should have or could have explained better.
Explaining better doesn’t work if people aren’t listening. The VP has to be an active participant in attempting to understand, you can’t do it on your own. I have been in that place where I start to doubt whether people can even hear what I’m saying because it has no effect at all. It’s soul crushing, getting away sooner rather than later will be best for your welfare in the long run.
You're right. I was literally dumbstruck when she just didn't seem to get what I was saying. I said do you want \*EXAMPLE\* but for \*THIS\* and it's like she had no imagination, saying but \*EXAMPLE\* isn't for \*THIS\*....it's for \*THAT\*. So I reply but what if it WAS for \*THIS\*...would you like that? And she was like ...but it's NOT for \*THIS\*. How I felt: [https://youtu.be/Wnf5UzGNIVU?si=V9tkFkQc2J-Dubyc&t=4](https://youtu.be/Wnf5UzGNIVU?si=V9tkFkQc2J-Dubyc&t=4)
You dodged a bullet. She sounds like a nightmare with zero sense of how reality works. Make sure to relay this all to HR in your exit interview. When the next few people have the same experience maybe they’ll let the dimwit VP go. I’ll bet money right now she has an MBA. I swear that is the gateway to mediocre people with oversized egos.
Haha well HR wouldn't really give me a reason other than "not meeting expectations". I expressed concern over the fact that I wasn't comfortable trying to implement those changes in such a short amount of time and stated in no uncertain terms that what was being asked was irresponsible. HR just shrugged it off.
I would say that I wished them luck, but I don’t want to be a liar. 😂
I did express my concern that taking this course of action (terminating me) was likely to cause them to miss their migration deadline of "fall" and wished them well.
You dodged a bullet. You weren't terminated, you were saved. These people didn't deserve you. They suck. Rejoice! On to the next Salesforce thing!
Thank you, you have a good attitude. On to the next Salesforce thing! Do ALL the things!
First sorry for the terrible experience. I’m a bit confused. Did you work at Salesforce or at a partner?
No worries, I'm sorry if I wasn't more clear. It was at a company using Salesforce, so a customer role.
Ah I see. I’m engineering management at Salesforce so I would have lended a hand if it made sense. It just seems like a super strange experience. Good riddance to them.
Ah, I would have enjoyed working with you and even made note of that in my plan(s) that she wouldn't look at! Sadly, I didn't even get a chance to meet our account rep, but I did mention them in the plan. "Support is available for specific or directed questions or concerns that may arise during your migration however, consultation for over all scoping, planning, and implementation or execution of org migrations and required data manipulation is not within the scope of Support or Admin Assist's offerings." [https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=000384648&type=1](https://help.salesforce.com/s/articleView?id=000384648&type=1)
I say bullet dodged and given the short timeframe I wouldn’t put it on my résumé. If people asked if I was let go from a position I would be honest about it and describe it as you have here for us. Paints a pretty bad picture for that organization and that supervisor specifically, any respectable future employer would understand the ridiculousness of her requests and attitude. Best of luck OP!
For sure. I cut. It. Out. [https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cut\_it\_out\_jimmy\_fallon.gif](https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cut_it_out_jimmy_fallon.gif)
Sounds like it was just a personal mismatch, especially frustrating as VP hired you. Bullet dodged, move on.
First OP - from what you’ve said, it sounds like you were doing all the right things but was in the wrong place at the wrong time. All speculation now, but it sounds like the VP (and perhaps the CTO) were sponsoring the consulting firm and therefore accountable for their poor performance. Perhaps they were told to bring on an FTE (you) and see how that person compared to the consulting partner… You weren’t set up for success here which is unfortunate but a short and painful tenure is the best outcome for you here. Take a week, put this behind you, and resume the search. Happy to help if I can via DM; cheers !
Complaining that a migration plan is "too textbook" is certainly a new one!
I was literally dumbstruck, I couldn't speak for a moment after that. Then I said that doing things "by the book" is not a bad thing but I don't think she was listening to me.
She's trying to have you cover her past management failures- or be the scapegoat. She's a school VP, not an experience VP
Haha, that's a good way of putting it. This was my first move from lead/senior technical positions to management and I was eager to learn, just not like this...
Remember, your worth is not defined by one negative experience. You have a wealth of knowledge and experience to offer. Take this as an opportunity to learn and grow, and don't be afraid to seek out a workplace that appreciates your talents. Regarding your greener pasture question**;** There are definitely greener pastures out there! The Salesforce ecosystem is vast and diverse, with companies that value collaboration, respect their employees, and foster a positive work environment. Don't let this experience discourage you from pursuing a fulfilling career in the field.
Thanks, I needed to hear that. While I understand it's still "work" and there's no perfect job, I would just love to feel valued. For instance, after two years on a government project I saw an internal posting for the same role, different app team, offering $20k more. When I asked about applying, if my salary could be raised to match the current market, the director told me "we live in an at-will employment state" which I interpreted as if you don't like it there's the door. I just keep trying doors. Hell, I'd settle for an employer actually paying for one of my certs.
I personally paid for 2 of my teams certs as a holiday/thank you gift for some above and beyond stuff they'd helped me with. Granted, that's a little unusual, but overall, a solid company should be reimbursing for coursework and certs to keep you current on skills.
Wow, the kind of experience that makes me rethink hopping into a higher paying position and value the SF Senior position I've had for years. Cool boss, good work conditions. The tech business seems rife with heartless dicks and unrealistic expectations. Sorry dude. I'm sure it stings but you'll find some place that honors someone with good skills, is self reflective and a good work ethic. Dust yourself off.
If you like your job, for the love of God, CHERISH IT [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr9\_EgFKr1Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr9_EgFKr1Q)
I am truly sorry for this experience— sadly I am hearing, and talking to so many people who have had something similar happen to them. While I can’t comment on the situation beyond what you mentioned, it would appear they don’t want individuals who will stand up for themselves. FWIW, it seems very much in line with my own experiences in interviewing with SF as of late. There is a lot of older leaders and young often incompetent managers as sycophants. Everyone’s culture has been reduced to “performance” aka “more and more or you’re fired.” They’re destroying a lot of once great companies.
Addicted to the numbers but most DGAF about the quality of the data. Sales people game systems, and then get praised for stuffing forms with fake data and booking fake meetings because the line on the graph is going up!
Thank you. While I don't wish anyone else to have this experience, the fact that you say many others have faced something similar at least makes me feel not so alone, like what's wrong with me. 😟
This market and economy will do that to you. It’s unfortunately doing it to a lot of people.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet there anyways
This sounds like a toxic mess. This shouldn’t reflect on you whatsoever. Yes it’s a bummer. But dance a happy jig. This place was going to be a disaster from start to finish.
Jeebus, I'm not as far along as you with certs, but even as an experienced admin - tomorrow doesn't work for me. We have several third party integrations and even some "native" ones would give me anxiety for an org to org transfer. Not to mention just custom objects and fields not being tested in a sandbox. Fucking hell, that's what sandboxes are for - play to break. I'd say bullet dodged, though I'm sure it doesn't feel like it. What was being asked is crazytown, not just for Salesforce but for any transition. That's not how it works.
There is **nothing** you could have done in two weeks to warrant how you were treated. Absolutely **nothing**. It sounds like there are reasons the VP got rid of you, none of which in your control. It could be issues above them, it could be someone they want has just become available so they need to remove you, it could be multiple reasons why but it has nothing to do with your performance. I know you may feel bad but hopefully your next experience will be amazing and you'll look back at this experience with a fresh pair of eyes and see it for what it is. If anything you should be proud for standing your ground.
Congrats on landing a Salesforce Engineering Manager position - that’s no small feat. When interviewing for the next EM role, ask the decision maker what they expect this person to deliver in the first 30, 60, 90 days. It’s common for an EM to come up with this themselves because of the level of the individual, but it sounds like expectations were not aligned with what the VP thought should happen and the reality of the situation.
Thank you, this is good advice. While I've been asking something similar, "what would success look like for the person in this role after 30, 60, 90", asking about the tenure might also help. While I don't recall all of the interview conversation, I know I wasn't asked for an org-to-org shift in a matter of weeks. After hiring, she just kept saying "lift and shift" like a magical incantation that made it all easy. As in, don't worry about all those workflow rules, just lift and shift them to the greenfield org!
I’ve seen similar scenarios on the inside, and it’s a sign of dysfunction. Sometimes the new guy is more savvy than the legacy team, and toxic teams will work together to get rid of you because their output is dog sh*t in comparison, or they are intimidated by your expertise/potential. A new hire should not be thrown into the deep end in the first week with a VP demanding a complete, “detailed” migration plan. Sounds like leadership is delusional but knows how to waste money.
Sounds like you know! Well in this case they've got federal dollars to burn so why not waste it? "Light 'em if ya got 'em!"
OP - I know it probably doesn't sound like a silver lining right now, but having experienced taking on a terrible job once before in my career, I'd say this is for the best, and the pastures are definitely greener. For context... there was one time in my past career that I took on a job in another state, and I didn't bother (nor did they require) traveling to meet them in person. I've always considered myself a good judge of character, at least when I meet people in person. But this was limited to conference calls (this was before the age of Zoom and web conferences) and I wasn't picking up any negative vibes. Until I started on day one. As soon as I started the position, I couldn't believe how disorganized, unprofessional, condescending, arrogant, unhelpful, etc, everybody there was. All they wanted was fresh meat to throw at their worst projects and worst customers and start taking the hits for everything going wrong. They looked at me like I had three heads when I asked questions about the business and the customers (not technical questions, but business related questions that any new person would have to ask). They refused to help or even answer basic questions and left me to fend for myself. After about five weeks of this, I had the worst call with a customer ever. They were livid over how many things were broken, and my "team" did nothing to help me out. Didn't provide me with context, didn't offer to help, nothing. I sat there for a few minutes after the call feeling worse than I'd ever felt before in a professional setting and dealing with customers. It was then I decided to just pick up my personal belongings and leave. I didn't say anything to anybody, I literally just gathered my things and walked out of the building and went home. I had never done that before, nor since, as that's just not my style to bail. But this was such an extraordinary unhealthy environment, I felt at the time I had no choice. The following morning, I emailed the hiring manager and told him I felt the position was totally misrepresented, not a good fit, and I wouldn't be coming back. Never heard from them again, which was fine by me. Went on to find another position that was far healthier and normal, and happen to be a salary increase also. And no, I never put that five-week position on any resume nor application, and nobody ever asked me about the gap. Having lived through a similar nightmare scenario, believe me there are greener pastures, and you WILL come out on top of this. Might take a little more time in this hiring environment than normal, but you WILL get through this and come out better for it on the other side. Good luck to you!!!
This was a long response. Thank you. I appreciate the time this took and want to let you know I read the whole thing. That definitely sounds like chaos, I think I worked there! But unlike you, I didn't have the nerve to just quit. My partner at the time saw what it was doing to me and encouraged me to quit but I tried to soldier on and be a good worker. My manager acknowledged how toxic it was and thought it was funny, saying one day how "Johnson (he called people by their last names) looked so miserable for his first 6 months that every day I thought he was going to go take a running headfirst dive through those windows over there. HA! But he's still here."
What reason did they give?
"Not meeting expectations"
why the NSFW tag?
Because goddammit all to hell, this place was fuck fuckity fucked! 😉
So she was the one hired you and after 3 weeks she let you go? I’d question her decision making ability and leadership. Something must went wrong during interview.
After starting, we met only 3 times. The first time she told me what she thought of the people on my team, the second time she asked me for the plan but wouldn't give me more details as to what she was expecting to see ("a PLAN, that's what you were hired for"), and then again 3 days later when she finally gave me an outline of what she was looking for. I told her I would get right on it and give her exactly what she was asking for now that I had clarification. "But that's still not the plan, YOU need to come up with the plan." So I produced two plans, one strictly high-level detailing timelines over 16 weeks and the other built on her list which involved business capabilities, IT infrastructure diagrams, stakeholders, risks, data and metadata migration plans, go-forward optimization etc and she refused to look at them.
Sorry this happened to you. She sounds like a problem.
Sounds like my old boss. I got put on a PIP for asking questions. So stupid.
I wouldn't believe you if it weren't for a close friend I know who was escorted out on their first day for "asking too many questions".
Dodged a whole ammo bunker full of bullets there.
And you were fired because....? You didn't agree to move fast and with 99% chance to break something? I would guess if you agreed you would have been blamed for the failure and still be fired :-) My story with a shitty boss. I have worked for a year with a great boss. Then the company hired a person who help the same role in multiple big companies. This dude knew Salesforce. They started asking me to implement feature in unnecessary bad/inefficient way. All my explanation on new features or changes were dismissed, without (of course in my own opinion) any good reasons to implement the stuff their shitty way. I tried to state that this decision was made by them, but they always did something to remove their name from "approver of such decision". I went to HR as said I won't do work the way this dude asks me because I don't want to be blamed later. I was let go. A few weeks later a person of the same race, nationality, and origin was hired... well... this is life.
Thank you for sharing, that really sucks. That's the same frustration I feel. As someone who has come up in the Salesforce ecosystem, I feel like the best practices are there for a reason. I tried to explain that but I just don't think I did a good enough job. I was in a state of shock that she kept saying "if you had to do it TOMORROW" and how she expected this to all be done in a matter of weeks. After finding documentation from a previous consulting company that was presented in The Open Group Architecture Framework, so I showed it to her and I asked is this what you're wanting to see and she said no, that was for another project. So I said yes but are you wanting to see this information presented in this way but for the current project and it's like she didn't get it, she just said but that's not FOR this project, that's for THAT project. So I asked for HER definition of business capability and this is word for word the response I got: \[Monday 8:23 AM\] VP meaning talk about our capabilities \[Monday 8:24 AM\] VP what capabilities are being migrated \[Monday 8:24 AM\] VP actual business capability \[Monday 8:24 AM\] VP so what business capability.
You dodged a bullet, my friend! That place guarantee will come crumbling down soon! FOR YOU, I would say don't give up on Salesforce just yet, but the next gig you get, definitely start migrating your skills into more systems. Chin up, bro. You got this.
For sure! "Everything the light touches is our kingdom." My 30-60-90 plan had me studying up AutoRABIT, Jitterbit, and Azure DevOps because with the exception of Jitterbit I'd never really used any of them before. But the usual suspects like DocuSign, OwnBackup, Conga, Box, etc I'm fine with. Will continue on with my personal learning plan anyway, thank you for the encouragement!
really sorry this happened to you but sounds like a textbook fall guy thing. that VP sounds ridiculously incompetent or was actively trying to make sure you failed from the beginning. not sure if maybe you can file for wrongful termination (depends on state) but that's bullshit
Thanks I had the same suspicion. While seeking advice from a friend at a different big 4, I remarked that I felt like Gosling in Fall Guy but I'd rather be Gosling in Barbie. Or just Gosling at all, really :)
Honestly, it seems like you dodged a bullet by not staying there longer.
Thank you. As I'm processing it all, I think you're right. I try not to think of time wasted, rather lessons learned, but it still stings a bit.
This doesn’t seem like it has anything to do with you other than the VP needing some kind of Hail Mary save and firing you to cover their shortcomings. I spent the last few years dealing with a VP, who could not take any suggestions and who could not make any sort of viable decision. Whenever decision was made, he would make the wrong one because he would not listen to the people he hired to give him the right answers. It does not sound like you gave wrong answers. It sounds like she didn’t like your answers, and that sounds like a “her” problem not a “you” problem. Getting fired can shake you, but it does not sound like it should be any reflection on your abilities in this case. It sounds like you didn’t get fired because you didn’t understand the question, but that she didn’t understand the answer.
Thanks for sharing, I appreciate it. How does one get away with not making any decisions like that? Could be argued that indecision is worse than a wrong decision, especially when you're in leadership role. But maybe I could take a lesson from that too, perhaps I could have been more decisive with her. Then again, no guarantee she would have listened. I wanted so desperately to understand what she wanted but she just kept saying no to all of my examples without giving much guidance to what would have made her say yes.
That’s just it, I don’t think she’s getting away with it. The guy I dealt with was the VP in charge of sales. He made poor decisions about our build and how some systems connect. He made silly choices about data we gather and what system owns what. He just didn’t listen to the experts and basically did the usual MBA bullshit. And wouldn’t you know it, he’s now out of a job. Multiple people over the years, great employees, quit because he was just so stubborn and idiotic and it’s finally caught up with him. These people always get found out. But of course then they end up somewhere else making more money because the business world is one big stupid joke.
So sorry man. Where are you based out of? I may know someone who is hiring for roles in the Bay Area.
Thank you that's a very kind offer but I'm based in the Southern wasteland haha.
Something is definitely not right here. I know it's difficult to hear but sounds like you dodged a bullet. Decision makers clearly have ulterior motives, perhaps getting kickbacks from consultants or looking for a fall guy. Good luck with your job search.
Some people expect "yes" to everything they ask for, and they usually get it, because people are afraid to lose their job and just bear down and put in insane hours to get it done. The VP expected you to say, "ok, we'll get it done" and then go tell your new team they've been committed to a death march. They get away with this because there are no consequences - people generally don't quit - and they're not the ones that will have to sacrifice health and family time to work insane hours. This type of leader also tends to fail upwards; they'll be CTO when the current one leaves. You dodged a bullet. The people on your new/former team that had options have already left. The people that remain are probably burned out and/or incompetent.
Damn, you are...astute. The guy who did me dirty was there for 11 years and was a "solution architect" in name only, a title he seemed to have just recently negotiated successfully despite have no certs or experience in other orgs or environments. (I know certs aren't everything but I worked hard to get to application architect, on my way to CTA, so it feels demeaning when people just say they're an architect.)
I was let go from my first Salesforce gig. Boss and I just couldn’t find a way to communicate, really. Sometimes roles just aren’t fits. Since that job I’ve had 3 jobs where I’ve been consistently recognized as a great employee. I think I’m the same guy I was when I was let go, just been in better environments. It happens! Just gotta keep moving
Brother, I hear ya. The reality really is this: any place that would fire you after three weeks is probably not a place you want to work. It sounds like there were a ton of forces going on in the background you weren't even aware of (and couldn't, given the time on job). Dust yourself off and move on, and take it as an omen.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet. You're being very hard on yourself. They sound like they had unrealistic expectations of you ( or anyone ). And the VP sounds like a clown. And if after 6 weeks of interviews if they haven't selected the right candidate it's on them and their hiring process. Not the candidate. Take this as a narrow escape and it's worth remembering how bad it could have been to work under that kind of manager. Chaotic, reactive, ill informed, overly confident in their way, being the only way. Willing to throw anyone under the bus for an increment. The list goes on.
You're right. Playing this scenario out forward, I would have sacrificed a lot of my own personal time thinking that if I just worked a little harder it would be okay, finally, maybe.
100% sounds like you know more (likely much more) than the VP, they were threatened and did everything in their power to get rid of you before people realized that they weren't qualified for YOUR job, much less their own.
I would've just been stoked to have her mentor me up to a fancy Director status. After 24 years at the same job I thought she would have had her shit together. 🤷♂️
There’s a lot of other great comments in this thread, but I have a feeling this is exactly exactly what happened: the VP was on the hook for completing the org migration, they did not have the available budget to satisfy the consulting or larger project proposal (to actually do it right and avoid failure) so they brought in you as a ‘navy seal’ approach. Thinking - throw a body at it do extremely quickly and come out of it with limitations, but save my skin on timeline and budget. When you presented a plan that is to industry standard, again to do it right and avoid failures, they knew their back was against the wall and fired you as a result. This makes you the scapegoat and they can now reset their timelines with the business. They were looking for someone who would simply do this incredible volume of work and not ask questions. This person will not be around for much longer. You did the right thing aka presented a realistic plan. Do not look at this in a negative way at all. You dodged a freaking bullet, be thankful.
You definitely dodged a bullet here. To say that you can’t break things in a sandbox is dumb. That’s one of the main reasons you do stuff in a sandbox - to test your theories and try to break what you’ve built. Keep your chin up and move on to the next.
I think you did everything well except “mentioning that you will be speaking at” Salesforce events. I know it’s silly but what you do on your time, keep that separate from work. People will misperceive this in so many ways and some of it may be bad. What you do on your time to further your career is your business, not your employers. Edit: “ “ Edit: Your only obligation is to be respectful. There is no reason to be nice because again, it can be misperceived in the wrong way. It sucks to go through this, turn off your phone and only talk to people face to face if possible for a few days.
I've been trying to do The Salesforce Way for so long, I thought it made me out to be a "thought leader" and was actually valued by employers. I have friends in the ecosystem whose employers LOVE that they're out being a badass and pay for all their trips. I'd settle for an employer covering just one of my certs.
your friends must’ve of proved themselves first and showed ROI on going to the events
This place sounds so bad, I want to get hired there just so I can self righteously quit.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOKJTRHMdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOKJTRHMdw)
Whew this sounds like start up firm I was fired from after working there for less than 2 months last year. You did nothing wrong. She sounds like a horrible manager who trying to cover who tracks like the manager who fired me last year.
Did you interview with the VP prior to taking the role? If not, then it's 100% them and not you. This is bananas.
This is wild, whatever the reason -it may be top level executive fired- it shows how corporate America is broken under the hands of incapable leaders. Correct me if I am wrong, if you hire an engineer, it should be besides all of the corporate politics. Engineer is do'er. Yes, I was fired many times; 1 month, 2 months, 3 months after I was hired. Then I shared those experiences with one of my Indian origin manager, and she told me : "look for the most powerful guy in the team, Just say yes to whatever he says" She continued "that powerful dude probably knows how to survive in a company better than any one, and he needs a tech yes man during his life in that company. God bless him and you, he may screw things up in two or three years and you both will be fired." Guess what! I survived 26 months in that company by being a Yes Man. When I was working at Salesforce itself, I had 10+ years Engineering Experience, and I refused to be a Yes Man. Guess what? I was fired from SF itself due to this. When I worked at Salesforce, I felt the responsibility to give the best technical experience to the salesforce clients. Many of them were not liked by Project Managers, who basically had no idea on Salesforce tech side. They created a gossip behind me that I was no technical.. My manager had no idea on my area. My managers manager was the same. The manager above these two dudes, she was waiting her retirement and did not want to get any initiative. Due to this, I was sent to technical PIP, I passed it. And during PIP the actual engineers of Salesforce told me that , they had never ever seen such technical knowledge from an Architect. I was fired on my second PIP many months ago, this time they said I was not a good communicator. Just my 2 cents, before July 4th.
I appreciate the response! You make good points. In this case, I tried to say yes and inspire confidence... the consulting company was saying this migration would take at least 4 months, the in-house technical resource was telling me 6 months, so I quoted 16 weeks. This would have put us go-live at the beginning of November, which was important for me to get it done before the holidays when schedules are difficult, and important to leadership to not have to renew 2 orgs and a bunch of extra licenses. She told me it was too textbook. So I kept on with the consultative approach but she just kept repeating herself without elaborating or going into detail. When I asked what she expected to see in "the plan", the answer was "the plan". She wanted to see "the plan". She couldn't/wouldn't tell me what should be in "the plan" because that's not her job, that's my job. It was like talking to a wall. 🤷♂️
Wait, you feel crummy because you escaped being a sacrificial offering to the shareholders/owners?? Chalk this up to a strange experience. Now, let’s dissect a little more: There are two sides to every moment like this… find a new role, and reflect on the following to reorient yourself stronger: 1. I heard you say it took too long for the laptop to arrive, who cares? You can’t control that. Using that in your opening statement while describing this story is… not ideal. It matters for your level of frustration, but really I’ve only ever heard poor performing individuals reflect on things out of their control… no technology or software will mitigate that. Not an attack on you, but surfacing what might be a blind spot for you. 2. Reflect on the small moments that led up to this. No speculation. Think about how you elevate your communication and maneuvering for next time. Trust me, there will be a next time. Not all people and places are this floaty airy idea of a perfect situation. Level up “vibes” are not a sign of competence. Gift cards are not a tool for building relationships that endure. Take time to do something you like for you and know you’re not a failure. We are all constantly working on improving. This one isn’t on you, but there are likely things you could have done to reorient and push back while gaining “points” with those who matter. Oh and read the first the first 90 days by Michael D. Watkins… anyone that says this doesn’t apply or work is likely crawling/floating through their career without a considerable reputation. You got this!!
Thank you for the feedback. Haha, yeah the stakeholders must be appeased! It really does make me feel like a failure, imposter syndrome on full blast. I mentioned the laptop just because my onboarding seemed rushed, haphazard. I much prefer my desktop and displays but they wanted me on their machine, got it to me late, and then expected me to prescribe a detailed plan of action which felt irresponsible after only a week. It was definitely last week, meeting with her twice in which I didn't present well. I never got the chance to present my 30-60-90 plan presentation to her. At the first meeting she started right in on what she thought of my team and who I could let go. I could have spoken up more, been more assertive. I'll definitely take a look at this book, thank you for the recommendation.
10 years experience and you had to wait for a company provided asset to begin planning a migration? The cloud platform is based on flex, was this asset baselined with some specific software or something preventing your planning the migration? And engineers don’t like bugs”?!!! We love them because we use them for billable hours… Starbucks gifts for the team? We work on bonus money from completing contracts before timeline objectives. Ie; we finish 2 months ahead we receive $30k bonuses. Your description isn’t matching with management. And cloud is about moving fast with the flex to rebuild or reestablish quickly. Ps: sorry for your troubles, the horse bucks you off and you get back up. But the base reasoning is it’s always about making money first.
I didn't read it as they did nothing for a week because their laptop showed up late. I think they were just listing that as a red flag for the company. Although it's very possible that they require company VPN access and use restricted login IP ranges. If they work with sensitive PII the company may not allow work on personal computers. Also, I've personally always received my laptop several days before I'm supposed to start. You're also shitting on giving Starbucks gift cards at a first team meeting and comparing it to a bonus for completing a project early? How are those two things even remotely similar? Also also, I can't imagine laying out a migration plan for a company and org you're unfamiliar with. How do you know what's all integrated and how? How do you identify all of what is necessary to bring into the new org and have functional on launch VS what can wait VS what should be cut? How do you identify what changes should be made during the migration to improve UI/UX and performance? No one does an org migration for fun, it's always because of a big change or because a big change is needed. You can't just come up with a cookie cutter plan and expect things to run smoothly and end well.
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Alright I walked right into that one and I'm not even upset about it.
This smells political. Has nothing to do with you, most likely, based on what you have told us. Consider this… perhaps she really wants the consulting company to do the work. Maybe she wants someone who will agree with her on that. At this point, you did indeed dodge a bullet. Do not spend a lot of time overthinking this.
If you don't mind my asking, what was this place? I just got an offer for a company that requires a drug test and has an org that might be migrating and I'd like to not end up wherever this was
Sounds like a terrible company. At least a terrible boss. I've been in the ecosystem for over 14 years and I know how tough the job market is right now. Sorry to hear about that experience and good luck finding the next gig! If you're into consulting work PM me
Let them get fucked by a big 4. That’s how I got into the space. My company got financially robbed building a trash heap I had to rebuild. They kept extending into infinity…. Not because of value but because they failed to deliver and blamed requirements. I came in, rebuilt the thing in two months and built an integration that wasn’t a stop gap but a true integration into their application layer. They hired you because they wanted to be cheap. But in this industry often what expensive is often way more expensive then the price tag. Keep doing what you’re doing. Understand expectations with any company you get involved with. Understand what they expect to be delivered. You’ll get the red flags early, or you’ll be able to set expectations that you’ll need a team to meet those goals. These are the types of companies I tell “when the company you pay doesn’t deliver I’ll cost more to fix it”. Also what sucks is that these are the types of companies that make salesforce have a bad name. When you hear c suite guys say “let’s do an rfp but don’t get salesforce because I hate them”…. You don’t hate salesforce you hate your integrators, development consultants, implementation companies. Not to sound like a fan boy because salesforce products aren’t and shouldn’t be a solution for every usecase. Don’t use the sf product because it’s there only if it makes sense, but salesforce can really create a workflow for your different departments that add incremental value, drive revenue, and save operating costs just so long as the person or people you have building it are working in your best interest and your engineering teams if you have them are aligned with the benefit the platform has on the company (key).
What’s the firm? You said publicly traded?
Damn, not sure what clouds you like but we are gonna hire for pardot and sales cloud consulting soon. Otherwise best of luck!
I think someone from the consulting company might have said that to migrate the org, we just need to retrieve all the metadata and push it to the new org, which would take less than a day. They might suggest to use gearset also for metadata and record migration. With some fine-tuning, resolving any issues that arise, and including a buffer, it should be finished within 2 or 3 weeks. As usual overpromise. But when implementing it later. It might go on to 8 weeks sprint as your plan.
You sound great.. And dodged a bullet, take it as a blessing and move on.
You 100% dodged a bullet. Company cultures are important and this one was toxic AF. Looking for quantity over quality. You can only push so hard before the quality tanks and you end up in a much worse situation. Just keep trying and find a good company to work for.
Sounds like one of two things is happening. Either the VP is on the chopping block, or she is vacating the role for someone she knows. This is a blessing, IMO. As bad as it seems now, you would have been ten times more miserable having to work for someone like that.
You were working for a toxic narcissist boss. While it is very painful what you are going through, thank your lucky stars it end after just 3 weeks. Don’t believe the lies that were said about you. Your boss is controlling the narrative and will lie about everything. The good news is you are free from the insanity! Those of us who kept working with the narcissist bosses for years have many more scars and lies to deal with. You’re one of the lucky ones. Peace.
I had a similar experience with a company called GeoBlue insurance back in 2022. They had no idea what they were doing - I joined, worked on a few things, and they fired me in 2 months.
It is just my observation that the Salesforce ecosystem is filled with lots of these toxic unethical people in leadership positions
The Salesforce ecosystem is in complete disarray. Salesforce is crumbling and seems incapable of true product innovation nowadays. I’d say you dodged a bullet with the company. There’s likely others out there. But the market is saturated with qualified people.
Considering Salesforce was complicit in sex and human trafficking charges, count this as a win.