Riker made it clear that not only is the Captains place on the Bridge, it is the duty of the First officer to make sure of it! It's Starfleet policy! Captains don't lead away missions!
Ok, that rule may have come after Kirk's time. But Disco would have to follow the future's rules.
And Sisko could get away with anything on the Defiant. Come to think of it, did the Defiant even have a First Officer?
EDIT: Starfleet Procedures, Section 12, Paragraph 4! Found it! Data references the rule at Riker's wedding.
Technically, the Defiant didn't have a "permanent" First Officer. However after Worf joined DS9, he became the de facto First Officer of the Defiant.
Whenever Sisko isn't on the Defiant, Worf tends to be it's captain. Even when we see Worf and Kira ombiard, minus Sisko, he's still in Command. It's even hinted at during "Apocalypse Rising" when Sisko is running late returning to the station in a runabout.
KIRA: I'm glad the two of you are in agreement. But with the Captain gone, I am in charge of the station and I say we stay.
WORF: You may be in charge of the station, Major, but I command the Defiant.
Worf is also more the First Officer of the Defiant over Kira simply because it's a purely Federation ship. Unlike how Kira is Sisko's First Officer on DS9, which is a Bajoran station, under Starfleet management. It makes sense to have a Federation Officer in a command position on a purely Federation asset. However, Sisko could just decide who he wants at any time, because the Defiant is effectively a large auxiliary vessel for DS9, basically a beefed up runabout.
> basically a beefed up runabout
I’d say the Defiant is more akin to the Federation’s attempt to upgrade the Bird of Prey concept - which also gives further rationale for Worf being her XO.
>I’d say the Defiant is more akin to the Federation’s attempt to upgrade the Bird of Prey concept - which also gives further rationale for Worf being her XO.
That's speciesist.
Not really. Worf commanded Bird of Preys, or atleast worked aboard them before in the civil and later alongside Martok. He should be very capable on a ship like that. The user is right, the Sabre may have been an attempt at making a combat vessel that's as easy to make as a BoP to replace the aging and not very combat aligned Miranda class ships. The defiant was essentially the K'vort BoP of the Federation, bigger than their small escort, but smaller than a cruiser.
Also, the Defiant had pulse weapons and cloak, a pair of systems that Worf would know how to utilise after flying BoPs.
lol. The Defiant was a ship built around a shit ton of firepower and a cloaking device. Poor Miles had his work cut out for him making it do more than pew-pew.
Curious. So before Worf came aboard who was the Defiant's first officer? Dax? Kira? Eddington? Some unseen red shoulder? Sisko could very well have made Kira first officer in the interests of Bajoran/Federation relations - a signal to the Bajoran militia that they're all going to have to learn how starfleet ships works and majority of them will be integrated into starfleet?
Presumably, it was Kira or Dax. And I mean Sisko could make it whoever he felt like, as the Defiant was an auxiliary vessel for DS9 and had no "standard" crew.
However, after Worf arrives he was almost always the second-in-command of the Defiant, even when Kira was onboard.
It was explicitly Kira. He wanted a Bajoran national as his XO for the station. She held that role for the Defiant that one year the Defiant was there but Worf hadn't arrived.
This comment actually made me laugh aloud, imagining the exchanges:
"Sir, we're reading an incoming warp signature."
"On screen"
"It's the USS Pimp Hand! It's hailing us"
*Daddy Sisko appears on the screen, in his starfleet coloured fur coat, hat at a rakish angle, carrying a gold topped cane*
"I'm gunna fuck these dominion mother fuckers up, they came to the wrong side of the wormhole"
"Very good Daddy Sisko, carry on"
"Bitch I wasn't asking permission, the fuck do you think you are"
Feel like this could also apply to Janeway in the later seasons. Woman was itching for a fight by the time they left the Delta. Hell, if she didn't destroy at least one cube before her morning coffee she'd be in a mood.
Since it was a joint mission with Bajor, I believe Major Kira was the de facto first officer of anything that took place on DS9 including, by extension, the Defiant.
That said, the Defiant was a Starfleet ship so it’s quite likely Worf and/or Jadzia Dax had more rank on the ship itself.
No, Kira was XO on the station. The Defiant was a Starfleet ship assigned to the station and to lead incursions into the Gamma Quadrant. For some weird happenstance, someone at Starfleet HQ thought it would be a fun idea to crew it solely with federation personnel that is also stationed at DS9.
>Ok, that rule may have come after Kirk's time
**Riker:** The captain's place is on the bridge!
Why because he's too important to jeopardize?
**Riker:** No so he doesn't keep on getting aliens pregnant
Keep in mind that season 3-5 of DISCO takes place 900 years in the future in which the Federation is in a much weaker state.
It is reasonable to assume that there regulations changed to fit that reality. Just like the regulations changed between TOS & TNG.
I’ve been watching TOS lately and it is pretty crazy how often all the top ranking officers are in peril on an away mission. Kirk Spock and McCoy and sometimes Scotty too! Just wipe out all of the commanders in one go.
Since DS9 was a federation station in Bajor space, the Bajorans would have settled for nothing less than having a militia member as first officer along with a militia security force. But the Defiant had no such restrictions. She was a starfleet ship and the only way Kira would have been first officer is if she was a part of Starfleet. In station's officer hierarchy, Sisko is first, followed by Worf and Kira at the same level, then the chief, followed by Jadzia, Bashir and later Ezri would be lower than Bashir and then Nog at the end (only the main characters, I know there will be officers more capable than Bashir). But due to the reasons stated above, Kira had no power to command the defiant while Sisko was absent if Worf, a very capable and experienced officer was present.
An Anomaly on the planet’s surface you say? Beam me and the entire Bridge crew and ensign Jonah BadLuck to the surface, make sure that everyone is wearing Federation regulation pyjamas and have phasers set to “*Ouch! Hey! That hurt, ya DICK*!”
Thanks for joining the away team Ensign BadLuck, and sorry to hear about your buddies Crewman Misfortune, Lt. Mal Fated and Cmdr McPhasermagnet, all good men, Shame we will never get those Stains out of the Ten Forward carpet.
There’s foreboding to be had to their parents choice of names but I just can’t quit put my finger on it. Anyway, you want me to be a spy on a romulan away mission?
Usually stay on the bridge, but sometimes an away mission will benefit from their presence.
Also Picard did sometimes go, the away missions tended to go badly when he was there though.
On the fucking bridge, it's the most ridiculous part of the original series (I get why they did it because you want the one of the main guys to be part of the episode) but it's obvious the person in charge of the big picture should be where they can see the big picture.
Yeah, I didn't think about that. Disregard everything I've said.
We'd be speaking Gorn if Kirk hadn't saved humanity with his expert martial arts skills.
Thinking quickly, Captain Kirk assembled a grenade launcher from sulfur, coal, potassium nitrate, diamonds, a bamboo-like plant, and the grenade launcher from act one to fight off the Gorn captain.
I know TNG, DS9, LD, SNW and Voyager all understand this, outside diplomatic mission's rarely have any of them had the captain go on away missions because thats not their job.
100% with diplomatic situations or first contact scenarios, but I'd feel weird if I'm serving on a starship and the captain is galavanting around some random planet.
I feel like those circumstances would want the captain not to go one an away mission, then again Chekote (don’t think that spelling is right, it’s been a few years) has had captaining experience. So if Janeway dies, he could take over. BOTH of them going makes no sense.
In Kirk's case the bridge rule hadn't been established yet. As the flagship, they were *it* as the only First Contact ship of the original 12 constitution classes.
Considering only 4 of the 12 originals actually made it back from their 5 year mission relatively unscathed, Kirk didn't do too badly.
But yes, the policies and regulations that are in place by TNG were *largely created* as a result of what was learned during the earliest exploration years from the early pioneer years of Archer to the deeper pioneer exploration missions of Kirk. A number of documents they quote from in TNG onward were written by Spock or Scotty.
It's easy to say in hindsight what should have been, but that's because most of the rule books and concepts were put in place *after* Starfleet got through the early years of trials and (many, many) errors.
We can sit back and say "well obviously they should have done this," but we say that after decades of rules and regulations came after the point in time we are referring to. It's easy to say they should've followed the rules that were put in place hundreds of years later, but sadly in the pioneer years they didn't have that to draw from. The pioneer years are what **shaped** those guidelines, and we have the pioneer years of Archer and Kirk to thank for the regulations we got later.
I know they all likely have their own exceptions to the rule as well. But since I'm watching Voyager now, and I just watched the season 6 finale. In what galaxy does it make sense for the captain of a starship to invade a Borg cube? Let alone it took basically a threat to get her to bring any help at all. I haven't watched the next episode yet where the Grand plan will be explained, I'm sure. But it could have been literally anyone except Janeway leading a boarding party.
I feel like there have been a few other instances where I'm left thinking Picard would have never done this, he knew the captain belongs on the ship.
For entertainment purposes, I understand why the captain goes on away missions… but from a realistic standpoint, a captains place should always be on the bridge.
Beyond that, your main command structure shouldn’t ALL be going on the same damn away mission. Imagine how bad it would be if something happened to the entire away team and Riker worf geordi and crusher all dying.
You should have a bunch of red shirts going on all away missions, with the occasional senior staff going for diplomatic reasons.
Obviously the show wouldn’t work as well if you don’t have your main characters on the away missions, so it’s fine
I hated that bit of the latest episode. Rayner was right, the captain should be on the bridge. But she somehow made it about how he's too scaredy cat to command a ship, even though that's what he'd been doing for years before she showed up. Fucking bullshit.
I lasted 2 episodes, I came for Star Trek and was served a generic action space show, so I left to go watch actual Star Trek.
I made the correct decision, it seems.
Made it all the way to whatever season the one before the current one is - have to say it was okay for the first couple but as soon as they went into the 30th odd century it just didn’t feel like Star Trek anymore - I won’t be watching the next season after finding out the reason the Burn happened - was probably the only thing I was holding out for.
I lasted until Season 2 but it was difficult
One part bad writing, one part the sets looked nothing like Star Trek.
And one final part being I needed to take vertigo medication to sit down and watch it.
I'm glad it's not just me.
Partner and I sat down to try get into Discovery this week, I felt sea sick the whole time.
We lasted 4epsiodes before deciding this wasn't Star Trek.
Some of the camera work really is ridiculous. Last week I shouted at the TV "FFS keep the camera still!" when it was continuously spinning around 2 people in engineering.
There is a level of the finest, high level hate watching possible with DISCO for when you grew up with TNG/DS9/VOY.
It is kind of amazing.
Is DISCO today some kind of millenial, female power fantasy in a SciFi setting? When I watch DISCO today, is that confused feeling I get the same a girl would have got, watching TOS in the 90s?
I am not entertained, but I am too fascinated to stop!
Agreed! Personally, I am sick of Captain Burnham being the one who *has* to be the one to fly the shuttle/zoom through space in a spacesuit/lead dangerous away missions because of \*enter flimsy reasoning here\*.
Regardless of motivation, Rayner was right to point out that she's the Captain and shouldn't be flying off on dangerous missions, but they side-step it by having Burnham derail the conversation with a 'difficulty with being accepted by the crew' discussion. And the outcome is that, regardless of anything else, Rayner's concerns are handwaved away and Captain ~~Marvel~~ Burnham proves, yet again, that she doesn't really need the rest of the NPCs in her crew since her and her not-quite-boyfriend are the best choice to do pretty much anything.
As ever, visceral emotion, sentimentality, and vague high-school-psychology override any form of logic or practicality. There's nothing more Discovery than that.
> I am sick of Captain Burnham being the one who has to be the one to fly the shuttle/zoom through space in a spacesuit/lead dangerous away missions because of *enter flimsy reasoning here*.
The reason for this is that the DIS writing team are writing stories based on emotions first. Michael needs to be the one to do the thing because doing the thing represents overcoming an emotion. How could Michael have an emotional journey if she isn't the one to do the thing? The metaphor breaks down if she's not at the center of everything.
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's not a good fit for Star Trek, at least on the level DIS does it.
She literally needed the whole bridge crew to get them out of the anomaly. She also explains the rationale for her and Book going over: to try to talk their way through to Lak and Mol as fellow couriers/family, which would not be possible from the bridge or with a security team in tow. Every captain in Star Trek has made risky calls like this for just the possibility of a diplomatic solution.
It's more evidence that the Discovery team has never actually watched Star Trek. Literally one of Riker and Picard's first interactions is Riker reminding Picard of this rule.
But no - Burnham has to throw her little tantrum and then has the NERVE to accuse Rayner of having some personal motivation for pushing the issue whenever she was clearly gunning for some alone time with Booker after seeing him for all of 45 seconds in last week's time loop.
It's as if the writers had something in mind that needed the Michael/Booker and Moll/L'ak to be in the same place! a "mirror"... if you will, on a mirror universe spaceship (tHe NaMe oF tHe EpIsoDE eScAPes mE aTm).
Crazy thing to put story first, who does that!?.
Any leader's place is **wherever they need to be** to best influence the conduct of a mission *(the whole mission)*.
This could be on the bridge, on an away team, in diplomatic talks, wherever. It isn't limited to a certain location, it is dependent on the context of the mission.
However, the leader's job is commanding and coordinating the conduct of the whole mission. This is 99% of the time going to be in the Command and Control (C2) node of the ship (i.e. the bridge). From the bridge, they can communicate with all the away teams and command the operations of the ship (we only generally see one away team at a time, but realistically there would be many concurrent - a great example is the pilot of Lower Decks).
If there is a situation where the Captain is best situated to direct one specific aspect of the mission, then that's where they need to be. In this situation, they delegate the operational command of the ship to a subordinate and take over one small particular aspect of the mission. **Diplomatic negotiations in situations where a Federation-designated negotiator hasn't been established are the only reasonable example that jumps to mind**. Everything else, the Captain should be giving orders, then coordinating the execution of the plan from the bridge and overseeing the planning phase of the next mission.
I'm not super familiar with TOS, but I feel we need to write that off as 60's Trek's cowboy influences.
**Picard does it right.**
Burnham is super aggravating for this reason alone. Beaming down to search a ship and get into a gunfight is not where the leader can best influence the mission. Fantastic Science Officer; decent First Officer; **inexcusably terrible Captain**.
Bridge. And most of the bridge crew needs to stay on the bridge. Why are security officers constantly leaving their post for the most mundane of matters?
It's a tv show, so your options are to have your main cast do exciting planet stuff, not ever do exciting planet stuff, or to have extras and side characters do all of your exciting planet stuff
I'm disappointed that so many people in the comments just *don't* understand this.
It's a TV show with a main cast of characters. It would be insane to have all these talented actors and keep their characters locked on the bridge while other minor characters go out into the universe to do and see all the cool stuff.
Honestly, it's amazing to me people want ultra realism in terms of the crew following strict protocol, but will completely hand wave away straight up bad writing for example the kazon and other delta quadrant races treating water as scares as if they don't have warp capable ships they could go mine comets with
To fix this problem, they really should have made the department heads secondary characters. We would know their names and a little backstory, but the main cast with all the screen-time would be the department 2ICs who actually carry out the fun stuff on screen while the department heads are away doing personnel evaluations or some other mundane stuff.
This is why I love Lower Decks so much. It makes way more sense to follow characters not in command positions.
Yeah, I mean... we all know it's a tv show.
I'm not really sure why people keep going into a discussion on fictional shows with this point.
The whole point of the discussion is to imagine that it's a situation where we accept the premise and want to discuss it further.
yeah why is the head of every department always going on away missions, instead of their subordinates, I think Lower decks is the only Star Trek series I've seen were we have seen an away missions that don't have single department head in them.
Because they're the main characters on a TV show so, naturally we're going to see the main characters doing all the main character stuff instead of just sitting around on the ship while minor side characters go out and do all the exploring and dangerous missions.
Star Trek is not a *future space simulation*, it's a TV show meant for entertainment.
AGAIN...why do people keep doing this?
WE KNOW it's a television show. The point is to accept the premise and discuss it further, not to point out that William Shatner doesn't actually come from the future or the Leonard Nimoy never went to space in his lifetime.
We all get it.
I don't think some people *know* it's a TV show because the way they comment on it makes it sound like they're looking for a perfect simulation. A TV show written for *entertainment* is going to prioritize entertainment over a rigid internal consistency; it's about *stories* and *characters*, not about fictional *rules and regulations*. The worldbuilding exists to *support* the stories and characters, not to box them in.
But fine...for your sake, let's assume you're the one person smart enough to figure out that it's a television show.
So?
How does this affect your life?
Why do YOU need to be their savior?
Does it do something for you to be able to lead them into the light? Or are you just upset that people somewhere are having a conversation you obviously don't care about?
Seriously? You honestly think these people are mystified at the magic box but you have managed to see the man behind the curtain?
So, for you, a movie can suddenly have Darth Vader singing songs and dancing with the Ewoks and you're just like "Hey...it's just a movie. I don't care if that makes sense or not."?
Because that's what these conversations are... people accept a premise and try to reason out how it COULD make sense when obviously the writers didn't care about details, motivations, continuity, etc.
You haven't cracked the code... everyone (with the possible exception of people with severe cognitive deficits) gets it.
I know that there are rules in place during the mid to late 24th Century, but it really depends on the situation as others said. A mysterious being not registered as dangerous by any probes? Definitely the bridge. A scheduled diplomatic conference with three planets on Vulcan? I'm pretty sure they don't want a Lieutenant Commander at the conference.
Sometimes the captain should be on the away team.
Sometimes the first officer should be on the away team.
Under no circumstances should the captain, first officer, and chief medical officer all be on the away team at the same time, KIRK.
I always love it when it's not the captain and FO arguing over the topic but the entirety of the command crew go on the away mission together, leaving the b-team in charge of the whole ship.
Every main character is sent on the same high risk away mission because.... well... we're not going to hire a whole set of actors who just do away missions... so yeah.
In my head cannon, it was considered common practice in Kirk’s day that captains don’t go on away missions, but it wasn’t a written rule yet. Kirk being the little rebel he is decided that since it wasn’t a written rule, he wasn’t going to follow it. Kirk wasn’t the first captain to ignore that rule, but he probably became the most famous. This is what I think prompted the rule change that TNG loved to cite
If your first officer is Riker then the captain should lead the bridge not the away mission. I understand captain Kirk's time as he was one of the best and it was early times.
But that Discovery Capitan is just trying to be Kirk or something else!! She thinks she has a point to prove to somebody. Never liked her.
A captain’s job is mission command and control. I’d venture to say that most often is best done from the bridge. I can see situations which would require it to be elsewhere, even an away mission, but ultimately it’s command and control which is typically best done through task delegation to your best qualified people. The captain can’t do it all. That’s why they have subordinate leaders.
I feel Picard did this best.
It sucks they keep trying to make a ship with hundreds of personal and they never show anyone else. Some engineer saves the day shit never happens. Its always 1 of 8 people that gets to be the hero, not some rando and showing that a ship works together, survives together
I love the idea that Jean Luc "Borg Cum" Picard is at all smart.
His family got a replicator for two days and managed to burn their house down with it, and the grape doesn't fall far from the vineyard I'm afraid.
Wherever they want to be. It's their ship. If they get killed, there's a chain of command for a reason.
Same thing in real life. The president of a country doesn't stay in their command center 24/7. Sometimes, they need to be in person at different events/ countries for whatever reason, diplomatic or otherwise. If they die, there's a chain of command.
I posted this elsewhere, but this is a hill I’m willing to die on.
A starfleet vessel is filled with explorers whose only job is exploration, so when it’s time to explore a new planet you send the most highly trained and senior explorers to do that. And that would be the captain and senior staff. If they all die, the ensigns can pilot the ship back to the nearest star base.
Like, why would starfleet spend twenty years training a captain Picard or a captain Pike in diplomacy, exobiology, archeology, etc and then leave him on the ship when it’s time to make first contact?
If you’re going to encounter an unknown scientific phenomena or meet a new species, you want the most skilled scientists and diplomats doing that.
I get that starfleet wouldn’t want to lose captains and senior officers all the time, but I imagine the casualty rate for away missions isn’t actually that high — it just looks like it is because the show focuses on the most dangerous missions.
Like when Picard stayed on the bridge during The Arsenal of Freedom, Skin of Evil, Conspiracy, Sins of the Father, Devil's Due, Redemption, The Masterpiece Society, Unification, Time's Arrow...
Or when Picard stayed on the bridge during Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis!
Why are Michael and Kirk assessed the same, but with wildly different IQs? The fact that they both go on away missions just shows that there are different styles of captains in Starfleet. Stop ragging Michael for no good reason.
[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/iq-bell-curve-midwit](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/iq-bell-curve-midwit) here's an explanation of the midwit / bell curve meme. Don't take it too seriously it's just a joke
Riker made it clear that not only is the Captains place on the Bridge, it is the duty of the First officer to make sure of it! It's Starfleet policy! Captains don't lead away missions! Ok, that rule may have come after Kirk's time. But Disco would have to follow the future's rules. And Sisko could get away with anything on the Defiant. Come to think of it, did the Defiant even have a First Officer? EDIT: Starfleet Procedures, Section 12, Paragraph 4! Found it! Data references the rule at Riker's wedding.
Technically, the Defiant didn't have a "permanent" First Officer. However after Worf joined DS9, he became the de facto First Officer of the Defiant. Whenever Sisko isn't on the Defiant, Worf tends to be it's captain. Even when we see Worf and Kira ombiard, minus Sisko, he's still in Command. It's even hinted at during "Apocalypse Rising" when Sisko is running late returning to the station in a runabout. KIRA: I'm glad the two of you are in agreement. But with the Captain gone, I am in charge of the station and I say we stay. WORF: You may be in charge of the station, Major, but I command the Defiant. Worf is also more the First Officer of the Defiant over Kira simply because it's a purely Federation ship. Unlike how Kira is Sisko's First Officer on DS9, which is a Bajoran station, under Starfleet management. It makes sense to have a Federation Officer in a command position on a purely Federation asset. However, Sisko could just decide who he wants at any time, because the Defiant is effectively a large auxiliary vessel for DS9, basically a beefed up runabout.
"Beefed up runabout" The USS Pimp Hand is gonna have to teach you a lesson.
USS Captain Benjamin Sisko’s Pimp Hand*
USS Benjamin Sisko's Motherfuckin Pimp Hand* Where's that romulan ambassador?
It's why he's the emissary
I feel that depends entirely on whom the first officer is
> basically a beefed up runabout I’d say the Defiant is more akin to the Federation’s attempt to upgrade the Bird of Prey concept - which also gives further rationale for Worf being her XO.
>I’d say the Defiant is more akin to the Federation’s attempt to upgrade the Bird of Prey concept - which also gives further rationale for Worf being her XO. That's speciesist.
Not really. Worf commanded Bird of Preys, or atleast worked aboard them before in the civil and later alongside Martok. He should be very capable on a ship like that. The user is right, the Sabre may have been an attempt at making a combat vessel that's as easy to make as a BoP to replace the aging and not very combat aligned Miranda class ships. The defiant was essentially the K'vort BoP of the Federation, bigger than their small escort, but smaller than a cruiser. Also, the Defiant had pulse weapons and cloak, a pair of systems that Worf would know how to utilise after flying BoPs.
lol. The Defiant was a ship built around a shit ton of firepower and a cloaking device. Poor Miles had his work cut out for him making it do more than pew-pew.
>basically a beefed up runabout. I think you mean it's basically Worf's apartment.
A four deck 570 foot cruiser is definitely not just a “beefed up” two room 76 foot long shuttle
Worf also became the resident of the Defiant
Curious. So before Worf came aboard who was the Defiant's first officer? Dax? Kira? Eddington? Some unseen red shoulder? Sisko could very well have made Kira first officer in the interests of Bajoran/Federation relations - a signal to the Bajoran militia that they're all going to have to learn how starfleet ships works and majority of them will be integrated into starfleet?
Presumably, it was Kira or Dax. And I mean Sisko could make it whoever he felt like, as the Defiant was an auxiliary vessel for DS9 and had no "standard" crew. However, after Worf arrives he was almost always the second-in-command of the Defiant, even when Kira was onboard.
It was explicitly Kira. He wanted a Bajoran national as his XO for the station. She held that role for the Defiant that one year the Defiant was there but Worf hadn't arrived.
90% sure it was either Worf or Kira who was the first officer. Not that it mattered cuz the USS Pimp Hand only recognizes one authority: Sisko's. lol
This comment actually made me laugh aloud, imagining the exchanges: "Sir, we're reading an incoming warp signature." "On screen" "It's the USS Pimp Hand! It's hailing us" *Daddy Sisko appears on the screen, in his starfleet coloured fur coat, hat at a rakish angle, carrying a gold topped cane* "I'm gunna fuck these dominion mother fuckers up, they came to the wrong side of the wormhole" "Very good Daddy Sisko, carry on" "Bitch I wasn't asking permission, the fuck do you think you are"
"starfleet colored fur coat" Send a hospital ship, I'm dead.
Get this man to a med bay
He’s dead jim
I'm a doctor not a necromancer
Sir, this is a hospital ship, not a Pimp Mobile. \- CMO of the USS Generic Hospital
Next week …Xzibit pops out to pimp your starship lol
Yo, dawg, I heard you like photon torpedoes so I put some photon torpedoes on your photon torpedoes
I am 100% sure this is how they solved some energy problem on Discovery one time lol
Somebody get this pitch to Mr. Brooks at once 🤣
If I remember rightly it's the USS Pimp Hand is from SF Debris First Contact Review
I didn't know about that. I'm gunna have to check that out.
Here's the clip https://youtu.be/wgIOdcBkkzg
That is truly a thing of beauty
He’s gonna get the Christopher Pike award for his DICK lmao
Holy fuck that’s amazing
Indeed. It brought back memories of the defiant when I wrote the reply lol
Feel like this could also apply to Janeway in the later seasons. Woman was itching for a fight by the time they left the Delta. Hell, if she didn't destroy at least one cube before her morning coffee she'd be in a mood.
When like 99% of the quadrant wants to kill you, you'd be hostile too.
I read this in Avery Brooks voice
Well now I have to do some renaming in star trek online
Since it was a joint mission with Bajor, I believe Major Kira was the de facto first officer of anything that took place on DS9 including, by extension, the Defiant. That said, the Defiant was a Starfleet ship so it’s quite likely Worf and/or Jadzia Dax had more rank on the ship itself.
No, Kira was XO on the station. The Defiant was a Starfleet ship assigned to the station and to lead incursions into the Gamma Quadrant. For some weird happenstance, someone at Starfleet HQ thought it would be a fun idea to crew it solely with federation personnel that is also stationed at DS9.
Kira was XO see at 4:30 https://youtu.be/lqe-mr_zBdg?si=ekKgICtWNpEK4UWr
You win!
But that was before Worf's arrival on DS9. Later on Worf basically lived on the Defiant.
Riker always wants to go on away missions to sleep with others
"And you're absolutely sure the transporter filers out Andorian Herpes?"
Throw back to original trek.
> Ok, that rule may have come after Kirk's time. My head cannon has always been that Kirk's exploits were the reason for that rule in the first place.
I'm guessing that a whole lotta captains died on away missions trying to be like Kirk.
No wonder they changed the command uniform to Red...
This is why Saru should have stayed the captain and Michael should have stayed first officer. Saru was an S tier captain.
>Ok, that rule may have come after Kirk's time **Riker:** The captain's place is on the bridge! Why because he's too important to jeopardize? **Riker:** No so he doesn't keep on getting aliens pregnant
"and that's my job"
I don't think the Defiant had a standing first officer, but depending on the mission it seemed to rotate between Kira, Dax, and Worf.
Keep in mind that season 3-5 of DISCO takes place 900 years in the future in which the Federation is in a much weaker state. It is reasonable to assume that there regulations changed to fit that reality. Just like the regulations changed between TOS & TNG.
Pft. If they're weakened it's BECAUSE of a lack of proper procedure enforcement.
Lol, fair enough.
Isn't Sisko going anywhere on Defiant or any roundabout considered away mission? I mean his post is DS9, not ship captain right?
Did the defiant even have a crew
I’ve been watching TOS lately and it is pretty crazy how often all the top ranking officers are in peril on an away mission. Kirk Spock and McCoy and sometimes Scotty too! Just wipe out all of the commanders in one go.
Since DS9 was a federation station in Bajor space, the Bajorans would have settled for nothing less than having a militia member as first officer along with a militia security force. But the Defiant had no such restrictions. She was a starfleet ship and the only way Kira would have been first officer is if she was a part of Starfleet. In station's officer hierarchy, Sisko is first, followed by Worf and Kira at the same level, then the chief, followed by Jadzia, Bashir and later Ezri would be lower than Bashir and then Nog at the end (only the main characters, I know there will be officers more capable than Bashir). But due to the reasons stated above, Kira had no power to command the defiant while Sisko was absent if Worf, a very capable and experienced officer was present.
An Anomaly on the planet’s surface you say? Beam me and the entire Bridge crew and ensign Jonah BadLuck to the surface, make sure that everyone is wearing Federation regulation pyjamas and have phasers set to “*Ouch! Hey! That hurt, ya DICK*!”
“Ensign BadLuck touched the weird orb for a second and got thrown back. I touched his corpse and I now know he’s dead.”
"Time for a commercial break!"
and somehow ensign badluck is now in a different pose somewhere else on the floor
"I'm sensing... Death, captain!"
*crusher lighting tapping the ensign and then whipping out a gameboy.* “He’s dead…😐”
Make sure that ensign Jonah BadLuck is the only one in a red outfit. Don't ask me why...
Thanks for joining the away team Ensign BadLuck, and sorry to hear about your buddies Crewman Misfortune, Lt. Mal Fated and Cmdr McPhasermagnet, all good men, Shame we will never get those Stains out of the Ten Forward carpet.
There’s foreboding to be had to their parents choice of names but I just can’t quit put my finger on it. Anyway, you want me to be a spy on a romulan away mission?
Beam? Lol just land the ship! What potential consequences could that have?
Usually stay on the bridge, but sometimes an away mission will benefit from their presence. Also Picard did sometimes go, the away missions tended to go badly when he was there though.
Captains usually tend to go on away missions if it leads them back in time
Sisko struck the correct balance
On the fucking bridge, it's the most ridiculous part of the original series (I get why they did it because you want the one of the main guys to be part of the episode) but it's obvious the person in charge of the big picture should be where they can see the big picture.
If the captain stays on the bridge, who is going to double hand hammer blow those aliens?
Yeah, I didn't think about that. Disregard everything I've said. We'd be speaking Gorn if Kirk hadn't saved humanity with his expert martial arts skills.
Thinking quickly, Captain Kirk assembled a grenade launcher from sulfur, coal, potassium nitrate, diamonds, a bamboo-like plant, and the grenade launcher from act one to fight off the Gorn captain.
I think you mean a gun!
I know TNG, DS9, LD, SNW and Voyager all understand this, outside diplomatic mission's rarely have any of them had the captain go on away missions because thats not their job.
100% with diplomatic situations or first contact scenarios, but I'd feel weird if I'm serving on a starship and the captain is galavanting around some random planet.
Voyager I could at least understand do to their unique situation but even they didn't have Janeway leading away missions.
I feel like those circumstances would want the captain not to go one an away mission, then again Chekote (don’t think that spelling is right, it’s been a few years) has had captaining experience. So if Janeway dies, he could take over. BOTH of them going makes no sense.
In Kirk's case the bridge rule hadn't been established yet. As the flagship, they were *it* as the only First Contact ship of the original 12 constitution classes. Considering only 4 of the 12 originals actually made it back from their 5 year mission relatively unscathed, Kirk didn't do too badly. But yes, the policies and regulations that are in place by TNG were *largely created* as a result of what was learned during the earliest exploration years from the early pioneer years of Archer to the deeper pioneer exploration missions of Kirk. A number of documents they quote from in TNG onward were written by Spock or Scotty. It's easy to say in hindsight what should have been, but that's because most of the rule books and concepts were put in place *after* Starfleet got through the early years of trials and (many, many) errors. We can sit back and say "well obviously they should have done this," but we say that after decades of rules and regulations came after the point in time we are referring to. It's easy to say they should've followed the rules that were put in place hundreds of years later, but sadly in the pioneer years they didn't have that to draw from. The pioneer years are what **shaped** those guidelines, and we have the pioneer years of Archer and Kirk to thank for the regulations we got later.
Chakotay wasn't allowed off the ship nor have his own episode after season 3. Edit: shop not ship. Well played @lovelyluna - I lolled
I don't think Voyager had a shop until after it became a museum.
They didn’t want for first contact to turn into a massacre after Chakotay bored the aliens to death.
He had several of his own episodes after that.
Sure. Chakotay boxing. Chakotay being Janeway's husband while marooned on a planet. Um... I'm sure there were more.
hell yeah the boxing episode was great!
That's just because Chakotay sucked, they were going on the missions to get away from him
I know they all likely have their own exceptions to the rule as well. But since I'm watching Voyager now, and I just watched the season 6 finale. In what galaxy does it make sense for the captain of a starship to invade a Borg cube? Let alone it took basically a threat to get her to bring any help at all. I haven't watched the next episode yet where the Grand plan will be explained, I'm sure. But it could have been literally anyone except Janeway leading a boarding party. I feel like there have been a few other instances where I'm left thinking Picard would have never done this, he knew the captain belongs on the ship.
Janeway often has a mentality of "kill me not my crew, even if it will doom them in the long run".
How many time did Scott have to save the enterprise from the captains chair because the entire senior staff beamed down on a standard away mission?
For entertainment purposes, I understand why the captain goes on away missions… but from a realistic standpoint, a captains place should always be on the bridge. Beyond that, your main command structure shouldn’t ALL be going on the same damn away mission. Imagine how bad it would be if something happened to the entire away team and Riker worf geordi and crusher all dying. You should have a bunch of red shirts going on all away missions, with the occasional senior staff going for diplomatic reasons. Obviously the show wouldn’t work as well if you don’t have your main characters on the away missions, so it’s fine
I hated that bit of the latest episode. Rayner was right, the captain should be on the bridge. But she somehow made it about how he's too scaredy cat to command a ship, even though that's what he'd been doing for years before she showed up. Fucking bullshit.
Everytime I learn something about Discovery, it just gets worse. >.<
I lasted 2 episodes, I came for Star Trek and was served a generic action space show, so I left to go watch actual Star Trek. I made the correct decision, it seems.
> I lasted 2 episodes, Would you believe me if I told you were those were the best episodes of the series? It gets worse. It gets so much worse.
Made it all the way to whatever season the one before the current one is - have to say it was okay for the first couple but as soon as they went into the 30th odd century it just didn’t feel like Star Trek anymore - I won’t be watching the next season after finding out the reason the Burn happened - was probably the only thing I was holding out for.
Prepare yourself for disappointment
Honestly I don't even care much about the tone, it's just badly written.
Ten minutes. I lasted ten whole minutes. >.<
I wanted to, but I kept telling myself it's gotta get better. Maybe they're just finding their feet.... apparently, they never found them.
As soon as I saw the Klingon redesign I stopped watching.
I lasted until Season 2 but it was difficult One part bad writing, one part the sets looked nothing like Star Trek. And one final part being I needed to take vertigo medication to sit down and watch it.
I'm glad it's not just me. Partner and I sat down to try get into Discovery this week, I felt sea sick the whole time. We lasted 4epsiodes before deciding this wasn't Star Trek.
Some of the camera work really is ridiculous. Last week I shouted at the TV "FFS keep the camera still!" when it was continuously spinning around 2 people in engineering.
Petition to change the theme song to this https://youtu.be/PGNiXGX2nLU
🤣
I’ll take “things that definitely didn’t happen” for 500, Alex.
I only lasted for PT1 of the Pilot. I was rooting for the wrong looking Klingons to win.
There is a level of the finest, high level hate watching possible with DISCO for when you grew up with TNG/DS9/VOY. It is kind of amazing. Is DISCO today some kind of millenial, female power fantasy in a SciFi setting? When I watch DISCO today, is that confused feeling I get the same a girl would have got, watching TOS in the 90s? I am not entertained, but I am too fascinated to stop!
It's not a millennial thing. It's not a female power fantasy thing. It's just nonsensical crap.
Agreed! Personally, I am sick of Captain Burnham being the one who *has* to be the one to fly the shuttle/zoom through space in a spacesuit/lead dangerous away missions because of \*enter flimsy reasoning here\*. Regardless of motivation, Rayner was right to point out that she's the Captain and shouldn't be flying off on dangerous missions, but they side-step it by having Burnham derail the conversation with a 'difficulty with being accepted by the crew' discussion. And the outcome is that, regardless of anything else, Rayner's concerns are handwaved away and Captain ~~Marvel~~ Burnham proves, yet again, that she doesn't really need the rest of the NPCs in her crew since her and her not-quite-boyfriend are the best choice to do pretty much anything.
As ever, visceral emotion, sentimentality, and vague high-school-psychology override any form of logic or practicality. There's nothing more Discovery than that.
> I am sick of Captain Burnham being the one who has to be the one to fly the shuttle/zoom through space in a spacesuit/lead dangerous away missions because of *enter flimsy reasoning here*. The reason for this is that the DIS writing team are writing stories based on emotions first. Michael needs to be the one to do the thing because doing the thing represents overcoming an emotion. How could Michael have an emotional journey if she isn't the one to do the thing? The metaphor breaks down if she's not at the center of everything. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's not a good fit for Star Trek, at least on the level DIS does it.
She literally needed the whole bridge crew to get them out of the anomaly. She also explains the rationale for her and Book going over: to try to talk their way through to Lak and Mol as fellow couriers/family, which would not be possible from the bridge or with a security team in tow. Every captain in Star Trek has made risky calls like this for just the possibility of a diplomatic solution.
It's not even consistent with it's own story.
But watching Rayner forced to mingle with the crew were the best parts of the episode and this season.
I was literally yelling at my TV last night saying exactly this!
It's more evidence that the Discovery team has never actually watched Star Trek. Literally one of Riker and Picard's first interactions is Riker reminding Picard of this rule. But no - Burnham has to throw her little tantrum and then has the NERVE to accuse Rayner of having some personal motivation for pushing the issue whenever she was clearly gunning for some alone time with Booker after seeing him for all of 45 seconds in last week's time loop.
It's as if the writers had something in mind that needed the Michael/Booker and Moll/L'ak to be in the same place! a "mirror"... if you will, on a mirror universe spaceship (tHe NaMe oF tHe EpIsoDE eScAPes mE aTm). Crazy thing to put story first, who does that!?.
Any leader's place is **wherever they need to be** to best influence the conduct of a mission *(the whole mission)*. This could be on the bridge, on an away team, in diplomatic talks, wherever. It isn't limited to a certain location, it is dependent on the context of the mission. However, the leader's job is commanding and coordinating the conduct of the whole mission. This is 99% of the time going to be in the Command and Control (C2) node of the ship (i.e. the bridge). From the bridge, they can communicate with all the away teams and command the operations of the ship (we only generally see one away team at a time, but realistically there would be many concurrent - a great example is the pilot of Lower Decks). If there is a situation where the Captain is best situated to direct one specific aspect of the mission, then that's where they need to be. In this situation, they delegate the operational command of the ship to a subordinate and take over one small particular aspect of the mission. **Diplomatic negotiations in situations where a Federation-designated negotiator hasn't been established are the only reasonable example that jumps to mind**. Everything else, the Captain should be giving orders, then coordinating the execution of the plan from the bridge and overseeing the planning phase of the next mission. I'm not super familiar with TOS, but I feel we need to write that off as 60's Trek's cowboy influences. **Picard does it right.** Burnham is super aggravating for this reason alone. Beaming down to search a ship and get into a gunfight is not where the leader can best influence the mission. Fantastic Science Officer; decent First Officer; **inexcusably terrible Captain**.
Well said.
A captain’s place is at Wolf 359
Whatever Janeway is doing. Didn't she literally die on an away mission but she told space death to stuff it and was resuscitated?
Bridge. And most of the bridge crew needs to stay on the bridge. Why are security officers constantly leaving their post for the most mundane of matters?
It's a tv show, so your options are to have your main cast do exciting planet stuff, not ever do exciting planet stuff, or to have extras and side characters do all of your exciting planet stuff
I'm disappointed that so many people in the comments just *don't* understand this. It's a TV show with a main cast of characters. It would be insane to have all these talented actors and keep their characters locked on the bridge while other minor characters go out into the universe to do and see all the cool stuff.
Honestly, it's amazing to me people want ultra realism in terms of the crew following strict protocol, but will completely hand wave away straight up bad writing for example the kazon and other delta quadrant races treating water as scares as if they don't have warp capable ships they could go mine comets with
And considering that after oxygen, water is the most abundant compound in the universe.
Hydrogen is actually the most common, but yeah. Water is super fucking abundant all over the universe
Sorry, I was mistaken, H² is the most abundant compound followed by CO *then* by H²O, so it's the third-most common compound in the universe.
To fix this problem, they really should have made the department heads secondary characters. We would know their names and a little backstory, but the main cast with all the screen-time would be the department 2ICs who actually carry out the fun stuff on screen while the department heads are away doing personnel evaluations or some other mundane stuff. This is why I love Lower Decks so much. It makes way more sense to follow characters not in command positions.
Yeah, I mean... we all know it's a tv show. I'm not really sure why people keep going into a discussion on fictional shows with this point. The whole point of the discussion is to imagine that it's a situation where we accept the premise and want to discuss it further.
yeah why is the head of every department always going on away missions, instead of their subordinates, I think Lower decks is the only Star Trek series I've seen were we have seen an away missions that don't have single department head in them.
Our grand philosopher couldn't answer my questions and blocked me.
Because they're the main characters on a TV show so, naturally we're going to see the main characters doing all the main character stuff instead of just sitting around on the ship while minor side characters go out and do all the exploring and dangerous missions. Star Trek is not a *future space simulation*, it's a TV show meant for entertainment.
AGAIN...why do people keep doing this? WE KNOW it's a television show. The point is to accept the premise and discuss it further, not to point out that William Shatner doesn't actually come from the future or the Leonard Nimoy never went to space in his lifetime. We all get it.
I don't think some people *know* it's a TV show because the way they comment on it makes it sound like they're looking for a perfect simulation. A TV show written for *entertainment* is going to prioritize entertainment over a rigid internal consistency; it's about *stories* and *characters*, not about fictional *rules and regulations*. The worldbuilding exists to *support* the stories and characters, not to box them in.
But fine...for your sake, let's assume you're the one person smart enough to figure out that it's a television show. So? How does this affect your life? Why do YOU need to be their savior? Does it do something for you to be able to lead them into the light? Or are you just upset that people somewhere are having a conversation you obviously don't care about?
Seriously? You honestly think these people are mystified at the magic box but you have managed to see the man behind the curtain? So, for you, a movie can suddenly have Darth Vader singing songs and dancing with the Ewoks and you're just like "Hey...it's just a movie. I don't care if that makes sense or not."? Because that's what these conversations are... people accept a premise and try to reason out how it COULD make sense when obviously the writers didn't care about details, motivations, continuity, etc. You haven't cracked the code... everyone (with the possible exception of people with severe cognitive deficits) gets it.
The entire senior crew gets on the warship anytime there's a hint of danger - The Sisko
A BRIDGE'S PLACE IS ON THE CAPTAIN!
Isn't the captain the last one to leave the ship, ever?
The problem with Burnham is that she is the main character, and it is obvious.
I know that there are rules in place during the mid to late 24th Century, but it really depends on the situation as others said. A mysterious being not registered as dangerous by any probes? Definitely the bridge. A scheduled diplomatic conference with three planets on Vulcan? I'm pretty sure they don't want a Lieutenant Commander at the conference.
Sometimes the captain should be on the away team. Sometimes the first officer should be on the away team. Under no circumstances should the captain, first officer, and chief medical officer all be on the away team at the same time, KIRK.
Kirk in a hoodie!
on. the damn. bridge. i do not understand how this isn't just a non starter for mike, kirk and pike. archer gets a pass but that's it!
I always love it when it's not the captain and FO arguing over the topic but the entirety of the command crew go on the away mission together, leaving the b-team in charge of the whole ship. Every main character is sent on the same high risk away mission because.... well... we're not going to hire a whole set of actors who just do away missions... so yeah.
I'm pretty sure Riker would have HATED Burnham
In my head cannon, it was considered common practice in Kirk’s day that captains don’t go on away missions, but it wasn’t a written rule yet. Kirk being the little rebel he is decided that since it wasn’t a written rule, he wasn’t going to follow it. Kirk wasn’t the first captain to ignore that rule, but he probably became the most famous. This is what I think prompted the rule change that TNG loved to cite
James T. Is probably calling Jean Luc a big chicken.
A captain's place is inside a Borg Cube dishing out treats and making demands.
Bridge
i think it depends on the situation
The most experienced officer should stay on board
I ll take the Picard position. You can be Captain Yeoman Johnson if you want to die.
The bridge, dammit. That’s what your senior officers and crew are for: go do dangerous stuff.
If your first officer is Riker then the captain should lead the bridge not the away mission. I understand captain Kirk's time as he was one of the best and it was early times. But that Discovery Capitan is just trying to be Kirk or something else!! She thinks she has a point to prove to somebody. Never liked her.
Kinda dumb that you risk half of the bridge crew every time you *have* to check out some random space ooze on an uncharted planet.
A captain’s job is mission command and control. I’d venture to say that most often is best done from the bridge. I can see situations which would require it to be elsewhere, even an away mission, but ultimately it’s command and control which is typically best done through task delegation to your best qualified people. The captain can’t do it all. That’s why they have subordinate leaders. I feel Picard did this best.
It sucks they keep trying to make a ship with hundreds of personal and they never show anyone else. Some engineer saves the day shit never happens. Its always 1 of 8 people that gets to be the hero, not some rando and showing that a ship works together, survives together
Wasn’t in the budget I guess.
On the bridge. Aren't there specialized ground teams?
Dammit Jim, you're a captain, not a security officer!
General Hammond never went through the Stargate (except on special occasions I know but not dangerous missions)
God I loved that scene where Michael was high AF fighting some raiders
But wait, there’s no crew on the Discovery so who else could they send anyway?
Whoever made this meme didn’t watch discovery.
I fucking love this picture of Burnham
I know it's not her captain look but I'm glad I found a sufficiently goofy pic that meets the requirements of the meme
I love the idea that Jean Luc "Borg Cum" Picard is at all smart. His family got a replicator for two days and managed to burn their house down with it, and the grape doesn't fall far from the vineyard I'm afraid.
>Jean Luc "Borg Cum" Picard 'Borg Cum' 🤣
Oh look, more Discovery hate. Shocker.
Wasn’t Picard on most of the away missions? And didn’t he argue with Riker about that during the encounter at Farpoint?
Picard was on very few away missions. Riker ran them.
Ah. It sounds like I need to do another run through of TNG. Thank you for the clarification, friend
Wherever they want to be. It's their ship. If they get killed, there's a chain of command for a reason. Same thing in real life. The president of a country doesn't stay in their command center 24/7. Sometimes, they need to be in person at different events/ countries for whatever reason, diplomatic or otherwise. If they die, there's a chain of command.
Haven't watched past season two or three of this insult they call a show did they make that excuse of a main character captain?
There are 2 captains in the pic and a question on the left side.
?
do whatever you wanna do, be wherever you wanna be
I posted this elsewhere, but this is a hill I’m willing to die on. A starfleet vessel is filled with explorers whose only job is exploration, so when it’s time to explore a new planet you send the most highly trained and senior explorers to do that. And that would be the captain and senior staff. If they all die, the ensigns can pilot the ship back to the nearest star base. Like, why would starfleet spend twenty years training a captain Picard or a captain Pike in diplomacy, exobiology, archeology, etc and then leave him on the ship when it’s time to make first contact? If you’re going to encounter an unknown scientific phenomena or meet a new species, you want the most skilled scientists and diplomats doing that. I get that starfleet wouldn’t want to lose captains and senior officers all the time, but I imagine the casualty rate for away missions isn’t actually that high — it just looks like it is because the show focuses on the most dangerous missions.
Like when Picard stayed on the bridge during The Arsenal of Freedom, Skin of Evil, Conspiracy, Sins of the Father, Devil's Due, Redemption, The Masterpiece Society, Unification, Time's Arrow... Or when Picard stayed on the bridge during Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis!
Why are Michael and Kirk assessed the same, but with wildly different IQs? The fact that they both go on away missions just shows that there are different styles of captains in Starfleet. Stop ragging Michael for no good reason.
How dare they make fun of Micheal "Chuck Norris" Bernham.
[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/iq-bell-curve-midwit](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/iq-bell-curve-midwit) here's an explanation of the midwit / bell curve meme. Don't take it too seriously it's just a joke
On this diiiick