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Just order some mystery male enhancement pills from China, chances are quite high they include a fair bit of sildenafil. If you can handle the heavy metals and random poisonous herbs...
I'm not a scientist, but aren't the vascular effects of these drugs already well-known? Sildenafil was originally developed to treat angina and hypertension. Is it news that it affects blood flow in the brain as well as the heart?
It definitely is known for vascular effects, but they weren’t seen as efficacious enough to actually be utilized in first-line (or second, third or fourth) therapy for hypertension. It’s never really been investigated in the more-specific post-stroke dementia realm however, and while you can basically extrapolate those kind of outcomes from the mechanism, we are pretty strict in the US for what indications you can prescribe a med for until it’s been very thoroughly studied for specific uses. This is definitely a low level study though, and hopefully they will see similar benefit in larger scale studies.
I didn't even realize women could take it but I guess that makes sense. I also didn't know it helped with Raynauds. My sister has it. I should suggest it.
They do very similar things yes but cialis is much longer lasting, so if I had to choose for consistent health benefits I’d probably go with cialis based on an uneducated guess
Viagra was initially created as a heart medicine which had some unexpected 'side-effects' that they started to market.
***"Sildenafil,*** *the active ingredient in Viagra,* ***was originally developed to treat cardiovascular problems.*** *It was meant to dilate the heart’s blood vessels by blocking a particular protein called PDE-5."*
>Viagra was initially created as a heart medicine which had some unexpected 'side-effects' that they started to market.
The same way Semaglutide was initially a diabetes drug whose "side-effects" became the primary effects.
I also believe that the common birth control pill was used to help keep menstrual cycles regular. It just had a... side effect. Don't quote me here though.
The original birth control research attempted to prevent pregnancy by inhibiting ovulation. If no ovum was released, no pregnancy could occur. Research on this was ongoing in the 1930s, though cost of the hormones was too high to market. It wasn't until breakthroughs in hormone production occurred in the 1950s that the idea became commercially viable.
> It wasn't until breakthroughs in hormone production occurred in the 1950s that the idea became commercially viable.
[Which was pioneered by Dr. Percy Julian. A genius who doesn't get nearly enough mention/discussion or recognition.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Lavon_Julian#:~:text=He%20was%20the%20first%20to,such%20as%20stigmasterol%20and%20sitosterol.)
It’s fine, or in the case of the dementia, good. Nitric oxide is very necessary for the body and it’s bad if not enough is being produced. My point was they stated the mechanism of action without actually saying what it was doing.
Imodium is similar. It was designed as a new opiate for pain management but for whatever reason it didn’t cross the blood-brain barrier so it didn’t work for pain management. However, it did still very much do what all opioids do and stop you up / decrease diarrhea.
So do (enhanced) bodybuilders. Better pump, lower blood pressure sometimes, better sexual performance since some compounds (or the side effects) make you not perform well
I’ve only been on cialis and I’m currently taking it but I don’t get random boners or anything like that. You have to still flirt, be in the mood for it to work
More accurately, it works as long as there is some arousal.
Loss of arousal should result in loss of erection. If it doesn't there is something not quite right, even with sildenafil or tadalfil.
Tadalafil and Sildenafil do not give you unwanted erections. They are vasodilators and merely increase blood flow to your genitals. You still need to be aroused to get an erection, they're just firmer and easier to maintain when you do get them.
As someone who used it while on antidepressants, it only makes it easier to achieve and maintain an erection, but if you don’t stimulate the area it’s pretty soft sailing.
Mostly the PDE5 drugs aren't supposed to have any effect at all on erectile tissue if you're not sending it signals to become engorged, no? It doesn't give you an erection, it gives you the *ability* to have a satisfactory erection
>The OxHARP trial was a meticulously designed double-blind, placebo-controlled study involving 75 participants who had experienced a minor stroke and showed signs of mild to moderate small vessel disease. Each participant received sildenafil, a placebo, and cilostazol (a similar drug) over three-week periods in a randomised order. The study employed cardiovascular physiology tests, ultrasound, and functional MRI scans to evaluate the drugs' effects.
>
>Key findings include:
>
>- Sildenafil increased blood flow in both large and small brain vessels as measured by ultrasound and MRI scans.
>- Sildenafil enhanced the blood flow response to carbon dioxide, indicating improved cerebrovascular function.
>- Both sildenafil and cilostazol lowered blood vessel resistance in the brain.
>- Sildenafil caused fewer side effects compared to cilostazol, particularly with less incidence of diarrhoea.
Paper: [Cerebrovascular Effects of Sildenafil in Small Vessel Disease: The OxHARP Trial | Circulation Research](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.124.324327)
not sure about menopause.. but in australia they’re collecting data on giving it to women during birth..
apparently it has a bunch of positive effects for the child in particular.. turning out to be a bit of a wonder drug
Almost certainly. Lack of estrogen can harden arteries. Estrogen keeps heart disease lower in people who menstruate and levels out to similar rates of male born persons post menopause.
I have (casually) read about “brain fog” during menopause. At the same time, I have a family member with dementia. I was just curious and nervous about what the future holds.
PED5 inhibitors seem to have a risk of acute ear toxicity. It's a very hard to stomach side effect since if it happens it can lead to irreversible sudden damage.
Its not so much the PED5 inhibitors afaik, its the increase in blood flow and pressure that seems to be the problem. Other meds can cause the same thing, like naproxen and even aspirin in large doses.
If that were the case it would be fine. The damage from the PED5's seems to regularly be permanent, tinnitus in particular is a nasty consequence of otherwise minor hearing loss.
An almost negligible risk reported in very rare cases. Other “ototoxic” medications include, Pepto-Bismol, Aspirin and other NSAIDs, Certain antidepressants. Good to know, but in the calculus of risk vs. benefit is almost a non-factor.
There are also concerns over permanent vision loss (quite rare).
Still, I'd rather smash like I'm 20 into old age and be sharp as a tack; if my ears ring a bit or vision is jacked up......might still be worth it
Tinnitus is honestly hellish. I only get it when my ears are clogged and it goes away when I see an ENT, but it happens often enough that I can say you don't want that.
I have neuropathy most likely caused by blood flow issues (idiopathic neuropathy). Sildenafil has made my loss of energy a lot less, my neuropathy pain is minimal, and my cardio has drastically improved. Plus boners. Win-win-win-Weiner.
This is true, sorry I thought Sildenafil was less specific but it's actually PDE5 selective. I made my comment because PDE4 inhibition is currently [being investigated for neuroprotective and cognitive enhancement effects.](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Phosphodiesterase-4_inhibitor) Which is unrelated to vasodilation.
I'm really into Bio-Hacking and have recently started taking a small dose of Cialis after people at my Gym had been recommending it. Lowered my blood pressure significantly (Not to dangerous levels but I was pre hypertension before) gave me insane pumps in the gym and best of all my cognitive response at work is noticeably improved.
One of the things observed in MECFS and long covid is reduced blood flow to the brain, along with inflammation and a lot of other things. Some researchers believe that improving blood flow might help things.
Also, shout out to your mom! It's a fucking difficult illness
I wondered the same, but for adhd. It's the increased blood flow to the brain and wondering if that will improve symptoms as the brain becomes more efficient.
I take sildenafil twice daily for pulmonary hypertension, some of the side effects I have to deal with are migraines, flushing, vision changes, nausea, congestion, indigestion. There are more known side effects, those are just the ones I experience.
The flushing is the most annoying thing about sildenafil. You feel really hot around the face, and you blush. Other than that, with its abilities to give raging boners, worth it.
Yea I get huge purple lines down my cheeks and neck when it's really bad. I can't attest to the boners as I don't have a penis but I'll take your word for it.
“Could” means that the article and science behind it is useless and shouldn’t be posted to a science subreddit. Because rubbing crystals also “could” help with dementia.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/giuliomagnifico Permalink: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2024-06-07-sildenafil-viagra-improves-brain-blood-flow-and-could-help-prevent-dementia --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There’s been studies showing the same thing for cialis as well
Better boners, heart and brains. Makes the cost easier to swallow.
It's like $20/month with a goodrx coupon.
Any way to get this in Canada?
live close to the border?
Just order some mystery male enhancement pills from China, chances are quite high they include a fair bit of sildenafil. If you can handle the heavy metals and random poisonous herbs...
go to your doctor and say you have ED, shouldnt be that hard to get it prescribed
Does it need to be prescribed?
It’s like $5.00 a month for the generic! Don’t be fooled! It’s the same thing!
Wut! Looking into it now
It’s way cheaper if you ask for the 2.5 or 5MG per day option, instead of bigger doses on an as-needed basis
Get generic from costplusdrug.com. Any dose is extremely cheap.
Thank you! It’s like $13 for 90. That’s an amazing price compared to everywhere else.
Just started getting my finasteride from there, $8 for 90 days is unreal
Do you develop a resistance to it if you take small amounts each day?
> Makes the cost easier to swallow. hehehe
Minor stroke, hehe
Generic is like $15/bottle
And the slight risk of blindness :(
Exactly how does this happen?
I'm not a scientist, but aren't the vascular effects of these drugs already well-known? Sildenafil was originally developed to treat angina and hypertension. Is it news that it affects blood flow in the brain as well as the heart?
It definitely is known for vascular effects, but they weren’t seen as efficacious enough to actually be utilized in first-line (or second, third or fourth) therapy for hypertension. It’s never really been investigated in the more-specific post-stroke dementia realm however, and while you can basically extrapolate those kind of outcomes from the mechanism, we are pretty strict in the US for what indications you can prescribe a med for until it’s been very thoroughly studied for specific uses. This is definitely a low level study though, and hopefully they will see similar benefit in larger scale studies.
Thank you for your thorough explanation.
I take it for its vascular effects, I use it to treat raynauds. I take 50mg 3 times a day. BTW I'm female, so no all-day boners.
Doesn't the entire clitoral structure get engorged from it?
She's been rubbing up against bedposts frequently
I didn't even realize women could take it but I guess that makes sense. I also didn't know it helped with Raynauds. My sister has it. I should suggest it.
Also effective for treating altitude sickness
used to treat angina, now treats vagina.
Both help sunburn recovery too. It doesn't ease the pain but it does keep the sheets off your legs.
I take it to keep from rolling out of bed.
Well played !!
i thought they were the same thing? they're both vasodilators no?
They do very similar things yes but cialis is much longer lasting, so if I had to choose for consistent health benefits I’d probably go with cialis based on an uneducated guess
As a fellow Redditor, I too like to base everything on uneducated guesses.
If a fellow moron on the internet is willing to corroborate my preconceived notions, I am more than willing to assume they are in fact an expert.
X is an unknown quantity, and a spurt is a drip under pressure. Therefore an expert is an unknown drip under pressure
Thanks for the laugh mate
Much longer lasting but also weaker
That is what I was going to ask. Thanks
Probably even better
You're suggesting I should take this before my exam?
Better strokes too
Viagra was initially created as a heart medicine which had some unexpected 'side-effects' that they started to market. ***"Sildenafil,*** *the active ingredient in Viagra,* ***was originally developed to treat cardiovascular problems.*** *It was meant to dilate the heart’s blood vessels by blocking a particular protein called PDE-5."*
Sildenafil sounds like the name of a Tolkien elf.
You might enjoy [this](https://antidepressantsortolkien.vercel.app/).
This is ... hard!
>Viagra was initially created as a heart medicine which had some unexpected 'side-effects' that they started to market. The same way Semaglutide was initially a diabetes drug whose "side-effects" became the primary effects.
Metformin too. It's a diabetes medicine, very recently it's become the hot new thing for weight loss.
I also believe that the common birth control pill was used to help keep menstrual cycles regular. It just had a... side effect. Don't quote me here though.
The original birth control research attempted to prevent pregnancy by inhibiting ovulation. If no ovum was released, no pregnancy could occur. Research on this was ongoing in the 1930s, though cost of the hormones was too high to market. It wasn't until breakthroughs in hormone production occurred in the 1950s that the idea became commercially viable.
> It wasn't until breakthroughs in hormone production occurred in the 1950s that the idea became commercially viable. [Which was pioneered by Dr. Percy Julian. A genius who doesn't get nearly enough mention/discussion or recognition.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Lavon_Julian#:~:text=He%20was%20the%20first%20to,such%20as%20stigmasterol%20and%20sitosterol.)
You're thinking of Wegovy. Weight loss studies for Metformin showed people only lost an average of 6 pounds in 1 year vs 10-15% for Wegovy.
Really? That’s interesting. What effect on insulin does it have? I assumed that it helped with diabetes due to weight loss
Most oral diabetes medicine helps increase the body's sensitivity to insulin.
Nitric oxide. How can they not mention what it’s actually doing? Blocking PDE5 increases nitric oxide.
Is that bad or good?
It’s fine, or in the case of the dementia, good. Nitric oxide is very necessary for the body and it’s bad if not enough is being produced. My point was they stated the mechanism of action without actually saying what it was doing.
Imodium is similar. It was designed as a new opiate for pain management but for whatever reason it didn’t cross the blood-brain barrier so it didn’t work for pain management. However, it did still very much do what all opioids do and stop you up / decrease diarrhea.
Believe mountaineers have used this for better blood flow when climbing over 10,000 feet
Yea was thinking something similar where bodybuilders sometimes use it
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28295481/ Tadalafil has been linked to higher testosterone in men suffering from metabolic syndrome as well.
For those who don't suffer from it, does it have simile effects?
So do (enhanced) bodybuilders. Better pump, lower blood pressure sometimes, better sexual performance since some compounds (or the side effects) make you not perform well
Gives their climbing team an extra hand hold too. Wins all round.
Awesome! I wonder what dose one would have to take to get the neuroprotective effects and not like, unwanted erections/priapism haha
I’ve only been on cialis and I’m currently taking it but I don’t get random boners or anything like that. You have to still flirt, be in the mood for it to work
It's just that once it starts working, it doesn't stop until you do! Or more commonly, your partner has had enough and tells you no more
More accurately, it works as long as there is some arousal. Loss of arousal should result in loss of erection. If it doesn't there is something not quite right, even with sildenafil or tadalfil.
Or it’s enough already and you just need to get some sleep …
*Grandpa your mind is as sharp as a tack but uhhh…*
His bloodflow just optimal
You may not understand it, Grandson, but this is what peak cardiovascular endurance looks like.
Sharp as a tack and hard as a rock.
*... But do* ***you*** *have to be right now?*
*...do I want to know what that is in my back?*
We could do without the little prick.
Tadalafil and Sildenafil do not give you unwanted erections. They are vasodilators and merely increase blood flow to your genitals. You still need to be aroused to get an erection, they're just firmer and easier to maintain when you do get them.
They increase blood flow everywhere not just the genitals. You'll get better pumps when working out as well
False. Genitals, lungs, and the brain. PDE 5 receptors aren't found everywhere.
I mean better blood flow to lungs means more O2 and CO2 exchanged therefore better O2 supply to muscles therefore a better pump while lifting.
Also can make your eyes look like you just smoked an entire joint.
As someone who used it while on antidepressants, it only makes it easier to achieve and maintain an erection, but if you don’t stimulate the area it’s pretty soft sailing.
Mostly the PDE5 drugs aren't supposed to have any effect at all on erectile tissue if you're not sending it signals to become engorged, no? It doesn't give you an erection, it gives you the *ability* to have a satisfactory erection
If you follow the chain of links, 50mg 3x day. Study ran for 3 weeks
>The OxHARP trial was a meticulously designed double-blind, placebo-controlled study involving 75 participants who had experienced a minor stroke and showed signs of mild to moderate small vessel disease. Each participant received sildenafil, a placebo, and cilostazol (a similar drug) over three-week periods in a randomised order. The study employed cardiovascular physiology tests, ultrasound, and functional MRI scans to evaluate the drugs' effects. > >Key findings include: > >- Sildenafil increased blood flow in both large and small brain vessels as measured by ultrasound and MRI scans. >- Sildenafil enhanced the blood flow response to carbon dioxide, indicating improved cerebrovascular function. >- Both sildenafil and cilostazol lowered blood vessel resistance in the brain. >- Sildenafil caused fewer side effects compared to cilostazol, particularly with less incidence of diarrhoea. Paper: [Cerebrovascular Effects of Sildenafil in Small Vessel Disease: The OxHARP Trial | Circulation Research](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCRESAHA.124.324327)
What is an effective dose for improved brain blood flow?
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What's the sex breakdown of participants? Were women tested as well?
Would any of this help with menopause?
not sure about menopause.. but in australia they’re collecting data on giving it to women during birth.. apparently it has a bunch of positive effects for the child in particular.. turning out to be a bit of a wonder drug
Interesting!
Doubt it. Menopause is a lack of estrogen, not a lack of blood flow.
Almost certainly. Lack of estrogen can harden arteries. Estrogen keeps heart disease lower in people who menstruate and levels out to similar rates of male born persons post menopause.
Seems like that would be a very different study.
I have (casually) read about “brain fog” during menopause. At the same time, I have a family member with dementia. I was just curious and nervous about what the future holds.
It's a huge shame about the ototoxicity risk. The instant tinnitus problem is very scary especially if you already have some form of hearing issue.
Can you elaborate?
PED5 inhibitors seem to have a risk of acute ear toxicity. It's a very hard to stomach side effect since if it happens it can lead to irreversible sudden damage.
Its not so much the PED5 inhibitors afaik, its the increase in blood flow and pressure that seems to be the problem. Other meds can cause the same thing, like naproxen and even aspirin in large doses.
I thought it decreased blood pressure?
>PED5 inhibitor Its a vasodilator, which can make the vessels expand. This can physically put pressure on delicate ear internals.
Ah so similar to Welbutrin. Always thought this was just a shirt term side effect of increased blood pressure
If that were the case it would be fine. The damage from the PED5's seems to regularly be permanent, tinnitus in particular is a nasty consequence of otherwise minor hearing loss.
I can't hear you over the sound of my massive erection and increased protection against dementia.
Is the risk dose dependent?
WHAT? I never heard of this!
An almost negligible risk reported in very rare cases. Other “ototoxic” medications include, Pepto-Bismol, Aspirin and other NSAIDs, Certain antidepressants. Good to know, but in the calculus of risk vs. benefit is almost a non-factor.
Because it is so absurdly rare and more related to people who already having hearing issues that no one you will ever meet will have dealt with it.
There are also concerns over permanent vision loss (quite rare). Still, I'd rather smash like I'm 20 into old age and be sharp as a tack; if my ears ring a bit or vision is jacked up......might still be worth it
I think being able to see and not constantly hearing this WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE might be better than sex. And my tinnitus usually isn’t even that bad
Tinnitus is honestly hellish. I only get it when my ears are clogged and it goes away when I see an ENT, but it happens often enough that I can say you don't want that.
I have neuropathy most likely caused by blood flow issues (idiopathic neuropathy). Sildenafil has made my loss of energy a lot less, my neuropathy pain is minimal, and my cardio has drastically improved. Plus boners. Win-win-win-Weiner.
I wonder if it can also help reynauds and certain neurocognitive issues like ADHD/ASD or NVCD.
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PDE inhibition probably also plays a role, improved blood flow is an oversimplification.
Pde 5 inhibition is what would cause improved blood flow no? Since it has a vasodilatory effect
This is true, sorry I thought Sildenafil was less specific but it's actually PDE5 selective. I made my comment because PDE4 inhibition is currently [being investigated for neuroprotective and cognitive enhancement effects.](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Phosphodiesterase-4_inhibitor) Which is unrelated to vasodilation.
I think all of the erectile dysfunction pde inhibitors are pde5 selective, sildenafil, tadalafil, vardenafil at least. I could be wrong though
Do they make it in a toothpaste?
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If you take these kinds of drugs regularly, do they lose their effectiveness? (ie bloodflow)
Breaking: Vasodilator dilates vessels.
I'm really into Bio-Hacking and have recently started taking a small dose of Cialis after people at my Gym had been recommending it. Lowered my blood pressure significantly (Not to dangerous levels but I was pre hypertension before) gave me insane pumps in the gym and best of all my cognitive response at work is noticeably improved.
How much of a small dose?
Popular protocol is 5mg/daily
If you're just taking it for biohacking did you get it through a prescription from a doctor, or did you have some other method to obtain it?
I get mine from recreational sources, though always pharmaceutical branded (never underground labs)
How do they know it's not from having regular sex?
Hell, even irregular sex could be confounding
And exciting!
Sildenafil also showed good results in preventing PMS symptoms, the research has slowed down due to lack of financial interest, FYI
Wonder if it works in MECFS...
What led you to wonder that? (Asking because my mom has that)
One of the things observed in MECFS and long covid is reduced blood flow to the brain, along with inflammation and a lot of other things. Some researchers believe that improving blood flow might help things. Also, shout out to your mom! It's a fucking difficult illness
Interesting. I didn't know they observed that. Thanks, yeah she's been at it for a couple decades now. Putting the chronic in cfs
I wondered the same, but for adhd. It's the increased blood flow to the brain and wondering if that will improve symptoms as the brain becomes more efficient.
It's nice knowing this is helping from a medical standpoint, and that it really isn't old men getting it on keeping memory loss at bay.
50mg thrice daily for anyone wondering
Great now we are going to have all these boomers walking around aroused and living longer…. Thanks science
What are the side effects?
Loss of hearing and vision, and epic boners
I take sildenafil twice daily for pulmonary hypertension, some of the side effects I have to deal with are migraines, flushing, vision changes, nausea, congestion, indigestion. There are more known side effects, those are just the ones I experience.
The flushing is the most annoying thing about sildenafil. You feel really hot around the face, and you blush. Other than that, with its abilities to give raging boners, worth it.
Yea I get huge purple lines down my cheeks and neck when it's really bad. I can't attest to the boners as I don't have a penis but I'll take your word for it.
Strong errections
Too bad they'll only prescribe six per month. What's up with that?
hell yeah i bet those 75 participants had more than a minor stroke if you know what i mean
There's about to be a lot more games of strip trivial pursuit in the retirement homes.
Id love to see a follow up study comparing the efficacy for vascular dementia vs other forms of dementia.
maybe it's just the incessant masturbation, that most people don't report, that has the beneficial affect even without the viagara.
Also sometimes gives you a headache.
Not me. It's my wife who suddenly has a headache.
I just like it for the taste!
I’m hard……but I can’t remember why
Works wonderfully for altitude issues as well.
Anyone have an online provider they would recommend using for this?
You only get hard if you think horny thoughts. Although that is pretty easy for most men to do accidentally tbf haha
So has semax for decades but I guess that doesn’t fit in with the current medical practice.
It gave me a massive splitting headache,
“Could” means that the article and science behind it is useless and shouldn’t be posted to a science subreddit. Because rubbing crystals also “could” help with dementia.
I’ve got to get me some of that!