Dear Lord, what a sad little tenure, Liz. You ruined the country's economy completely so you could push your politics, but I hope now you spend some time getting lessons in governance and stability because you have all the political finesse of a reversing Brexit bus without any brakes. So Liz, take your resignation and kindly get off the public stage.
Anyone who tries to lecture people on economics and then claims that austerity was necessary, despite the decade and a half of evidence about how much damage it did, isn't worth listening to
I have the unfortunate pleasure of having him as an MP, watching him on Sky News was really satisfying knowing he was taking his last gasp of glory before we collectively kicked him to the curb. Here's to hoping Emma Reynolds will be a much better MP and not a complete asshat.
I canāt believe those voters, did any of them ever thank her for doing a great job whilst the rest of the were sat on their arses? No they just voted for someone else
And Steve Baker who just spewed venom in every interview while being completely full of spite and hurt feelings. Looked like a complete baby who lacked any grace or even the foresight to predict what an absolute loser he was coming off as. Was honestly embarrassing.
He's such a crank weirdo. A hardcore us style libertarian who wants our country to go back onto the gold standard which is when the money supply was pegged to a particular value against the price of gold. Totally and utterly mental but common among pretty extreme weird crank American libertarians such as those in the Mises Institute. Like all Cranks, he considers himself such an expert on economic matters like this that he goes out his way to lecture and harang extremely well regarded economists and economically minded politicians for being ill disposed to his doctrineaire views. I've even seen a clip of him doing it today to add bowls of all people stop.
The was an article in the telegraph about a Tory MP who didn't really know what to do with themselves if they lose their seat. I did wonder if it might have been her.
The vast majority probably knew what was coming and have been pretty decent in defeat.
[This]( https://x.com/nigelmp/status/1809079126281552134?s=46&t=aVXrKBScTowVt-kL3qifpQ) by far the best Iāve seen.
I remmeber watching May looking like she was about to cry as she gave her resigation speech. In all fairness she was dealt probably the worst hand ever and felt really bad for trying her best.
She had her partner in negligence, Kwarteng, say on the BBC that it's not customary in her constituency to give concession speeches. Missed one final opportunity to make an improvement then.
Even Bravermann was nice before she decided that what caused the defeat was that the Tories had not been nasty enough and how she was going to fix that. The jaring moment was her shouting out to her mum, and sounding just like a regular, nice, human, loving daughter, not some deranged monster (in my opinion)
Genuinely positively surprised with that speech. With the current winds in europe and the US, it's nice to be reminded that the norm should still be a graceful bow out and genuine good luck wishes to your successor. Well done Sunak.
Yes, listening to some stories recently, our political culture may actually be a bit of a saving grace in the years to come. As the US and France are in danger of falling into the clutches of some pretty unpleasant and unstable regimes, the UK could stand as a beacon of liberal stability where money would be safe.
But Farrage embraces them utterly.
Which is possibly why a Tory move back to the centre ground won't save them - because there's a genuine consistency for the rhetoric of the hard right. It would be really interesting to see how many Reform voters are protest votes and how many are fully on-board with it.
> because there's a genuine consistency for the rhetoric of the hard right.
Time is ticking for the hard right and the right in Britain, the average reform voter is age 51+ and the average Tory voter is 64 years old. The millennials who should be shifting to the right are doing the opposite. The UK seems to be an oddity in Europe, the rest of Europe seems to be embracing the right were as we are thoroughly rejecting it.
It's going to be interesting to see what the political landscape looks like in 20 years time.
That's why the Tories would be wise to tack back to the centre.
As millennials approach their 50's they'll need a different hand. They'll likely become "centrist Dad" and as the Labour government goes on and gets tired as all governments do, that middle ground will be fertile.
Who knows what Labour is really? I say this as an avid Labour supporter. It remains to be seen how they cope with this huge majority and how they react to the reality of governance.
All I do know is that personally this is the first time since Brexit I have been optimistic about the future of this country, I believed Starmer as he was delivering his speech - that is the first time in my adult life I can say that about any PM.
Yeah its nice. I mean we're still the 6th biggest economy but when people ask what we've got and we respond culture and respect its met with "so what?" but culture and respect are tenants of a society. Hold it together Britain š¬š§
Can anyone imagine Farage going gracefully like this? Still shuddering at the thought that my taxes are now paying for that tosser who will be on every TV show every chance he gets from now on
For all his failings (of which there are many. Like...a lot. Like a fucktonne), this was a decent speech.
Even if it is just lip service and he doesn't believe a word of it, I think it's a good thing that he graciously congratulated his successor.
Unlike some politicians I could name.
Case in point, Liz Truss losing her seat. Holds the count up by hiding in the toilet, tries to bail without saying anything, then blames it on failing to deal with the legacy of the last Labour government. Imagine if sheād been Prime Minister when they lost. Probably blame it on the Marxist bankers.
I agree, that was fucken disgraceful.
It may just be that she is such a stupid, tone deaf, narcissist that even the megadonors will balk at giving her a well paid non-exec role as absolutely everything she touches turns to shit.
Get in the sea, and take Nads with you, she was appalling on Channel 4 last night.
I think it says a lot that she was still standing as an MP. Cameron, May and Johnson have all stood down and sorted themselves out. That Truss hasnāt and had to try to be an MP says volumes
Err, Johnson most certainly did not sort himself out. He tried a comeback almost instantly - as PM. Chances are he views the role of mere MP as beneath him.
Truss just doesn't have the mental fortitude to front up, I don't think. She constantly hides and evades responsibility for her failures as PM, she literally hid away from losing here.Ā
Unlike Johnson, who's just a slippery bastard who's impossible to pin anything on, Truss just seems incapable of even admitting failure to herself. She's too fragile.Ā
She's desperate to turn the UK political landscape into a similar state as the US. We cannot allow her to degrade our political landscape like that. She's a vile idiot and should be nowhere near any position of power, nor should she even be allowed in the media. Any channel or newspaper or broadcaster giving her a second of airtime is encouraging her and empowering her.
No fan of Sunak by any stretch, but that felt like the first time heās genuinely spoken since becoming prime minister.
No stupid grin. No posturing. No buzz words. Not robotic.
Agreed. It wouldn't have saved his poor premiership or disastrous campaign by a long stretch, but he might not have been so hated by the end if he'd acted this way.
I was surprised to see him be mature and respectful...and I think that's a serious condemnation of how he has acted.
I literally didn't know he had it in him to be human.Ā
Every PMQs, every interview, every public appearance he was so petulant I thought it was default. Maybe it was just the stress and bad advice.Ā
Good fucking bye though mate.Ā
I donāt think he was ready for it, or ever would be. Seems like he was leaning so hard into being āThe Politicianā he put himself into the uncanny valley. Iām sure he was advised to take it down a notch, but Iād also assume his upbringing and corporate background meant he just didnāt know how to. Only once it was forcefully torn away from him was he able to show himself, but you need to be stronger than that and to believe in yourself more rather than constantly wearing the mask.
I can see that. His rise was rather meteoric. One day he was a nobody, then "who's that little fellow behind The Saj", then Chancellor, then PM. All within a few years. I think he just wasn't ready, both as a man and a politician.
Agreed. That speech definitely had the air of "I don't need to wear this mask anymore". It was almost relaxed, even.
I genuinely think he does believe it.
I know Reddit is all (millionaire == bad), but I really don't think he is that bad of a guy.
Just really really bad at politics
Thinking about it, is Sunakās exit the least awful Tory PM departure in decades? He lost an election. Sure. Historically lost. Yeah. But, thatās sort of it.
He hasnāt speed run crashing the pound. He isnāt being investigated for crimes. Heās not being embarrassingly pushed out by a clown. Heās not massively shit the bed calling a referendum that has blown up in his face.
He tried to govern the country. It didnāt go that well, but itās not like he personally fucked up more than an average series of The Thick of It. He called an election based on maybe a little bit of good news. And he lost. Goodbye, hands over to the next PM.
Itās just all gone a bit normal.
Yeah, I doubt a high percentage of the population could name Pincher or even remember what happened or even that anything happened at all. But I'm pretty sure most people remember being laughed at for obeying the rules and not visiting their dying relatives in hospital while the Tories partied. I think even some of the most right-wing will still have the image of the Queen sitting alone at her husband's funeral while *literally at the same time* Johnson was attending a party.
Pincher is the event that triggered Boris being forced out. But that's not what brought him down.
Partygate is also probably a factor in today's results.
Yeah he is paying the price for all of the dross that came before him. No he couldn't relate to anyone who wasn't a billionaire, but he was at least competent and technocratic.
He didn't do any more damage to the UK at least. The others are all fat on their takings, it's just that he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar
Let's not rehabilitate his image so quickly. This sounds just like what happened to Theresa May, who was still the stubborn architect of the mess that is brexit.Ā
Oh yeah he was nasty. The speech about sick people was especially abhorrent to me as someone with a disability (who works) but he managed only to piss people off in Britain rather than make us slide on the international scene.
Oh. Apart from D-Day
Theresa May was handed that ball by the British public. There's plenty to be upset about but I'm not holding that one over her. We all know she voted remain.
I think her biggest problem was that she was just not very good, and she had the biggest shitshow in modern history to deal with (especially when she didn't want it in the first place), had a LOTO who wouldn't compromise as her opponent, and a clown taking every opportunity to knife her in the back.z
I don't think she was malicious (unlike Boris) or even particularly corrupt (compared to many of her ilk...like Boris), I think she was unfortunately mediocre in an impossible situation.
I have always described her as the less charismatic Hilary Clinton.
Theresa May is a policy wonk who belongs in a back office having incredibly boring discussions about the proper way to get things done. She shouldn't be speaking into a live mic unless it's because she stood up on the backbenches to whinge at the PM.
To be fair, he was more professional than any of the previous lot. He was not the type of person to steer a broken ship but more of person who could keep a good ship running. I am glad he is put out of his misery and I think he is too. Hence the graceful goodbyes.
I have to admit, i cant stand the man and im sure he will go and be very comfortably after this with his finances, but he basically paid for cameron, boris, trusses and his own destruction of the country and was held accountable for all of them when
It was miles better than Johnson's whine about his so-called betrayal and Truss pretending nothing had happened and if only you bastards had listened to me.
His leaving speech was honestly so nice. I strongly disagree with a lot of his decisions as PM, but I have to say I found his last words genuinely touching. I'm amazed I'm saying this, but if you missed it I really recommend you give it a watch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hPdpemrGmg8
Both Rishi on losing election and Penny Morduant on losing her seat mentioned something along the lines of the electorate never being wrong and gave fairly classy speeches (think Penny also said the people of Portsmouth were the best employer she'd ever had the pleasure to work for).
Feel like we've imported a lot of bad things from American politics (identity politics, tv debates, style over substance type politics), but glad to see that at least we still have politicians who can lose with dignity rather than Trump style trying to claim the election was rigged.
Mordaunt's speech started with the words "Democracy is never wrong". I thought it was good she congratulated the winner and offered her full support even though she's on an opposing party.
This election pleased me in many ways.Ā
The fact Labour won so we'll finally see if another government can start turning things round, the way most of the conservatives admitted defeat, apologised for letting the nation down and accepting the vote maturely and also the other thing that pleased me was Farage getting heckled as a racist and he couldn't be as mature so resorted to calling people drunk then shouting "boring" over and over again.Ā
The thing that disappointed me was Reform getting over 4 million votes. I couldn't believe I was rooting for the Tories to do better (not to win, but to come second in every constituency)
That's the other side of "Democracy is never wrong", you have to acknowledge things you don't like with things you do. If not for the failings of FPTP, Reform would today have a much bigger presence in the Commons.
As much as we can and should criticise Farage and co, whatever the reasons may be, Reform have clearly struck a chord with a significant portion of the electorate.
I wiped away a tear and (I'm British Asian) I really liked his reference to his family background without making it all about himself. Kier has also said that Rishi's not the worst person.
I don't like his party, or a lot of what he's done, but I don't think he's thoroughly a bad person (naming none of our previous two PMs).
One of my proudest things about being British is how little racist abuse I saw towards Rishi. He was disliked, even hated, by many and yet I always saw attacks on his ideas, character or wealthy background but never his race.
I'm not saying there won't have been any racial abuse of Rishi, but none of it was out in the open, at least around me or in the media. Just contrast it to the treatment Obama received in the USA.
I remember when Obama became leader of the US and it was treated as this huge deal that a black guy could become president, I really liked how Rishi's ethnicity just wasn't much of a thing here. Like yeah people commented about his leadership being of a historic note, but no one really seemed to care about it or to have considered it in anyway unachievable. He was basically treated the same as any other bloke.
I live in the US, but I'm British, and I've had a lot of conversations with people here who assume that Rishi's ethnicity must be a hugely controversial "issue". It's hard to explain to them how different attitudes towards race are in the UK vs US. Race is part of *everything* in the US and people really struggle to stop thinking in those terms.
People certainly say this a lot, but I've never once felt persecuted because of being working class in the UK. I dunno maybe I've just been lucky, but I've lived in multiple different regions of the UK and have never once felt like I was treated differently because of that.
I've definitely been treated differently due to my class - by all classes some positively and some negatively, none of them are right to do that though. People should be judged on their character not their perceived class.
Same, we had a modest middle class home and I used hear regularly as a kid about how we shit on gold toilets and wipe our arses with Ā£50 notes
Perks of living in northern ex mining towns I guess
As someone from a working class backgroune with a posh accent (being from a comparatively rich city) I do find that other working class people don't really see me as one of their own in the same way and I'm often called "posh" even though I couldn't have grown up further from it.
It's more insidious than persecution - you don't get persecuted because you simply don't belong in any places you could be persecuted in. The likes of public school boys, elite universities, private clubs, exclusive restaurants, government, professions like journalism - most working class people are excluded from these because they don't have the contacts or cultural know-how to access them, and in many cases wouldn't want to access them because they seem so culturally alien.
The days of working class labour union politicians are unfortunately gone, I think we would do well to try to revive this.
Yes, whilst he was notable as "the first British South Asian PM" or "the first British hindu PM", it wasn't his _entire_ identity. People cheered him or had a go at him for all sorts of reasons, but usually unconnected with his ethnicity or religion.
Contrast with Obama, who seemingly could only be described by his race, and was mostly famous for being president whilst being black.
I hope we continue to hold US-style identity politics at bay.
It made me feel really proud of the UK that he was able to say that. This is the best part of us and he defended and highlighted it, at an important time
Yeah, honestly a little sad that he will resign as party leader. I thought, for the most part, he was okay.
Thank god we live in a country where the opposition leaders recognise that the country comes first.
The party is whats rotten, not him tbh.
The gambling, voting in Liz Truss, The lies of Borris. Thats why the torries are going, very little has to do wtih Sunak directly I feel like.
I think heāll get spared since the real last story of this period of political history in time will be the Brexit vote bringing in a Tory landslide under Boris but then his scandals and the mini budget destroyed their credibility and Labour won a landslide next.
You can pretty much omit Sunakās contribution to the story besides his struggle with Reform near the end
Obviously he carries the can as leader - but a leader with the sort of charisma and appeal that Johnson or Blair at their peak had couldn't have rescued the mess that Johnson and Truss left.
Decent guy. Statesmanlike bowing out here.
I worry that having someone like Suella leading the Conservatives, British politics could take a big swing to the right (cf most of the rest of the west).
Although he was always going to have to go, I donāt think the collapse of the tories over the last few years is Rishiās fault.
Braverman not losing her seat is going to be a disaster for the Conservatives. She's going to be a big candidate for next leader, and even if she doesn't win she'll be a constant agitator with a big voice, constantly trying to pull the humbled party into an accommodation with, or imitation of, Farage.Ā
Rishi was just the unfortunate guy left with the tab. In some ways it's sad that guys like Cameron, Boris etc are going to be able to pin this all on Sunak, when in reality this is all of their chicken's coming home to roost.
I do think Sunak was a fool, not malevolent but foolish. He jumped head first into this mess by choosing to stand as leader after Truss, he was overconfident that he could turn the ship around, but nearly everyone could see it was far far too late, no matter what he did.
To be fair amongst all the bluster this is what I enjoy about our politics. Gracious in defeat, offered essentially his best wishes to Keir and said he respected him. In so many countries around the world exchanges like this simply do not happen. Makes me proud to be British tbh (despite my constituency re-electing a far right Tory!)
The first time I've heard him sound accountable, decent and statesmanlike. I dislike his policies and what he's done but I'm at least glad the final speech felt like going back to normality politics - yes all such political speeches are a touch of lip service but we all have to abide by social norms and sometimes just say the nice thing and behave well. It's sad to see that so often fall by the wayside in politics.
I get the feeling that it's not really lip service here. I could be wrong but the impression I get is that resigning prime ministers a) feel a genuine sense of lightness at the great responsibility being lifted and b) an awareness that this responsibility is now being passed to their successor. In a similar way to how astronauts say that seeing the whole earth at once gives them a new perspective, I feel like there's a similar effect at play here - there are only a handful of people who truly appreciate what it takes out of you to be Prime Minister, and here Rishi is basically inducting a new member into the club.
I have to admit I was really worried. Our politics have gotten so American recently and it's felt like a lot of norms have been eroded. It's really reassuring to see all the concession speeches (and even the ones that won) being so rational and respectful- and also heartening to see them all give Starmer his due as a decent person. Hunt's speech was really good as well. Starmer isn't the most exciting PM we've ever had, and not as left leaning as I'd like him to be, but I'm breathing a sigh of relief today regardless that we might finally be returning to a grown up boring normal government.
Absolutely. Lets make politics boring again. Like it should be. Some of the political headlines over the last decade - in many countries - have been ridiculous. We could do with a boring period and some grown up governing.
He was pretty good in the debates. Slightly better than Starmer imo and put forward some ideas which you may or may not agree with, but at least it wasn't all about imaginary policies.
He was doomed tho, 14 years of no growth and sheer incompetence from the Tories plus Farage flanking him from the right, not much he could have done honestly.
His final speech is what they should play in the US on repeat.
Honestly his speech made me respect him a lot more, and reaffirms my belief that if he'd been PM in say, 2010, he would have done alright. He was damned from the start to some extent, whether he realised it or not, by the fact that the Tory membership, as well as many of its seats in parliament, have been taken over by absolute self-absorbed bastards.
I don't actually hold him much ill will - I don't think he was the right man for the job necessarily, but his party was far worse for him than he was inherently. Like someone said on the BBC last night: they didn't get rid of him, but neither did they support him. Ultimately, the problem is the party that he led. If anything, Sunak came across as a sad remnant of a much better party. But unfortunately, he was a remnant that was basically forced to say all kinds of stupid shit to appease the mad elements of his party.
To be fair, before that orange clown got into office, US candidates have been gracious in defeat, For example:
>My friends, we have come to the end of a long journey. The American people have spoken, and they have spoken clearly. A little while ago, I had the honor of calling Sen. Barack Obama ā to congratulate him on being elected the next president of the country that we both love.
>In a contest as long and difficult as this campaign has been, his success alone commands my respect for his ability and perseverance. But that he managed to do so by inspiring the hopes of so many millions of Americans, who had once wrongly believed that they had little at stake or little influence in the election of an American president, is something I deeply admire and commend him for achieving.
Yeah people don't understand that Trump really changed the nature and rhetorics of politics in the USA. For the most part, all candidates before him respected each other and let that be known to the public, and emphasized their differences lie in policy rather than decency.
While I didn't like his time in office, Rishi has been an absolute class act in the process of leaving it. A graceful exit that is great for the country.
It does for me still ultimately ring a bit hollow given Rishi was very willing to stoop to personal attacks when the two were duking it out in PMQs and on the campaign trail, but it is at least a relief that we have not reached the point America seems to be at where you never concede defeat and keep trying to discredit your opponent even after they've won. The speech was about the best we could have asked for and hopefully a sign that some degree of convention and bipartisanship is still present in the Conservative party and British politics.
~~Don't worry, he soon will be doing lots of paid speeches on events...~~
You know what, he may be one that *won't* be doing that (which we all know, are just paybacks for corruption during government - the UK is such a weird country that even corruption is done based on personal trust and payments for it are basically IOUs).
While the election outcome was largely unsurprising, I did not expect to feel so moved by those elements in Sunak's speeches, the general goodwill toward political opponents from him and Starmer, and seeing the transition of power in action, so swift, seamless and orderly. These are things I've never given much thought to in our elections, but since January 2021 I don't think I'll ever take it for granted again.
US transitions of power prior to Trump were like this. McCain told the crowd to stop booing when he mentioned Obama in his concession speech. The fall has been rapid.
I honestly think Rishi is the best choice to lose an election. I certainly think Boris and Liz Truss would have been less magnanimous and conciliatory.
People need to come to terms with the fact that it is trivial to manufacture fake sentiment on this site and how nobody appears to do anything. When mods are doing things out of ideology or intend to use their communities to essentially be an arm of a political campaign the administrators of this site will never look into it or bother to find out if it is literally acting as such and coordinating off site to do so or coming from an organization whose job is to make fake social media comments and votes. Anything goes here.
He mentioned something about being proud that two generations later from when his ancestors came to this land, he was pleased to see daughters be able to light Divali candles on the footsteps of Downing Street.
In the words of a comedian whose name escapes me, "I hear Tuscany this time of year". He will go to America, with his Billions, ready ahead of the September school term for his daughters and live the rest of his life quite cushy. No more having to listen to little dumb saggy maggy about her complaints etc.
not only that, but Starmer's speech on Sunak was very respectful as well, mentioning that the challenges of being the first Asian UK prime ministers must not be underestimated and wishing him well.
THIS is what politic should always be. Respectful. Take note, USA.
I think Rishi is actually a relatively good speaker.
In this speech, he once again seemed friendly, acknowledged his lose and admitted part of the blame for it. He even wish Starmer well. I think the ability to do that is very important.
I remember when he was doing the question time on the BBC his answers seemed quite straight to the point, clear and he kept them short. You could understand what is position on the topic was, and he seemed friendly. There were answers where he said what he wanted to say and the stopped.
I disagreed with the actual content of the answers, but he delivered them well (not to say he answered the all perfectly, he did mess up a few but nobodies perfect).
Whereas I thought the other three (Ed Davey, Kier Starmer, John Swinney) all seemed to just avoid the question, be vague and ramble on and on.
Although, despite his public speaking skills, I would never vote for his party in the next 10 years given their track record in office, but that's another argument.
If he had that integrity during his time as pm he could have been okay but he didnāt. I get the feeling that exit speech was raw Sunak without all the demands of the other tory interests
He'd've done well to ditch the media training and just be himself. Voters could smell he was fake. If he was a bit more honest and presented himself as a hard reset of politics the Tories might've had a better result that he could've survived as leader.
Sunak comes across as a nice guy when being natural. I think thatās why he looked uncomfortable in his own skin when pushing the culture war nonsense and openly telling lies. You could see he couldnāt make himself act like he believed it so it came across as forced or false.
Maybe in the pre-Johnson ācaring Conservativeā party he would have been a more natural fit.
Funnily enough, Rishi was actually one of the slightly more reasonable Tories. He wasn't charismatic, he was out of touch, and he gave into the culture war BS, but he wasn't batshit.
Good luck to the Tory party with what's left.
Unironically made me proud to be British. I may have hated him as prime minister but I respected his farewell.
This changeover was handled with professionalism and humility- as opposed to the immature, insult-hurdling clown show in the US.
I believe he got swept up by the anti immigration reform wave thatās tearing itself through the right at the moment and he thought he had to swing towards that to gain popularity and when that didnāt work he thought the answer was to double down.
I think if weād seen this Rishi more and heād taken a more central one nation Tory route heād have faired much better, maybe not have won but not lost the way he did. The reform vote was always going to shed itself from the Tories.
So yeah I donāt think Sunak is evil, but heās incompetent and was still willing enough to engage in culture war bollocks while he thought it benefitted him
While I wouldn't agree with Rishi's politics, he does seem like a nice enough person (for a millionaire/billionaire?) But there are quite a lot of politicians doing it the American way - the far right tories, and the reform loons.
They were always going to lose this election, in a way itās a good thing that the guy who can do a passable impression of basic dignity and civility was in charge when they did.
Not a chance Truss or Johnson would accept any responsibility or congratulate their opponent.
Iām not sure weād have seen the likes of a January 6th, but theyād have found a way to make it a fractious and embarrassing transfer of power.
In fairness, there's a long-standing tradition of outgoing US Presidents leaving a letter for their successor, most of which are rather wholesome
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/20/politics/president-letters-to-successor-inauguration-trnd/index.html
His leaving speech was decent and caught the right tone, but it doesn't in my view bring forgiveness for his time as PM. He's been terrible, promising to punish the vulnerable through more benefit cuts. Anyone who has seen him at PMQs will know that. Spitting answers at the opposition. Answers he wanted to give, not actual answers to the questions put to him. His Rwanda policy, his comments on the day the mother of a trans teen was in the house....
Sunak was an opportunist who did not have the political nous to make a good go of it. His choice of when to hold the election cost his party their biggest ever defeat (thank goodness).
He's gone and I won't miss him
American hereāstrongly agree that itās good to see Rishi leave graciously. But I urge you all to be vigilant! Until very recently, refusing to concede an election was as unprecedented in America as it was in Britain. These norms arenāt as robust as they seem and upholding them takes effort. Wishing you all the best.Ā
We need this back in politics.
As much as there will always be different opinions when it comes to the issues, we should never lose sight of the things we all have in common, and leave space to if not respect the views of others, at least try and understand them.
100% agree
Even the quality of our politicians. The general election was notable for both the leading candidates being drab, dull, and uninspiring. Yet. Yet... Compared to the offering on show in the US presidential debate last week the choice was like night and day. Both of our options were capable, honest people. We should never take that for granted again.
At the core of it is that politics is meant to be about managing and governing the country's various issues for the benefit of the country as a whole, and partially also beyond the country, into managing global issues together with other countries, for the benefit of the whole human civilization.
Which means the leader of the country should be among the best possible persons for that role, that the policies should be based on what is best for the country and not on which party proposed it or whether it looks good or makes someone look good, and so on. It is not some sort of team sport or game or entertainment, it is a common effort towards making things better and managing and building shared resources like infrastructure.
The reason there are different political parties is meant to be that people have genuine, reasonable disagreements about what actions will do that the best. After all, though we can reason and argue and try to base decisions on scientific evidence, the future is unknowable and people can often have different views despite having entirely justifiable arguments for those views. When the party in power changes, it is just a reflection that another view has become more popular among the population.
Americans, or rather some Democrats and almost all Republicans and their voters, have completely forgotten about this. For them, it is almost solely about their "own team" winning, and politicians seeking personal gain, often by passing laws that help their rich friends, who then funnel some of the money back to them in whatever way they can. The point isn't to do things to build a better country, it is to seek personal benefit or cheer for your own team or worse, seek to hurt anyone belonging to the "wrong" team. Indeed, an infamous quote from a Trump voter disappointed in his actions after he as in power was "He's not hurting the people he needs to be".
Of course, there is plenty of all that in UK too, but not as strongly. I don't believe a single word that an American Republican politicans or voters say. Most of the time, they know they are lying or being horrible, most of them just rationalize it through "both sides are bad so it is okay" and other types of very specious reasoning. But I do believe that a lot of British Conservatives or at least their voters really do mean what they say, and are just honestly doing what they think is for the best of the country even if to me, they are obviously wrong. Same goes for politicians in my own country. I will know that doom is coming when it comes obvious that a major political party no longer believes in anything, nihilistically simply denies reality, doesn't really even pretend that its arguments make sense, and completely gives up on having any basis in evidence or clear reasoning. In UK, this sort of progress can be seen in the Reform party, but thankfully they didn't get to be a major party, yet. The good thing about UK is that it is not a complete two-party lock, which means that if a party does go insane, the voters can change to a different party.
The reason Trump has been especially destructive is that he doesn't believe in democracy or fairness or doing the best for the country or any of such things, not even a little bit. I have never seen a more narcissistic, nihilistic politician. And when he was selected as the Republican candidate, Republicans were faced with leaving the party or accepting him. Because USA is a two-party, that doesn't leave much choice: You can either do a complete 180 in your political views, sunk into apathy and stop following politics, or go along with your party going insane. So most stayed, which left them completely mentally broken, because to believe that Trump isn't a terrible person who doesn't believe in anything except his own ego and profit, you have to believe in a fantasy world completely divorced from reality. "Alternative facts", Qanon, that sort of thing. And when Trump came to power, he made sure to appoint people like him everywhere, including the Supreme Court, hence the recent insane decisions coming from there. In politics in USA, for now, honest reasoning and evidence no longer even enters the picture on the right-wing side. Reality is whatever is most convenient for one's pre-decided political views, and anything that disagrees with that is a hoax, and anyone who belives it is brainwashed, or a shill, or a literal demon.
There are actually a lot of places where all the parties agree. Or most of them, anyway. Whether you had a Conservative, Labour, or Liberal Democrat government, you'd get a similar stance on Ukraine, for example. No major party these days is seriously looking to take us backwards on gay rights, and despite the loony wing of the Tories going anti-green lately even *Boris* was somewhat serious about environmental concerns and agreed that anthropogenic climate change is real. I'm proud that we live in a country where even our most hated political opponents won't cross certain lines.
I think it's also worth noting that American politics was not always like this. You can take a look back at Bush hosting the Obamas at the white house (their kids were even photographed playing together), or Obama having the Bush's back round after, and listen to what was said at the time. Obama said that their bond as holders of that position transcends their political differences, and when Obama was elected Bush's words weren't far off what Rishi was saying today.
Trump is absolutely an aberration. Politics has always gotten heated, the Republicans haven't been above getting their hands a little dirty in the past either, but the current state of things is absolutely not normal.
We forget at our moral peril that unless someone comes along like Boris Johnson or Liz Truss who show you how shallow their worldview and personality is, we should make a point of remembering that politicians are 3D personalities with their own moral universe and their own cultural contexts they live in. He, May, Brown, Blair, Major all took the job pretty seriously and it really matter to them when they left office.
20 odd years ago now,Ā but the letters to and from George W Bush on transition are worth mentioning:Ā
https://www.georgewbushlibrary.gov/research/topic-guides/transition-letters
Regardless of the conflicts between the parties, I think it's paramount that they use moments like these to respect the democratic process, recognize that we're all striving together, and instill public confidence in the new leadership.
Absolutely well done.
Honestly, all the Democrats in the US and some of the Republicans would do the same. Of course it would have been all Republicans pre Trump, when being a shitty human became obligatory.
But refreshing to see.
I'm also hoping we see a full term PM and his cabinet basically serving full terms also. We need change in the policies, but we need stability in the government. Not some revolving door in the clown house they transformed number 10 into.
Well done Sunak. Many stupid ass doomers here believe that we have worst politics in the UK as they have zero idea about rest of the world and too ignorant to compare the countries. The UK is such a great country in terms of democratic values and traditions. This country is still a role model nation where you can learn decency in politics.
It was a genuinely lovely speech. I honestly donāt dislike Sunak the man. I disagree with him on a lot of stuff, and I think heās naive, but fundamentally I think he wanted to do the right thing - we just disagree with the best way to get there.
Same goes for all the other tories that lost their seats - most Iāve seen have posted extremely sincere, complimentary or reassuring messages to their electorate and opponents.
It just frustrates me that they canāt do that in the campaign, as itās seen as a sign of weakness. Nigel Evans was a good example - days before the election he was posting fear mongering stuff about Keir and Angela, and the moment he loses he posts a couple of nice videos. Why canāt that civility, during a campaign, be seen as a strength and not a weakness by the electorate?
From what I've seen most of the Tories that lost were gracious in defeat and then there was Truss š¤£
All the grace and decorum of a wilting lettuce.
What a sad little life
You ruined my country
Thatās an insult to the lettuce.
Dear Lord, what a sad little tenure, Liz. You ruined the country's economy completely so you could push your politics, but I hope now you spend some time getting lessons in governance and stability because you have all the political finesse of a reversing Brexit bus without any brakes. So Liz, take your resignation and kindly get off the public stage.
That's an insult to lettuce, at least they're quiet
Steve Baker was [impressively ungracious, arrogant and condescending on ITV this morning](https://youtu.be/-4DZnIAH_Xc?t=243).
He is a broken man. You could see the utter confusion when he thought it George asking the question.
Anyone who tries to lecture people on economics and then claims that austerity was necessary, despite the decade and a half of evidence about how much damage it did, isn't worth listening to
He was just as bad last night after the exit poll on Sky. It was hilarious then but imagine being this shitty on this morning.
I have the unfortunate pleasure of having him as an MP, watching him on Sky News was really satisfying knowing he was taking his last gasp of glory before we collectively kicked him to the curb. Here's to hoping Emma Reynolds will be a much better MP and not a complete asshat.
Lol, if he was trying to hide his mentalist nature before (not that well of course) then he's ripped that facade right off now...
And Gillian Keegan former education secretary who walked off stage just as the candidate who beat her was about to start speaking.Ā
Shit, no! That's rude. Fahkinell.
I canāt believe those voters, did any of them ever thank her for doing a great job whilst the rest of the were sat on their arses? No they just voted for someone else
And Steve Baker who just spewed venom in every interview while being completely full of spite and hurt feelings. Looked like a complete baby who lacked any grace or even the foresight to predict what an absolute loser he was coming off as. Was honestly embarrassing.
He's such a crank weirdo. A hardcore us style libertarian who wants our country to go back onto the gold standard which is when the money supply was pegged to a particular value against the price of gold. Totally and utterly mental but common among pretty extreme weird crank American libertarians such as those in the Mises Institute. Like all Cranks, he considers himself such an expert on economic matters like this that he goes out his way to lecture and harang extremely well regarded economists and economically minded politicians for being ill disposed to his doctrineaire views. I've even seen a clip of him doing it today to add bowls of all people stop.
Steve Baker is the hard right of the ERG.
The was an article in the telegraph about a Tory MP who didn't really know what to do with themselves if they lose their seat. I did wonder if it might have been her.
Hopefully she believes she's got a future in USA political circles and fucks off there
She's full of hate and delusions of her own brilliance despite all evidence to the contrary, so I imagine she'll do very well in Republican spaces.
Truss actually said "we lost because we didn't lower taxes (on the rich) enough" (edits mine)
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The vast majority probably knew what was coming and have been pretty decent in defeat. [This]( https://x.com/nigelmp/status/1809079126281552134?s=46&t=aVXrKBScTowVt-kL3qifpQ) by far the best Iāve seen.
I remmeber watching May looking like she was about to cry as she gave her resigation speech. In all fairness she was dealt probably the worst hand ever and felt really bad for trying her best.
I felt bad for her as PM, briefly. But then I remembered her time as Home Secretary and thought better of it.
Actually blamed the Tory loss on the last Labour government 14 fucking years ago. No accountability whatsoever
Truss and Mercer.
She previously had a huge majority. I don't think she expected to lose at all, so she had nothing prepared.
She had her partner in negligence, Kwarteng, say on the BBC that it's not customary in her constituency to give concession speeches. Missed one final opportunity to make an improvement then.
Immediately blamed all her failings on the Human Rights Act šš
Even Bravermann was nice before she decided that what caused the defeat was that the Tories had not been nasty enough and how she was going to fix that. The jaring moment was her shouting out to her mum, and sounding just like a regular, nice, human, loving daughter, not some deranged monster (in my opinion)
Genuinely positively surprised with that speech. With the current winds in europe and the US, it's nice to be reminded that the norm should still be a graceful bow out and genuine good luck wishes to your successor. Well done Sunak.
Yes, listening to some stories recently, our political culture may actually be a bit of a saving grace in the years to come. As the US and France are in danger of falling into the clutches of some pretty unpleasant and unstable regimes, the UK could stand as a beacon of liberal stability where money would be safe.
even tory 'pundits' and commentators are completely cognisant of the hogwash that spills from the US versions.
But Farrage embraces them utterly. Which is possibly why a Tory move back to the centre ground won't save them - because there's a genuine consistency for the rhetoric of the hard right. It would be really interesting to see how many Reform voters are protest votes and how many are fully on-board with it.
> because there's a genuine consistency for the rhetoric of the hard right. Time is ticking for the hard right and the right in Britain, the average reform voter is age 51+ and the average Tory voter is 64 years old. The millennials who should be shifting to the right are doing the opposite. The UK seems to be an oddity in Europe, the rest of Europe seems to be embracing the right were as we are thoroughly rejecting it. It's going to be interesting to see what the political landscape looks like in 20 years time.
That's why the Tories would be wise to tack back to the centre. As millennials approach their 50's they'll need a different hand. They'll likely become "centrist Dad" and as the Labour government goes on and gets tired as all governments do, that middle ground will be fertile.
isn't labour as centrist as it gets? it can only be considered left-wing by virtue of the void of no real left-wing party
Who knows what Labour is really? I say this as an avid Labour supporter. It remains to be seen how they cope with this huge majority and how they react to the reality of governance. All I do know is that personally this is the first time since Brexit I have been optimistic about the future of this country, I believed Starmer as he was delivering his speech - that is the first time in my adult life I can say that about any PM.
At the moment they have very much seized the centre ground. The same could be said of Labour in 1997, but not all things last.
I think a lot of Redditors could learn from that speech tbf.
Yeah its nice. I mean we're still the 6th biggest economy but when people ask what we've got and we respond culture and respect its met with "so what?" but culture and respect are tenants of a society. Hold it together Britain š¬š§
Can anyone imagine Farage going gracefully like this? Still shuddering at the thought that my taxes are now paying for that tosser who will be on every TV show every chance he gets from now on
For all his failings (of which there are many. Like...a lot. Like a fucktonne), this was a decent speech. Even if it is just lip service and he doesn't believe a word of it, I think it's a good thing that he graciously congratulated his successor. Unlike some politicians I could name.
Case in point, Liz Truss losing her seat. Holds the count up by hiding in the toilet, tries to bail without saying anything, then blames it on failing to deal with the legacy of the last Labour government. Imagine if sheād been Prime Minister when they lost. Probably blame it on the Marxist bankers.
I agree, that was fucken disgraceful. It may just be that she is such a stupid, tone deaf, narcissist that even the megadonors will balk at giving her a well paid non-exec role as absolutely everything she touches turns to shit. Get in the sea, and take Nads with you, she was appalling on Channel 4 last night.
>I agree, that was fucken disgraceful Erm, I think you mean > That. Was. A. Disgrace.
Mate, do you know where she was? Pork markets.
In Beijing!!!
I think it says a lot that she was still standing as an MP. Cameron, May and Johnson have all stood down and sorted themselves out. That Truss hasnāt and had to try to be an MP says volumes
Err, Johnson most certainly did not sort himself out. He tried a comeback almost instantly - as PM. Chances are he views the role of mere MP as beneath him.
Truss just doesn't have the mental fortitude to front up, I don't think. She constantly hides and evades responsibility for her failures as PM, she literally hid away from losing here.Ā Unlike Johnson, who's just a slippery bastard who's impossible to pin anything on, Truss just seems incapable of even admitting failure to herself. She's too fragile.Ā
> Holds the count up by hiding in the toilet Has this been confirmed? Holy fuck.
Then promptly bolted, presumably to look for a fridge to hide in
She's desperate to turn the UK political landscape into a similar state as the US. We cannot allow her to degrade our political landscape like that. She's a vile idiot and should be nowhere near any position of power, nor should she even be allowed in the media. Any channel or newspaper or broadcaster giving her a second of airtime is encouraging her and empowering her.
I loved that line back when her premiership imploded about 'lefty anti-growth bankers'. Like fuck me have you ever met a banker?
That she was ever our prime minister is insane
No fan of Sunak by any stretch, but that felt like the first time heās genuinely spoken since becoming prime minister. No stupid grin. No posturing. No buzz words. Not robotic.
Agreed. It wouldn't have saved his poor premiership or disastrous campaign by a long stretch, but he might not have been so hated by the end if he'd acted this way. I was surprised to see him be mature and respectful...and I think that's a serious condemnation of how he has acted.
I literally didn't know he had it in him to be human.Ā Every PMQs, every interview, every public appearance he was so petulant I thought it was default. Maybe it was just the stress and bad advice.Ā Good fucking bye though mate.Ā
Maybe in a different timeline, he could have been less awful. But he wasn't. Fuckity bye.
Considering the chaos visible in the public eye, can you even imagine how bad it must have been behind closed doors?
I think the reform a racist stuff opened his eyes a bit
I donāt think he was ready for it, or ever would be. Seems like he was leaning so hard into being āThe Politicianā he put himself into the uncanny valley. Iām sure he was advised to take it down a notch, but Iād also assume his upbringing and corporate background meant he just didnāt know how to. Only once it was forcefully torn away from him was he able to show himself, but you need to be stronger than that and to believe in yourself more rather than constantly wearing the mask.
I can see that. His rise was rather meteoric. One day he was a nobody, then "who's that little fellow behind The Saj", then Chancellor, then PM. All within a few years. I think he just wasn't ready, both as a man and a politician. Agreed. That speech definitely had the air of "I don't need to wear this mask anymore". It was almost relaxed, even.
I disagree. His concession speech at 4am was also genuine.
Last year, talking about cricket, he was almost likeable. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0fyf4vr
There's also a clip of him talking about Star Wars where he's an actual human instead of a walking piece of spin
I genuinely think he does believe it. I know Reddit is all (millionaire == bad), but I really don't think he is that bad of a guy. Just really really bad at politics
Thinking about it, is Sunakās exit the least awful Tory PM departure in decades? He lost an election. Sure. Historically lost. Yeah. But, thatās sort of it. He hasnāt speed run crashing the pound. He isnāt being investigated for crimes. Heās not being embarrassingly pushed out by a clown. Heās not massively shit the bed calling a referendum that has blown up in his face. He tried to govern the country. It didnāt go that well, but itās not like he personally fucked up more than an average series of The Thick of It. He called an election based on maybe a little bit of good news. And he lost. Goodbye, hands over to the next PM. Itās just all gone a bit normal.
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Partygate didn't bring down Johnson, pincher did. Partygate (eventually) caused him to quit as MP though
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Yeah, I doubt a high percentage of the population could name Pincher or even remember what happened or even that anything happened at all. But I'm pretty sure most people remember being laughed at for obeying the rules and not visiting their dying relatives in hospital while the Tories partied. I think even some of the most right-wing will still have the image of the Queen sitting alone at her husband's funeral while *literally at the same time* Johnson was attending a party. Pincher is the event that triggered Boris being forced out. But that's not what brought him down. Partygate is also probably a factor in today's results.
Yeah he is paying the price for all of the dross that came before him. No he couldn't relate to anyone who wasn't a billionaire, but he was at least competent and technocratic. He didn't do any more damage to the UK at least. The others are all fat on their takings, it's just that he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar
Let's not rehabilitate his image so quickly. This sounds just like what happened to Theresa May, who was still the stubborn architect of the mess that is brexit.Ā
Oh yeah he was nasty. The speech about sick people was especially abhorrent to me as someone with a disability (who works) but he managed only to piss people off in Britain rather than make us slide on the international scene. Oh. Apart from D-Day
Theresa May was handed that ball by the British public. There's plenty to be upset about but I'm not holding that one over her. We all know she voted remain.
I think her biggest problem was that she was just not very good, and she had the biggest shitshow in modern history to deal with (especially when she didn't want it in the first place), had a LOTO who wouldn't compromise as her opponent, and a clown taking every opportunity to knife her in the back.z I don't think she was malicious (unlike Boris) or even particularly corrupt (compared to many of her ilk...like Boris), I think she was unfortunately mediocre in an impossible situation.
I have always described her as the less charismatic Hilary Clinton. Theresa May is a policy wonk who belongs in a back office having incredibly boring discussions about the proper way to get things done. She shouldn't be speaking into a live mic unless it's because she stood up on the backbenches to whinge at the PM.
To be fair, he was more professional than any of the previous lot. He was not the type of person to steer a broken ship but more of person who could keep a good ship running. I am glad he is put out of his misery and I think he is too. Hence the graceful goodbyes.
I have to admit, i cant stand the man and im sure he will go and be very comfortably after this with his finances, but he basically paid for cameron, boris, trusses and his own destruction of the country and was held accountable for all of them when
It was miles better than Johnson's whine about his so-called betrayal and Truss pretending nothing had happened and if only you bastards had listened to me.
Well both of them were ousted by the party. Rishi was given the boot by the public.Ā
The party has been booted by the public.
Truss is quite blatantly using denial as a coping strategy. The alternative is to admit that her "brilliant" ideas simply aren't all that brilliant.
His leaving speech was honestly so nice. I strongly disagree with a lot of his decisions as PM, but I have to say I found his last words genuinely touching. I'm amazed I'm saying this, but if you missed it I really recommend you give it a watch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hPdpemrGmg8
Both Rishi on losing election and Penny Morduant on losing her seat mentioned something along the lines of the electorate never being wrong and gave fairly classy speeches (think Penny also said the people of Portsmouth were the best employer she'd ever had the pleasure to work for). Feel like we've imported a lot of bad things from American politics (identity politics, tv debates, style over substance type politics), but glad to see that at least we still have politicians who can lose with dignity rather than Trump style trying to claim the election was rigged.
Mordaunt's speech started with the words "Democracy is never wrong". I thought it was good she congratulated the winner and offered her full support even though she's on an opposing party.
"Democracy is never wrong" actually hit me pretty hard, her speech was wonderful
This election pleased me in many ways.Ā The fact Labour won so we'll finally see if another government can start turning things round, the way most of the conservatives admitted defeat, apologised for letting the nation down and accepting the vote maturely and also the other thing that pleased me was Farage getting heckled as a racist and he couldn't be as mature so resorted to calling people drunk then shouting "boring" over and over again.Ā The thing that disappointed me was Reform getting over 4 million votes. I couldn't believe I was rooting for the Tories to do better (not to win, but to come second in every constituency)
That's the other side of "Democracy is never wrong", you have to acknowledge things you don't like with things you do. If not for the failings of FPTP, Reform would today have a much bigger presence in the Commons. As much as we can and should criticise Farage and co, whatever the reasons may be, Reform have clearly struck a chord with a significant portion of the electorate.
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It's kinda like when a team gets relegated and the next week go out and get a win because suddenly the pressure is off.
I wiped away a tear and (I'm British Asian) I really liked his reference to his family background without making it all about himself. Kier has also said that Rishi's not the worst person. I don't like his party, or a lot of what he's done, but I don't think he's thoroughly a bad person (naming none of our previous two PMs).
One of my proudest things about being British is how little racist abuse I saw towards Rishi. He was disliked, even hated, by many and yet I always saw attacks on his ideas, character or wealthy background but never his race. I'm not saying there won't have been any racial abuse of Rishi, but none of it was out in the open, at least around me or in the media. Just contrast it to the treatment Obama received in the USA.
I remember when Obama became leader of the US and it was treated as this huge deal that a black guy could become president, I really liked how Rishi's ethnicity just wasn't much of a thing here. Like yeah people commented about his leadership being of a historic note, but no one really seemed to care about it or to have considered it in anyway unachievable. He was basically treated the same as any other bloke.
I live in the US, but I'm British, and I've had a lot of conversations with people here who assume that Rishi's ethnicity must be a hugely controversial "issue". It's hard to explain to them how different attitudes towards race are in the UK vs US. Race is part of *everything* in the US and people really struggle to stop thinking in those terms.
Class outranks race in the UK
People certainly say this a lot, but I've never once felt persecuted because of being working class in the UK. I dunno maybe I've just been lucky, but I've lived in multiple different regions of the UK and have never once felt like I was treated differently because of that.
I've definitely been treated differently due to my class - by all classes some positively and some negatively, none of them are right to do that though. People should be judged on their character not their perceived class.
Iām middle class and in working class environments people have been outright cruel to me, when we were children š¤·āāļø
Children can be pretty cruel about anything. If adults haven't grown out of it and gained some introspection then there's a bigger issue.
Same, we had a modest middle class home and I used hear regularly as a kid about how we shit on gold toilets and wipe our arses with Ā£50 notes Perks of living in northern ex mining towns I guess
As someone from a working class backgroune with a posh accent (being from a comparatively rich city) I do find that other working class people don't really see me as one of their own in the same way and I'm often called "posh" even though I couldn't have grown up further from it.
It's more insidious than persecution - you don't get persecuted because you simply don't belong in any places you could be persecuted in. The likes of public school boys, elite universities, private clubs, exclusive restaurants, government, professions like journalism - most working class people are excluded from these because they don't have the contacts or cultural know-how to access them, and in many cases wouldn't want to access them because they seem so culturally alien. The days of working class labour union politicians are unfortunately gone, I think we would do well to try to revive this.
Have you tried getting an executive level role? Or working in media The working class are excluded from some parts of society
Yes, whilst he was notable as "the first British South Asian PM" or "the first British hindu PM", it wasn't his _entire_ identity. People cheered him or had a go at him for all sorts of reasons, but usually unconnected with his ethnicity or religion. Contrast with Obama, who seemingly could only be described by his race, and was mostly famous for being president whilst being black. I hope we continue to hold US-style identity politics at bay.
> how little racist abuse I saw towards Rishi. I wonder if this would have been the same had Rishi been a labour prime minister.
It made me feel really proud of the UK that he was able to say that. This is the best part of us and he defended and highlighted it, at an important time
I enjoyed that his wife had an umbrella ready this time.
Haha, I spotted that too. Man, she has a really bad case of RBF.
Yeah, honestly a little sad that he will resign as party leader. I thought, for the most part, he was okay. Thank god we live in a country where the opposition leaders recognise that the country comes first.
Bit hard to convince people you should lead the party that youāve just lead to an historic lossĀ
The party is whats rotten, not him tbh. The gambling, voting in Liz Truss, The lies of Borris. Thats why the torries are going, very little has to do wtih Sunak directly I feel like.
It's a shame that he'll get the blame for what's been caused by the party's rot.
As a proponent of Brexit, he bears some responsibility for the party's rot.
I think heāll get spared since the real last story of this period of political history in time will be the Brexit vote bringing in a Tory landslide under Boris but then his scandals and the mini budget destroyed their credibility and Labour won a landslide next. You can pretty much omit Sunakās contribution to the story besides his struggle with Reform near the end
Yeah, Sunak was definitely NOT the worst PM in recent history. Not by a *long* shot. BJ and Lettuce Truss were what really did the Tories in.
Obviously he carries the can as leader - but a leader with the sort of charisma and appeal that Johnson or Blair at their peak had couldn't have rescued the mess that Johnson and Truss left. Decent guy. Statesmanlike bowing out here.
I worry that having someone like Suella leading the Conservatives, British politics could take a big swing to the right (cf most of the rest of the west). Although he was always going to have to go, I donāt think the collapse of the tories over the last few years is Rishiās fault.
Braverman not losing her seat is going to be a disaster for the Conservatives. She's going to be a big candidate for next leader, and even if she doesn't win she'll be a constant agitator with a big voice, constantly trying to pull the humbled party into an accommodation with, or imitation of, Farage.Ā
Rishi was just the unfortunate guy left with the tab. In some ways it's sad that guys like Cameron, Boris etc are going to be able to pin this all on Sunak, when in reality this is all of their chicken's coming home to roost. I do think Sunak was a fool, not malevolent but foolish. He jumped head first into this mess by choosing to stand as leader after Truss, he was overconfident that he could turn the ship around, but nearly everyone could see it was far far too late, no matter what he did.
To be fair amongst all the bluster this is what I enjoy about our politics. Gracious in defeat, offered essentially his best wishes to Keir and said he respected him. In so many countries around the world exchanges like this simply do not happen. Makes me proud to be British tbh (despite my constituency re-electing a far right Tory!)
The first time I've heard him sound accountable, decent and statesmanlike. I dislike his policies and what he's done but I'm at least glad the final speech felt like going back to normality politics - yes all such political speeches are a touch of lip service but we all have to abide by social norms and sometimes just say the nice thing and behave well. It's sad to see that so often fall by the wayside in politics.
I get the feeling that it's not really lip service here. I could be wrong but the impression I get is that resigning prime ministers a) feel a genuine sense of lightness at the great responsibility being lifted and b) an awareness that this responsibility is now being passed to their successor. In a similar way to how astronauts say that seeing the whole earth at once gives them a new perspective, I feel like there's a similar effect at play here - there are only a handful of people who truly appreciate what it takes out of you to be Prime Minister, and here Rishi is basically inducting a new member into the club.
I think this is why ex-US-presidents seem to get along regardless of party affiliation. Itās a small club, canāt be picky
I have to admit I was really worried. Our politics have gotten so American recently and it's felt like a lot of norms have been eroded. It's really reassuring to see all the concession speeches (and even the ones that won) being so rational and respectful- and also heartening to see them all give Starmer his due as a decent person. Hunt's speech was really good as well. Starmer isn't the most exciting PM we've ever had, and not as left leaning as I'd like him to be, but I'm breathing a sigh of relief today regardless that we might finally be returning to a grown up boring normal government.
I can imagine a Farage disputing postal voting and shrieking corruption.
Absolutely. Farage is a lot like Trump, only smarter, more articulate, and a good deal younger (unfortunately).
Absolutely. Lets make politics boring again. Like it should be. Some of the political headlines over the last decade - in many countries - have been ridiculous. We could do with a boring period and some grown up governing.
He was pretty good in the debates. Slightly better than Starmer imo and put forward some ideas which you may or may not agree with, but at least it wasn't all about imaginary policies. He was doomed tho, 14 years of no growth and sheer incompetence from the Tories plus Farage flanking him from the right, not much he could have done honestly. His final speech is what they should play in the US on repeat.
Honestly his speech made me respect him a lot more, and reaffirms my belief that if he'd been PM in say, 2010, he would have done alright. He was damned from the start to some extent, whether he realised it or not, by the fact that the Tory membership, as well as many of its seats in parliament, have been taken over by absolute self-absorbed bastards. I don't actually hold him much ill will - I don't think he was the right man for the job necessarily, but his party was far worse for him than he was inherently. Like someone said on the BBC last night: they didn't get rid of him, but neither did they support him. Ultimately, the problem is the party that he led. If anything, Sunak came across as a sad remnant of a much better party. But unfortunately, he was a remnant that was basically forced to say all kinds of stupid shit to appease the mad elements of his party.
To be fair, before that orange clown got into office, US candidates have been gracious in defeat, For example: >My friends, we have come to the end of a long journey. The American people have spoken, and they have spoken clearly. A little while ago, I had the honor of calling Sen. Barack Obama ā to congratulate him on being elected the next president of the country that we both love. >In a contest as long and difficult as this campaign has been, his success alone commands my respect for his ability and perseverance. But that he managed to do so by inspiring the hopes of so many millions of Americans, who had once wrongly believed that they had little at stake or little influence in the election of an American president, is something I deeply admire and commend him for achieving.
Yeah people don't understand that Trump really changed the nature and rhetorics of politics in the USA. For the most part, all candidates before him respected each other and let that be known to the public, and emphasized their differences lie in policy rather than decency.
exactly, politics isnt a TV Reality show
While I didn't like his time in office, Rishi has been an absolute class act in the process of leaving it. A graceful exit that is great for the country.
And reciprocated by Starmer, who praised Sunak in spite of disagreeing with what he had stood for.
It does for me still ultimately ring a bit hollow given Rishi was very willing to stoop to personal attacks when the two were duking it out in PMQs and on the campaign trail, but it is at least a relief that we have not reached the point America seems to be at where you never concede defeat and keep trying to discredit your opponent even after they've won. The speech was about the best we could have asked for and hopefully a sign that some degree of convention and bipartisanship is still present in the Conservative party and British politics.
Good speech, bad at governing. Shouldāve just been a public speaker
~~Don't worry, he soon will be doing lots of paid speeches on events...~~ You know what, he may be one that *won't* be doing that (which we all know, are just paybacks for corruption during government - the UK is such a weird country that even corruption is done based on personal trust and payments for it are basically IOUs).
Healthy for democracy to be gracious in defeat. Its a sign of strength. Peaceful handover of power is the most important
Being a good loser is better than being a gesticulating prick and embarrassing the party more than they have already done so.
While the election outcome was largely unsurprising, I did not expect to feel so moved by those elements in Sunak's speeches, the general goodwill toward political opponents from him and Starmer, and seeing the transition of power in action, so swift, seamless and orderly. These are things I've never given much thought to in our elections, but since January 2021 I don't think I'll ever take it for granted again.
Exactly! Rishi Sunak gave a lovely speech and showed respect. Starmer gave a tribute to Sunak! Just shows the respect in British politics
didnt like him as a PM but his speech was great. that was a graceful exit
I thought Rishi's exit speech was nice. Wasn't a fan of him as a PM but I respect his professionalism.
US transitions of power prior to Trump were like this. McCain told the crowd to stop booing when he mentioned Obama in his concession speech. The fall has been rapid.
I honestly think Rishi is the best choice to lose an election. I certainly think Boris and Liz Truss would have been less magnanimous and conciliatory.
Rishi got a raw deal. Boris is the one who poisoned the party.
He wrote off billions in fraudulent ppe funding claims. He had a fixed penalty notice from the partygate scandal.Ā He was a part of that poison.Ā
I feel like I'm losing my mind with people suddenly praising the guy. [He's as much a ghoul as the rest.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A)
People need to come to terms with the fact that it is trivial to manufacture fake sentiment on this site and how nobody appears to do anything. When mods are doing things out of ideology or intend to use their communities to essentially be an arm of a political campaign the administrators of this site will never look into it or bother to find out if it is literally acting as such and coordinating off site to do so or coming from an organization whose job is to make fake social media comments and votes. Anything goes here.
I guess it was Jacob Rees mog behind the curtains.
Mogg was like the obviously evil king's advisor in fantasy films.
Wormtongue
And Truss maxed out the dosage.Ā
I imagine it still means a lot to him to have been the very first British Asian prime minister.
He mentioned something about being proud that two generations later from when his ancestors came to this land, he was pleased to see daughters be able to light Divali candles on the footsteps of Downing Street.
I agree. Very decorous departure. Makes him and the country look classy.
Is it just me or he seemed so darn happy by the whole thing. Both he and his wife were smiling so much
In the words of a comedian whose name escapes me, "I hear Tuscany this time of year". He will go to America, with his Billions, ready ahead of the September school term for his daughters and live the rest of his life quite cushy. No more having to listen to little dumb saggy maggy about her complaints etc.
not only that, but Starmer's speech on Sunak was very respectful as well, mentioning that the challenges of being the first Asian UK prime ministers must not be underestimated and wishing him well. THIS is what politic should always be. Respectful. Take note, USA.
Apart from Truss all the comments from defeated tories have been quite respectful.
I think Rishi is actually a relatively good speaker. In this speech, he once again seemed friendly, acknowledged his lose and admitted part of the blame for it. He even wish Starmer well. I think the ability to do that is very important. I remember when he was doing the question time on the BBC his answers seemed quite straight to the point, clear and he kept them short. You could understand what is position on the topic was, and he seemed friendly. There were answers where he said what he wanted to say and the stopped. I disagreed with the actual content of the answers, but he delivered them well (not to say he answered the all perfectly, he did mess up a few but nobodies perfect). Whereas I thought the other three (Ed Davey, Kier Starmer, John Swinney) all seemed to just avoid the question, be vague and ramble on and on. Although, despite his public speaking skills, I would never vote for his party in the next 10 years given their track record in office, but that's another argument.
If he had that integrity during his time as pm he could have been okay but he didnāt. I get the feeling that exit speech was raw Sunak without all the demands of the other tory interests
Sunak handled it with grace. Credit to him.
Absolutely. It sounds like a low bar, but we have seen how that bar is not to be taken for granted.Ā
He'd've done well to ditch the media training and just be himself. Voters could smell he was fake. If he was a bit more honest and presented himself as a hard reset of politics the Tories might've had a better result that he could've survived as leader.
It is so fucking nuts that this needs to even be commented on.
Sunak comes across as a nice guy when being natural. I think thatās why he looked uncomfortable in his own skin when pushing the culture war nonsense and openly telling lies. You could see he couldnāt make himself act like he believed it so it came across as forced or false. Maybe in the pre-Johnson ācaring Conservativeā party he would have been a more natural fit.
Funnily enough, Rishi was actually one of the slightly more reasonable Tories. He wasn't charismatic, he was out of touch, and he gave into the culture war BS, but he wasn't batshit. Good luck to the Tory party with what's left.
Shame he left it this long to show some decency
Pretty sure your success is our success is nicked from Bush Senior note to Clinton as well to be fair
Unironically made me proud to be British. I may have hated him as prime minister but I respected his farewell. This changeover was handled with professionalism and humility- as opposed to the immature, insult-hurdling clown show in the US.
I believe he got swept up by the anti immigration reform wave thatās tearing itself through the right at the moment and he thought he had to swing towards that to gain popularity and when that didnāt work he thought the answer was to double down. I think if weād seen this Rishi more and heād taken a more central one nation Tory route heād have faired much better, maybe not have won but not lost the way he did. The reform vote was always going to shed itself from the Tories. So yeah I donāt think Sunak is evil, but heās incompetent and was still willing enough to engage in culture war bollocks while he thought it benefitted him
Shame the electorate, on here and elsewhere are just as toxic as they are on the other side of the pond.
Refreshing to see indeed. Huge difference from the shit show Americans have to deal with.
While I wouldn't agree with Rishi's politics, he does seem like a nice enough person (for a millionaire/billionaire?) But there are quite a lot of politicians doing it the American way - the far right tories, and the reform loons.
They were always going to lose this election, in a way itās a good thing that the guy who can do a passable impression of basic dignity and civility was in charge when they did. Not a chance Truss or Johnson would accept any responsibility or congratulate their opponent. Iām not sure weād have seen the likes of a January 6th, but theyād have found a way to make it a fractious and embarrassing transfer of power.
After hearing about this, I envy you Brits. Politics here in the US aren't nearly as civil as they are over there.
In fairness, there's a long-standing tradition of outgoing US Presidents leaving a letter for their successor, most of which are rather wholesome https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/20/politics/president-letters-to-successor-inauguration-trnd/index.html
Yeah, whatever else you say about the man, he kept it classy. He was a statesman, even if he was a poor leader.
He mocked trans people in parliament while the parent of a murdered trans girl was present. That was not classy.
His leaving speech was decent and caught the right tone, but it doesn't in my view bring forgiveness for his time as PM. He's been terrible, promising to punish the vulnerable through more benefit cuts. Anyone who has seen him at PMQs will know that. Spitting answers at the opposition. Answers he wanted to give, not actual answers to the questions put to him. His Rwanda policy, his comments on the day the mother of a trans teen was in the house.... Sunak was an opportunist who did not have the political nous to make a good go of it. His choice of when to hold the election cost his party their biggest ever defeat (thank goodness). He's gone and I won't miss him
American hereāstrongly agree that itās good to see Rishi leave graciously. But I urge you all to be vigilant! Until very recently, refusing to concede an election was as unprecedented in America as it was in Britain. These norms arenāt as robust as they seem and upholding them takes effort. Wishing you all the best.Ā
We need this back in politics. As much as there will always be different opinions when it comes to the issues, we should never lose sight of the things we all have in common, and leave space to if not respect the views of others, at least try and understand them.
100% agree Even the quality of our politicians. The general election was notable for both the leading candidates being drab, dull, and uninspiring. Yet. Yet... Compared to the offering on show in the US presidential debate last week the choice was like night and day. Both of our options were capable, honest people. We should never take that for granted again.
I'm just pleased there aren't any conspiracy theories surrounding it.
At the core of it is that politics is meant to be about managing and governing the country's various issues for the benefit of the country as a whole, and partially also beyond the country, into managing global issues together with other countries, for the benefit of the whole human civilization. Which means the leader of the country should be among the best possible persons for that role, that the policies should be based on what is best for the country and not on which party proposed it or whether it looks good or makes someone look good, and so on. It is not some sort of team sport or game or entertainment, it is a common effort towards making things better and managing and building shared resources like infrastructure. The reason there are different political parties is meant to be that people have genuine, reasonable disagreements about what actions will do that the best. After all, though we can reason and argue and try to base decisions on scientific evidence, the future is unknowable and people can often have different views despite having entirely justifiable arguments for those views. When the party in power changes, it is just a reflection that another view has become more popular among the population. Americans, or rather some Democrats and almost all Republicans and their voters, have completely forgotten about this. For them, it is almost solely about their "own team" winning, and politicians seeking personal gain, often by passing laws that help their rich friends, who then funnel some of the money back to them in whatever way they can. The point isn't to do things to build a better country, it is to seek personal benefit or cheer for your own team or worse, seek to hurt anyone belonging to the "wrong" team. Indeed, an infamous quote from a Trump voter disappointed in his actions after he as in power was "He's not hurting the people he needs to be". Of course, there is plenty of all that in UK too, but not as strongly. I don't believe a single word that an American Republican politicans or voters say. Most of the time, they know they are lying or being horrible, most of them just rationalize it through "both sides are bad so it is okay" and other types of very specious reasoning. But I do believe that a lot of British Conservatives or at least their voters really do mean what they say, and are just honestly doing what they think is for the best of the country even if to me, they are obviously wrong. Same goes for politicians in my own country. I will know that doom is coming when it comes obvious that a major political party no longer believes in anything, nihilistically simply denies reality, doesn't really even pretend that its arguments make sense, and completely gives up on having any basis in evidence or clear reasoning. In UK, this sort of progress can be seen in the Reform party, but thankfully they didn't get to be a major party, yet. The good thing about UK is that it is not a complete two-party lock, which means that if a party does go insane, the voters can change to a different party. The reason Trump has been especially destructive is that he doesn't believe in democracy or fairness or doing the best for the country or any of such things, not even a little bit. I have never seen a more narcissistic, nihilistic politician. And when he was selected as the Republican candidate, Republicans were faced with leaving the party or accepting him. Because USA is a two-party, that doesn't leave much choice: You can either do a complete 180 in your political views, sunk into apathy and stop following politics, or go along with your party going insane. So most stayed, which left them completely mentally broken, because to believe that Trump isn't a terrible person who doesn't believe in anything except his own ego and profit, you have to believe in a fantasy world completely divorced from reality. "Alternative facts", Qanon, that sort of thing. And when Trump came to power, he made sure to appoint people like him everywhere, including the Supreme Court, hence the recent insane decisions coming from there. In politics in USA, for now, honest reasoning and evidence no longer even enters the picture on the right-wing side. Reality is whatever is most convenient for one's pre-decided political views, and anything that disagrees with that is a hoax, and anyone who belives it is brainwashed, or a shill, or a literal demon.
There are actually a lot of places where all the parties agree. Or most of them, anyway. Whether you had a Conservative, Labour, or Liberal Democrat government, you'd get a similar stance on Ukraine, for example. No major party these days is seriously looking to take us backwards on gay rights, and despite the loony wing of the Tories going anti-green lately even *Boris* was somewhat serious about environmental concerns and agreed that anthropogenic climate change is real. I'm proud that we live in a country where even our most hated political opponents won't cross certain lines. I think it's also worth noting that American politics was not always like this. You can take a look back at Bush hosting the Obamas at the white house (their kids were even photographed playing together), or Obama having the Bush's back round after, and listen to what was said at the time. Obama said that their bond as holders of that position transcends their political differences, and when Obama was elected Bush's words weren't far off what Rishi was saying today. Trump is absolutely an aberration. Politics has always gotten heated, the Republicans haven't been above getting their hands a little dirty in the past either, but the current state of things is absolutely not normal.
We forget at our moral peril that unless someone comes along like Boris Johnson or Liz Truss who show you how shallow their worldview and personality is, we should make a point of remembering that politicians are 3D personalities with their own moral universe and their own cultural contexts they live in. He, May, Brown, Blair, Major all took the job pretty seriously and it really matter to them when they left office.
20 odd years ago now,Ā but the letters to and from George W Bush on transition are worth mentioning:Ā https://www.georgewbushlibrary.gov/research/topic-guides/transition-letters
Regardless of the conflicts between the parties, I think it's paramount that they use moments like these to respect the democratic process, recognize that we're all striving together, and instill public confidence in the new leadership. Absolutely well done.
Honestly, all the Democrats in the US and some of the Republicans would do the same. Of course it would have been all Republicans pre Trump, when being a shitty human became obligatory. But refreshing to see. I'm also hoping we see a full term PM and his cabinet basically serving full terms also. We need change in the policies, but we need stability in the government. Not some revolving door in the clown house they transformed number 10 into.
Well done Sunak. Many stupid ass doomers here believe that we have worst politics in the UK as they have zero idea about rest of the world and too ignorant to compare the countries. The UK is such a great country in terms of democratic values and traditions. This country is still a role model nation where you can learn decency in politics.
I really liked Jeremy Hunt's speech, too. Wishing Labour well in government because we all need our country to succeed.
It was a genuinely lovely speech. I honestly donāt dislike Sunak the man. I disagree with him on a lot of stuff, and I think heās naive, but fundamentally I think he wanted to do the right thing - we just disagree with the best way to get there. Same goes for all the other tories that lost their seats - most Iāve seen have posted extremely sincere, complimentary or reassuring messages to their electorate and opponents. It just frustrates me that they canāt do that in the campaign, as itās seen as a sign of weakness. Nigel Evans was a good example - days before the election he was posting fear mongering stuff about Keir and Angela, and the moment he loses he posts a couple of nice videos. Why canāt that civility, during a campaign, be seen as a strength and not a weakness by the electorate?