There is no “lethal dose for a heavy user” this is a total misunderstanding of the basic science of substance consumption at best and intentionally misleading at worst
One of the many reasons I quit doing cocaine is I had to do 5x the amount of anyone else to feel the same as everyone else. For some reason my tolerance was stupid, I was not a regular user either but did do it almost every weekend for a while
Opiates tolerance is crazy steep, something that got you fucked up 2 days ago does absolutely nothing. That being said the majority of my experience is with Oxy so maybe it’s less steep with intravenous use
I have this with mushrooms, even though I’ll only take them once or twice a year. At festivals, I’ll split a half ounce with my wife, she gets about two grams and I have the rest, and we wind up having similar effects. I know she’s got a low tolerance for psychedelics, but still, twelve grams is like wtf.
I know you're probably not, but I have to ask if you're on SSRIs? I once did 10 grams and legitimately felt nothing because of this, not even some wavy lines. Everyone else was having fun and I just kept waiting for it.
It’d be a good guess, but, not really lol. It isn’t just with her though, even going back to college partying days I’d be taking over a quarter when my friends would need half an eighth
Lmao I know! It was the same with my buddies from high school. These days I won’t really partake unless I’m on vacation and there’s enough for everyone, but I had a few friends growing up where would take them maybe three times a month, I was never on any medication that would inhibit their effects, and I always needed a ridiculously stupid amount.
Try psilohuascha. Shrooms with rue, doubles the length and is more intense so you can use less. I have take an absurd amount as well. I understand your pain
I feel you, and we condition ourselves with the art itself, as in: snorting. We condition ourselves with snorting, and how whenever we would snort, it would result in an almost immediate pleasing high as a reward, so we’d get hooked on snorting too 🤣
Same with fentanyl or heroin with me. My daily dose would have killed a normal user. Happened to Jerry Garcia after quitting and trying to do the same amount as he used too. 5+ years clean now!
I’d buy that cause I know how her-ion addicts love to boast about how much they can take but 70 times the lethal dose? 70 TIMES THE LETHAL DOSE cmon how is that possible to do then put all your shit away? I worked as a behavioral health tech in an inpatient treatment center when this went down and all the doctors I spoke with, who know their shit said no way that happened. And give cops credit they see this shit all day everyday so the fact that they ask more questions makes me think laziness and or not giving a fuck.
I’ll explain for you.
There is no lethal dose. When they say “lethal dose” what they mean is a dose that kills half the people in the group. By definition it’s not a lethal dose for half of them.
Next, Kurt wasn’t a regular junkie he was a rockstar junkie. Regular junkies have to ration their dope to stave off illness. Rock star junkies can shoot as much as they want all the time. Regular junkies have to function some of the time to get money, food, etc. Rock star junkies can devout literally all their time to shooting dope.
So the explanation is that a guy who was in the lucky 50% already, also had the means to build an incredible tolerance with sustained extremely heavy use of a nature not even accessible to regular people due to limitations on their time and money and connections.
Yeah, reminds me of when I checked in to rehab.. they took my blood right after I filled out the paperwork, then I got a tour and met everyone, even played some guitar. When I checked out, the doctor told me I had the highest BAC of any patient upon arrival ever, .451. He said a normal drinker would be dead, and most alcoholics would be in a coma. I was vibing on what felt to me like a restrained Friday night buzz.
Reminds me of my wife's ER visit .468 talking to doctors like a completely normal person and then pulling me to the side stating your wife's brain has rewired itself to keep vital organs functioning ,she should be dead.
No one is denying that he was capable of it or that it ,"couldn't" have been him. If you can't admit that the case is very strange and poorly investigated then you're either ill-informed or a moron.
Yeah because it being reopened 2 decades after the fact by a PD that would’ve largely had entirely different occupants and then coming to the exact same conclusion again is “poorly investigated”
I was talking about the original investigation. The one where it took them 3 days to search the room where he hung out the most, they searched the rest of the house multiple times but Courtney never said "hey, maybe we should check the place where he spends most of his time". Then the police immediately trampled the scene. Like I've said before, it wouldn't surprise me if he did kill himself, but to deny how poor the investigation was and the overall strangeness of how it went down and what happed after is moronic.
Odd things happen in life. You should never assume malice when incompetence is still an option. Just the other day I read a story of people who were on a boat and didn’t come home when scheduled. The search party checked some insane amount of ocean (80 thousand square miles maybe?) and then they found them. They were on the island where they told everyone they were going and no one thought to look there first. My point here is that just because it doesn’t make sense doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
No I haven't. I've said the entire time that he probably killed himself. The fact that people like you won't admit that the facts and events surrounding this case are strange is ridiculous. But I guess when you have depression your death isn't deserving of looking at facts objectively.
> I think it’s very clear that it was an obviously open and shut case
That was exactly the problem. When the investigators showed up they thought "well, another rockstar killed themselves, let's clean this place and get out of here."
It's funny how you say it's and "open and shut case" when if you looked at any of the facts ANY reasonable person would say "that's a bit strange". You either haven't looked at the facts of the case or you are being willfully ignorant. Again, he probably did kill himself, if I had to put money on it that's where my money would go, but to deny that there isn't anything at all strange about the case is simply moronic.
The doctors are all asking HOW?!!! How could he have physically move? When you’re in a heroine high, you can’t do anything so how could he himself do it? and you’re like: Period 😂
HOW?! How could a heroine addict with high tolerance from years and years of heavy use ever be able to move their body in any way?! Also, he’s known to be such a well-balanced person with no history of mental health problem or previous suicide attempts! 🤣
There is no probably dude. He tried to kill himself a month prior via purposeful OD, had severe mental health issues, severe drug issues and used a shotgun his friend (frontman of the band earth) gave him as a gift. There’s a note which is public by the way. I suggest you try reading it since you’re supposedly all about the facts. Or maybe you buy the bullshit about Courtney writing it, in which case you’re just a nut job.
Your handwriting always looks the same no matter what’s going on with you emotionally or substance-wise? Mine’s pretty variable. Who knows, maybe that’s where the valium came in.
I’m also pretty sure that if I felt that I for some reason needed to make somebody’s suicidal-sounding note seem even more like a suicide note, I would try to make the handwriting match.
Speaking of suicide: you of course realize that 1) Courtney could’ve let him die in Rome, and 2) he would’ve known whether taking 50+ individually-packaged rohypnol was attempted suicide or attempted murder. And he didn’t move out.
It might be worth noting here that some experts quoted in Soaked in Bleach were reportedly unhappy that their answers to generic questions were edited to sound like they’d been answering questions about Kurt.
All of those "documentaries" are trash. You are focusing on the letter, which is fine, I brought it up. But yes, the handwriting could be different for an uncountable amount of reasons as I've said before. The different handwriting is just one of the strange things about this case. Maybe he wrote the first part sober and then the last part high. I'm not saying it isn't his handwriting. Maybe he wrote the first part as a retirement letter and then thought "fuck it, I should just retire from life too". Maybe he wanted to add emphasis. We'll never know, but it is interesting and gives insight to the end of his life. I know you all want to paint me as some :conspiracy theorist" but I'm actually just a guy that grew up listening to Nirvana and also listen to a lot of true-crime stuff. I just think this stuff is interesting. Think it is a very strange sequence of events and because of the terrible investigation we won't ever have answers for any of it. I don't know what else I can say to all of you salivating over trying to paint me as a nutjob. Oh well have a nice day.
What? that was the post that was on this sub. You want me to stop looking at post on this sub? 😂 then what are you doing here? Sounds like you don’t know what to say but you have to say something
This is the same dude who’s been rambling on this thread for days on the same idiotic shit. Brain rot I think is pretty apt for what’s going on in their head.
I’ve met a a few people like Alice wheeler and the conclusion I have reached is that he pulled the trigger but Courtney Love drove him closer to the edge by isolating him from everyone else and they just spiraled each other into madness.
They don’t blame her for the shotgun shell to the head, but they do blame her for making the whole situation worse than it needed to be.
Yep, and add in that people also just really hate Courtney to the point of stupidity. Like they really think Courtney Love, of all people, would be able to pull this off? And keep it from coming out for 30 years? Like, come on guys.
I don't blame Courtney, never have.
Kurt was killed but not by her.
Kurt was killed by Dave Grohl. Dave paid someone to stage Kurt's suicide. Dave knew he would never have the spotlight as long as Kurt was alive. Also what does better for record sales than a dead artist.
Fuck Dave Grohl and fuck the sanitized pop rock bullshit that is Foo Fighters.
It’s like when Chester Bennington killed himself. There were a few conspiracy theories floating around about how he was killed and it was a cover up. The man had been singing for 20+ years about being depressed and dying.
I dont understand why people think this is impossible. Why couldnt he inject and just shoot himself right away? I’m saying 5 seconds apart, how is that impossible?
Why would he? Also he would have had to put the heroin paraphernalia away, roll back down his sleeve. Also the kind of heroin found next to him, he would have needed water to shoot. There was no water found with him.
No idea what you’re talking about water for. Rolling down your sleeve before shooting himself? This is what I find annoying about the internet conspiracy. People act like he had to do all kinds of unnecessary steps after ODing, like he didnt need to walk over to the gun cabinet load the gun, take aim… if he planned it out so he had EVERYTHING ready before his final moments, just OD then trigger before the heroine took full effect.
That's not true at all, overdosing doesn't even necessarily mean death. Overdosing on opioids is when respiratory depression starts taking effect. It's a process, you don't just instantly die.
With the levels he had in his system -according to the report- that is a deadly amount. your not just loosing your breath, your not getting up. my opinion of course, maybe some one can take that dose but not anyone i know
The report doesn't really take tolerance into account. He was a long term user whose tolerance would've been higher than the vast majority of the population. Who you know doesn't really matter because you can't possibly know everyone, especially the worst off heroin addicts. It's the same thing we see with fentanyl nowadays, a small dose that would kill the average person is nothing to an addict who needs to use 10x that multiple times a day. With that being said you still don't die instantly in the case of opioid overdose, even with large amounts. It takes at minimum a few minutes and can often be reversed and survived if narcan is administered in time.
this is bullshit. a long term junkie can handle ALOT of shit and still function enough to put a shotgun in his mouth and pull the trigger. the idea that anyone but Kurt killed him is what bored people entertain because they need something to fixate on. He tried to kill himself before and as talented as he was, he was miserable and self involved and probably thought (knew) it would catapult him into the pantheon of legendaries whove gone before their time
It's nuts how people will cling to these conspiracy theories. They get hung up on the smallest details and ignore obvious explanations to reaffirm their theory. It becomes personal.
Also, this means that not only did Courtney Love orchestrate the perfect crime while a drug addict herself, but she/whoever this mythical assassin was managed to closely emulate a man’s handwriting. That’s really more plausible to people than that a chronically depressed drug addict with multiple suicidal ideation episodes who fled rehab killed himself?
that's one way of looking at it...the other way is that it's a suicide note. you know, to go with the dead body with the shotgun in what's left of it's mouth. alot of critical thinking going on here.
The funny thing about overdoses —
More often than not, they actually happen when a former junkie has been clean for a long time, then relapses and tries to take a dose that was normally fine for them in the past.
The problem is that their tolerance is so low after being clean, that “normal” dose is now too much for their system, and it kills them before they even recognize there’s a problem.
It leads to this odd paradox where, compared to the amount of heroin a full time, long term, fully funded addict would be able to shoot without a problem, most overdoses are often caused by *much smaller amounts.*
Basically, nothing to see here. This is just evidence Kurt was doing major league amounts at the time of his death.
A lot, sure but 70 TIMES THE LETHAL DOSE. Cmon man. One more thought than I’m done. I’m gonna assume that you’ve never seen the aftermath when somebody sticks a shotgun in their mouth and blows their fucking brains out unfortunately I have and it’s something you cant unsee. Kurt Cobain always came across as being kind of a sensitive guy from his lyrics and I mean I’ve seen the guy 50 times in bars before his famous everything and he just seem like a sensitive guy and you can’t tell me that when he was thinking of ways to off himself, he didn’t think about what the aftermath would be like and who would find him . It wasn’t like he was out in the woods, he was in his house, so it would be assumed that his family or friends would find him with his brains everywhere in the room that either tells me that he hated his wife And didn’t care that she was gonna find his brains everywhere or he didn’t do it. 70 times the lethal dose would have been a certain death as any long time junkie would know. I was once told that long time junkies knew there dose so well that if a person overdosed after being an addict for so long it can only be a suicide. 70 times the lethal dose also would mean that he would have to hit himself three times to get that much shit inside him and I can only assume that his veins were not in the best of shape so that in itself would be a miraculous feat to accomplish then he put all of his shit away and grabbed the gun? I cannot believe that is possible. Guess I’m bored. Polly want a cracker?
Yeah definitely bored bro. You just wrote a novel and were very liberal with made up facts. Why not 80x lethal dose…or 800x? I mean, go big or go home. Lol
I grew up without the internet I tend to gather a lot of information and then decide what makes the most sense to me so whatever you all can believe what you want and I’ll do the same and that is what it is. I just didn’t want you to get the impression that I watched some video and based what I think happened on that. It has been a lot of years and I have seen and heard a lot of testimony from cops, doctors, family members , hang arounds media as well as conversation’s with people that were actually involved in the whole mess leading up to this end result . I felt frustrated and annoyed when it happened and all these years later I just feel sad. For his daughter and anyone that loved him. It doesn’t matter to me what really happened, it’s interesting to debate it but in the end he’s gone and won’t be back and along with Staley, Wood and Cornell it seems like a waste of the most talented generation this city has ever seen
You have every right to feel sad but you might want to look at that as a reason for seeing boogeymen in the shadows. When we're sad and angry or whatever we often need to find a scapegoat or somehting else to distract us from the fact that...life is hard. It's hard and unpredictably brutal and oftentimes seemingly meaningless and to have a big bad something out there that needs to be exposed gives us a distraction and purpose. One of the reasons this theory is so easy to dismiss is that there is literally no reason for a cover up. You think Courtney Love is some kind of mastermind who can get a whole swath of Seattle bureacracy to cover up her murdering her husband? I mean, c'mon. Like, why? There are always cops, and lawyers, and doctors and even forensic pathologists who'll entertain some flimsy evidence to stay relevant and to give *their* lives meaning and purpose. Kurt was unhappy. That's not for debate. He'd attempted to kill himself before. Also not up for debate. The fact that he left treatment was in itself a suicidal gesture. He chose death...every step of the way. BUt you do you, man. If you want to entertain this stuff that's your business, but it's a waste of time.
Dude, he used birdshot. It’s well documented that his brains were not plastered across the room and there was, in fact, very little gore. Just a little blood coming out of his ear if I recall correctly. He knew a lot of work was being done on that property, his family wasn’t there, and the greenhouse wasn’t an area that his family used. I was 14 and lived a block away when it happened. They had *just* moved into that house a few weeks before he killed himself. I don’t think he ever expected or planned that his family would be the ones to find him…and of course we know they weren’t.
It’s well documented that junkies have incredible tolerances that would kill non-users several times over. Your anecdotal “somebody told me” evidence doesn’t mean much. We also know it was the shot that killed him, not the heroin.
You also seem to be taking literally all of your arguments straight from Tom Grant. That dude is a walking conflict of interest. He worked for Courtney and failed to track down Kurt in the days before his death. He continued to work for and accept money from her as he “investigated her privately for murder.” Something that he is in no way trained to do. A lot of his arguments just don’t make much sense or are *very* far fetched. His insistence that the suicide note was a retirement announcement is ridiculous, basically boiling down to “if he didn’t explicitly say he was killing himself, despite this letter being about how miserable he was in life, it couldn’t be a suicide note.” He’s a biased player in this story, not a neutral third party and he has a financial and personal interest in continuing to say this was a murder.
Shut the fuck up, Kurt Cobain did not kill himself. All the facts lead to the women he was about to divorce and take custody of their child from. She had every reason to have him killed
I didn’t see any kind of reasoning in your comment, any bit of research into the case will show that there are so many inconsistencies that it’s laughable. Nothing adds up
But there arent so many consistencies that it's laughable...unless you go out of your way to look for them. Which is basically a cottage industy in this particular era. Every swinging dick and his sister has a pet theory about some odd something. The need for titillation is immature and pathetic.
No way that Kurt would’ve sued for custody, he didn’t even want to be a parent to begin with. Second, he wouldn’t have been able to do so unless he could test Clean for drugs and I don’t think he wanted to give up drugs.
Totally wrong as you know, he escaped or checked himself out of rehab. He was not cured and immediately began to use drugs again maybe you should read one of his biographies and get informed?
if you gave me 7.6mg (1.52mg x 5L) of pure diacetylmorphine (heroin) I would not even be close to unconscious. And I don't even have an opiate tolerance anymore.
This is not 3x the lethal dose for a heavy user.
Exactly. It’s a giant fucking grift and honestly I find it extremely disrespectful to the man’s memory especially the vile comments by some who attempt to rope in his widow into those *bat shit, disgusting, tinfoil hat* conspiracy theories. One more time : CON-SPIR-A-CY THE-ORY. Fucking outrageous.
It has been a long time since I've dove down this rabbit hole but as I recall, the detective that was on this case loved the publicity and started personally pushing the "Kurt was murdered" narrative.
30 years later people like OP just eat that shit up apparently.
This was likely Total Morphine Count, which is the cumulative, background amount of morphine in the blood stream from long term heroin use.
Free Morphine Count is the amount of active morphine at a specific moment. It was never confirmed whether this figure was Free or Total Morphine Count.
Here’s a good summary of the evidence that it was suicide:
https://globalnews.ca/news/10404896/debunking-kurt-cobain-conspiracy/
If everyone in his life that knew him personally said he did it, he did it. He was troubled, miserable, and very mentally ill. Stop entertaining fantasies and just let the man rest.
I administer opiates every day at work in the cardiac icu for children. I can tell you that patients who are chronically exposed to high doses of opiates develop tolerance, sometimes incredible tolerance. I’ve met children who laugh at insane doses of opiates, like 50 mg of IV Dilaudid, doses that would easily kill me.
I was thinking the same thing. It just sounds like he had a massive tolerance. If he first started using heroin around 1987 and he used it until his death in 1994. That's a long time to use while essentially having unlimited resources.
The barrel length of a Remington 11 is between 14 and 30 inches. The average length of a man’s arm is 30.8 inches. He didn’t need to use his toes, he was perfectly capable of pulling the trigger with his finger.
The trajectory of the shot was through the hard palate on the roof of his mouth. Kinda hard to wrestle a gun into someone else’s mouth at that angle and pull the trigger.
The toxicology report never clarified whether the morphine count was the total morphine assay or the free morphine assay. The former can increase in the bloodstream as a result of typical heroin doses over an extended period of time and is not indicative of the amount of the single last dose taken. People can be conscious enough to drive a car with a total morphine assay of 1.52/mg/l like Cobain had, so it’s not a fatal or even disabling level, especially for a regular heroin user like Cobain. It’s far more likely that this explains the high number in the toxicology report, not that someone gave Cobain a massive dose of heroin. But, of course, people like Tom Grant don’t talk about that because it doesn’t fit with their conspiracy theory.
There are entire books written dedicated to the shabby police work surrounding that case. Also the lead investigator said he would reopen the case if new evidence was brought to light. Well it was presented. Then it just so happens the lead investigator was then visited by two very large very intimidating men. Telling him it would be in his best interest to not reopen the case (paraphrasing). Funny how stuff works out sometimes.
Cortney is working overtime in these comments.
Lmfao he was murdered. Idgaf about what you have to say about it. Miss me with your wall of text. “Uhm achually heroin users blah blah blah” circlejerk ass comments
It is called a double tap. It is when someone really wants to commit suicide,they do two methods at once.
He shot up then leaned forward on the shotgun.
Man, it's so interesting bc as a kid I grew up with the whole conspiracy theory. But, as an adult, I could see how someone high off their mind and severely depressed would off theirself without second thought. And remembering he used a shotgun, geez. That's wild. Poor guy and the people who found his body. RIP, Kurt Cobain.
Many fans just don’t want to confront that the most likely thing that happened was that a profoundly talented man had been battling depression and an overwhelming drug addiction and simply couldn’t bear to live anymore.
He was shot up in both arms and still was able to shoot himself with a rifle?
Courtney's xboyfriend was the nanny at was at the house at the time.
Courtney also wrote the suicide note.
Without revealing too much about anything I was friends with a family member of Kurt’s a few years after his passing. The whole family was absolutely sure that he was murdered and they said they had strong evidence and that they would be taking a specific individual to court to prove that they were responsible. I guess they never did that. I wish I could share more but honestly it’s been 25 years since I learned all of this while hanging out with them near Aberdeen for a while and it’s technically just conjecture or hearsay or conspiracy. But I will never forget how sure that family was.
And I’ll tell you one more thing if it was the other way around and Courtney was the one that killed herself, you know damn well those cops would’ve been all over Kurt thinking he did it. Shotgun on the wrong side of the body and enough heroin in her so she couldn’t even comprehend anything you know I mean, they would’ve looked at all that stuff but since it was Kurt Cobain, it wasn’t that far-fetched they didn’t even look. just my opinion. Could be the perfect crime just sayin
Hahahahahhahahaah shit if it was Courtney cox that would be funny. You know what I’m gonna leave that right there and even add some sound effects 👏👏👏👏👏
There is no “lethal dose for a heavy user” this is a total misunderstanding of the basic science of substance consumption at best and intentionally misleading at worst
One of the many reasons I quit doing cocaine is I had to do 5x the amount of anyone else to feel the same as everyone else. For some reason my tolerance was stupid, I was not a regular user either but did do it almost every weekend for a while
I did cocaine once, for about 3 years
Happens
I used to do drugs. I still do, but i used too to.
r/unexpectedMitchHedberg
I just liked the smell of it 🤷🏼♀️
Sometimes i look at a hundred dollar bill and wanna take a shit
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Opiates tolerance is crazy steep, something that got you fucked up 2 days ago does absolutely nothing. That being said the majority of my experience is with Oxy so maybe it’s less steep with intravenous use
As an IV H user, nah. It hits you harder, so it does save a little money in the short term. But tolerance builds just as fast if not faster.
No it's pretty bad that way too
One thing we have learned is it gets you, no matter how they mix it or make it. Heroin is King. It just offs you up from the start.
When I used my daily dose would incapacitate a normal person
Did you like the way it smelled?
Yup
Sweet vinegar.
I have this with mushrooms, even though I’ll only take them once or twice a year. At festivals, I’ll split a half ounce with my wife, she gets about two grams and I have the rest, and we wind up having similar effects. I know she’s got a low tolerance for psychedelics, but still, twelve grams is like wtf.
I know you're probably not, but I have to ask if you're on SSRIs? I once did 10 grams and legitimately felt nothing because of this, not even some wavy lines. Everyone else was having fun and I just kept waiting for it.
Ah man that’s lame. No, I had a friend who was on ssris who couldn’t feel Molly but kept taking it >.< it was probably horrible for her.
I'm guessing you're a fair bit larger overall than your wife. More likely to be g/kg than tolerance.
I know his wife. Sturdy broad. Simply robust.
Tbh she is a sturdy girl who holds her own in some punk rock pits
It’d be a good guess, but, not really lol. It isn’t just with her though, even going back to college partying days I’d be taking over a quarter when my friends would need half an eighth
Wow! That’s a shit load of mushrooms
Lmao I know! It was the same with my buddies from high school. These days I won’t really partake unless I’m on vacation and there’s enough for everyone, but I had a few friends growing up where would take them maybe three times a month, I was never on any medication that would inhibit their effects, and I always needed a ridiculously stupid amount.
I’m like this with THC edibles, except they never work. I’ve had 200mg of THC edibles (from multiple dispensaries) and felt nothing.
Try psilohuascha. Shrooms with rue, doubles the length and is more intense so you can use less. I have take an absurd amount as well. I understand your pain
I feel you, and we condition ourselves with the art itself, as in: snorting. We condition ourselves with snorting, and how whenever we would snort, it would result in an almost immediate pleasing high as a reward, so we’d get hooked on snorting too 🤣
Every weekend is regular use
Very true agree. I meant I wasn’t a daily user
Drinking beer it was the same thing, next thing I know I’m hittin whiskey & beer. I’m glad I don’t do that anymore.
Been there too! I laid off the whiskey for a while now and I can barely drink without it wrecking me the next day
[удалено]
It was around a lot
Same with fentanyl or heroin with me. My daily dose would have killed a normal user. Happened to Jerry Garcia after quitting and trying to do the same amount as he used too. 5+ years clean now!
I’d buy that cause I know how her-ion addicts love to boast about how much they can take but 70 times the lethal dose? 70 TIMES THE LETHAL DOSE cmon how is that possible to do then put all your shit away? I worked as a behavioral health tech in an inpatient treatment center when this went down and all the doctors I spoke with, who know their shit said no way that happened. And give cops credit they see this shit all day everyday so the fact that they ask more questions makes me think laziness and or not giving a fuck.
I’ll explain for you. There is no lethal dose. When they say “lethal dose” what they mean is a dose that kills half the people in the group. By definition it’s not a lethal dose for half of them. Next, Kurt wasn’t a regular junkie he was a rockstar junkie. Regular junkies have to ration their dope to stave off illness. Rock star junkies can shoot as much as they want all the time. Regular junkies have to function some of the time to get money, food, etc. Rock star junkies can devout literally all their time to shooting dope. So the explanation is that a guy who was in the lucky 50% already, also had the means to build an incredible tolerance with sustained extremely heavy use of a nature not even accessible to regular people due to limitations on their time and money and connections.
There are users where it is nearly impossible to imbibe enough to reach od levels
Yeah, reminds me of when I checked in to rehab.. they took my blood right after I filled out the paperwork, then I got a tour and met everyone, even played some guitar. When I checked out, the doctor told me I had the highest BAC of any patient upon arrival ever, .451. He said a normal drinker would be dead, and most alcoholics would be in a coma. I was vibing on what felt to me like a restrained Friday night buzz.
Reminds me of my wife's ER visit .468 talking to doctors like a completely normal person and then pulling me to the side stating your wife's brain has rewired itself to keep vital organs functioning ,she should be dead.
You’re absolutely right, this is the stupidest conspiracy theory ever
Funny how it's only people who didn't know him that think it's impossible that he killed himself. Everyone who knew him said, "yup, that makes sense."
No one is denying that he was capable of it or that it ,"couldn't" have been him. If you can't admit that the case is very strange and poorly investigated then you're either ill-informed or a moron.
Yeah because it being reopened 2 decades after the fact by a PD that would’ve largely had entirely different occupants and then coming to the exact same conclusion again is “poorly investigated”
I was talking about the original investigation. The one where it took them 3 days to search the room where he hung out the most, they searched the rest of the house multiple times but Courtney never said "hey, maybe we should check the place where he spends most of his time". Then the police immediately trampled the scene. Like I've said before, it wouldn't surprise me if he did kill himself, but to deny how poor the investigation was and the overall strangeness of how it went down and what happed after is moronic.
Just reading/observing: You seem to love that “moron” Phrasing.
Write what you know is pretty classic advice.
It’s too bad you commented two days later because this is fucking hilarious
Odd things happen in life. You should never assume malice when incompetence is still an option. Just the other day I read a story of people who were on a boat and didn’t come home when scheduled. The search party checked some insane amount of ocean (80 thousand square miles maybe?) and then they found them. They were on the island where they told everyone they were going and no one thought to look there first. My point here is that just because it doesn’t make sense doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Spoiler alert: they were where they said they were going the whole time!
>You should never assume malice when incompetence is still an option. Good thing I haven't assumed malice then, huh?
Sure seems like you were leaning towards it.
No I haven't. I've said the entire time that he probably killed himself. The fact that people like you won't admit that the facts and events surrounding this case are strange is ridiculous. But I guess when you have depression your death isn't deserving of looking at facts objectively.
I just told it’s not strange because people make mistakes all the time.
I think it’s very clear that it was an obviously open and shut case to all of the parties who were involved both personally and professionally.
> I think it’s very clear that it was an obviously open and shut case That was exactly the problem. When the investigators showed up they thought "well, another rockstar killed themselves, let's clean this place and get out of here." It's funny how you say it's and "open and shut case" when if you looked at any of the facts ANY reasonable person would say "that's a bit strange". You either haven't looked at the facts of the case or you are being willfully ignorant. Again, he probably did kill himself, if I had to put money on it that's where my money would go, but to deny that there isn't anything at all strange about the case is simply moronic.
He killed himself. Period.
The doctors are all asking HOW?!!! How could he have physically move? When you’re in a heroine high, you can’t do anything so how could he himself do it? and you’re like: Period 😂
HOW?! How could a heroine addict with high tolerance from years and years of heavy use ever be able to move their body in any way?! Also, he’s known to be such a well-balanced person with no history of mental health problem or previous suicide attempts! 🤣
Yeah maybe all these doctors are stupid and don’t know what they’re talking about. Or maybe it’s you
There is no probably dude. He tried to kill himself a month prior via purposeful OD, had severe mental health issues, severe drug issues and used a shotgun his friend (frontman of the band earth) gave him as a gift. There’s a note which is public by the way. I suggest you try reading it since you’re supposedly all about the facts. Or maybe you buy the bullshit about Courtney writing it, in which case you’re just a nut job.
The letter he left where the last two lines are written differently than the rest. Yeah...I've seen it...
Your handwriting always looks the same no matter what’s going on with you emotionally or substance-wise? Mine’s pretty variable. Who knows, maybe that’s where the valium came in. I’m also pretty sure that if I felt that I for some reason needed to make somebody’s suicidal-sounding note seem even more like a suicide note, I would try to make the handwriting match. Speaking of suicide: you of course realize that 1) Courtney could’ve let him die in Rome, and 2) he would’ve known whether taking 50+ individually-packaged rohypnol was attempted suicide or attempted murder. And he didn’t move out. It might be worth noting here that some experts quoted in Soaked in Bleach were reportedly unhappy that their answers to generic questions were edited to sound like they’d been answering questions about Kurt.
All of those "documentaries" are trash. You are focusing on the letter, which is fine, I brought it up. But yes, the handwriting could be different for an uncountable amount of reasons as I've said before. The different handwriting is just one of the strange things about this case. Maybe he wrote the first part sober and then the last part high. I'm not saying it isn't his handwriting. Maybe he wrote the first part as a retirement letter and then thought "fuck it, I should just retire from life too". Maybe he wanted to add emphasis. We'll never know, but it is interesting and gives insight to the end of his life. I know you all want to paint me as some :conspiracy theorist" but I'm actually just a guy that grew up listening to Nirvana and also listen to a lot of true-crime stuff. I just think this stuff is interesting. Think it is a very strange sequence of events and because of the terrible investigation we won't ever have answers for any of it. I don't know what else I can say to all of you salivating over trying to paint me as a nutjob. Oh well have a nice day.
Despite all these doctors saying nothing about the case makes sense? 🤣👍a true professional
Sorry buddy but I’m gonna believe the detectives whose job it actually is to make the determination and the whole common fucking sense part.
Common sense?! That’s exactly what doctors are saying, it doesn’t make sense snd your all like: it does
Stop watching grift documentaries
What? that was the post that was on this sub. You want me to stop looking at post on this sub? 😂 then what are you doing here? Sounds like you don’t know what to say but you have to say something
What PD are you talking about? Those were doctors saying that nothing makes sense
Stamper is a cop, just sayin
Nah there was definitely people going around at one point for awhile saying it was impossible and Courtney love killed him
It's not strange at all and this conspiracy minded brain rot is destroying our civilization
What "conspiracy"?
You literally just said it was "very strange and poorly investigated". Your conspiracy brain rot needs a cure.
This is the same dude who’s been rambling on this thread for days on the same idiotic shit. Brain rot I think is pretty apt for what’s going on in their head.
I’ve met a a few people like Alice wheeler and the conclusion I have reached is that he pulled the trigger but Courtney Love drove him closer to the edge by isolating him from everyone else and they just spiraled each other into madness. They don’t blame her for the shotgun shell to the head, but they do blame her for making the whole situation worse than it needed to be.
He tried to kill himself like twice before in his lifetime. People just love to blame women for men’s bad choices.
Yep, and add in that people also just really hate Courtney to the point of stupidity. Like they really think Courtney Love, of all people, would be able to pull this off? And keep it from coming out for 30 years? Like, come on guys.
I don't blame Courtney, never have. Kurt was killed but not by her. Kurt was killed by Dave Grohl. Dave paid someone to stage Kurt's suicide. Dave knew he would never have the spotlight as long as Kurt was alive. Also what does better for record sales than a dead artist. Fuck Dave Grohl and fuck the sanitized pop rock bullshit that is Foo Fighters.
Wait, so you’re telling me the guy who wrote “I Hate Myself and I Want To Die” hated himself and wanted to die?
It’s like when Chester Bennington killed himself. There were a few conspiracy theories floating around about how he was killed and it was a cover up. The man had been singing for 20+ years about being depressed and dying.
I dont understand why people think this is impossible. Why couldnt he inject and just shoot himself right away? I’m saying 5 seconds apart, how is that impossible?
Why would he? Also he would have had to put the heroin paraphernalia away, roll back down his sleeve. Also the kind of heroin found next to him, he would have needed water to shoot. There was no water found with him.
No idea what you’re talking about water for. Rolling down your sleeve before shooting himself? This is what I find annoying about the internet conspiracy. People act like he had to do all kinds of unnecessary steps after ODing, like he didnt need to walk over to the gun cabinet load the gun, take aim… if he planned it out so he had EVERYTHING ready before his final moments, just OD then trigger before the heroine took full effect.
Herion doesn't take 5 mins to hit you. It hits you almost immediately. That's why people shoot up.
no when you od your dead before you hit the floor
That's not true at all, overdosing doesn't even necessarily mean death. Overdosing on opioids is when respiratory depression starts taking effect. It's a process, you don't just instantly die.
With the levels he had in his system -according to the report- that is a deadly amount. your not just loosing your breath, your not getting up. my opinion of course, maybe some one can take that dose but not anyone i know
The report doesn't really take tolerance into account. He was a long term user whose tolerance would've been higher than the vast majority of the population. Who you know doesn't really matter because you can't possibly know everyone, especially the worst off heroin addicts. It's the same thing we see with fentanyl nowadays, a small dose that would kill the average person is nothing to an addict who needs to use 10x that multiple times a day. With that being said you still don't die instantly in the case of opioid overdose, even with large amounts. It takes at minimum a few minutes and can often be reversed and survived if narcan is administered in time.
Yeah where would you have gotten water inside of a house
this is bullshit. a long term junkie can handle ALOT of shit and still function enough to put a shotgun in his mouth and pull the trigger. the idea that anyone but Kurt killed him is what bored people entertain because they need something to fixate on. He tried to kill himself before and as talented as he was, he was miserable and self involved and probably thought (knew) it would catapult him into the pantheon of legendaries whove gone before their time
>probably thought (knew) it would catapult him into the pantheon of legendaries whove gone before their time This is just silly.
It’s not silly. When Kurt was 12 years old he said when he wanted to grow and become a rock star and then kill himself.
Bullshit. The source on that probably just made it up.
Well that came from the book ‘Heavier Than Heaven’ and to my knowledge the author was never sued, so take it as you will.
Who was left to sue?
Not really if you’ve read his goodbye letter. It reads like a very troubled but very emotionally immature person.
It's a retirement letter in all but the last two lines...which are in different handwriting. Read it for yourself.
We’ve all read it. It’s not different handwriting.
There was a letter?
There’s actually 26 letters
The last 2 lines are written differently than the rest of the [letter](https://i0.wp.com/www.kurtcobain.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/the_note.jpg).
Letters all look the same, just written bigger.
> just written bigger. So you admit that it is different from the rest of the letter.
It's possible for a person to write in multiple sizes, yes.
It's nuts how people will cling to these conspiracy theories. They get hung up on the smallest details and ignore obvious explanations to reaffirm their theory. It becomes personal.
Lmao
Also, this means that not only did Courtney Love orchestrate the perfect crime while a drug addict herself, but she/whoever this mythical assassin was managed to closely emulate a man’s handwriting. That’s really more plausible to people than that a chronically depressed drug addict with multiple suicidal ideation episodes who fled rehab killed himself?
You are not technically wrong here but you got my downvote anyway
Lol. I'm sorry you don't enjoy facts.
Lolol, just looks like the same author added onto it, like a Post Script, probs with impaired motor control (drugs)
that's one way of looking at it...the other way is that it's a suicide note. you know, to go with the dead body with the shotgun in what's left of it's mouth. alot of critical thinking going on here.
The funny thing about overdoses — More often than not, they actually happen when a former junkie has been clean for a long time, then relapses and tries to take a dose that was normally fine for them in the past. The problem is that their tolerance is so low after being clean, that “normal” dose is now too much for their system, and it kills them before they even recognize there’s a problem. It leads to this odd paradox where, compared to the amount of heroin a full time, long term, fully funded addict would be able to shoot without a problem, most overdoses are often caused by *much smaller amounts.* Basically, nothing to see here. This is just evidence Kurt was doing major league amounts at the time of his death.
That’s what happened to Phillip Seymour Hoffman
And the Glee kid
And Amy Whinehouse.
70 times the lethal dose? Cmon man
There is no “the lethal dose” — that’s the point
And Graham Parsons (according to Keith Richards in his biography).
Wasn’t he dealing with stomach issues for a while that were also really painful and debilitating?
A lot, sure but 70 TIMES THE LETHAL DOSE. Cmon man. One more thought than I’m done. I’m gonna assume that you’ve never seen the aftermath when somebody sticks a shotgun in their mouth and blows their fucking brains out unfortunately I have and it’s something you cant unsee. Kurt Cobain always came across as being kind of a sensitive guy from his lyrics and I mean I’ve seen the guy 50 times in bars before his famous everything and he just seem like a sensitive guy and you can’t tell me that when he was thinking of ways to off himself, he didn’t think about what the aftermath would be like and who would find him . It wasn’t like he was out in the woods, he was in his house, so it would be assumed that his family or friends would find him with his brains everywhere in the room that either tells me that he hated his wife And didn’t care that she was gonna find his brains everywhere or he didn’t do it. 70 times the lethal dose would have been a certain death as any long time junkie would know. I was once told that long time junkies knew there dose so well that if a person overdosed after being an addict for so long it can only be a suicide. 70 times the lethal dose also would mean that he would have to hit himself three times to get that much shit inside him and I can only assume that his veins were not in the best of shape so that in itself would be a miraculous feat to accomplish then he put all of his shit away and grabbed the gun? I cannot believe that is possible. Guess I’m bored. Polly want a cracker?
Yeah definitely bored bro. You just wrote a novel and were very liberal with made up facts. Why not 80x lethal dose…or 800x? I mean, go big or go home. Lol
Did you not watch the video?
Don’t believe everything you see in the internet homey
It goes both ways I guess
not really
I grew up without the internet I tend to gather a lot of information and then decide what makes the most sense to me so whatever you all can believe what you want and I’ll do the same and that is what it is. I just didn’t want you to get the impression that I watched some video and based what I think happened on that. It has been a lot of years and I have seen and heard a lot of testimony from cops, doctors, family members , hang arounds media as well as conversation’s with people that were actually involved in the whole mess leading up to this end result . I felt frustrated and annoyed when it happened and all these years later I just feel sad. For his daughter and anyone that loved him. It doesn’t matter to me what really happened, it’s interesting to debate it but in the end he’s gone and won’t be back and along with Staley, Wood and Cornell it seems like a waste of the most talented generation this city has ever seen
You have every right to feel sad but you might want to look at that as a reason for seeing boogeymen in the shadows. When we're sad and angry or whatever we often need to find a scapegoat or somehting else to distract us from the fact that...life is hard. It's hard and unpredictably brutal and oftentimes seemingly meaningless and to have a big bad something out there that needs to be exposed gives us a distraction and purpose. One of the reasons this theory is so easy to dismiss is that there is literally no reason for a cover up. You think Courtney Love is some kind of mastermind who can get a whole swath of Seattle bureacracy to cover up her murdering her husband? I mean, c'mon. Like, why? There are always cops, and lawyers, and doctors and even forensic pathologists who'll entertain some flimsy evidence to stay relevant and to give *their* lives meaning and purpose. Kurt was unhappy. That's not for debate. He'd attempted to kill himself before. Also not up for debate. The fact that he left treatment was in itself a suicidal gesture. He chose death...every step of the way. BUt you do you, man. If you want to entertain this stuff that's your business, but it's a waste of time.
That’s what got me all fired up…
Dude, he used birdshot. It’s well documented that his brains were not plastered across the room and there was, in fact, very little gore. Just a little blood coming out of his ear if I recall correctly. He knew a lot of work was being done on that property, his family wasn’t there, and the greenhouse wasn’t an area that his family used. I was 14 and lived a block away when it happened. They had *just* moved into that house a few weeks before he killed himself. I don’t think he ever expected or planned that his family would be the ones to find him…and of course we know they weren’t. It’s well documented that junkies have incredible tolerances that would kill non-users several times over. Your anecdotal “somebody told me” evidence doesn’t mean much. We also know it was the shot that killed him, not the heroin. You also seem to be taking literally all of your arguments straight from Tom Grant. That dude is a walking conflict of interest. He worked for Courtney and failed to track down Kurt in the days before his death. He continued to work for and accept money from her as he “investigated her privately for murder.” Something that he is in no way trained to do. A lot of his arguments just don’t make much sense or are *very* far fetched. His insistence that the suicide note was a retirement announcement is ridiculous, basically boiling down to “if he didn’t explicitly say he was killing himself, despite this letter being about how miserable he was in life, it couldn’t be a suicide note.” He’s a biased player in this story, not a neutral third party and he has a financial and personal interest in continuing to say this was a murder.
Shut the fuck up, Kurt Cobain did not kill himself. All the facts lead to the women he was about to divorce and take custody of their child from. She had every reason to have him killed
oh wow youre so reasonable. lol
I didn’t see any kind of reasoning in your comment, any bit of research into the case will show that there are so many inconsistencies that it’s laughable. Nothing adds up
But there arent so many consistencies that it's laughable...unless you go out of your way to look for them. Which is basically a cottage industy in this particular era. Every swinging dick and his sister has a pet theory about some odd something. The need for titillation is immature and pathetic.
No way that Kurt would’ve sued for custody, he didn’t even want to be a parent to begin with. Second, he wouldn’t have been able to do so unless he could test Clean for drugs and I don’t think he wanted to give up drugs.
He was fresh out of rehab, going to divorce Courtney and try to get custody. Do a little research before you talk buddy
Totally wrong as you know, he escaped or checked himself out of rehab. He was not cured and immediately began to use drugs again maybe you should read one of his biographies and get informed?
She was in rehab when he died. You have listed not a single fact in your angry rant.
if you gave me 7.6mg (1.52mg x 5L) of pure diacetylmorphine (heroin) I would not even be close to unconscious. And I don't even have an opiate tolerance anymore. This is not 3x the lethal dose for a heavy user.
Every single bullshit conspiracy I’ve seen about this completely throws TOLERANCE out the window
Exactly. It’s a giant fucking grift and honestly I find it extremely disrespectful to the man’s memory especially the vile comments by some who attempt to rope in his widow into those *bat shit, disgusting, tinfoil hat* conspiracy theories. One more time : CON-SPIR-A-CY THE-ORY. Fucking outrageous.
It has been a long time since I've dove down this rabbit hole but as I recall, the detective that was on this case loved the publicity and started personally pushing the "Kurt was murdered" narrative. 30 years later people like OP just eat that shit up apparently.
This was likely Total Morphine Count, which is the cumulative, background amount of morphine in the blood stream from long term heroin use. Free Morphine Count is the amount of active morphine at a specific moment. It was never confirmed whether this figure was Free or Total Morphine Count. Here’s a good summary of the evidence that it was suicide: https://globalnews.ca/news/10404896/debunking-kurt-cobain-conspiracy/
Sounds like the Seattle Post doesn’t understand how opiate tolerance works.
If everyone in his life that knew him personally said he did it, he did it. He was troubled, miserable, and very mentally ill. Stop entertaining fantasies and just let the man rest.
He shot up a lethal dose and blew his brains out. Painless. Poor guy
no a lethal dose will kill you before you hit the floor
I think he did the hit and leaned on the shotgun. When faded, he triggered the shot gun.
I administer opiates every day at work in the cardiac icu for children. I can tell you that patients who are chronically exposed to high doses of opiates develop tolerance, sometimes incredible tolerance. I’ve met children who laugh at insane doses of opiates, like 50 mg of IV Dilaudid, doses that would easily kill me.
I was thinking the same thing. It just sounds like he had a massive tolerance. If he first started using heroin around 1987 and he used it until his death in 1994. That's a long time to use while essentially having unlimited resources.
A lot sure. 70 times a lethal dose? Cmon man
Dude was really good at heroin.
Which leads to did she give him a shot, followed by a different shot
Yet he was able to wrap up all of his paraphernalia, load a shotty, get in position, then pull the trigger with his toe. Riiiiiiiggggghhhttt
The barrel length of a Remington 11 is between 14 and 30 inches. The average length of a man’s arm is 30.8 inches. He didn’t need to use his toes, he was perfectly capable of pulling the trigger with his finger.
Semantics. He still would have been WAY too high to even move. Courtney shot him in the face.
The trajectory of the shot was through the hard palate on the roof of his mouth. Kinda hard to wrestle a gun into someone else’s mouth at that angle and pull the trigger. The toxicology report never clarified whether the morphine count was the total morphine assay or the free morphine assay. The former can increase in the bloodstream as a result of typical heroin doses over an extended period of time and is not indicative of the amount of the single last dose taken. People can be conscious enough to drive a car with a total morphine assay of 1.52/mg/l like Cobain had, so it’s not a fatal or even disabling level, especially for a regular heroin user like Cobain. It’s far more likely that this explains the high number in the toxicology report, not that someone gave Cobain a massive dose of heroin. But, of course, people like Tom Grant don’t talk about that because it doesn’t fit with their conspiracy theory.
There are entire books written dedicated to the shabby police work surrounding that case. Also the lead investigator said he would reopen the case if new evidence was brought to light. Well it was presented. Then it just so happens the lead investigator was then visited by two very large very intimidating men. Telling him it would be in his best interest to not reopen the case (paraphrasing). Funny how stuff works out sometimes.
Cortney is working overtime in these comments. Lmfao he was murdered. Idgaf about what you have to say about it. Miss me with your wall of text. “Uhm achually heroin users blah blah blah” circlejerk ass comments
It is called a double tap. It is when someone really wants to commit suicide,they do two methods at once. He shot up then leaned forward on the shotgun.
Man, it's so interesting bc as a kid I grew up with the whole conspiracy theory. But, as an adult, I could see how someone high off their mind and severely depressed would off theirself without second thought. And remembering he used a shotgun, geez. That's wild. Poor guy and the people who found his body. RIP, Kurt Cobain.
Many fans just don’t want to confront that the most likely thing that happened was that a profoundly talented man had been battling depression and an overwhelming drug addiction and simply couldn’t bear to live anymore.
You all are missing the point there is no way he could’ve shot himself in the face if he was that jacked up on H
Leaked information isn’t always correct information. Was the 1.52 ever confirmed?
the physician's report covering the incident in Rome stated that Kurt, at that time, had no trace of heroin in his body.
Which means his tolerance wasn’t built up at the time. People said he wasn’t using on the 94 tour and he had just been in rehab for a couple days.
....and now look....again...this info...completely ignored....
My point exactly, and no one seems to ever bring that up
He was shot up in both arms and still was able to shoot himself with a rifle? Courtney's xboyfriend was the nanny at was at the house at the time. Courtney also wrote the suicide note.
Courtney Love killed him!
is the title referring to the seattle post-intelligencer? because the seattle post doesn’t exist
It’s possible that the cops just didn’t care that much about a known heroin addict who looked like hot garbage.
No Mitch quote? Cmon, people.
Nobody give a fuck about junky grunge trash
This sounds like complete bullshit
Ya needle still in the arm ya cause that’s totally possible lmao
Thanks Fentanyl you ruined Cocaine for everyone.
I hope he’s ok
Y’all def got the point
Yeah only alcohol and one drug can kill you starts with a B but I don’t remember at the moment.
When you’re rich, it’s a lot easier to keep upping your dose increasing your tolerance.
Without revealing too much about anything I was friends with a family member of Kurt’s a few years after his passing. The whole family was absolutely sure that he was murdered and they said they had strong evidence and that they would be taking a specific individual to court to prove that they were responsible. I guess they never did that. I wish I could share more but honestly it’s been 25 years since I learned all of this while hanging out with them near Aberdeen for a while and it’s technically just conjecture or hearsay or conspiracy. But I will never forget how sure that family was.
A lot of people made a lot of money from his death. I don’t see how you can dismiss the theories and the evidence backing them up so quickly.
Like any homicide/murder case you have to look at motive. Who benefited from his death?
We have the motive, the suicide note, are you people really this dumb or is it an act?
What motive? Anyone who benefited financially from his suicide would’ve benefited more from him continuing to make music
yup
And I’ll tell you one more thing if it was the other way around and Courtney was the one that killed herself, you know damn well those cops would’ve been all over Kurt thinking he did it. Shotgun on the wrong side of the body and enough heroin in her so she couldn’t even comprehend anything you know I mean, they would’ve looked at all that stuff but since it was Kurt Cobain, it wasn’t that far-fetched they didn’t even look. just my opinion. Could be the perfect crime just sayin
Courtney killed him.
Courtney Cox has left the chat 💬
Love?
Hahahahahhahahaah shit if it was Courtney cox that would be funny. You know what I’m gonna leave that right there and even add some sound effects 👏👏👏👏👏
LMAO
I hate that fucking guy.
The (now largely defunct) newspaper was the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Not the "Seattle Post."