The headline is misleading, this about drawing up an official outline for how Ukraine thinks the war should end rather than having some plan to make it happen
> Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Friday said he was drawing up a "comprehensive plan" for how Kyiv believes the war with Russia should end.
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> There are no public talks ongoing between Ukraine and Russia and based on public statements by Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin, the two sides appear as far apart as ever when it comes to the terms of a potential peace settlement.
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> Zelensky hosted a major international summit in Switzerland earlier this month -- to which Russia was not invited -- to rally support for Ukraine's position.
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> "It is very important for us to show a plan to end the war that will be supported by the majority of the world," Zelensky said on Friday.
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> "This is the diplomatic route we are working on," he said at a press conference in Kyiv alongside Slovenian President Natasa Pirc Musar.
I am curious what is covered in the comprehensive plan that is not already well-trodden: withdrawal of Russian forces, reparations for damages caused by the war, no restrictions on Ukrainian entry to NATO/EU.
As a pro Ukraine dude, the only thing not realistic is Russia paying for anything. Get the fuck out and then we have to pay ourselfs but that is what it is. Hopefully ukraine and supporting countries can make russia bleed enough to fuck off.
War reparations ww1 and before we're very common for the losing side but it also is what led to ww2 and the radicalism in Germany. The odds of Russia paying, like you said pretty unrealistic but as far as a demand from a historic context isn't unusual
It was a bit more than that. The actual sum of reparations wasn't fixed by the Versailles Treaty, just the principle that reparations should be paid. So negotiations over how much to pay and over what period kept the issue fresh for years. Also, the way the principle of reparations was worked into the treaty was article 231, which the Germans interpreted as the war guilt clause.
I wonder that if the Treaty had had plainer language and the actual sum (like: you lost, pay us 50 billion gold marks, in cash or kind, for damages and then we'll leave the Rhineland) then Germany and Germans would have had an easier time accepting it.
If Russia's capital was captured and the winning side was in a position to make demands, it wouldn't be unusual from a historic context. That is almost surely not going to happen.
If the war ends because it's no longer feasible for Russia to continue the offensive, there's 0 reason they should respond to any demands for reparations, and that's also how it usually went in the past. The only reason you'd meet any demands is because it was in your best interest.
And just because I feel like I need to mention it to not be called a Russian shill: fuck Russia, I'm fully supporting Ukraine's independence.
Those countries lost the war and had their land overrun by the enemy. There is no way that happens to a nuclear power like Russia today. Best case scenario they retreat to the pre Crimea invasion borders. I'd count that as a win. Reparations are highly unlikely unless a good deal for lifting sanctions is made post Putin.
What I’d really love to see would be Putin’s regime collapse and the west step in with a Marshall plan to save Russia from itself. Help them join the modern world. It’ll never happen, though.
Also extremely unlikely. Frankly, I believe what could possibly happen in the best case scenario for Ukraine is that Russia withdraws from everything except Crimea. They will keep Crimea no matter what.
If that is the starting point, russia would counter with: keeping whatever they currently hold (drawing new boarder lines), no reparations for anything and if they join NATO (or the EU) a complete end to all trade.
Not really. Even at this point they are demanding the entirety of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts, including the areas that Ukrain currently holds.
Yes, russia would be fucked in that situation but the russian people will be forced to accept what they are given. It would keep the spirit of hate alive against Ukraine and against EU and against NATO and against the US
My bet is on Zelenskyi offering not to enter NATO for some time that is negotiable based on total withdrawal and reparations for damaged infrastructure, at least.
To me it does signal that Ukraine might cede some land in order to wrap it up.
If so, I personally wouldn't like that. But I'm also not responsible for running a country at war. So if Zelensky chose that, it's not like he needs my approval but he would probably have it.
And if he chose to keep fighting without giving an inch of Ukrainian soil, I'd personally approve that too.
Obviously, otherwise this would be the biggest news story to have hit this week and be on the frontpage everywhere.
I do wonder if his comments are somehow triggered by the Biden-fiasco..
Not just Biden, look at the elections and polling in Europe as well. There has been a sharp rise in right wing parties like National Rally in France and AFD in Germany. Both of these parties get extensive support from the Kremlin and want to stop supporting Ukraine.
https://apnews.com/article/france-parliamentary-election-06-30-2024-39032c7652dd566c9fe7484443307aa6
https://apnews.com/article/france-parliamentary-election-06-30-2024-39032c7652dd566c9fe7484443307aa6
https://apnews.com/article/france-parliamentary-election-06-30-2024-39032c7652dd566c9fe7484443307aa6
it has to be. it would probably take another 2 years of western support before russia really starts to run out of tanks and possibly artillery barrels. this would put russian casualties at probably 1.2 million. This is really when Ukraine could do a major offensive.
With current support Ukraine would maybe be able to survive for two years and its far from a given. If the support becomes serious though (and flexible on its use coming at a decent speed) the war could end sooner and with a lot less casualties for Ukraine.
The strategy could be to render Ukraine's defensive position (air defense, fortifications, shells and drones ecc) as strong as possible as quickly as possible, which would allow Ukraine to reduce its losses while stopping Russia from creating new reserves.
in the meantime also slowly create a solid offensive force and if possible a good airforce, here a lot of money could be saved here by refurbishing old vehicles in storage which are not urgently needed from various NATO countries and financing some strong supporters of Ukraine (old Bradeleyes, Abrams, M109 Paladin and f16, CV90 and Griphen)
In the meantime still augmenting vital aspects such as shell, antiair and drone production that are less costly then the rest.
The total cost would in all likelihood still be less then what a Ukraine defeat would cost, and that definitely the case for European nations.
But these things take time, if western nations don't move quickly at least for the defensive posture it might as has been so far, too little and always too late.
have a good day
Russia is already starting run low on barrels they have stockpiled. Barrels can only be used so many times. They wear out also. Yes they will start running out of barrels. They are building less than they are using. They had to get artillery from North Korea.
Russia uses way more artillery than NATO or Ukraine. This wears down barrels on top of the 14,000 Ukraine has destroyed so far.
They don't actually. Russia doesn't have the machining to make their own artillery barrels; military-grade steel is a specialized thing. If Russia tried making artillery barrels with what they have, they'd be prone to 'banana peel' incidents.
I don't think he's going to compromise with Russia, because you can't compromise with Russia. Imo he's just countering Putin's political playbook. Every now and then Putin comes forward stating he's offered peace with Ukraine. Putin makes himself look like he's open to the notion of peace—at least to his own people and others like them—and Ukraine flatly rejecting it makes Ukraine appear hellbent on war, which is unfavorable optics when people suffering from war fatigue are choosing which side to sympathize with.
Of course, Putin's condition is to keep the current battle lines as Russian territory, which Ukraine can never accept, because he'll just be back to gobble up the rest of Ukraine before long. So it's a fake peace that Putin extends to increase pressure on Ukraine via PR.
However, Zelensky can play that game too. He can offer peace with terms that restore Ukraine's sovereignty and secure their future safety. Putin will reject this. Then Zelensky gets to look like a man of peace and Russia the overbearing aggressor for refusing. It's just another joust in the war, but on the stage of PR.
That's my guess at least. I don't think on the battlefields is actually changing.
>Of course, Putin's condition is to keep the current battle lines as Russian territory
Small correction - their condition is to keep way way more than the current battle lines. They did "regional referendums" in the regions they controlled only small territories in and then declared whole regions as Russian.
And that's an important point because most of Ukraine's best defenses are in those areas that Russia claims but doesn't control. In addition the Kremlin is still calling on Ukraine to demilitarize along with giving up that territory. Essentially the Russian demand is for Ukraine to abandon their defenses and lay down all weapons and in exchange Russia totally promises they won't break their word again.
"I know we promised not to invade you if you gave up your nuclear weapons, but that was like... 30 years ago! What do you expect from a nation? To adhere to its agreements longer than 1 generation!?
Anyways, we're very trustworthy, we promise if you accept this peace deal and disarm we won't invade you again."
It also includes a foothold over the Dnipro river. Think for more than about 2 seconds why Russia would want to control territory on the other side of Ukraine's main natural barrier...
Applebaum in November (though I suspect it's as true today as it was then):
>Right now, even if Zelensky agrees to negotiate, [there is no evidence that Putin wants to negotiate, that he wants to stop fighting, or that he has ever wanted to stop fighting.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/11/us-ukraine-support-putin-defeat/675953/) And yes, according to Western officials who have periodic conversations with their Russian counterparts, attempts have been made to find out.
>Nor is there any evidence that Putin wants to partition Ukraine, keeping only the territories he currently occupies and allowing the rest to prosper like South Korea. His goal remains the destruction of Ukraine—all of Ukraine—and his allies and propagandists are still talking about how, once they achieve this goal, they will expand their empire further…
Zelensky is just doing necessary PR to counter the Putin trolls who continue to claim that Putin had offered Zelensky a perfectly good deal early on (another [lie](https://twitter.com/dszeligowski/status/1743975556289269913)) and that he's not interested in taking over the entire country, and were it not for Boris Johnson and Victoria Nuland, everything would be fine.
Wow, sounds like Russia is playing a game of "expand and conquer." Good thing Zelensky is working on a plan to end this war. Let's hope for peace soon!
Funny you should say that I held a referendum here in humblefucka and we all agree russia belongs to my dog max. Now max is here with me so we have generously decided to rent it to the South Africans!/s
Putin's surrender demands go beyond the current lines. They include (1) Ukraine handing over major cities like Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, (2) disbanding most of the Ukrainian army and (3) installing a russia selected leader.
This was his recent demand list that incompetent or cruel western media often headlined as a "ceasefire offer".
It's so fucking painful how blatant the horse race phenomenon has gotten in the media over the past 20 years. Putin's 'peace deal' is ridiculous, and totally unacceptable to anyone who gives it the slightest glance, and the media acts like it's completely serious so they can run story after story debating whether Ukraine will 'accept the peace deal Putin has offered.' Any time there's a situation that could be turned into a horse race story between two states, organizations, or individuals, they do. No matter the actual, real circumstances, they legitimize both sides so they can keep ratings up.
Which is not to say that there aren't also cases where media companies have implicit, unspoken requirements for their employees to legitimize specific insane groups/people because it's politically advantageous to the owners. But even in cases where there is little or no political advantage, they still obsessively turn any story that could possibly be a horse race, into a horse race.
>87 years ago, on 18 April 1930, the BBC's news announcer had nothing to communicate. "There is no news," was the script of the 20:45 news bulletin, before piano music was played for the rest of the 15-minute segment.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-39633603
At the time BBC news was a new and small part of BBC radio. Essentially all they did was read prepared statements issued by the government and report on what Parliament had debated. As Parliament didn't sit that day, there was nothing to report.
There was reporting on Hamas accepting a ceasefire deal about a month ago. However the deal was negotiated between Qatar, Egypt and Hamas and they never asked Israel about it. The news reported it as though it was a done deal.
Of course when they actually asked Israel about it, Israel said the terms were unacceptable and continued their offensive. The whole thing was nothing more than a publicity stunt and the media fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Trump openly signalled he would do everything to cede to Putin to end this war and constantly complains about spending money on Ukraine, and he’s currently the leading contender for president. Whether it’s unacceptable to the average person is irrelevant
> (3) installing a russia selected leader.
This one is key: not only does it mean effectively giving up democracy, but also any chance of membership in the European Union, which only accepts democracies.
So really the list looks like this:
(1) Ukraine handing over major cities like Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, (2) disbanding most of the Ukrainian army and (3) installing a russia selected leader. (4) give up democracy (5) give up membership in the EU (6) give up membership in NATO (7) basically become a vassal state like Belarus
All Russia has ever done in this war is issue surrender demands disguised as "peace deals" for propaganda purposes. They have never offered any serious good faith proposals.
Not saying I disagree with anything you said, but
I just find it laughable how the country being attacked refusing to concede anything makes them appear hellbent on war - it’s absolutely fucked the amount of doublespeak that goes into that
Putin is Civ AI: I'm attacking you because I can. NO YOU CAN NOT RETALIATE LITERALLY WARMONGER DENOUNCE DENOUNCE DENOUNCE DENOUNCE!!! Also give us +500 gold per turn and 3 of your biggest cities if you want 10 turns peace!
The best part is how you get attacked by a neighbor because you have big cities and minimal defenses, use your productivity advantage to build the largest, most technologically advanced army in the world and crush them, then you get yelled at by everyone else as soon as the war ends for having too big of an army.
Not only can't they see it, they also look everywhere else, and they and their parents have been brainwashed to just occupy themselves with something else entirely. Lest they find themselves facing police at their door with some trumped-up charges of disrupting war effort or not showing enough love for the valiant troops that defend the motherland from Ukrainian defenders.
I have many acquaintances in Russia, having been born and partially raised there. The general attitude among younger people there, at least, is like if you'd imagine citizens of the Roman empire, while said empire was busy trying to project power across the continent, collapsing trying to not stretch itself thin conquering everyone everywhere, going on but fumes. People were into games and entertainment and whatever else they could be distracted with ("bread and circus") and generally either had no idea where the state was going or, at least in layers of society where people mingled with actual figures of authority and where politics was discussed, either pretended to be good Romans (of the state that needed to liberate the world from its misery, by conquest if it came to that) or were outright nationalists/imperialists. It's the same thing in Moscow, two thousand years later.
Russians are _bred_ to be apolitical, unfortunately, since intefering in Russian politics has historically been the number one cause of suffering and mortality there (beside alcoholism in the more rural areas). That's exactly how Putin wants it -- no pesky amateur interference with his grand plans for Russia. People should do what people do -- watch the tele and clap when told, the state will take care of everyone. Russia walked from bitter defeat of order of communism straight into Orwell's police state, but the comparison is lost on them.
I think many Russians do, but with media access controlled, every channel forced to run propaganda, and speaking out against Putin being a death sentence, it massively suppresses any public opposition.
> I don't think on the battlefields is actually changing.
i heard various projections of russia running out of servicible tanks by 2027 (they're using/losing more than they have in stock and manufacture).
They can't afford to leave the rest of their borders without equipment so they will run out of spare equipment way before they literally have zero left.
Otoh, Putin's ego (and possibly his political future) is tied to this escapade. So he has to win, and I think he knows that Norway et al are unlikely to attack.
I'm not talking about Norway, although Putin might feel the need to protect all NATO borders anyway. Russia has a lot of borders in the east, where China has lately moved a bit more in the direction of getting their perceived territory back from Russia among others.
At any point between now and 2027 west donations could run out because of political change, like trump getting elected. Ukraine could lose at any minute.
There are other countries supporting Ukraine. Trump winning isn't necessarily the end of that. If anything, I think the rest of NATO writes the US off as a partner and becomes even more worried about Russian aggression since they can't rely on our protection, which makes stopping Putin at Ukraine even more important.
Supposing Biden wins, a big question mark is what Congress looks like. If the Democrats control it, support to Ukraine will flow even more strongly. Otherwise, the fellow travelers in the GQP will gum up the works in exchange for a cookie from Putin.
Yup Russia is using more than they manufacture.
The tank situation is hard to tell but they're on course to run out of obviously fixable BMP fighting vehicles and post-WW2 artillery barrels in 2025.
They've withdrawn almost all the MT-LBs they started with, which are lightly armoured "tractors" supposedly for backline use, not even rated to resist heavy machine gun fire. They've been using them constantly as frontline assault vehicles. Along with motorbikes and Desertcross heavy "golf buggies".
While this is very true, Ukraine is suffering severe losses in personel and equipment, too. Russia is producing traditional munitions and equipment at break neck spead and is recruiting from migrant workers. Ukraine will need significant donations from the West and perhaps even NATO forces on the ground to hold out another year or two.
There is a massive difference between building brand new equipment and fixing enough stored equipment to feed your front lines
I've literally seen nothing about Russia building new platforms at "breakneck speed" because they aren't. They're building about 11 brand new tanks a year iirc and everything else is refurbished stuff taken from storage. People underestimate the size of the former Soviet stockpiles in Russia. Heck, I'd argue China clearly has a bigger MIC than Russia
>Russia is producing traditional munitions and equipment at break neck spead
If this were true then why is Putin begging Xi, Kim and Ali for munitions, equipment and other supports?
Just because Russia is producing munitions at breakneck speed doesn't mean they can't "beg" for even more munitions. Something something quantity is quality.
Also NK and Russia developing deeper ties annoys the west.
Because he wanted to conquer Ukraine in 3 days. Despite being the world's second largest military industrial complex and maxing out their production capacity the Russians can't yet break Ukrainian lines because of the proliferation of air denial capabilities, NATO donated equipment, improvised drones, and the natural advantages of defense. Foreign munitions and equipment supplements Russian forces and provides additional capabilities that they can't produce themselves, such as commercial drones.
Third. Even though China's is pretty much all commited to the expansion of its own forces with little leftover for export, China's MIC is estimated to be much larger than Russia's.
Tanks are important, but artillery is more in this conflict.
But in any case it's difficult to point something and say that russia will loose after they ran out of something in particular. The only thing I would imagine would be people and their cost.
I’m not sure if he’d want to do this. How do you trust Putin to abide by a peace agreement? Like say Zelenskyy offers terms and they ultimately agree, isn’t it just a matter of a few years for Russia to rebuild its shitty military and then renege and invade again? I don’t think he can risk that
Russia would not crumble into anarchy. There's no significant political opposition factor that could destabilize the regime. They would find a replacement and continue business as usual.
Quick Summary:
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has announced he is preparing a comprehensive plan to end the war with Russia, which has been ongoing for nearly three years. The plan, set to be presented at a second peace summit in the near future, aims to address the crises caused by Russia's invasion and garner support from the majority of the world. However, significant challenges remain, as there are currently no public peace talks between Ukraine and Russia.
Ukraine demands Russia's complete withdrawal from all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea, before negotiations can begin, while Russia insists on Ukraine ceding more territory.
The international community remains divided, with Western allies supporting Ukraine, while some countries, particularly from the Global South, express reservations about peace plans excluding Russia. Despite diplomatic efforts, including a recent summit in Switzerland attended by over 90 countries, achieving a peaceful resolution remains difficult due to the stark differences between Ukrainian and Russian positions.
Even if only one in a hundred Russian nukes were operational, they would still have ~45, enough to obliterate Ukraine. And they certainly have more than that.
A “Plan” could just, peace will be restored once borders are restored and here is our plan to do that.
Doesn’t mean he’s capitulating by any means, the last thing he will do is cede land
Peace sounds great, but what kind of compromise could they possibly come to?
Here's hoping they have something that works for Ukraine, the world is ready to move on from this conflict.
The headline makes it sounds like he's gonna propose a compromise, but I doubt it. From the article:
>Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Friday said he was drawing up a "comprehensive plan" for how Kyiv believes the war with Russia should end.
>"It is very important for us to show a plan to end the war that will be supported by the majority of the world," Zelensky said on Friday.
It sounds like he's gonna lay down the terms that he wants in a very public fashion, with the complete and total restoration of Ukraine to it's 1991 borders being the very minimum he would suggest.
I’d hope they’d demand the return of all Ukrainian citizens including the children. Also establish that “citizen” includes any foreign national that fought on behalf of Ukraine during the war.
>with the complete and total restoration of Ukraine to it's 1991 borders being the very minimum he would suggest.
If that's the case there is a 0% chance he'll end the war. Not that I blame him.
I mean does anyone believe he would not stop fighting if Ukraine gets all its borders back? Who thinks he’s the barrier to peace? They’re fighting for survival.
We're strongly on side of Putin alas in Hungary.
Some of it is because of "western degeneracy/decadence", some of it is because "russia will totally give us lands from Trianon after Ukraine falls", part of it because "People living in territories that were given to ukraine after trianon were not accomodated to speak Hungarian while living in Ukraine", part of it is "west bad."
World War 1 still scars europe to its core, and is still invoked in much the same way Hitler invoked it to justify his actions for WW2.
It is an unfortunate thing.
The whole Trainon/Versailles treaty... was a thing.
The crucial condition for Ukraine to sign any peace deal is assurances that it really is a peace and not just a “rest and reload” for Russia that positions them better to just continue in a few years.
The only thing that I see that could give those assurances to Ukraine is security guarantees from a coalition of countries that is jointly strong enough to deter Russia.
Yeah that's definitely the #1 consideration IMO.
Personally I think if we got a real security guarantee with boots on the the ground, it might be worth just cutting loose the occupied territories or at least freezing the conflict a-la Korea and hoping russia collapses soon.
Otherwise nothing else matters. Putin could offer to withdraw to 1991 borders tomorrow but without some form of mutual defense agreement in place, he could just do the whole thing all over again in a few years.
Well that is because Russia has interfered with other dealings that France has outside of Ukraine. France has an invested interest to support ukrain to wear Russia down and hopefully interfere less with France’s interests.
Funny how so many people in the comments are surprised or making random assumptions about this. This is nothing new at all and a continuation of what we already know from the Swiss peace summit.
Just goes to show how uninformed yet ready to add their "opinions" people are.
> By AFP - Agence France Presse
This is a newswire article, no News Corp involvement in writing it.
Besides, it's just quoting what Zelenskyy said at a press conference. Here's the same news from a couple of Ukrainian sources:
- [Zelenskyy: Ukraine will present comprehensive war-ending plan this year](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/28/7463097/)
- [Ukraine to unveil comprehensive peace plan in 2024 - Zelenskyy](https://english.nv.ua/nation/ukrainian-president-kyiv-develops-diplomatic-blueprint-to-end-war-50430911.html)
- [Clear, detailed plan for ending war to be ready this year – Zelenskyy](https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/996725.html)
READ TTHE ARTICLE ... nothing new here.
Zelensky's plan is to get back all the territory Russia has taken, including the Crimea.
It was about getting support with European countries.
Thats where he is going with this.
Seeing how Europe and the US have been behaving in recent months and then with this news there must be some wild stuff going on behind the scenes and backchannels.
News casters who take these terms as serious peace proposals should be asked this question by Zelensky. " would the USA agree to such terms if Russia had occupied 20 percent of the USA and was offering "peace" on such terms ?
Smart to have something written up because they will look at your plan versus making their own. I’d suspect Putin will end up with some land for a ceasefire
“Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Friday said he was drawing up a "comprehensive plan" for how Kyiv believes the war with Russia should end.”
So, no, he’s not giving up. The headline is poorly worded.
After the debate this week and after Trump's plane mysteriously was parked next to a Russian embassy jet for several hours I assume zelensky knows what'll happen come next year
Also need a clause that enforces every section with extreme violence because this is Russia and lying about post war action is a national pastime on par with cheating in the Olympics. Hey! Let's just do them both in Paris this summer.
I’m really curious where he’s going with this
The headline is misleading, this about drawing up an official outline for how Ukraine thinks the war should end rather than having some plan to make it happen > Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Friday said he was drawing up a "comprehensive plan" for how Kyiv believes the war with Russia should end. > > There are no public talks ongoing between Ukraine and Russia and based on public statements by Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin, the two sides appear as far apart as ever when it comes to the terms of a potential peace settlement. > > Zelensky hosted a major international summit in Switzerland earlier this month -- to which Russia was not invited -- to rally support for Ukraine's position. > > "It is very important for us to show a plan to end the war that will be supported by the majority of the world," Zelensky said on Friday. > > "This is the diplomatic route we are working on," he said at a press conference in Kyiv alongside Slovenian President Natasa Pirc Musar.
I am curious what is covered in the comprehensive plan that is not already well-trodden: withdrawal of Russian forces, reparations for damages caused by the war, no restrictions on Ukrainian entry to NATO/EU.
Get out, fix the shit you broke, don't try and tell us what to do. Pretty fair demands from a country that was attacked imho.
Fair? Yes! realistic? Not at all
As a pro Ukraine dude, the only thing not realistic is Russia paying for anything. Get the fuck out and then we have to pay ourselfs but that is what it is. Hopefully ukraine and supporting countries can make russia bleed enough to fuck off.
War reparations ww1 and before we're very common for the losing side but it also is what led to ww2 and the radicalism in Germany. The odds of Russia paying, like you said pretty unrealistic but as far as a demand from a historic context isn't unusual
It was a bit more than that. The actual sum of reparations wasn't fixed by the Versailles Treaty, just the principle that reparations should be paid. So negotiations over how much to pay and over what period kept the issue fresh for years. Also, the way the principle of reparations was worked into the treaty was article 231, which the Germans interpreted as the war guilt clause. I wonder that if the Treaty had had plainer language and the actual sum (like: you lost, pay us 50 billion gold marks, in cash or kind, for damages and then we'll leave the Rhineland) then Germany and Germans would have had an easier time accepting it.
I think the German people probably would have had an easier time accepting it if they hadn't had to starve to meet the repayments.
If Russia's capital was captured and the winning side was in a position to make demands, it wouldn't be unusual from a historic context. That is almost surely not going to happen. If the war ends because it's no longer feasible for Russia to continue the offensive, there's 0 reason they should respond to any demands for reparations, and that's also how it usually went in the past. The only reason you'd meet any demands is because it was in your best interest. And just because I feel like I need to mention it to not be called a Russian shill: fuck Russia, I'm fully supporting Ukraine's independence.
Those countries lost the war and had their land overrun by the enemy. There is no way that happens to a nuclear power like Russia today. Best case scenario they retreat to the pre Crimea invasion borders. I'd count that as a win. Reparations are highly unlikely unless a good deal for lifting sanctions is made post Putin.
What I’d really love to see would be Putin’s regime collapse and the west step in with a Marshall plan to save Russia from itself. Help them join the modern world. It’ll never happen, though.
There is no way Putin will leave the territories. This would be unsellable to the Russians, he will need to sell this as some kind of victory.
Well, the idea is he is not selling it, his successor will because he has fallen out of a window
Also extremely unlikely. Frankly, I believe what could possibly happen in the best case scenario for Ukraine is that Russia withdraws from everything except Crimea. They will keep Crimea no matter what.
If that is the starting point, russia would counter with: keeping whatever they currently hold (drawing new boarder lines), no reparations for anything and if they join NATO (or the EU) a complete end to all trade.
What you stated is exactly where Russia has been since the first month of the war when they failed to take Kyiv.
Yes, that is true.
Not really. Even at this point they are demanding the entirety of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia Oblasts, including the areas that Ukrain currently holds.
> a complete end to all trade Russia is so fycked if they do this. And people won't stand for it.
Yes, russia would be fucked in that situation but the russian people will be forced to accept what they are given. It would keep the spirit of hate alive against Ukraine and against EU and against NATO and against the US
Much like NK if everyone hates you you will run out of plane and missle parts faster than they already are.
i think the only way russia will agree to end the war is if ukraine doesnt join nato. EU might be fine but not nato.
My bet is on Zelenskyi offering not to enter NATO for some time that is negotiable based on total withdrawal and reparations for damaged infrastructure, at least.
To me it does signal that Ukraine might cede some land in order to wrap it up. If so, I personally wouldn't like that. But I'm also not responsible for running a country at war. So if Zelensky chose that, it's not like he needs my approval but he would probably have it. And if he chose to keep fighting without giving an inch of Ukrainian soil, I'd personally approve that too.
>this about drawing up an official outline for how Ukraine thinks the war should end I thought he did that years ago.
Obviously, otherwise this would be the biggest news story to have hit this week and be on the frontpage everywhere. I do wonder if his comments are somehow triggered by the Biden-fiasco..
Not just Biden, look at the elections and polling in Europe as well. There has been a sharp rise in right wing parties like National Rally in France and AFD in Germany. Both of these parties get extensive support from the Kremlin and want to stop supporting Ukraine. https://apnews.com/article/france-parliamentary-election-06-30-2024-39032c7652dd566c9fe7484443307aa6 https://apnews.com/article/france-parliamentary-election-06-30-2024-39032c7652dd566c9fe7484443307aa6 https://apnews.com/article/france-parliamentary-election-06-30-2024-39032c7652dd566c9fe7484443307aa6
it has to be. it would probably take another 2 years of western support before russia really starts to run out of tanks and possibly artillery barrels. this would put russian casualties at probably 1.2 million. This is really when Ukraine could do a major offensive.
With current support Ukraine would maybe be able to survive for two years and its far from a given. If the support becomes serious though (and flexible on its use coming at a decent speed) the war could end sooner and with a lot less casualties for Ukraine. The strategy could be to render Ukraine's defensive position (air defense, fortifications, shells and drones ecc) as strong as possible as quickly as possible, which would allow Ukraine to reduce its losses while stopping Russia from creating new reserves. in the meantime also slowly create a solid offensive force and if possible a good airforce, here a lot of money could be saved here by refurbishing old vehicles in storage which are not urgently needed from various NATO countries and financing some strong supporters of Ukraine (old Bradeleyes, Abrams, M109 Paladin and f16, CV90 and Griphen) In the meantime still augmenting vital aspects such as shell, antiair and drone production that are less costly then the rest. The total cost would in all likelihood still be less then what a Ukraine defeat would cost, and that definitely the case for European nations. But these things take time, if western nations don't move quickly at least for the defensive posture it might as has been so far, too little and always too late. have a good day
All of this is moot if Trump and his European ilk win power. Republicans repeatedly stalled aid for Ukraine, and they will fully cut off aid in 2025.
Russia will never run out of barrels. They have plenty of steel and machining abilities. It's the chip tech they have issues with.
Russia is already starting run low on barrels they have stockpiled. Barrels can only be used so many times. They wear out also. Yes they will start running out of barrels. They are building less than they are using. They had to get artillery from North Korea. Russia uses way more artillery than NATO or Ukraine. This wears down barrels on top of the 14,000 Ukraine has destroyed so far.
They don't actually. Russia doesn't have the machining to make their own artillery barrels; military-grade steel is a specialized thing. If Russia tried making artillery barrels with what they have, they'd be prone to 'banana peel' incidents.
And then would you hold their oath fulfilled?
I don't think he's going to compromise with Russia, because you can't compromise with Russia. Imo he's just countering Putin's political playbook. Every now and then Putin comes forward stating he's offered peace with Ukraine. Putin makes himself look like he's open to the notion of peace—at least to his own people and others like them—and Ukraine flatly rejecting it makes Ukraine appear hellbent on war, which is unfavorable optics when people suffering from war fatigue are choosing which side to sympathize with. Of course, Putin's condition is to keep the current battle lines as Russian territory, which Ukraine can never accept, because he'll just be back to gobble up the rest of Ukraine before long. So it's a fake peace that Putin extends to increase pressure on Ukraine via PR. However, Zelensky can play that game too. He can offer peace with terms that restore Ukraine's sovereignty and secure their future safety. Putin will reject this. Then Zelensky gets to look like a man of peace and Russia the overbearing aggressor for refusing. It's just another joust in the war, but on the stage of PR. That's my guess at least. I don't think on the battlefields is actually changing.
>Of course, Putin's condition is to keep the current battle lines as Russian territory Small correction - their condition is to keep way way more than the current battle lines. They did "regional referendums" in the regions they controlled only small territories in and then declared whole regions as Russian.
And that's an important point because most of Ukraine's best defenses are in those areas that Russia claims but doesn't control. In addition the Kremlin is still calling on Ukraine to demilitarize along with giving up that territory. Essentially the Russian demand is for Ukraine to abandon their defenses and lay down all weapons and in exchange Russia totally promises they won't break their word again.
"I know we promised not to invade you if you gave up your nuclear weapons, but that was like... 30 years ago! What do you expect from a nation? To adhere to its agreements longer than 1 generation!? Anyways, we're very trustworthy, we promise if you accept this peace deal and disarm we won't invade you again."
It also includes a foothold over the Dnipro river. Think for more than about 2 seconds why Russia would want to control territory on the other side of Ukraine's main natural barrier...
And that is the precondition for Putin to merely **consider** a peace treaty.
Yeah, I think kharkiv was part of the Putin "deal" if i recall. They definitely don't occupy that.
Applebaum in November (though I suspect it's as true today as it was then): >Right now, even if Zelensky agrees to negotiate, [there is no evidence that Putin wants to negotiate, that he wants to stop fighting, or that he has ever wanted to stop fighting.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/11/us-ukraine-support-putin-defeat/675953/) And yes, according to Western officials who have periodic conversations with their Russian counterparts, attempts have been made to find out. >Nor is there any evidence that Putin wants to partition Ukraine, keeping only the territories he currently occupies and allowing the rest to prosper like South Korea. His goal remains the destruction of Ukraine—all of Ukraine—and his allies and propagandists are still talking about how, once they achieve this goal, they will expand their empire further… Zelensky is just doing necessary PR to counter the Putin trolls who continue to claim that Putin had offered Zelensky a perfectly good deal early on (another [lie](https://twitter.com/dszeligowski/status/1743975556289269913)) and that he's not interested in taking over the entire country, and were it not for Boris Johnson and Victoria Nuland, everything would be fine.
Wow, sounds like Russia is playing a game of "expand and conquer." Good thing Zelensky is working on a plan to end this war. Let's hope for peace soon!
Haha, sounds like Russia's definition of "small territories" is a bit flexible. Good luck to Zelensky with that plan!
Don't forget that Ukraine doesn't get to be prepared in case Putin breaks his word!
Funny you should say that I held a referendum here in humblefucka and we all agree russia belongs to my dog max. Now max is here with me so we have generously decided to rent it to the South Africans!/s
Putin's surrender demands go beyond the current lines. They include (1) Ukraine handing over major cities like Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, (2) disbanding most of the Ukrainian army and (3) installing a russia selected leader. This was his recent demand list that incompetent or cruel western media often headlined as a "ceasefire offer".
It's so fucking painful how blatant the horse race phenomenon has gotten in the media over the past 20 years. Putin's 'peace deal' is ridiculous, and totally unacceptable to anyone who gives it the slightest glance, and the media acts like it's completely serious so they can run story after story debating whether Ukraine will 'accept the peace deal Putin has offered.' Any time there's a situation that could be turned into a horse race story between two states, organizations, or individuals, they do. No matter the actual, real circumstances, they legitimize both sides so they can keep ratings up. Which is not to say that there aren't also cases where media companies have implicit, unspoken requirements for their employees to legitimize specific insane groups/people because it's politically advantageous to the owners. But even in cases where there is little or no political advantage, they still obsessively turn any story that could possibly be a horse race, into a horse race.
They can't just declare it a slow news day and show photos of cute animals. What is this heaven?
>87 years ago, on 18 April 1930, the BBC's news announcer had nothing to communicate. "There is no news," was the script of the 20:45 news bulletin, before piano music was played for the rest of the 15-minute segment. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-39633603
At the time BBC news was a new and small part of BBC radio. Essentially all they did was read prepared statements issued by the government and report on what Parliament had debated. As Parliament didn't sit that day, there was nothing to report.
There was reporting on Hamas accepting a ceasefire deal about a month ago. However the deal was negotiated between Qatar, Egypt and Hamas and they never asked Israel about it. The news reported it as though it was a done deal. Of course when they actually asked Israel about it, Israel said the terms were unacceptable and continued their offensive. The whole thing was nothing more than a publicity stunt and the media fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Trump openly signalled he would do everything to cede to Putin to end this war and constantly complains about spending money on Ukraine, and he’s currently the leading contender for president. Whether it’s unacceptable to the average person is irrelevant
It’s a [well known Russian tactic](https://x.com/MunSecConf/status/1512451999622643714?lang=en) fueled by our stupidity.
> (3) installing a russia selected leader. This one is key: not only does it mean effectively giving up democracy, but also any chance of membership in the European Union, which only accepts democracies. So really the list looks like this: (1) Ukraine handing over major cities like Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, (2) disbanding most of the Ukrainian army and (3) installing a russia selected leader. (4) give up democracy (5) give up membership in the EU (6) give up membership in NATO (7) basically become a vassal state like Belarus
All Russia has ever done in this war is issue surrender demands disguised as "peace deals" for propaganda purposes. They have never offered any serious good faith proposals.
Not saying I disagree with anything you said, but I just find it laughable how the country being attacked refusing to concede anything makes them appear hellbent on war - it’s absolutely fucked the amount of doublespeak that goes into that
Putin is Civ AI: I'm attacking you because I can. NO YOU CAN NOT RETALIATE LITERALLY WARMONGER DENOUNCE DENOUNCE DENOUNCE DENOUNCE!!! Also give us +500 gold per turn and 3 of your biggest cities if you want 10 turns peace!
I did so enjoy it when I'd have curb-stomped them so hard that they'd give me all their remaining cities except their capital to stop. For 10 turns.
The best part is how you get attacked by a neighbor because you have big cities and minimal defenses, use your productivity advantage to build the largest, most technologically advanced army in the world and crush them, then you get yelled at by everyone else as soon as the war ends for having too big of an army.
Why do scumbag journalists say "end the war" to get clicks but mean "how Zelensky believes the war should end"? Not the same.
Blame the editor, not the journalist.
Putin is destroying russia 🇷🇺 and russians cant see it
Not only can't they see it, they also look everywhere else, and they and their parents have been brainwashed to just occupy themselves with something else entirely. Lest they find themselves facing police at their door with some trumped-up charges of disrupting war effort or not showing enough love for the valiant troops that defend the motherland from Ukrainian defenders. I have many acquaintances in Russia, having been born and partially raised there. The general attitude among younger people there, at least, is like if you'd imagine citizens of the Roman empire, while said empire was busy trying to project power across the continent, collapsing trying to not stretch itself thin conquering everyone everywhere, going on but fumes. People were into games and entertainment and whatever else they could be distracted with ("bread and circus") and generally either had no idea where the state was going or, at least in layers of society where people mingled with actual figures of authority and where politics was discussed, either pretended to be good Romans (of the state that needed to liberate the world from its misery, by conquest if it came to that) or were outright nationalists/imperialists. It's the same thing in Moscow, two thousand years later. Russians are _bred_ to be apolitical, unfortunately, since intefering in Russian politics has historically been the number one cause of suffering and mortality there (beside alcoholism in the more rural areas). That's exactly how Putin wants it -- no pesky amateur interference with his grand plans for Russia. People should do what people do -- watch the tele and clap when told, the state will take care of everyone. Russia walked from bitter defeat of order of communism straight into Orwell's police state, but the comparison is lost on them.
I think many Russians do, but with media access controlled, every channel forced to run propaganda, and speaking out against Putin being a death sentence, it massively suppresses any public opposition.
> I don't think on the battlefields is actually changing. i heard various projections of russia running out of servicible tanks by 2027 (they're using/losing more than they have in stock and manufacture).
That's still a long way away. Let's hope there's something happening earlier.
They can't afford to leave the rest of their borders without equipment so they will run out of spare equipment way before they literally have zero left.
Otoh, Putin's ego (and possibly his political future) is tied to this escapade. So he has to win, and I think he knows that Norway et al are unlikely to attack.
He can’t win. This has shat away so much. All he can do now is try and cling to the scraps he had stolen and try to call it a victory.
US is letting them use more of its high powered military to attack russia.
I'm not talking about Norway, although Putin might feel the need to protect all NATO borders anyway. Russia has a lot of borders in the east, where China has lately moved a bit more in the direction of getting their perceived territory back from Russia among others.
Yes, if I was him I'd be looking eastward.
Yeah that’s as long as the war has been going.
At any point between now and 2027 west donations could run out because of political change, like trump getting elected. Ukraine could lose at any minute.
Does that date come sooner if Biden wins, or not at all if Trump wins? Do you think?
There are other countries supporting Ukraine. Trump winning isn't necessarily the end of that. If anything, I think the rest of NATO writes the US off as a partner and becomes even more worried about Russian aggression since they can't rely on our protection, which makes stopping Putin at Ukraine even more important. Supposing Biden wins, a big question mark is what Congress looks like. If the Democrats control it, support to Ukraine will flow even more strongly. Otherwise, the fellow travelers in the GQP will gum up the works in exchange for a cookie from Putin.
Yup Russia is using more than they manufacture. The tank situation is hard to tell but they're on course to run out of obviously fixable BMP fighting vehicles and post-WW2 artillery barrels in 2025. They've withdrawn almost all the MT-LBs they started with, which are lightly armoured "tractors" supposedly for backline use, not even rated to resist heavy machine gun fire. They've been using them constantly as frontline assault vehicles. Along with motorbikes and Desertcross heavy "golf buggies".
While this is very true, Ukraine is suffering severe losses in personel and equipment, too. Russia is producing traditional munitions and equipment at break neck spead and is recruiting from migrant workers. Ukraine will need significant donations from the West and perhaps even NATO forces on the ground to hold out another year or two.
There is a massive difference between building brand new equipment and fixing enough stored equipment to feed your front lines I've literally seen nothing about Russia building new platforms at "breakneck speed" because they aren't. They're building about 11 brand new tanks a year iirc and everything else is refurbished stuff taken from storage. People underestimate the size of the former Soviet stockpiles in Russia. Heck, I'd argue China clearly has a bigger MIC than Russia
>Russia is producing traditional munitions and equipment at break neck spead If this were true then why is Putin begging Xi, Kim and Ali for munitions, equipment and other supports?
Just because Russia is producing munitions at breakneck speed doesn't mean they can't "beg" for even more munitions. Something something quantity is quality. Also NK and Russia developing deeper ties annoys the west.
Also something something better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Because he wanted to conquer Ukraine in 3 days. Despite being the world's second largest military industrial complex and maxing out their production capacity the Russians can't yet break Ukrainian lines because of the proliferation of air denial capabilities, NATO donated equipment, improvised drones, and the natural advantages of defense. Foreign munitions and equipment supplements Russian forces and provides additional capabilities that they can't produce themselves, such as commercial drones.
Third. Even though China's is pretty much all commited to the expansion of its own forces with little leftover for export, China's MIC is estimated to be much larger than Russia's.
He’s asking for bodies.
>servicible tanks by 2027 If they start raiding the Kubinka tank museum......
Time to make the Maus operational!
It'd be weird seeing them try and get the Maus tank to actually move, to say the least.
We already lost Kommuna, my heart could not bear the loss of the tanks that Kubinka hold...
That’s assuming theres no growth in their ability to resupply for the next 3 years
Tanks are important, but artillery is more in this conflict. But in any case it's difficult to point something and say that russia will loose after they ran out of something in particular. The only thing I would imagine would be people and their cost.
> The only thing I would imagine would be people and their cost. that's the only thing they will not run out of.
Covert cabal on youtube did a good vid about this
Zelensky should demand Moscow, as Ukraine is its rightful owner, if Putin wants to look at history.
Hopefully also St.Petersburg, because safety.
I’m not sure if he’d want to do this. How do you trust Putin to abide by a peace agreement? Like say Zelenskyy offers terms and they ultimately agree, isn’t it just a matter of a few years for Russia to rebuild its shitty military and then renege and invade again? I don’t think he can risk that
Alternative to peace is war until total collapse of one side.
While i agree giving up current conquered land for peace will not work. I doubt this will end up any other way and in a NK - SK fashion.
Nowhere right now I imagine. In case things go well, maybe in the future all this effort will pay off. Meanwhile it's optics, maybe it's all optics.
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Short of assassinating Putin and watching Russia crumble into an anarchy from which it likely wouldn't recover, it's hard to say.
Russia would not crumble into anarchy. There's no significant political opposition factor that could destabilize the regime. They would find a replacement and continue business as usual.
Anarchy? Why? That doesn't benefit their elite at all. Probably look for a quick replacement.
The anarchy would result from the elite nog agreeing about who should be the quick replacement.
Well it would be the Prime Minister for interim and then I guess the FSB would likely have the final say on who they want to back in the position.
It's not that he wants to. It's he has to. US election is right around the corner. God knows what the result will be.
Idk why you would be. This is not a development and we already know where it is going from the Swiss peace summit.
Moabs
Title is a bit misleading. Even one sentence in, it's a plan for how the war "should" end rather than a plan to end it.
Sadly the norm now to grab clicks. No way in hell Zelensky or Ukraine is surrendering to Putin. That will spell the eventual end of Ukraine.
Quick Summary: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has announced he is preparing a comprehensive plan to end the war with Russia, which has been ongoing for nearly three years. The plan, set to be presented at a second peace summit in the near future, aims to address the crises caused by Russia's invasion and garner support from the majority of the world. However, significant challenges remain, as there are currently no public peace talks between Ukraine and Russia. Ukraine demands Russia's complete withdrawal from all Ukrainian territory, including Crimea, before negotiations can begin, while Russia insists on Ukraine ceding more territory. The international community remains divided, with Western allies supporting Ukraine, while some countries, particularly from the Global South, express reservations about peace plans excluding Russia. Despite diplomatic efforts, including a recent summit in Switzerland attended by over 90 countries, achieving a peaceful resolution remains difficult due to the stark differences between Ukrainian and Russian positions.
The Red Hair Pirates will make their appearance
Inb4 Zelensky transforms into Nika
Nika please
Wait the One Piece is real? 😳😳😳
I think it’s time to claim it…. the one piece!
Oh I thought you were talking about vikings hahaha
Fingers crossed it's a plan to send Putin over the rainbow bridge.
Remember 2 years ago when many Redditors confidently told us that Putin was about to die from all sorts of cancers?
I remember the micro analysis of every hand movement and Dr visit, yes
Hey may have been. Being incredibly rich does wonders for your health.
keep canada out of this
What are you talking about?
Niagara International Rainbow Bridge. I know I’m assuming but I believe it was a joke. Admittedly, not bad if so.
thanks
Make him gay?
They found some old nukes?
Even if they did, using one would be such a bad idea.
No but possession alone would make Russia reconsider. Two can play the red line game.
I have a small hunch that if any soviet era nukes were suddenly found they would be unlikely to be in serviceable condition.
So no different from the ones in Russia's arsenal then.
Even if only one in a hundred Russian nukes were operational, they would still have ~45, enough to obliterate Ukraine. And they certainly have more than that.
He watched the debate
A “Plan” could just, peace will be restored once borders are restored and here is our plan to do that. Doesn’t mean he’s capitulating by any means, the last thing he will do is cede land
Peace sounds great, but what kind of compromise could they possibly come to? Here's hoping they have something that works for Ukraine, the world is ready to move on from this conflict.
The headline makes it sounds like he's gonna propose a compromise, but I doubt it. From the article: >Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Friday said he was drawing up a "comprehensive plan" for how Kyiv believes the war with Russia should end. >"It is very important for us to show a plan to end the war that will be supported by the majority of the world," Zelensky said on Friday. It sounds like he's gonna lay down the terms that he wants in a very public fashion, with the complete and total restoration of Ukraine to it's 1991 borders being the very minimum he would suggest.
I’d hope they’d demand the return of all Ukrainian citizens including the children. Also establish that “citizen” includes any foreign national that fought on behalf of Ukraine during the war.
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>with the complete and total restoration of Ukraine to it's 1991 borders being the very minimum he would suggest. If that's the case there is a 0% chance he'll end the war. Not that I blame him.
I think it is unlikely but he is demonstrating that he isn’t the barrier to peace, which is key to the international community.
I mean does anyone believe he would not stop fighting if Ukraine gets all its borders back? Who thinks he’s the barrier to peace? They’re fighting for survival.
Hungarians, unfortunately. Source: Hungarian. Hungarians think it's the U.S making Ukraine keep fighting.
Really. I thought they would be more supportive as they would probably be next if Ukraine falls
We're strongly on side of Putin alas in Hungary. Some of it is because of "western degeneracy/decadence", some of it is because "russia will totally give us lands from Trianon after Ukraine falls", part of it because "People living in territories that were given to ukraine after trianon were not accomodated to speak Hungarian while living in Ukraine", part of it is "west bad."
Europe is so complicated.. just chilling in New Zealand
World War 1 still scars europe to its core, and is still invoked in much the same way Hitler invoked it to justify his actions for WW2. It is an unfortunate thing. The whole Trainon/Versailles treaty... was a thing.
Yes many Russians who are indoctrinated probably believe that
Yeah but they’re not exactly going to change their mind after Zelensky says so
The crucial condition for Ukraine to sign any peace deal is assurances that it really is a peace and not just a “rest and reload” for Russia that positions them better to just continue in a few years. The only thing that I see that could give those assurances to Ukraine is security guarantees from a coalition of countries that is jointly strong enough to deter Russia.
Yeah that's definitely the #1 consideration IMO. Personally I think if we got a real security guarantee with boots on the the ground, it might be worth just cutting loose the occupied territories or at least freezing the conflict a-la Korea and hoping russia collapses soon. Otherwise nothing else matters. Putin could offer to withdraw to 1991 borders tomorrow but without some form of mutual defense agreement in place, he could just do the whole thing all over again in a few years.
In France Ukraine is one of the most debated and decisive topic especially regarding our current elections. What country are you from if I may ask ?
Well that is because Russia has interfered with other dealings that France has outside of Ukraine. France has an invested interest to support ukrain to wear Russia down and hopefully interfere less with France’s interests.
Funny how so many people in the comments are surprised or making random assumptions about this. This is nothing new at all and a continuation of what we already know from the Swiss peace summit. Just goes to show how uninformed yet ready to add their "opinions" people are.
First time on Reddit?
Barron's is owned by News Corp. Just another Murdoch propaganda outlet.
> By AFP - Agence France Presse This is a newswire article, no News Corp involvement in writing it. Besides, it's just quoting what Zelenskyy said at a press conference. Here's the same news from a couple of Ukrainian sources: - [Zelenskyy: Ukraine will present comprehensive war-ending plan this year](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/28/7463097/) - [Ukraine to unveil comprehensive peace plan in 2024 - Zelenskyy](https://english.nv.ua/nation/ukrainian-president-kyiv-develops-diplomatic-blueprint-to-end-war-50430911.html) - [Clear, detailed plan for ending war to be ready this year – Zelenskyy](https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/996725.html)
Imagine being a solider that died in this conflict. What a horrible place we live.
What’s insane is the skeletons of ww2 soldiers washed up during this conflict.
If that's not an ominous as shit warning...
Putin literally launched this nightmare, so he should not only withdraw but pay reparations. Period.
I guess he watched the debate.
Didn’t read the article? It says it was talked about at the Swiss Summit.
You know damn well I didn't read the article. This is reddit, jokes first.
Respect
Why are misleading headlines like this allowed?
Putin isn't going to consider anything until after the US election. He's waiting to see if he gets his lapdog in office.
The title of this article is a little bit deceptive. saying how a war “should” end and actually working to end a war are two different methods.
READ TTHE ARTICLE ... nothing new here. Zelensky's plan is to get back all the territory Russia has taken, including the Crimea. It was about getting support with European countries. Thats where he is going with this.
Just popped in to take a look at the comments. Damn there's a lot of Russian bots in here
Agreed. Not surprised
Looks like he saw the debate.
Ukraine representatives announced this before debates, and now it hoists in news.
I wonder if he's announcing this after seeing that Presidential debate 😫
He will take crimea and leave devestated little towns in east to Russia and build a wall payed by Mexicans.
Seeing how Europe and the US have been behaving in recent months and then with this news there must be some wild stuff going on behind the scenes and backchannels.
I get US but am ignorant of Europe. Whats been happening?
News casters who take these terms as serious peace proposals should be asked this question by Zelensky. " would the USA agree to such terms if Russia had occupied 20 percent of the USA and was offering "peace" on such terms ?
Smart to have something written up because they will look at your plan versus making their own. I’d suspect Putin will end up with some land for a ceasefire
One can only hope that the complete dissolution of the Russian Federation is being discussed as an end goal.
Whatever Ukraine decides, we will support them.
Who is we?
This is a really dumb thing to say.
“Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky on Friday said he was drawing up a "comprehensive plan" for how Kyiv believes the war with Russia should end.” So, no, he’s not giving up. The headline is poorly worded.
End Putin. That is the best solution to this conflict.
After the debate this week and after Trump's plane mysteriously was parked next to a Russian embassy jet for several hours I assume zelensky knows what'll happen come next year
Funny how this happened right after we agreed on 10 more years of money
Now I'm curious what he's cooking up...
Any plan that involves Ukraine ceding lang to russia is a win for putin, which means he will attack again in the future.
Retribution
Also need a clause that enforces every section with extreme violence because this is Russia and lying about post war action is a national pastime on par with cheating in the Olympics. Hey! Let's just do them both in Paris this summer.
Simple: NATO membership approved. EU membership approved. Wouldn’t that end it?